Going Commando Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I guess by banning the purchasing of their ammo will help, but it will take a long time for people run out of ammo. This could take up to a generation to get the desired affect because banning the higher level weapons won't make them magically disappear. A ban and buyback would presumably have a reasonable time frame of implementation. The way you force compliance is to make the consequences of keeping an outlawed weapon severe. Much more severe than a DUI. If people want to ruin their lives just to keep their toy AR, then that's on them. Also the function of the militia in Colonial (and Antebellum) VA was more about law enforcement and deterring slaves from running away and rebelling than anything. We were only sporadically at war before we became an Imperial power in the 20th century. It's shameful to acknowledge this, but after Bacon's rebellion and after the Indian populations of Virginia were decimated by the 1680's, the true purpose of the militia became to distract poor whites and use them as the muscle to maintain the stability of a slave society. The commonwealth's upper classes gave the lower classes purpose and stake in stability and slavery by rewarding them economically for catching slaves and by giving them pride and a sense of identity via the supremacy of their race--by keeping an "other" under their boot. It was not a noble time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: A ban and buyback would presumably have a reasonable time frame of implementation. The way you force compliance is to make the consequences of keeping an outlawed weapon severe. Much more severe than a DUI. If people want to ruin their lives just to keep their toy AR, then that's on them. Also the function of the militia in Colonial (and Antebellum) VA was more about law enforcement and deterring slaves from running away and rebelling than anything. We were only sporadically at war before we became an Imperial power in the 20th century. It's shameful to acknowledge this, but after Bacon's rebellion and after the Indian populations of Virginia were decimated by the 1680's, the true purpose of the militia became to distract poor whites and use them as the muscle to maintain the stability of a slave society. The commonwealth's upper classes gave the lower classes purpose and stake in stability and slavery by rewarding them economically for catching slaves and by giving them pride and a sense of identity via the supremacy of their race--by keeping an "other" under their boot. It was not a noble time. Ya, but you got to go out to get a DUI, they could keep it in an attic or something and people would never know. I agree the punishment should be severe, just my experience with people that have weapons like that most will hide them (I live in Hampton Roads, same as you). I try not to roll my eyes when people talk about wanting to go back to "the good ol' days". Even at our peak economic and militaristic advantage over the rest of the world during the 50s we still had Jim Crow. I don't think the Redskins integrated until the early 60s. Throughout history no nation has had it "all together", and no nation probably ever will. I'm going to give the founding fathers benefit of the doubt on the intent of the militia thing, though, because how concerned they were with having a standing army at the time (expect George Washington behind closed doors I've seen mentioned in different places). Edited February 16, 2018 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 REALLY hard to take the Pro LIFE crowd and Pro LiFE politicians seriously when they are okay with the status quo that our children are getting slaughtered. Profits über alles, mein Brüder. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said: Can anyone with a military or law enforcement background shed some light on the psychological aspect of training to deal with a real life situation involving an active shooter? Is there any way a civilian gun class can prepare someone mentally to deal with these kind of situation? I don't have a background in either but given that the police are struggling with how to train their own to handle high stress situations (not my words but lots of stories on it) it wouldn't be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 6 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Sorry, but your post is crap. Canada allows the same guns, is as close to American culture as you’ll find anywhere on the planet, and yet they do not have the same problem with gun violence that we have. All because they approach gun ownership as a privilege not a right. I am more convinced than ever that this is the key difference, and our inevitable solition. I am pretty sure I said the same thing when I said guns are not going anywhere. Guess I should have said because of the rights the people have here. I wasn't talking about culture. It is the right as you pointed out changes the playing field. 6 hours ago, MartinC said: Its like guns only exist in America. The rest of the world has them as well - but nowhere else is having one viewed as a ‘right’ or symbol of ‘freedom’. Therefore people own far fewer of them - less guns seems to equal less killing with them. There ARE solutions to this problem. Just not ones people seem to want to accept. Yes. So true. You would think after Sandy Hook things would have changed a lot but the 'right' and the 'freedom' will always get in the way of protecting innocent people from getting killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, zskins said: Yes. So true. You would think after Sandy Hook things would have changed a lot but the 'right' and the 'freedom' will always get in the way of protecting innocent people from getting killed. Not really though. All rights and freedoms have restrictions and limits to them and various ways to be interpreted and enforced. The 2nd amendment should be no more untouchable then any other, perhaps less so since it specifically pertains to killing devices. Edited February 16, 2018 by visionary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: No no, they aren’t arguing for the right to slaughter children, they are arguing for the right to retain the ability to slaughter children. Whew! Thanks, I feel better now........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, zskins said: You would think after Sandy Hook things would have changed a lot but the 'right' and the 'freedom' will always get in the way of protecting innocent people from getting killed. Come on now,, it's money. Rights and freedom,, nice slogans, great for the sales pitch. But they don't care.. after Sandy Hook 90% of this country wanted to expand background checks, and they never even put it on the floor. The American people asked something of their reps almost unanimously, and their reps said not just no, but we aren't even going to consider this. Right then and there we saw what this fight is over, right then we saw who our representatives represent, and only a fool would think it's the "American people". The Constitutional 'right' is nothing more than a hard-sell tool. Keep the sales coming, keep the cash flowing, stir the fear and anger that drives it. School shootings are GREAT for business. There is nothing better to ring that cash register than a mass shooting except a democrat elected so all the 'they'r coming for your guns" fearmongering gets another workout. And, as always, it works like a charm, sales skyrocket despite it being proven a gigantic load of bull**** every single time. Once again, it's another gigantic con and the right have swallowed it hook, line and sinker. ~Bang 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 7 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of a bunch of high school students. A sad and shameful time to be an American. When I called my Congressman’s office yesterday I told the intern pretth much the same thing. I think it was “How much more innocent blood must be spilled in our schools to water the tree of liberty?” I gotta hand it to the kid, he let me have my say and never once tried to interrupt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 hours ago, visionary said: I mean okay let's scale the nonsense back a bit. Despite these mass shootings (and our cowardice to address them at all) crime and violent crime in the U.S. is at historic lows. It was much more dangerous to have your kids here in the early 90s than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Berggy9598 said: Is there any way a civilian gun class can prepare someone mentally to deal with these kind of situation? No, it’s all about desensitization. Everything we ever did in the Army was about dehumanizing the enemy, faceless targets, cadences about killing etc. and even then we have loads of soldiers suffering from PTSD because of the stress that killing and acting in a warzone places on the mond. The ONLY people who keep talking about this are the John Wayne wannabees. Arming teachers to kill a student THEY KNOW is extremely problematic. Placing armed vets in schools is extremely problematic, soldiers are NOT police. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 7 hours ago, twa said: I agree removing all guns would make us safer...and result in alt means such as killing by knives, bombs and poison or such. Go try buying bomb making materials and see what happens. Go buy poison and see what happens. We regulate so much of the things you say will happen more heavily than the guns who’s destructive potential is so much greater. No one but gun lusters believes this red herring you’ve thrown out. Russia currently has a rash of copy cat school stabbings...body count....ZERO. And if you don’t understand the fundamental difference between the lethality of an AR and a knife then honestly you have no business voting. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, Bang said: Come on now,, it's money. Rights and freedom,, nice slogans, great for the sales pitch. But they don't care.. after Sandy Hook 90% of this country wanted to expand background checks, and they never even put it on the floor. The American people asked something of their reps almost unanimously, and their reps said not just no, but we aren't even going to consider this. Right then and there we saw what this fight is over, right then we saw who our representatives represent, and only a fool would think it's the "American people". The Constitutional 'right' is nothing more than a hard-sell tool. Keep the sales coming, keep the cash flowing, stir the fear and anger that drives it. School shootings are GREAT for business. There is nothing better to ring that cash register than a mass shooting except a democrat elected so all the 'they'r coming for your guns" fearmongering gets another workout. And, as always, it works like a charm, sales skyrocket despite it being proven a gigantic load of bull**** every single time. Once again, it's another gigantic con and the right have swallowed it hook, line and sinker. ~Bang Oh I know it is all about money and it is very sad indeed and the right thing is only used as a scapegoat. This happened at my daughter's school yesterday. http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/clarksburg-high-school-student-arrested-for-having-gun-at-school She was scared to go to school today. As a parent it is very tough to even think what can happen to your child or any child for that matter. I wonder if this has had happened to every lawmaker would they have changed their mind/stance on gun control? What if Trump's youngest child was in that school would he had sung a different tune than just saying these people only need mental help? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Color me cynical, but we know, KNOW!, what actually, pragmatically works and what absolutely doesn't, and in fact makes the situation worse. People arguing fine print and legalese and posing as constitutional scholars is bull****. This falls into the "we know it doesn't help" category. The 2nd Amendment crowd raising their voices about RIGHTS is to me exactly the same as your kids dressing up as pirates for Halloween, might be cute but no one really expects that they are going to board n loot anything. In their heart of hearts they know it too, but they like feeling "strong" and "important" and "tough" talking about guns, because in my opinion it helps them mask their other insecurities and support their denial of objective facts. Facts, remember them, "This is an apple"! Gun junkies can scream "BANANA BANANA BANANA!" all they want, we know an apple when we see it. Those were not dead bananas they were wheeling out of that school. No, this is about the almighty dollah, just like Bang noted above. Always has been, and like so many other instances the people getting took refuse to admit it, they would rather double down on their bull**** than just man up and say "I'm sorry, I was wrong" because of whatever weird psychological kink they get about being embarrassed or looking foolish or those scary dreams about walking down the hall in school with no pants or whatever else drives them. The powers that be know this, feed this, stoke that fire and warm their hands over it because.....................(wait for it)...THEY ARE MAKING HUGE PROFITS OFF IT! That's it, nothing complicated, wandering off into the weeds of Founding Father interpretation is just another ruse, this is about money. You want to reduce crime? Provide decent jobs for people. That in itself is the biggest element. Poof, they don't want your subsidies, they don't want your food stamps, they'll do that themselves once they have the basic resources to do it. But hell no, that cuts into the bottom line Stop the fearmongering and pandering to insanity But hell no, THAT cuts into another bottom line Well what about........ Nope, profit margin, responsibility to stockholders and all that Dead children! We are talking about dead children, right here, right down the street Oh I know, tut tut, terrible isn't it. thoughts and prayers yanno, Pam Bondi will cover the funerals with taxpayers dollars and take the credit for it Well we're going to get people organized and replace you with someone that will listen! Hahahahaha, we anticipated that, g'head, try it, we're holding enough hostages to stifle that approach. Listen, you'll hear them.......... Guns!More guns! Second Amendment!Personal freedom! FREEDOM! Armed intruders!Homesafety! DrugdealersMexicanrapistsblackonblackcrimebluelivesmatterourlilywhitedaughtersdon'tyoudareIwon'ttakeityoucan'tmakemerushseandonaldMAGA!!! Oh, there they are now............. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, zskins said: Oh I know it is all about money and it is very sad indeed and the right thing is only used as a scapegoat. This happened at my daughter's school yesterday. http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/clarksburg-high-school-student-arrested-for-having-gun-at-school She was scared to go to school today. As a parent it is very tough to even think what can happen to your child or any child for that matter. I wonder if this has had happened to every lawmaker would they have changed their mind/stance on gun control? What if Trump's youngest child was in that school would he had sung a different tune than just saying these people only need mental help? I hear you, Z. We live in a ****ed up period in our history. My own son graduated about 5 years ago, and while that nagging worry existed, it never got magnified like it is for you today. My sympathies, truly. I have no idea how to process that. I have a feeling i'd stammer through the usual attempts to calm her down and send her to school, but i don't think i'd believe a word of what I'd have to say. I think the answer to your question is obvious. But at the same time, someone shot up their GOP baseball practice and damn near killed Steve Scalise.. and it didn't change a single attitude as far as I can tell. So many things feel like a cult with that group. Very unsettling. ~Bang 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bang said: But at the same time, someone shot up their GOP baseball practice and damn near killed Steve Scalise.. and it didn't change a single attitude as far as I can tell. ~Bang That just proves that we need army veterans armed and guarding our parks....and Walmart...and oh wait a sec this is gonna get out of hand quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Elessar78 said: REALLY hard to take the Pro LIFE crowd and Pro LiFE politicians seriously when they are okay with the status quo that our children are getting slaughtered. Profits über alles, mein Brüder. Hard to take the Pro Choice crowd seriously as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, twa said: Hard to take the Pro Choice crowd seriously as well. Get some coffee in you. ~Bang 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of a bunch of high school students. A sad and shameful time to be an American. ...and elementary school students. It’s a really thirsty tree. 7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Also the function of the militia in Colonial (and Antebellum) VA was more about law enforcement and deterring slaves from running away and rebelling than anything. We were only sporadically at war before we became an Imperial power in the 20th century. It's shameful to acknowledge this, but after Bacon's rebellion and after the Indian populations of Virginia were decimated by the 1680's, the true purpose of the militia became to distract poor whites and use them as the muscle to maintain the stability of a slave society. The commonwealth's upper classes gave the lower classes purpose and stake in stability and slavery by rewarding them economically for catching slaves and by giving them pride and a sense of identity via the supremacy of their race--by keeping an "other" under their boot. It was not a noble time. It seems the function of LE hasn’t changed much then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, Bang said: Get some coffee in you. ~Bang Hey give him a break, .300 gets you into the Hall of Fame. Granted @twais still grinding it out in Single A, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Yeah, so Grassley can **** off and burn in hell. Which given his age shouldn't be that far off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: Hey give him a break, .300 gets you into the Hall of Fame. Granted @twais still grinding it out in Single A, but still. This group looks more like sandlot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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