visionary Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Ok, that’s fair. I wasn’t sure what you had in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, visionary said: Ok, that’s fair. I wasn’t sure what you had in mind. Yeah, it is not that those feelings are my personal feelings overall, I do share some of the sentiment on the timidness of Democrats to actually fight for their economic principles at times. I think "neoliberalism" is overstated in some instances, but others it is justified. It is more about being status quo, don't "rock the boat" style. The Reagan revolution really mucked things up to where the Democratic party has not been the same since on economics. It seems like until very recently not very many elected Dems were willing to mess with the pandora's box that Trickle down opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Well I think with Buttigueg, he’s finding his lane in the race. You have Warren and Sanders vs Biden and Buttigueg. The center democrats have a larger broad appeal but the progressives motivate their base more. One has a loud voice the other has larger people. Thats what this race is coming down to. Center vs progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, Springfield said: Well I think with Buttigueg, he’s finding his lane in the race. You have Warren and Sanders vs Biden and Buttigueg. The center democrats have a larger broad appeal but the progressives motivate their base more. One has a loud voice the other has larger people. Thats what this race is coming down to. Center vs progressive. It's not s much Buttigueg being a centrist. It is more that he seemed to morph his policy on a dime, basically poll testing his "values" That is what I am more concerned about. If you are a centrist genuinely? Fine. I can accept it, I might not be overjoyed about Biden for example, but I feel like I know exactly what I am getting from his nomination itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, NoCalMike said: It's not s much Buttigueg being a centrist. It is more that he seemed to morph his policy on a dime, basically poll testing his "values" That is what I am more concerned about. If you are a centrist genuinely? Fine. I can accept it, I might not be overjoyed about Biden for example, but I feel like I know exactly what I am getting from his nomination itself. Can you provide examples of what he’s walked back on? I might not be following closely enough, so I’m genuinely intrigued. I know people say that he’s getting money so he’s suddenly changed, but I haven’t really seen what has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Springfield said: Can you provide examples of what he’s walked back on? I might not be following closely enough, so I’m genuinely intrigued. I know people say that he’s getting money so he’s suddenly changed, but I haven’t really seen what has changed. His shift on Medicare for All is the biggest example. Apologies for not being more detailed, still at work. I also think a lot of people find his "both sidesism" explanation for why "Washington doesn't work" rings a bit shallow and simplistic as if he is just saying things certain people want to hear to to hit a marker about what phrases poll well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: His shift on Medicare for All is the biggest example. Apologies for not being more detailed, still at work. I also think a lot of people find his "both sidesism" explanation for why "Washington doesn't work" rings a bit shallow and simplistic as if he is just saying things certain people want to hear to to hit a marker about what phrases poll well. As far as I knew, his whole thing was M4A who want it. Cause let’s face it, M4A ain’t passing this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 A lot of people on the left really seem to hate Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Boo hoo, Castro couldn’t make it. Dude ****ed up when he stepped to uncle Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, visionary said: There’s something so narcissistic about him, that I think if he got the nomination I am almost surely not going to support him or vote for him. Bad policies, bad personality and a legion of devoted followers detached from reality and driven by passion rather than rationality. If it’s Bernie v Trump, my vote is to let it all burn to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 59 minutes ago, No Excuses said: There’s something so narcissistic about him, that I think if he got the nomination I am almost surely not going to support him or vote for him. Bad policies, bad personality and a legion of devoted followers detached from reality and driven by passion rather than rationality. If it’s Bernie v Trump, my vote is to let it all burn to the ground. He's far better than Trump. That's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Bernie gets caucuses not enough actual votes, just like last time. I only hope he donates all that campaign cash to our nominee and other candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneMessedUp Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said: Bernie gets caucuses not enough actual votes, just like last time. I only hope he donates all that campaign cash to our nominee and other candidates. He'll donate it all to Justice "Dems" who flip exactly 0 seats again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 this could also go in the "what up with the gop" thread---a tom nichols piece https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/02/2020-progressive-democrats-need-truce-moderates-beat-trump-column/2783690001/ Quote If President Donald Trump loses in 2020 (and it is by no means certain that he will), his defeat will come at the hands of a coalition led by the Democratic Party that will be composed, in the main, of energized and angry Democrats. In swing states, they could get the support of a small but important cadre of independents and surburbanites who tended to vote Republican in the past, and an even smaller handful of disaffected former Republicans for whom tax cuts and judges were not enough to keep them in their party. <edit> I feel this hope keenly myself. I am a former Republican who has already crossed over and publicly vowed to support the Democratic nominee in 2020, no matter who it is, in order to help end this nightmare. I have shared a political foxhole with people I once criticized, and I can never be as partisan as I once was. <edit> Whether we can turn the defeat of Trump into a real American reconciliation, however, is at this point completely in the hands of the Democratic Party. What happens after November depends on who the Democrats nominate and how the victor governs. Democrats will complain that this is horribly unfair. Republicans got us into this mess, they will object, and it is not up to Democrats to get us out of it. They are not wrong. But life is not fair, and dealing with reality is always better than wishing. And here’s the most important reality: The Republican Party has been mainlining the pure, uncut narcotic of irrational rage for years now, and Republicans are not going to quit cold turkey. There will be no moment of clarity. Most of them are older people who will take this addiction to their graves. Realism before next fall should also lead to some stock-taking among Democrats. They have long pursued a strategy of narrow division along identity lines that produced big wins for some Democrats in reliably blue states while leaving 1,000 offices across the land in the hands of Republicans and keeping the Electoral College competitive for the GOP. As Columbia professor (and avowed liberal) Mark Lilla once wrote, Democrats became obsessed with the national media and the presidency rather than “the daily task of winning over people at the local level.” Incredibly, some Democrats are so convinced that a Progressive Promised Land is now in sight that they have even taken to criticizing the legacy of President Barack Obama, the man who saved them from the wilderness. For all their talk of how hard it will be to beat Trump, they seem convinced that 2020 will vindicate the ideologues of 1968, avenge the losses of the 1980s and repudiate the GOP advances of the 2000s. None of that is going to happen. Some Democrats will argue that this is just a plea to pick a pseudo-Republican. This is childish. I accept that elections have consequences, and I know what I will get with any Democratic president. Even as a Republican, I never argued for incessant warfare against Obama, whom I supported on any number of issues ranging from missile defense to Cuba. I opposed Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell denying the president’s constitutional right to a Supreme Court nomination in his last year in office. But I am not the voter Democrats need. They already have me. Not only am I on board for 2020, but I have also decided never to vote for anyone who enabled Trump in any way, so I could be walking alongside the Democrats a lot longer, into 2024 and for many years beyond (God willing). more at link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Mooka Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 11:20 AM, NoCalMike said: How that relates to Mayor Pete? Well you have a guy who jumped into the race as a progressive (or at least seemingly so) that started "morphing" his positions the minute he got a whiff of out-performing what the likely expectations are. Once those dollars started rolling in, he folded. It worked though, people now refer to Pete as a centrist candidate when he has the same progressive platform as Warren/Sanders. Tons of new social programs paid for with a combination of new wealth taxes and some form of a Wall St speculation/transaction tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 2020 is so over. On to 2024 baby! Politico: Who’s Winning 2024? For the Dems: If the Dem candidate wins in 2020. something tells me it will be just a one term presidency. They are going to have a confront a recession early in their term. I also, think that if the Dems have one or both houses of congress; they will lose it in 2022. One last gasp from the white GOP base will push them out. If the Dem candidate loses as I think they will; I think you see the left taking full control. It will start with the 2022 midterms and they have full control of the Democratic party in 2024. AOC who is barely eligible in 2024 will be on the ticket; though maybe just as the veep candidate. For the GOP: 2024 revolves around Trump, whether he wins or loses this year. If Trump wins reelection, he will be able to dictate his successor. If he wants Don Jr. to be the nominee; he will direct his voters to vote for Don Jr. They will vote for Don Jr. and Don Jr. will cruise to the nomination, the same way his father did. If Trump loses this year, you figure the GOP will attempt to move on from him. It won't be successful. I could see Trump running again and he would get the nomination again. If Trump didn't run, he still will be able to dictate where his voters go. They will support who Donald feels can carry the Trump vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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