Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[ggarriso]

31 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

 

This is a very good point.  Reporters new to the market do not have a built up agenda, yet they report the same things the DC vets are reporting.  Often you hear them say how shocked they were at what they saw.  When it happens over and over again from many different people what does that tell you? 

 

Case in point - WaPo (ugh) Jerry Brewer - at first his reporting was so refreshing for this market, he was focused on football,  but it seems that now he's headed down the DC toilet.  This team is a black hole of despair to anyone associated with it.

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

 

Case in point - WaPo (ugh) Jerry Brewer - at first his reporting was so refreshing for this market, he was focused on football,  but it seems that now he's headed down the DC toilet.  This team is a black hole of despair to anyone associated with it.

 

He  was one of the guys I was thinking about.  I heard him on the radio about a year after he arrived from Seattle. He said he was shocked at what he saw, heard it was bad but had no idea just how bad.

 

How does this not register with the Snyder apologists here?  Just weird. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Like... when this type of stuff occurs at some point you have to reflect and say "what kind of **** am I inviting into my life by my actions"? 

 

I don't know. Just can't stand the bitterness and anger so many have left this organization with. It's not a normal number that's expected, if there is even one. 

 

I was tracking comments on twitter about Zach Brown -- pretty wild checking out Raider fans, some of whom were saying he choose that dysfunctional franchise, what gives!  Apparently, easier to deal for them losing him to the Dolphins.

 

Whether justified or not, its quite the come down to be made fun of by Raider fans of all teams as being the dysfunctional team.  I was watching First Take last week on a segment about Kirk, and one of the nonregulars were saying, Kirk get out of that dysfunctional place while you have a chance.

 

Forgetting whether its justified or not justified, I am not loving the media perception being back that this is clown show and this isn't a cool team to like, etc.  We had a nice run for awhile of those days are gone. 

 

Having young kids and a wife who is a Giants fan -- I do put some energy on getting my kids into the Redskins -- and yeah naturally they didn't grow up during the glory years.  They've watched the RG3 era and Shanny flame out and in an ugly way.  They saw me hyped about Scot, now he's gone.  They dig Kirk -- hopefully he's not gone next.  But yeah turning on the TV and seeing the Redskins linked with the word dysfunction a lot -- isn't a lot of fun for me.  

 

Hopefully, Bruce hires the next Scot type personnel guy and gets a LTD done with Kirk otherwise I'd say especially looking at the Redskins era that my kids grew up with -- I'd label it weird with some wild up and downs.  You keep Kirk it brings a needed level of stability and consistent success IMO.  You bring in a new GM with pedigree then it would be easier to sell the idea that what happened was just a quirky thing that was endemic to Scot.

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Edit: Space

 

Hopefully, Bruce hires the next Scot type personnel guy and gets a LTD done with Kirk otherwise I'd say especially looking at the Redskins era that my kids grew up with -- I'd label it weird with some wild up and downs.  You keep Kirk it brings a needed level of stability and consistent success IMO.  You bring in a new GM with pedigree then it would be easier to sell the idea that what happened was just a quirky thing that was endemic to Scot.

 

I agree with everything else, but I wanted to hit on this last area, specifically GM. How are we going to be able to bring in a new GM with a pedigree? I'm not sure we have any chance to do so. Maybe a guy that has been a up and coming scout, but I don't see how we could get a established guy, or a top flight guy in here. Getting back to the meat of your post, the "disfunction" of the FO is the reason why we would not be able to. And then the questions on whether he has full control over personnel and be able to sign guys he wants, without going through Bruce to get the money, which appeared to be the case. Scot brought a lot to the Redskins, not just his talent evaluations. He brought an aura of professionalism, and when you consider that he had been fired from 2 places because of his drinking, THAT should tell you a lot. People just don't take the redskins seriously as an organization. And I don't really see any reason they should. And I don't really know how to fix it anymore.

[TheGreek1973]

I know people are "down" with the events that took place with our GM, but honestly this is a crazy business.  The fact of the matter is the Redskins have been semi competitive the past two years and we are not in CAP hell like the old days.  I just want to see KC signed to a LTD and with Gruden here for the next 4 years I think we will continue to be competitive.  The sky is not falling no matter what the league says.

[hailer21]

13 hours ago, Skinz_4_life said:

Interested in how all the chicken little Allen and Snyder haters feel about another solid free agent pick up?? 

 

Zach Brown isn't going to change what's wrong with this organization. How do you feel about Dan Snyder's tenure or the prospect of the organization ever returning to sustained success or avoiding a rinse n' repeat pattern of being a national side show?

 

 

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

I know people are "down" with the events that took place with our GM, but honestly this is a crazy business.  The fact of the matter is the Redskins have been semi competitive the past two years and we are not in CAP hell like the old days.  I just want to see KC signed to a LTD and with Gruden here for the next 4 years I think we will continue to be competitive.  The sky is not falling no matter what the league says.

 

I think you are missing the point. We may, or may not be competitive for a couple more years. But it's not going to last. And the reason it will not last is the dysfunction of the FO. We won't be able to get top notch talent in any area in the FO due to it. You're looking at this with blinders on for a couple years, and it might work out for that length of time. But it's going to eventually fail, and it will likely be sooner that later. And when it does, there will be no one that is really qualified to fix it that will come.

[hailer21]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

I think you are missing the point. We may, or may not be competitive for a couple more years. But it's not going to last. And the reason it will not last is the dysfunction of the FO. We won't be able to get top notch talent in any area in the FO due to it. You're looking at this with blinders on for a couple years, and it might work out for that length of time. But it's going to eventually fail, and it will likely be sooner that later. And when it does, there will be no one that is really qualified to fix it that will come.

 

This is it - I just don't think there are any string of good breaks that will break through the dysfunction of the Snyder show. After so many "down" moments over so many years, it makes sense to see a number of folks that are down and out. 

[Morneblade]

29 minutes ago, hailer21 said:

 

This is it - I just don't think there are any string of good breaks that will break through the dysfunction of the Snyder show. After so many "down" moments over so many years, it makes sense to see a number of folks that are down and out. 

 

And I don't want to be over-critical of people. I mean, it's HARD to sit there and say that, using myself as a for instance, a team that I have loved for 40+ years is ****ed. I still get excited about something like a Zach Brown signing, for instance. But, I also look long term, about how the hell are we EVER going to be a organization that functions smoothly? One that is well run, makes good decisions more often that not, has a good relationship with the communitee they are located (including reporters) and, overall, seems to be competent.

 

And we are so far away from that, in my eyes, it will literally take Snyder either selling the team, or him dying and someone else taking ownership. He's had almost 20 years invested, and still can't seem to get the little things right. And it's not from lack of trying, it's just that he doesn't have any idea on HOW to do it. And it sucks. I grabbed on to the team in the 70's and the GREAT run we had in the 80's.

 

And it's hopeless now.

[RedBeast]

@Morneblade We need Obi-Wan, he is our only hope. Like you I hope for the best, and want the best for our team and this organization, but have also become quite jaded. This last incident pushed me back deep into Missouri "Show Me."

 

Ohhh how I miss the "hope springs eternal" days of our youth. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I agree with everything else, but I wanted to hit on this last area, specifically GM. How are we going to be able to bring in a new GM with a pedigree? I'm not sure we have any chance to do so. Maybe a guy that has been a up and coming scout, but I don't see how we could get a established guy, or a top flight guy in here. Getting back to the meat of your post, the "disfunction" of the FO is the reason why we would not be able to. And then the questions on whether he has full control over personnel and be able to sign guys he wants, without going through Bruce to get the money, which appeared to be the case. Scot brought a lot to the Redskins, not just his talent evaluations. He brought an aura of professionalism, and when you consider that he had been fired from 2 places because of his drinking, THAT should tell you a lot. People just don't take the redskins seriously as an organization. And I don't really see any reason they should. And I don't really know how to fix it anymore.

 

I agree with the spirit of your point.  Keim and Laconfora both talked about this some. Laconfora's take was the A grade guys would likely balk unless the Redskins would pay more then what they are currently offering and they have assurances they have authority to make the ultimate calls on roster -- but there is some doubt that either of those things will happen.  Laconfora though did think that some of the next level guys, B level could be interested at that price and power structure.

 

Keim was a bit more upbeat -- suggesting that there are so many of these jobs available and he's talked to some people who actually would be interested though he didn't say who.  Both Keim and Laconfora give the vibe that if they really wanted to hire a top flight guy they could do it.  So I am not giving them an out that they just couldn't pull it off so they had to go internally.

 

On another note and this isn't directed at you.  I am as into the Zach Brown signing as much as anyone but I think some miss the point about dysfunction.   It's nice that Bruce is willing to open the wallet once in awhile -- IMO he's been too stingy so the signing is a pleasant surprise.  But Bruce's approach to FA I don't think has anything to do with anyone's characterization of dysfunction.  

 

IMO its about an odd power structure, power struggles, negativity, bad PR -- and the latest savior kicked out the door.   And like Pavolv dogs -- the team is about to sell the latest savior until that blows up.   That's why all these Doug Williams rumors annoy me.   Hey we got our Super Bowl hero now running the show and all that hire symbolizes, etc.   It's one of a few reasons why I don't want him to be the hire -- I want them off of the PR snow job.  And I get they can still hire an outside person and it still goes wrong -- but I'd like them to at least try.

 

The dysfunction IMO isn't really even about Bruce-Scot.  I notice for example some (not all) of the ones defending Bruce and what's happened are people who don't like Scot and are enjoying kicking him out the door.  But IMO this has nothing to do with Scot per se.  This has to do with everything:  Marty, Vinny, Shanny, Zorn, Nolan, Norv on and on.    It's about having new version of this almost like clock work every 2-3 years.

 

 

[NewCliche21]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with the spirit of your point.  Keim and Laconfora both talked about this some. Laconfora's take was the A grade guys would likely balk unless the Redskins would pay more then what they are currently offering and they have assurances they have authority to make the ultimate calls on roster -- but there is some doubt that either of those things will happen.  Laconfora though did think that some of the next level guys, B level could be interested at that price and power structure.

 

Keim was a bit more upbeat -- suggesting that there are so many of these jobs available and he's talked to some people who actually would be interested though he didn't say who.  Both Keim and Laconfora give the vibe that if they really wanted to hire a top flight guy they could do it.  So I am not giving them an out that they just couldn't pull it off so they had to go internally.

 

 

 

 

And my thought with that is if they were going to do it, then they already would have done it.  It's extremely disappointing and instills no confidence that a change will be made.

 

It's like when I work with people who deny a substance abuse problem:

 

Client:  I could quit whenever I want

Me:  So why haven't you quit?  Why have we had this conversation multiple times?

Client:  . . .

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

And my thought with that is if they were going to do it, then they already would have done it.  It's extremely disappointing and instills no confidence that a change will be made.

 

 

 

Laconfora said that these guys in play are in the middle of draft prep for their employers (these aren't guys out of work) and it was either him or someone else who explained you don't leave your job right before the draft -- its a conflict of interest of sorts to know another team's draft board and to feed off of work of another team's front office.  It's part of the reason why Bruce letting Scot go to be hired by anyone right before the draft is unusual and strange.  If I'd believe Chris Russell's version of this story is they wanted to hang on to Scot until after the draft but they just couldn't take Scot's wife tweet with the rings, they went ballistic at that point.

[JPG]

Ewing getting hired as head coach of the Hoyas reminds me of this Doug Williams situation. Just bringing in an old hero to patch up a disgruntle fan base.

[NewCliche21]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Laconfora said that these guys in play are in the middle of draft prep for their employers (these aren't guys out of work) and it was either him or someone else who explained you don't leave your job right before the draft -- its a conflict of interest of sorts to know another team's draft board and to feed off of work of another team's front office.  It's part of the reason why Bruce letting Scot go to be hired by anyone right before the draft is unusual and strange.  If I'd believe Chris Russell's version of this story is they wanted to hang on to Scot until after the draft but they just couldn't take Scot's wife tweet with the rings, they went ballistic at that point.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear in what I said.  I didn't mean April 4, 2017, I meant just in the entirety of the 18 years Snyder's been here and the five that we've had Bruce.  If they were going to make the call to do what's needed to get an A-level guy (why the hell would you as a business owner want a B-level guy if you're gonna spend that much money?), then they would've done it by this point in their careers with the Redskins.

 

When a wife's tweet with rings leads to a decision like what they made, it only reinforces the idea that it just isn't gonna happen with the people we have at the top.

[Reaper Skins]

This whole "Night Out With The Scouts" promotion sure feels like a way to get Doug Williams out in the public eye and get the fanbase used to seeing him in the role of GM and decision maker doesn't it?

 

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

This whole "Night Out With The Scouts" promotion sure feels like a way to get Doug Williams out in the public eye and get the fanbase used to seeing him in the role of GM and decision maker doesn't it?

 

 

 

Absolutely.This is such a poorly veilded attempt to make Williams look like a real scout, and then therefore qualified to handle the GM position, it's pathetic.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, NewCliche21 said:

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear in what I said.  I didn't mean April 4, 2017, I meant just in the entirety of the 18 years Snyder's been here and the five that we've had Bruce.  If they were going to make the call to do what's needed to get an A-level guy (why the hell would you as a business owner want a B-level guy if you're gonna spend that much money?), then they would've done it by this point in their careers with the Redskins.

 

When a wife's tweet with rings leads to a decision like what they made, it only reinforces the idea that it just isn't gonna happen with the people we have at the top.

 

I agree that throughout Danny's tenure its oddly not been a big deal to him.

 

There are two really basic things most would agree a top flight NFL team needs:  A.  A strong GM who can price some really good groceries. B.  The head coach who can make the dinner.  Danny never seems to care at all about A.  And then wonders what's wrong?  It's basic and 101.    Let good people pick the ingredients and let good people cook the dinner -- and stay out of the way.  Somehow its been an elusive task for this ownership.

 

Among the sea of stories, the one about why Gregg Williams wasn't hired as HC grips me the most.   The idea that Vinny and Danny watched the playoffs with Gregg and they didn't feel that personal-chummy chemistry with him -- so he wasn't the guy for the job.  It seems that Danny and or his top minions want people who are pals and or good soldiers who are willing to play along with them.  

 

If I recall Gregg later said something to the degree that he was too much of a strong personality in particular for Vinny, he knew what he wanted and what he didn't want.  Going through the Scot stories it looks like there is some of that with him -- he's a strong personality versus a go along to get along kind of person.  When I was watching practice the day I met him I was within earshot of him talking to an alumni player, he told that player he and Jay get into really heated arguments about things at times but they get over it and get along very well.  Maybe Bruce and or Danny don't like that.  Jay strikes me as a secure guy who can deal with strong personalities. 

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Absolutely.This is such a poorly veilded attempt to make Williams look like a real scout, and then therefore qualified to handle the GM position, it's pathetic.

 

Yeah the sad thing to me about if Doug is the guy is it will likely ultimately backfire and I'd hate to see Doug's rep tarnished. I think they'd have a hard time selling it as he was the most qualified person for the job or he's just the front-person for Bruce.  So if they went in that direction it better go well because if it doesn't its actually set up for another ugly ending.

 

I do think this is one the local beat guys are misreading as for fan sentiment -- they think fans would buy into this hook line and sinker out of nostalgia.

 

Ironically just tuned into Grant and Danny who said a fan labeled a Doug Williams Gm hire as  "selling history and not the future."

 

 

Just caught a new Steinberg column

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/04/04/theyve-had-redskins-tickets-for-more-than-50-years-theyve-finally-had-enough/?utm_term=.8d0755f103f4

But I also know a franchise has only so many 80-year bonds to break. I’ve been writing about fan dissatisfaction off and on for a decade — through firings, losses, disappointments, injuries. And I can’t remember ever hearing from so many generational Washingtonians who thought this latest tumble into the muck was one level of filth too far; who thought that mere eye-rolling was no longer sufficient. To them, the one-two punch of a GM’s firing and a franchise quarterback’s uncertainty called for something more.

These fans feel let down by their favorite team — and not because it’s losing too many games, because it isn’t, really. Coach Jay Gruden wondered recently why there is so much doom and gloom in the air, and you can understand his confusion. The past two years were modest successes, at least by recent standards. Kirk Cousins hasn’t gone anywhere yet. The front office has made some potentially promising defensive acquisitions. Why so sad?

So put the patients on the couch for a few minutes, and listen to their exasperation. They were promised stability and professionalism two years ago, a new way of doing business. They enjoyed two modestly successful seasons, which they viewed through that lens. Now they’re being told that nothing was the way it seemed, that the new way of doing business is the old way again, and oh by the way, that the beloved GM was actually a disaster who never had the autonomy he was promised. Don’t forget to drop your renewals in the mail.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Doug is a legend here and for good reasons, none of them being his ability to scout talent and put a roster together.  In the event he is named "GM", I'd hate to be a member of our local media responsible for having to write about it.  From what I know, Doug Williams is a good man, a first black QB to win the Super Bowl type of good man.  I can't imagine they will want to take a deep dive into what Doug doesn't bring to the table for such a position and how bad it stinks of a buddy-buddy hire.  It's one thing to crap on Bruce, a guy that has done nothing and gives them nothing...it's another to take a dump on a guy that won one of 3 Super Bowls for this franchise.

[William Barbour]

DW going to be our next GM. I would bet the house. 

 

Also, Jessica McCloughan wouldn't be so loud on twitter this offseason if the Redskins were having a bad one. 

 

Impressed with #Redskins front office this year

[William Barbour]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Absolutely.This is such a poorly veilded attempt to make Williams look like a real scout, and then therefore qualified to handle the GM position, it's pathetic.

 

Thats a little harsh. Whybis DW not qualified to be a GM? Hes already brought in a handful of players on the Redskins right now. He knows football, He's played it, He's good with Jay and Bruce. 

 

Seems like a good fit to me. Hes already been working with some of the other scouting team. 

 

To say he cant handle the position is a strong opinion, but not one I agree with. Since the Redskins front office infrastructure is setup non traditional and more modern anyhow.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

 

Thats a little harsh. Whybis DW not qualified to be a GM? Hes already brought in a handful of players on the Redskins right now. He knows football, He's played it, He's good with Jay and Bruce. 

 

Seems like a good fit to me. Hes already been working with some of the other scouting team. 

 

To say he cant handle the position is a strong opinion, but not one I agree with. Since the Redskins front office infrastructure is setup non traditional and more modern anyhow.

 

"Non traditional and more modern" That's the nicest description of our front office I've ever heard.

 

"He's already been working with some of the other scouting team" *golf claps*

 

Phew.

[William Barbour]

40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

"Non traditional and more modern" That's the nicest description of our front office I've ever heard.

 

"He's already been working with some of the other scouting team" *golf claps*

 

Phew.

Redskins are not the only front office that has molded into the Team President mold. 

 

Do you have input on why you think DW wouldn't be qualified? Or you just going to to passive aggressively respond? Contribute to the conversation a little and you would be surprised how much you can learn. 

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, William Barbour said:

 

Thats a little harsh. Whybis DW not qualified to be a GM? Hes already brought in a handful of players on the Redskins right now. He knows football, He's played it, He's good with Jay and Bruce. 

 

Seems like a good fit to me. Hes already been working with some of the other scouting team. 

 

To say he cant handle the position is a strong opinion, but not one I agree with. Since the Redskins front office infrastructure is setup non traditional and more modern anyhow.

 

No, it isn't. I think he's much more qualified to do Bruce Allen's job, than be a lead scout and evaluate talent on the team. He has very little scouting experience, and has not shown any ability to actually be GOOD at it. He's not a guy that is a talent evaluator.

 

And what do you mean by "non-traditional" and "more modern"? Outside of being a "Cluster****" and "lacking of talent and professionalism"?