Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Look you are free to believe anything you would like. But the spin on this board is unlike anywhere on Earth outside of Redskins Park. I still can not believe we argued about the dead grandmother story, still amazed that some of you bought that and attacked others who had a bit more common sense. 

 

In the post you quoted I was simply pointing out that the opinion that the organization held little blame is simply not the shared opinion of most Redskins fans and it's sure not the opinion nationally.  Have you even looked at the comments section in these Post articles?  They are blasting the organization, nearly every one of them. 

 

Given their track record I have no idea how Snyder and/or Allen should not be held accountable for this total display of dysfunction.   At the very least consider the fact that they looked you in the eye and lied about SM having full control of personal decisions.  That is enough for me to be very upset that I was duped.  Again. 

 

Yes, I have seen the comments in the Post. But I give that about as much credibility as I do the comments section in any open forum where people can be invisible and unaccountable for anything they say - not very much. So there are a bunch of angry people in the Post comments section. I could care less. It's why I stopped going there. You can't have a decent discussion about the team. It's all whining and ****ing. It's why I originally came in here. Despite the mods very hard work. it's becoming hard to do that in here.

 

And you need to get off the superiority bull**** about common sense. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your inability to respect others rights to disagree. To that end, all anyone was saying that we needed to wait until the full truth was known. That not all people mourn the same way. No one said - we absolutely believe exactly what they said.

 

I clear need to step away for a while. So by all means, continue to whine and complain and accuse others of ignorance and lacking common sense, basically taking your anger at the team out on anybody that disagrees.

Enjoy!

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Yes, I have seen the comments in the Post. But I give that about as much credibility as I do the comments section in any open forum where people can be invisible and unaccountable for anything they say - not very much. So there are a bunch of angry people in the Post comments section. I could care less. It's why I stopped going there. You can't have a decent discussion about the team. It's all whining and ****ing. It's why I originally came in here. Despite the mods very hard work. it's becoming hard to do that in here.

 

And you need to get off the superiority bull**** about common sense. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your inability to respect others rights to disagree. To that end, all anyone was saying that we needed to wait until the full truth was known. That not all people mourn the same way. No one said - we absolutely believe exactly what they said.

 

I clear need to step away for a while. So by all means, continue to whine and complain and accuse others of ignorance and lacking common sense, basically taking your anger at the team out on anybody that disagrees.

Enjoy!

 

 

 

Wow. Calling me arrogant I believe is considered a personal attack and a violation of the rules.   But I won't report you.  I'll just say if you are quick to dismiss other's opinions both here and in the Post then you are in no position to claim that I do not "respect other's rights to disagree".    Enough said, I'll leave it at that and move on.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This kind of **** is getting really old. So far in just the last day or so - if you don't hate and trash the team for any and everything regardless of the facts, and roll over just believing the absolute worst possible reason for anything, you are: A homer, an idiot, just plain stupid, ignorant, and now a loser. Is it that ****ing hard to argue the facts of the debate without making comments about what other people are if they don't agree?

 

As to you not seeing the media exaggerates things in the most negative light, I pointed out 3 very real examples and backed them up with links and proof. You are free to see it another way and feel free to provide evidence that's it's not true. But keep the garbage stuff about what people are if they don't see it your way.

In fairness, he said that's loser talk, not that you are a loser.

 

I'm not sure why the sensitivity level is up so high lately.  In a way, it is loser talk.  Same as when my sons basketball team lost in the playoffs this past weekend.  While speaking with the coach afterwards, we could both clearly acknowledge that is was a horribly officiated game that most likely caused our team to lose.  However he certainly didn't convey that to the kids, because that's an excuse and comes across as "loser talk".  I'm also not sure why homer is included as a derogatory term.  Some guys are just plain homers, and always spin everything to be positive.  If that's what helps them get by, so be it...doesn't mean they aren't a homer.  There are a few folks around here spouting that all is swell in DC and with our acquisitions thus far, but can't really provide any factual reasoning as to why they believe that.  That is a homer, plain and simple.  It doesn't mean they don't deserve to breathe the same air I do.

[Coach Janky Spanky]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This kind of **** is getting really old. So far in just the last day or so - if you don't hate and trash the team for any and everything regardless of the facts, and roll over just believing the absolute worst possible reason for anything, you are: A homer, an idiot, just plain stupid, ignorant, and now a loser. Is it that ****ing hard to argue the facts of the debate without making comments about what other people are if they don't agree?

 

As to you not seeing the media exaggerates things in the most negative light, I pointed out 3 very real examples and backed them up with links and proof. You are free to see it another way and feel free to provide evidence that's it's not true. But keep the garbage stuff about what people are if they don't see it your way.

 

I didn't intend to label anyone as homer, hater, etc.  I shouldn't have said "loser talk."   My point is that yes, the media is harsh on the Redskins right now.  But that's exactly what the Redskins deserve.   As a fan, I'm ok with admitting that.    

 

You're right about your 3 examples.   Events involving the Redskins are covered more negatively than they would be/are when they happen to other teams.  Not a doubt in my mind whatsoever.  My point is that, in my opinion, we deserve it.   If we had fired our OC mid-season like the Ravens, it would've been seen in a much harsher light.   If it took the Ravens a few weeks to promote their LB coach to DC after the outside search was fruitless, the media might not bat an eye.  I don't know much about the Mortensen issue (and yes, I agree with you that t's never right for the media to lie).   

 

Yes, the media exaggerates things about the Redskins.   I'm not sure I agree with you on the extent of it, but that's not my point.  My point is that the Redskins completely deserve it!    We've screwed up so many times that we do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.     If the stuff from the last month happened to the Steelers or the Patriots, the media probably wouldn't question management's reason for firing the GM.        

[Coach Janky Spanky]

32 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Given their track record I have no idea how Snyder and/or Allen should not be held accountable for this total display of dysfunction.   At the very least consider the fact that they looked you in the eye and lied about SM having full control of personal decisions.  It should be obvious by now that this simply wasn't true and it never was true.  That is enough for me to be very upset that I was duped.  Again. 

 

Agreed.   This to me is what it comes down to.   I'm not interested in speculating about whether Scot was or was not fired for cause, or arguing about whether Mortensen's tweet was intentionally wrong or just incomplete.    But blaming the media for recent harshly negative reports about the front office is, in my opinion, misplaced given that there are 16 years worth of evidence indicating that the media is correct to blame the front office.    

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, Coach Janky Spanky said:

 

Agreed.   This to me is what it comes down to.   I'm not interested in speculating about whether Scot was or was not fired for cause, or arguing about whether Mortensen's tweet was intentionally wrong or just incomplete.    But blaming the media for recent harshly negative reports about the front office is, in my opinion, misplaced given that there are 16 years worth of evidence indicating that the media is correct to blame the front office.    

 

Absolutely.  This organization has made their bed with decades of examples of treating employees poorly and escalating the drama. Their history of clumsy PR and damage control is perhaps unmatched in American sports.   If other's want to ignore that evidence this is their right, but they should not be judging those who see the organization differently. 

[goskins10]

21 minutes ago, Coach Janky Spanky said:

 

I didn't intend to label anyone as homer, hater, etc.  I shouldn't have said "loser talk."   My point is that yes, the media is harsh on the Redskins right now.  But that's exactly what the Redskins deserve.   As a fan, I'm ok with admitting that.    

 

You're right about your 3 examples.   Events involving the Redskins are covered more negatively than they would be/are when they happen to other teams.  Not a doubt in my mind whatsoever.  My point is that, in my opinion, we deserve it.   If we had fired our OC mid-season like the Ravens, it would've been seen in a much harsher light.   If it took the Ravens a few weeks to promote their LB coach to DC after the outside search was fruitless, the media might not bat an eye.  I don't know much about the Mortensen issue (and yes, I agree with you that t's never right for the media to lie).   

 

Yes, the media exaggerates things about the Redskins.   I'm not sure I agree with you on the extent of it, but that's not my point.  My point is that the Redskins completely deserve it!    We've screwed up so many times that we do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.     If the stuff from the last month happened to the Steelers or the Patriots, the media probably wouldn't question management's reason for firing the GM.        

 

Thanks for the reasonable response. And fair enough. I understand the team does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. But they actually make some stuff up or take way too much latitude with the truth. My biggest problem is the distinct double standard. The best example is reporting McVay leaving as a symptom of a problem.

 

You feel they earned it. I just disagree. But, fair enough.

[Wildbunny]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Absolutely.  This organization has made their bed with decades of examples of treating employees poorly and escalating the drama. Their history of clumsy PR and damage control is perhaps unmatched in American sports.   If other's want to ignore that evidence this is their right, but they should not be judging those who see the organization differently. 

The fact that Snyder and Allen are assholes doesn't mean that others are allowed to do whatever they want.

 

Bashing them for the sole fact of bashing doesn't makes you any brighter than they are. Just puts you at there level. (Not directed to you specifically, just a general statement).

 

If media believe they are idiots, fine. But if they only do their job trying to prove they are, they just makes themselves idiots as well.

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

The fact that Snyder and Allen are assholes doesn't mean that others are allowed to do whatever they want.

 

Bashing them for the sole fact of bashing doesn't makes you any brighter than they are. Just puts you at there level. (Not directed to you specifically, just a general statement).

 

If media believe they are idiots, fine. But if they only do their job trying to prove they are, they just makes themselves idiots as well.

 

I'd like to point out that the media had it right from the beginning about SM's absence while posters here were still clinging to the grandmother grieving nonsense.    They weren't the idiots here.  They had it right about the turmoil and the inevitable end for SM and they have a pretty good handle on the organization's role in all of this IMO. 

[Wildbunny]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I'd like to point out that the media had it right from the beginning about SM's absence while posters here were still clinging to the grandmother grieving nonsense.    They weren't the idiots here.  They had it right about the turmoil and the inevitable end for SM and they have a pretty good handle on the organization's role in all of this IMO. 

It's not about being right with the results, it's about the reasoning itself.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just now, Wildbunny said:

It's not about being right with the results, it's about the reasoning itself.

 

And looking at an organization that has 18 years of dysfunction, 18 years of treating employees poorly and 18 years of total chaos means it's sound reasoning to look hard at the organization this time too. 

[Morneblade]

I think most people in here can agree that we've done a lot of stupid things as a organization, AND our local media, especially WaPo is pretty hard on the Redskins. It's essentially a 2 way street here, with blame going to both sides.

[Wildbunny]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

And looking at an organization that has 18 years of dysfunction, 18 years of treating employees poorly and 18 years of total chaos means it's sound reasoning to look hard at the organization this time too. 

OK, so whatever happens, you'll blame Bruce and Dan for past stuff no matter what. You don't need to read anything your mind is set up whatever happens.

 

No need to talk then.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I am so tired of the media being blamed for every bad story written.  Are there inaccuracies?  Sure, been that way for a hundred years. But we need to look at the people providing the material.  The media is not pulling this stuff out of their butt, the organization is giving them plenty to work with. They have screwed us the fans over for 18 years.

Stop giving the organization a break, then have done nothing to deserve it. 

3 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

OK, so whatever happens, you'll blame Bruce and Dan for past stuff no matter what. You don't need to read anything your mind is set up whatever happens.

 

No need to talk then.

 

Wait did you just say "You don't need to read anything your mind is set...." after bashing the media for spreading untruth?  Color m confused. 

 

I am a big believer in you are what you do. And they have done so much over the past 18 years that yeah, no benefit of the doubt from me.  Why on Earth would they deserve that?  And again there is plenty of blame in this story too.  Why you do it is your right, just don't expect us to all fall in line. 

[JSSkinz]

Just read the article, seems like a lot of mismanaged information poured out.  Its interesting that we now know Kirk was the one who pulled back on the contract, I do understand Scott wanted to extend him but that was pre 2015 season so realistically even if he resigned we would be in the same situation as we are now needing a long term deal for realistic starter type money.

 

I wonder what others think about Scott addressing the players or ripping them when they deserve it, I'm old school so I'm for a little tough love but I'm not sure that should come from the GM, seems like something the coaches should be doing.

[Wildbunny]

21 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Sure, been that way for a hundred years.

 

21 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I am a big believer in you are what you do.

Right in the same post you blame the media for being inaccurate. And believe they are what they do.

 

Still when it comes to Bruce and Dan, you 100% believe what they say and thinks Dan and Bruce have an 18 year of history of dysfunction. Even so Bruce has been here since what? 2009/2010? And that those 18 years are much more valuable that a hundred years of inaccuracies.

 

I could tell you the story of a famous female singer from the sixties here in France. Years ago, two guys from a local newspaper didn't had any news to put on their headpage... And for whatever reason, they camed out with the story that this girl, was in fact a guy... That was complete bull****. But nearly 50 years later that story still follow that woman that keeps on being ask if she's a boy or girl?

 

What do you know of the dysfunction in Redskins Park? You know what media tells you. And if they aren't accurate when it comes to Bruce and Dan, they're right, because that fits your narrative. Now, how do you think this would have been covered if that happened in... well.... Seattle or SF? Just curious. What if the real truth behind this is that Scot came to work drunk and punched Jay or Bruce or whoever you want because he told him to go home because he was drunk and not ready to work? And the Redskins aren't giving more info regarding the incident because they don't feel like adding stuff and look like they are bashing Scot because they know that it wouldn't matter, because it's Dan and Bruce to blame.

 

So no, you don't need to read... You've already blamed Bruce and Dan, for everything.

 

I'd like media to stick to facts and remain unbias no matter what.

[mcgraw238]

I don't think anyone is citing McVay hiring as a HC as dysfunction, more like an issue that the staff has to adjust to going forward that wasn't anticipated. They hired a new QB coach and promoted from within for OC, but Jay is going back to play calling which pulls him away from HC duties. It's certainly something that can work out but cause for concern given how it went year 1. The DC firing was fine though its debatable whether he was a scapegoat given the talent he had to work with. What reflects poorly on the Skins is the search process and their inability to land any top target before settling on Manusky. Time will tell how that goes. The rest of the offseason has been a dumpster fire under any objective measure. Even if SM was a stumbling drunk, they organization once again looked incompetent. I have no idea how Tony Wylie is able to pull down a check from Redskins Park. What does the guy do other than yell "no means no"?

[Wildbunny]

3 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

I wonder what others think about Scott addressing the players or ripping them when they deserve it, I'm old school so I'm for a little tough love but I'm not sure that should come from the GM, seems like something the coaches should be doing.

That should come from the coaches, no doubt.

 

But that story doesn't tell if those players haven't already been smacked by the coaches already. If coaches do it and it gets them nowhere, then it's fine to me that the GM takes care of it. And if it's not enough, work out a trade to get rid of the problem.

[Dissident2]

Can someone translate this Breeland tweet for me? 

 

Quote

tho whole year I peep vibes more than anything never talk peep my environment

 

No clue what this means. 

[Spearfeather]

3 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

Can someone translate this Breeland tweet for me? 

 

 

No clue what this means. 

 

A little language.

 

 

 

I think Breeland is saying he gets feelings around Redskins Park, but never actually hears anything.

[justice98]

I don't really have a problem with Scot talking to the players.  He's clearly a take charge guy and these situations need handling, so he handled them.  

 

By the same token, if it was a problem, you simply tell Scot to stop doing that.  It shouldn't have deteriorated the relationship to this extent unless Scot was ignoring requests from coaches or mandates from Bruce or Snyder to cease and desist.

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

 

I think Breeland is saying he gets feelings around Redskins Park, but never actually hears anything.

[JSSkinz]

20 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I don't really have a problem with Scot talking to the players.  He's clearly a take charge guy and these situations need handling, so he handled them.  

 

By the same token, if it was a problem, you simply tell Scot to stop doing that.  It shouldn't have deteriorated the relationship to this extent unless Scot was ignoring requests from coaches or mandates from Bruce or Snyder to cease and desist.

 

Just seems odd but I do agree if the precedent wasn't set then it was a failure on the team to set standard SOP's which is the core of every business.

 

When I was in college I did see the Dean and AD when I got red cards, it was a disciplinary action and I had to endure the "please don't embarrass us" talk which may be what Scott was doing more than trying to get Breeland to play at his ceiling.

[RedBeast]

We always had at least:

2 attack plans

2 to 4 retreat plans

And a "go to hell" plan (read "steal and peel")

 

We can argue all day here, and that is basically what we are doing. Why? Nobody knows the real deal and it's all conjecture and feelings... we probably will never know the real deal. But we continue to attack each other and defend our points that are closest to our hearts as well as  our own personal views towards the team, who we all love so dearly.

 

I think it's wise that we stop attacking each other and try and find some common ground to band together under these difficult situations. God knows Redskins fans need some sort of 12 step help group, and that is for those that drink  as well as those who do not. 

 

Lets try to have a little peace and consideration beetween our brothers and sisters on this board... because right now? In my opinion? We could really use some help from each other. The ****ing media and highly ****ed up PR and Executive teams have us fighting between our own family like the war between the states. All of our own blood is on the ground. Aint nobody else bleeding here, just us.

[ZRagone]

To me, there are two different ways to look at the media in this town. Or well, one way to look at it, but two ways to take it.

 

The media in this town wants there to be drama. Drama equals things to talk about. Contrary to the popular refrain of "we'd love if things were going great", it's just not true. The only thing better for them than "things going great" is "drama, even when things are going great". It allows them to have their cake and eat it too. 

 

However, just because the media loves Drama and will at times try to create it, doesn't mean ACTUAL Drama is not present. Nor does it mean we should ignore the drama when it's pretty clearly legitimate. 

 

Do I think our media is largely horrible, always trying to question things or create a situation when things are going well? Absolutely. Unfortunately, a lot of times they don't actually have to TRY to do those things, because this team gives them fodder for it.

 

There is no way, shape, or form that this whole GM issue hasn't been 1) drama 2) a legitimate news story. There is FAR too much smoke, on both sides, to act like either side is snow white in this, and that it's just the big bad media creating some kind of drama demon. And while they like to stoke the fires and they like to manufacture drama, I don't quite believe they're apt to just blatantly make things up. There's too many potential professional pitfalls to do that. However, how significant their "sources" are at times, and what they choose to focus on and what they decide to ignore, IS likely what's fudgable. 

 

It's absolutely possible to both think the Redskins are an absolute mess that continue to trip over their own feet, AND to believe the Media are a bunch of teenage girls aching for the next round of drama to ensue even if they have to help it along.