Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Taylor 36 said:

Then you don't need to comment on it.  Period.  Failing to read a well thought out post but deciding to comment on said post is disingenuous and diminishes the quality of this message board. 

Last I checked you are not a mod,  nor is any of this back and forth about this contributing quality to the board.  If you've got an issue with my post, take it to PM.  I'm done with this here.

 

I didn't tell anyone else not to read his post or that it was crap.  I simply think the debates back and forth over 'facts' is getting ridiculous because we will never be privy to the facts about what took place in Ashburn.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just to point out...an article on csn includes the following:

 

"After successfully lobbying for the team to make Kirk Cousins the starting quarterback and bench Robert Griffin III in August of 2015, taking five hours to persuade Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder that it was the right move..."

 

This is getting repeated and reported as fact now. It will become part of the accepted conventional wisdom that just proves how inept Allen is and how sharp Scot is/was. It won't ever be questioned in the media, even though it contracts the media.

 

That's why **** like this should matter.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't have Scot's back, I don't have Bruce's back.  I don't care about their dispute from a personality or antics perspective.  Maybe Bruce is the good guy, Maybe Scot is the good guy -- maybe they both were bad guys in their own way.    So as for the discussion about hey maybe Bruce isn't the bad guy in spite of how he's protrayed -- we should give the dude a break, etc.  My thought is it's cool to each their own.  But to me its meaningless.

 

Just as a reminder, this is what I was responding to. You said:

 

"If Bruce isn't a control freak (versus other stories out there) -- we will see based on the next GM hire. "

 

I was responding to that, and saying hiring Scot didn't seem to show Bruce isn't a control freak lol...so I'm not sure how the next GM hire will do that. That's it.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The also extends to the Redskins PR arm on TV, Redskins Nation.  The other day they show Scot's drafts and say to the viewer what do you think -- implying that his drafts were bad and on the same program they hype that Scot wasn't that big of a loss because he was just one part of the group think approach the front office used on both free agency and the draft.  So what it is Scot made bad decisions or don't lament the loss of Scot because he wasn't the guy making the decisions single handily anyway?   Then there was a heavy plug about how great Bruce Allen is. 

 

Remember when everyone thought it would be better if the Redskins said something to counter all the bad PR? lol...

 

Staying silent looks like a wise decision in retrospect. Larry's stuff was embarrassing.

[bedlamVR]

Looking at the recent breeland tweets - special relationship with him and Scott ... you then have Baker catching a game and calling the team out for the GMSM fiasco - special relationship ... 

 

there are others 

 

point is Scot seems to have been singling out players he saw as his guys - and treating them different to everyone else ... this is fine but it sounds like he has stepped in a couple of times to deal with his guys and undermines the coach and breads an unhealthy locker room ... something which the Dan was rightly vilified for in the past . 

 

people need to realise this is a business . Players need to realise this is their job . No other job is ever - ever going to accept you for 'who you is ' if you don't treat others with respect if they deserve it or not . 

 

Someone needs to take BB aside and educate him and potentially others 

 

 

[Peregrine]

The fact that Scot predicted Cousins success before even his first year starting is pretty remarkable.

 

I keep seeing this line from people who seem to have bought the Redskins view of things saying Scott refused to show up at the combine, and answer phone calls etc, but Ive yet to hear this ANYWHERE?  Are we just making things up now, or is there any real evidence of this?

 

To me, it seems really really telling, that all of the players, who have no interest in protecting someone no longer employed at the organization, are all on one side of this issue.  They all are basically say the Redskins are lying about Scot.

 

And yet fans will buy it hook line and sinker...and thus we deserve to continue to be a terrible team...There are two consistencies to the drama and the leaks, year in and year, for decades.  Dan Snyder, and his right hand yes man.

10 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

Looking at the recent breeland tweets - special relationship with him and Scott ... you then have Baker catching a game and calling the team out for the GMSM fiasco - special relationship ... 

 

there are others 

 

point is Scot seems to have been singling out players he saw as his guys - and treating them different to everyone else ... this is fine but it sounds like he has stepped in a couple of times to deal with his guys and undermines the coach and breads an unhealthy locker room ... something which the Dan was rightly vilified for in the past . 

Oh please, way to just make things up.  So somehow tweeting that you like a guy means he took you aside, pampered you, and had a special relationship with you, and that anyone else who didnt tweet automatically means they didnt have that?  Thats just beyond absurd.  That kind of absurd extrapolation and reasoning would get you laughed out of any real debate.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Oh please, way to just make things up.  So somehow tweeting that you like a guy means he took you aside, pampered you, and had a special relationship with you, and that anyone else who didnt tweet automatically means they didnt have that?  Thats just beyond absurd.  That kind of absurd extrapolation and reasoning would get you laughed out of any real debate.

 

I think he's basing it on more than just the tweet...Breer's article lists Breeland and his interaction with Scot as one of the three main stress points that brought about the end of Scot's time here.

[goskins10]

18 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

The fact that Scot predicted Cousins success before even his first year starting is pretty remarkable.

 

I keep seeing this line from people who seem to have bought the Redskins view of things saying Scott refused to show up at the combine, and answer phone calls etc, but Ive yet to hear this ANYWHERE?  Are we just making things up now, or is there any real evidence of this?

 

To me, it seems really really telling, that all of the players, who have no interest in protecting someone no longer employed at the organization, are all on one side of this issue.  They all are basically say the Redskins are lying about Scot.

 

And yet fans will buy it hook line and sinker...and thus we deserve to continue to be a terrible team...There are two consistencies to the drama and the leaks, year in and year, for decades.  Dan Snyder, and his right hand yes man.

 

18 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Oh please, way to just make things up.  So somehow tweeting that you like a guy means he took you aside, pampered you, and had a special relationship with you, and that anyone else who didnt tweet automatically means they didnt have that?  Thats just beyond absurd.  That kind of absurd extrapolation and reasoning would get you laughed out of any real debate.

 

Here is just one reference. Scot himself said he left on his own. You can find more.

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/02/scot-mccloughan-absent-from-redskins-park-since-february-20th/

 

Major quote:

"McCloughan said the report that he’d been ordered to stay away from Redskins Park on Feb. 20 was “not true”. He said it would “take seven days” to go through the funeral process for his grandmother."

 

Meant to add on point 2 - You mean like many people deciding that Baker was released because he spoke out about a coach they fired? Not that there could be a performance issue and Manusky didn't want him back. Or that RJF was released because he stuck up for Scot? Not that he counted $4M against the cap and they could get $3M back?

 

 

[TheGreek1973]

30 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Just to point out...an article on csn includes the following:

 

"After successfully lobbying for the team to make Kirk Cousins the starting quarterback and bench Robert Griffin III in August of 2015, taking five hours to persuade Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder that it was the right move..."

 

This is getting repeated and reported as fact now. It will become part of the accepted conventional wisdom that just proves how inept Allen is and how sharp Scot is/was. It won't ever be questioned in the media, even though it contracts the media.

 

That's why **** like this should matter.

 

 

it goes beyond that.  RGIII was just about the most marketable player the Redksins have had under Synder.  Just shirt sales along made a bundle for Synder.  I know as fans we are passionate but as much as as we want to believe in "team" colors and such its a freaking HUGE business.  I will bet you anything if you or I were in Synder's shoes and my first year GM and second year HC came to us and said bench the golden money goose for a 4th round white kid was was picked up by a hated ex coach it would take at least 5 hours for us to be convinced.

[gooseneck]

Wow, from these articles it seems like Snyder and Allen pissed all over themselves, then slandered Scott on the way out to cover for them.  Actions of total cowards.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[MonsterMJP]

Bashaud Breeland‏Verified account @Salute_me17 47m47 minutes ago

Starting to feel like u want me out all these negative articles on my name Haha guess what I wouldn't give 2fks life goes on!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Bashaud Breeland‏Verified account @Salute_me17 56m56 minutes ago

Me and Scott had a unique relationship have the up most respect for that man nothing but good vibes to me since he been here point blank ..

 

 

Looks like we now know which DB was crying to Scot in the locker room.

[Warhead36]

Breeland should be focused more on playing better instead of crying about the GM being gone.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

57 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

it goes beyond that.  RGIII was just about the most marketable player the Redksins have had under Synder.  Just shirt sales along made a bundle for Synder.  I know as fans we are passionate but as much as as we want to believe in "team" colors and such its a freaking HUGE business.  I will bet you anything if you or I were in Synder's shoes and my first year GM and second year HC came to us and said bench the golden money goose for a 4th round white kid was was picked up by a hated ex coach it would take at least 5 hours for us to be convinced.

 

The car swerved off the road at "white kid" lol...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The most interesting aspect of the Breer report is that McCloughan was ready to lock up Cousins in early-2015. That would have been wonderful and is, quite frankly, why we brought him in. If you're only going to sign people when it becomes clear to fans that he's worth it, then you don't need a good GM. 

 

I get all the PR reasons that it would have been a tough sell as Cousins was floundering through the first 4-6 games. However, it's another example of this organization giving someone a job and then overruling them when they try to do their job. Imagine having another year or two of team control with Cousins and him being a $10M/year QB right now! 

[Boss_Hogg]

Breeland was straight up trash this past year. I don't know if he was playing injured or if he was dogging it on purpose...but the dude sucked hot ass. We don't know the context of Scot's confrontation with Breeland. Did he do it behind the coaches backs? Did he say something that undermined them? Again we don't know. 

 

The MMQB article is cute and all but it lacks a lot of context in explaining what really happened. 

 

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

it goes beyond that.  RGIII was just about the most marketable player the Redksins have had under Synder.  Just shirt sales along made a bundle for Synder.  I know as fans we are passionate but as much as as we want to believe in "team" colors and such its a freaking HUGE business.  I will bet you anything if you or I were in Synder's shoes and my first year GM and second year HC came to us and said bench the golden money goose for a 4th round white kid was was picked up by a hated ex coach it would take at least 5 hours for us to be convinced.

 

But he hired a man to do a job. You don't get to almost immediately put obstacles in the way of him doing it. 

[dyst]

Of course Allen and more directly Snyder is the root of the problem.  You'd almost have to be an idiot not to realize that by now. How many years do we need as verifiable proof before the light bulb goes off? Fortunately I think most fans have come to grips with this realization.

 

Since 1999 under the ownership of Snyder the team has had 8 head coaches, 7 if you don’t want to count Norv Turner since he was basically inherited and not hired. The only one that left on good terms was Joe Gibbs. The others (Turner, Robiske, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Zorn, Shanahan) always left in embarrassingly bad situations.

 

This guy is a plague on the team. His failure as owner has only produced 5 playoff appearances but countless amounts of drama and chaos. He surrounds himself with yes men and other failures. Those that could possibly help us succeed he gets rid of. It’s a never ending cycle.

 

I’m sure they are out there but I doubt one or many players would speak ill of Scott, but I’m sure there are droves of guys who would dish dirt on Snyder/Allen not to mention the countless media personalities, fans, and little old ladies he’s managed to engulf in his circus.

 

This is why as much as men like Wylie and Allen annoy me; I know it’s not them. The problem is the owner. He doesn’t get it. He won’t ever get it. He’ll hide behind yes me to do his dirty work, but don’t fool yourself, it’s all on him. FAILURE

[Skinz_4_life]

The media hates the redskins and every year they create a story that forces us to bring out the pitch forks and torches. For the longest it was Dan snyder meddling Dan Snyder over spending. Then he does what everyone wanted fired vinny and brought in a person with true football pedigree to run the team. Allens first years they followed the old formula of hiring a retread and giving shanny full control. We seem to have righted the ship in 2012 but the media didn't like that! Get the PFs and Ts ready because now it's shanny vs. griffin ego fest! We eat it up and year later fire shanny. 

 

Allen then hires an up and coming OC in Gruden to be the head coach. His first year the PF and T story is Gruden vs. Griffin, and if you remember Gruden tried to be the play caller and qb coach and it wasn't a good first year. Allen had a similar offseason his draft class was solid and his FA were nothing fancy but mostly duds, but we did land Djax at a good price.

 

We then hired GMSM and Gruden learned from his mistakes  he hired a qb coach and gave mcvay the play calling duties as well as fired haslett. GRUDEN made the decision to start Kirk!! Another solid draft not so fancy FA. Win the division. Then PFs and Ts time with the Scott Vs. cousins. 

 

Fast forward to This year we get an OC promoted to head coach, Fired Joe Barry for poor performance and promoted a DC from with in. Didn't bite on two aging recievers because we have HOME GROWN talent DEVELOPED and ready to take over responsibility. The focus is now shoring up the defense which again nothing to fancy in FA and we have the draft coming up. But of course the PFs and T story now  is ScMc Vs. Allen Vs. cousins Vs. Snyder Vs. Tom Cruise. 

 

So what now? We fire Allen and start over? Stop the bull**** and focus on football not the leaks, tweets, reports, and he said she said bull****. Allen is the front man and post shanny he has us trending in the right direction. Solid coaching and building talent through the draft, and until that changes please stop believing all the bull****!!!! 

[shmohawk]

1 minute ago, dyst said:

Since 1999 under the ownership of Snyder the team has had 8 head coaches, 7 if you don’t want to count Norv Turner since he was basically inherited and not hired. The only one that left on good terms was Joe Gibbs. The others (Turner, Robiske, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Zorn, Shanahan) always left in embarrassingly bad situations.

 

Listing Robiskie, who was only made interim HC so the team could limp to the end of the season after Norv was fired, hurts your credibility.  It is an unnecessary exaggeration often used by fans and pundits alike that undermines a legitimate gripe about Snyder.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8 minutes ago, Skinz_4_life said:

The media hates the redskins and every year they create a story that forces us to bring out the pitch forks and torches.

8 minutes ago, Skinz_4_life said:

 

So what now? We fire Allen and start over? Stop the bull**** and focus on football not the leaks, tweets, reports, and he said she said bull****. Allen is the front man and post shanny he has us trending in the right direction. Solid coaching and building talent through the draft, and until that changes please stop believing all the bull****!!!! 

 

 

First of all - wow. 

 

Secondly - I think the media ADORES the Redskins because we supply a continuous story during otherwise boring times. 

[Skinz_4_life]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

 

First of all - wow. 

 

Secondly - I think the media ADORES the Redskins because we supply a continuous story during otherwise boring times. 

Yea but people buy into it in droves and it forces rash divisions to feed the masses. It only ends up hurting the team. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Skinz_4_life said:

Yea but people buy into it in droves and it forces rash divisions to feed the masses. It only ends up hurting the team. 

 

It does hurt the team, no doubt. But my first point (wow) was that I don't think most of this is media-driven at all. The team's decisions, its PR, etc. are the cause of most of its own problems. 

[dyst]

24 minutes ago, shmohawk said:

 

Listing Robiskie, who was only made interim HC so the team could limp to the end of the season after Norv was fired, hurts your credibility.  It is an unnecessary exaggeration often used by fans and pundits alike that undermines a legitimate gripe about Snyder.

Oh my bad, 6 coaches and a ton of chaos. That totally changes the dynamic. Guess he's not a failure after all. Joking aside, if you support him, care to share why he is not at fault? Also, I didn't mean to call you an idiot directly.

[Skinz_4_life]

16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

It does hurt the team, no doubt. But my first point (wow) was that I don't think most of this is media-driven at all. The team's decisions, its PR, etc. are the cause of most of its own problems. 

 

Wow! So you don't see the significance in an entity that hurts your team when in fact the team is trending in the right direction?  

[RedBeast]

Imagine having to go to your job with this kinda crap all over the airwaves...like working for WorldCom around 2000. Really motivational