Gamebreaker Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'd sign Scott Tolzien to compete with McCoy for starter, and draft a rookie between rounds 1-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveWarrior Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'd say plan B would be to work on developing Nate and see what you have in him. There must have been some logic behind drafting him, so let's find out where he fits in the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I would likely not watch the skins until they forced me to by becoming a winning franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfsire Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 33 minutes ago, Cliffmark1 said: I would likely not watch the skins until they forced me to by becoming a winning franchise. Like Bears fans. Or Ravens fans. Flacco won a SB so it had to be rewarded but how has it hurt the team? Cutler's money? Dalton's money? Like these guys, Kirk looked pretty bad at times this year. Heck, Andrew Luck looked bad at times. I want to see more. I still don't think he is comfortable in tough situations. That's kind of where I draw the line between the decent and the good. Lost to Dallas twice and laid an egg against Carolina and NY at home when it counted. Not to mention the second half against GB in the play-offs last year. I hope he stays, but he's not worth 24 million as a tag or 100 million over 4 or whatever he's asking. He's not Rodgers, or Wilson, or Brady. He doesn't deserve their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 My plans if they let KC walk is to care a lot less until they can prove to me we actually turned the corner as a team with a solid front office. KC walking means to me a major fail on GMSM and the leadership on not signing Cousins LAST YEAR when they should have to a reasonable contract, or at least not even trying to do so. Imagine if in your job you could say lets see how things turn out and then I will make my decision. Now imagine you were making a cool 5 million and you pulled that crap. Again not signing Cousins last year its a major fail on our GM and front office, they are paid the big money to make the difficult decisions. We wasted a whole year and yes I feel this decision had an effect on Cousin's play (even though he played very well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said: My plans if they let KC walk is to care a lot less until they can prove to me we actually turned the corner as a team with a solid front office. KC walking means to me a major fail on GMSM and the leadership on not signing Cousins LAST YEAR when they should have to a reasonable contract, or at least not even trying to do so. Imagine if in your job you could say lets see how things turn out and then I will make my decision. Now imagine you were making a cool 5 million and you pulled that crap. Again not signing Cousins last year its a major fail on our GM and front office, they are paid the big money to make the difficult decisions. We wasted a whole year and yes I feel this decision had an effect on Cousin's play (even though he played very well). But the reality is KC has turned out to be everything GMSM was confused about which is why he did not sign him to a deal last year. Surely he watched enough tape on Cousin's to be concerned. I mean two out of the three losses over the past 5 games this year falls squarely on Cousin's. Our D did not let us down in our last game against the Giants, nor did they allow the Panthers a single point in the 2nd half of that game. Both winnable games that Cousin's choked in. So okay blame our D for some games but you can't for those games. The Panthers were reeling and then we had the must have. But I will concede both have good Defenses and ohhh how they rattled Cousin's. He could not come through. He was drafted in 2012 and has played enough games to not continue to make those type of anxious rookie mistakes. I would have franchise tagged him last year too but guess what? Today I would be in the same position unless hopefully I had a plan as to what I would do if this is how the season turned out. So if our GM concluded if it turned out like this that he would let him walk he is going to let him walk. Or he "tags" him if he is still confused about Cousin's because he did not have definitive course of action based upon similar results. Or he "tags" and trades him for the amount of money some team will pay for him. Cousin's is like a mirage to me. I think it is clear what we have here. And it pisses me off so bad because I wanted him to be good. Folks on this board are caught up in "potential" and over emphasize the yards, etc. and argue for his limitations rather then tangible results which are wins in tough situations. That is what a good QB does, not even a great one. They just do their job. At the end of the day Kirk Cousin's has proved to me he cannot get the ball in the EZ regardless of the bevy of talent/weapons around him. He chokes in big games, and he throws a lot of yards. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 hours ago, skinsmania123 said: He chokes in big games, and he throws a lot of yards. So what? He chokes in the big games that you count, and he dominated in the big games that apparently don't matter to you (Cleveland 2012, 6 must-win games in 2015, etc.). His 34 TDs last year was good for #6 in the NFL. His 29 TDs this year was good for #7 in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 23 hours ago, wolfsire said: Like Bears fans. Or Ravens fans. Flacco won a SB so it had to be rewarded but how has it hurt the team? Cutler's money? Dalton's money? Like these guys, Kirk looked pretty bad at times this year. Heck, Andrew Luck looked bad at times. I want to see more. I still don't think he is comfortable in tough situations. That's kind of where I draw the line between the decent and the good. Lost to Dallas twice and laid an egg against Carolina and NY at home when it counted. Not to mention the second half against GB in the play-offs last year. I hope he stays, but he's not worth 24 million as a tag or 100 million over 4 or whatever he's asking. He's not Rodgers, or Wilson, or Brady. He doesn't deserve their money. Kirk beat green bay this year. If the skins don't sign him I'm just not watching or supporting them until they prove I should. walking from kirk even up to 25 per year is stupid, but so was not signing him earlier. The rest of the team isn't great other than norman, ol, and our recievers and te. Its not like we have some amazing team that propped up kirk while he wasn't making much. In fact the ravens and chicago may have better teams outside of the qb position. Hopkins and the d could have helped us beat dallas. We swept philly iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 1/6/2017 at 3:03 PM, ThomasRoane said: First thing that came to my mind too. If we let go the best QB we've had since Rypien for draft picks that only give us a chance at drafting a franchise QB then I'm out too. I've been with this team since Vince came on board. We've rolled the dice twice with high 1st round picks on a QB and came up snake eyes with both: Shuler and RG III. And candle. Jason Candle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 8:38 PM, mistertim said: Yeah Eli is just one of those dudes who seems to play his best ball when it's most important. We've all seen him lay plenty of eggs during the regular season but there's little doubt that he tends to get it done when it counts. You don't win two SBs out of pure luck. How did eli play tonight with his elite d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/8/2017 at 10:30 AM, skinsmania123 said: But the reality is KC has turned out to be everything GMSM was confused about which is why he did not sign him to a deal last year. Surely he watched enough tape on Cousin's to be concerned. I mean two out of the three losses over the past 5 games this year falls squarely on Cousin's. Our D did not let us down in our last game against the Giants, nor did they allow the Panthers a single point in the 2nd half of that game. Both winnable games that Cousin's choked in. So okay blame our D for some games but you can't for those games. The Panthers were reeling and then we had the must have. But I will concede both have good Defenses and ohhh how they rattled Cousin's. He could not come through. He was drafted in 2012 and has played enough games to not continue to make those type of anxious rookie mistakes. I would have franchise tagged him last year too but guess what? Today I would be in the same position unless hopefully I had a plan as to what I would do if this is how the season turned out. So if our GM concluded if it turned out like this that he would let him walk he is going to let him walk. Or he "tags" him if he is still confused about Cousin's because he did not have definitive course of action based upon similar results. Or he "tags" and trades him for the amount of money some team will pay for him. Cousin's is like a mirage to me. I think it is clear what we have here. And it pisses me off so bad because I wanted him to be good. Folks on this board are caught up in "potential" and over emphasize the yards, etc. and argue for his limitations rather then tangible results which are wins in tough situations. That is what a good QB does, not even a great one. They just do their job. At the end of the day Kirk Cousin's has proved to me he cannot get the ball in the EZ regardless of the bevy of talent/weapons around him. He chokes in big games, and he throws a lot of yards. So what? You wrote half a page without answering the obvious. If Scott can't make a decision or to put it in your words is confused, then he is not the genius he thinks he is. The fact of the matter is no one tags a QB without a backup plan, the only QB tagged was Brees because Rivers was waiting in the wings. Hell how did that work out for San Diego even though Rivers turned out to be border line elite, but he is not IMO Brees. What I was pointing out is this guy is paid a hell of a lot of money to make these decisions, not to say prove it to me. And hell I would give him a pass if he even made an effort to sign him but he offered him 23 million guaranteed when the tag paid him 20 for a year. That is asinine and disrespectful. Now he is going to tell us what? I had to let go of Cousins because he wants too much money? Well not Kaka Sherlock tell us something we don't know. Look at what Gruden said, we have had two number one draft picks and we got a Guard and a hurt player. if that is not telling for you I don't know what is. You can bet Gruden will not be very happy if Cousins walks as he shouldn't. And last but not least when was the last time the Redskins had a QB that in two years time put up 63 TDs and over 9,000 yards passing? What are you smoking dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805RedskinsFan Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/6/2017 at 8:47 AM, Riggo-toni said: If Kirk walks, I will make it my life's mission to destroy the Texans franchise for that IDIOTIC contract they gave to a loser named Brock, which broke the bank. Kudos to the Jets for being sane when it comes to QB salaries. I share that sentiment toward Matt Barkley and Landry Jones for waiting til 2013 to enter the draft, which drove up the price for the RG3 trade. Felt so good watching him toss those 5 picks in week 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said: You wrote half a page without answering the obvious. If Scott can't make a decision or to put it in your words is confused, then he is not the genius he thinks he is. The fact of the matter is no one tags a QB without a backup plan, the only QB tagged was Brees because Rivers was waiting in the wings. Hell how did that work out for San Diego even though Rivers turned out to be border line elite, but he is not IMO Brees. What I was pointing out is this guy is paid a hell of a lot of money to make these decisions, not to say prove it to me. And hell I would give him a pass if he even made an effort to sign him but he offered him 23 million guaranteed when the tag paid him 20 for a year. That is asinine and disrespectful. Now he is going to tell us what? I had to let go of Cousins because he wants too much money? Well not Kaka Sherlock tell us something we don't know. Look at what Gruden said, we have had two number one draft picks and we got a Guard and a hurt player. if that is not telling for you I don't know what is. You can bet Gruden will not be very happy if Cousins walks as he shouldn't. And last but not least when was the last time the Redskins had a QB that in two years time put up 63 TDs and over 9,000 yards passing? What are you smoking dude. What am I smoking? Apparently nothing as good as you are because you are building a fantasy over Kirk's potential rather then the end result because of the yards he put up this year and last. It just can't be more about the yards then getting in the EZ and being adept in the RZ IMO. You have to win games with that sort of yardage. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kirk regress this year in the RZ? I think our GM looked at Kirk in a non-biased manner. I think he took into consideration that he was a relatively new and that there were going to be some hiccups. I think he saw Cousin's not as someone who can take a franchise and carry them on his back but someone, if surrounded, with a strong supportive cast, could effectively run a "pass first" Gruden offense. This year for example Doctson was supposed to be that extra help. He loaded Kirk with receivers, really good receivers. This year particularly I saw, during the last stretch when we were pushing for the playoffs the same mental errors that Cousin's shown in his short career. Not always seeing the field clearly nor reading defenses properly with a definite loss of poise when there is pressure coming from the opposing D - resulting IMO of him locking in and letting the ball go when it is not always the best option (trying to squeeze it in) which has resulted in some bad INT's. I have said it before and i will say it again - I think he gets nervous in big games and gets rattled by pressure upfront. He does not improvise well because he is not very instinctive. And you can't teach that. Again these are my opinions. A few times against Carolina and the Giants he could have taken off and picked up a lot of yards . Look I am a Skin's fan first. If they sign Cousins to a long term deal I will support him. But I am also okay with our GM franchising him again or franchising and trading with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Beck, Dalton John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Why the hell not Fitzpatrick??? He's the alternative to what we have now. Good luck even coming close to winning with any other available QB. And it won't happen with Sudfeld or McCoy. Good, god, I feel like we're about to fall back into musical chairs QB hell again. No Quarterback will ever be accepted by this fan base. Some people need to stop dreaming of the next big one because they'll hate that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Jason Campbell thought about unretiring or so I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwvr Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 9:52 AM, Dissident2 said: If Kirk walks, I say you ride the Colt for a couple years while developing a younger player, whether it's Nate or someone else in a coming draft. While doing that, you sink everything into that defense. Colt is clearly a downgrade in many areas from Kirk, but I do think he can be successful if everything is not on his shoulders. I actually was hoping they'd put him in against the Giants in the fourth when it was clear Kirk was done, although I realized that would never happen for a multitude of reasons. One thing Colt does have over Kirk: he doesn't shrink from the big moment. All that said, I'm really hoping they find a way to bring Kirk back. Sounds to me like there's a lot of damage in that relationship that needs to be repaired quickly, or there's no chance he's coming back. colt is not a starter 2-3 game fill in, i don't think i could stomach him playing a full season 14 hours ago, skinsmania123 said: What am I smoking? Apparently nothing as good as you are because you are building a fantasy over Kirk's potential rather then the end result because of the yards he put up this year and last. It just can't be more about the yards then getting in the EZ and being adept in the RZ IMO. You have to win games with that sort of yardage. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kirk regress this year in the RZ? I think our GM looked at Kirk in a non-biased manner. I think he took into consideration that he was a relatively new and that there were going to be some hiccups. I think he saw Cousin's not as someone who can take a franchise and carry them on his back but someone, if surrounded, with a strong supportive cast, could effectively run a "pass first" Gruden offense. This year for example Doctson was supposed to be that extra help. He loaded Kirk with receivers, really good receivers. This year particularly I saw, during the last stretch when we were pushing for the playoffs the same mental errors that Cousin's shown in his short career. Not always seeing the field clearly nor reading defenses properly with a definite loss of poise when there is pressure coming from the opposing D - resulting IMO of him locking in and letting the ball go when it is not always the best option (trying to squeeze it in) which has resulted in some bad INT's. I have said it before and i will say it again - I think he gets nervous in big games and gets rattled by pressure upfront. He does not improvise well because he is not very instinctive. And you can't teach that. Again these are my opinions. A few times against Carolina and the Giants he could have taken off and picked up a lot of yards . Look I am a Skin's fan first. If they sign Cousins to a long term deal I will support him. But I am also okay with our GM franchising him again or franchising and trading with another team. kirk is a top 12 qb pay the man a top 12 contract , and that is 22-24 million a year. It's that simple you want a top 12 qb you pay him. Now if you are going to not keep jay and start over after next season and that is the teams plan then you don't pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Get rid of Kirk, get rid of Colt ... play Studfeld, sign Fitzpatrick (as respectable back-up) and Draft Mahomes. So simply obviously apparent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said: Get rid of Kirk, get rid of Colt ... play Studfeld, sign Fitzpatrick (as respectable back-up) and Draft Mahomes. So simply obviously apparent! We can trade this year's and next years first round pick to Cleveland to move up and get Deshaun Watson. Now there is a guy that is clutch! Might have to throw a few other lower picks in to make it work...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, tomwvr said: colt is not a starter 2-3 game fill in, i don't think i could stomach him playing a full season kirk is a top 12 qb pay the man a top 12 contract , and that is 22-24 million a year. It's that simple you want a top 12 qb you pay him. Now if you are going to not keep jay and start over after next season and that is the teams plan then you don't pay him. I actually think this is reasonable. I would put him at around number 12th-13th in terms of realistic ability. He is not in the same league as Rodgers, Brady, or Rothlisberger - guys I think who can at times put the franchise on their back and win a few sometimes against the odds. Nor is he a Bree's, Wilson, or Stafford ( I think the finger injury really hurt their chances - his passes were not coming out right after that) . Other QB's I would put before him that are mid tier that have a bit more talent include Ryan, Newton, Luck, Carr (might rise to top tier but he does not have the big wins to show and the leg break this year) and Smith (developed into a good game manager and not making critical errors this year). So yes money for a top 12 contract I agree. Unfortunately that is going to cost around $23 million a year. And I do not know if our GM is going to want to do that. Similar to you I do not want to see Colt all year - he is 2nd string for a reason. I don' t really want to find out all the intricacies of why that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 54 minutes ago, jbird said: We can trade this year's and next years first round pick to Cleveland to move up and get Deshaun Watson. Now there is a guy that is clutch! Might have to throw a few other lower picks in to make it work...... you learned nothing from the RGIII trade did you. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The question should be. Are you guys ready to suck for the next couple of years if Kirk leaves? That's what will happen. 1 hour ago, jbird said: We can trade this year's and next years first round pick to Cleveland to move up and get Deshaun Watson. Now there is a guy that is clutch! Might have to throw a few other lower picks in to make it work...... Just stop! Stop now! 1 hour ago, Gregpeck99 said: Get rid of Kirk, get rid of Colt ... play Studfeld, sign Fitzpatrick (as respectable back-up) and Draft Mahomes. So simply obviously apparent! Vomit!! 16 hours ago, skinsmania123 said: What am I smoking? Apparently nothing as good as you are because you are building a fantasy over Kirk's potential rather then the end result because of the yards he put up this year and last. It just can't be more about the yards then getting in the EZ and being adept in the RZ IMO. You have to win games with that sort of yardage. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kirk regress this year in the RZ? I think our GM looked at Kirk in a non-biased manner. I think he took into consideration that he was a relatively new and that there were going to be some hiccups. I think he saw Cousin's not as someone who can take a franchise and carry them on his back but someone, if surrounded, with a strong supportive cast, could effectively run a "pass first" Gruden offense. This year for example Doctson was supposed to be that extra help. He loaded Kirk with receivers, really good receivers. This year particularly I saw, during the last stretch when we were pushing for the playoffs the same mental errors that Cousin's shown in his short career. Not always seeing the field clearly nor reading defenses properly with a definite loss of poise when there is pressure coming from the opposing D - resulting IMO of him locking in and letting the ball go when it is not always the best option (trying to squeeze it in) which has resulted in some bad INT's. I have said it before and i will say it again - I think he gets nervous in big games and gets rattled by pressure upfront. He does not improvise well because he is not very instinctive. And you can't teach that. Again these are my opinions. A few times against Carolina and the Giants he could have taken off and picked up a lot of yards . Look I am a Skin's fan first. If they sign Cousins to a long term deal I will support him. But I am also okay with our GM franchising him again or franchising and trading with another team. Are you okay with losing for next couple of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, jbird said: We can trade this year's and next years first round pick to Cleveland to move up and get Deshaun Watson. Now there is a guy that is clutch! Might have to throw a few other lower picks in to make it work...... Good thought ... but I think Watson will be a Brownie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo 3squire Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I get that Cousins is a solid QB that we've had in years, but the notion that i'm getting that he's the end all and be all doomsday if we don't sign him is outrageous in all honesty. This is somewhat reminiscent to the RG3 supporters.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, maskedsuperstar said: The question should be. Are you guys ready to suck for the next couple of years if Kirk leaves? That's what will happen. Just stop! Stop now! Vomit!! Are you okay with losing for next couple of years? We suck now ... even if we lose for a few years ... it is better than the "water torture" of Kirk's mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.