Trade Cousins for picks, draft QB???

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

The difference between Eli and Kirk is that Eli rises to the occasion and Kirk has yet to. He has trouble playing on Monday nights. Does it look like he'll go on a playoff run?

 

With that being said, Eli looks like garbage and I would be shocked if he pulls it off this year.

 

Yeah Eli is just one of those dudes who seems to play his best ball when it's most important. We've all seen him lay plenty of eggs during the regular season but there's little doubt that he tends to get it done when it counts. You don't win two SBs out of pure luck.

[sportjunkie07]

If you can't land cousins and don't franchise him you've got to roll with colt Mccoy or sudfield, and hope a qb you like comes to you in the draft. 

 

It's most likely a 2 year deal in all reality though because we have to suck pretty badly next year to get in position to draft one of the top 2 or 3 qb prospects.

 

Absolute no to all free agent qbs with a contract higher than that of colt mccoy. Also, no costly trade downs to pick up the qb that you like. 

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

If you can't land cousins and don't franchise him you've got to roll with colt Mccoy or sudfield, and hope a qb you like comes to you in the draft. 

 

It's most likely a 2 year deal in all reality though because we have to suck pretty badly next year to get in position to draft one of the top 2 or 3 qb prospects.

 

Absolute no to all free agent qbs with a contract higher than that of colt mccoy. Also, no costly trade downs to pick up the qb that you like. 

 

Yeah this year's QB class kinda blows anyway. No real "blue chip" talent. But 2018 could potentially be a really great draft for QBs depending on who comes out.

[zCommander]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah Eli is just one of those dudes who seems to play his best ball when it's most important. We've all seen him lay plenty of eggs during the regular season but there's little doubt that he tends to get it done when it counts. You don't win two SBs out of pure luck.

 

Really? Do you not remember the Houdini act Eli pulled and threw a pass that was not even catch able at all but Tyree pulled that down after it hit his helmet and all bending backwards with only 30 secs left in the game to win it. If that is not pure luck then I don't know what you call it. 

 

But anyway, Kirk can improve if he gets a contract instead. I still think he is playing like he doesn't want to get hurt since he doesn't have a contract. First he had the RG3 monkey on his back and now the contract one. I guess we all will have wait and see what happens. 

[rdskn4eva]

I think people are severely under estimating Cousins

 

Dude threw for 5,000 yards with no run and arguably the worst Redskins defense in a generation, if not ever.  Give him a middling defense and a decent run game and Kirk can win playoff games.

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, rdskn4eva said:

I think people are severely under estimating Cousins

 

Dude threw for 5,000 yards with no run and arguably the worst Redskins defense in a generation, if not ever.  Give him a middling defense and a decent run game and Kirk can win playoff games.

 

Please stop this "no run game" nonsense. We had a pretty decent run game actually. The problem was that Jay and Sean got away from it too easily. 

 

We were 9th in YPA

We were tied for 6th in rushing TDs

We were 21st in YPG

We were 21st in rushing yards.

 

See the disconnect there? When we ran it we actually ran pretty well. That disconnect between YPA and YPG is Jay and Sean being super pass oriented and leaving the run behind too easily.

 

And the yards don't matter if you don't score the TDs and punch it in in the red zone. We didn't do that. The yards are fool's gold without the points.

 

17 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Really? Do you not remember the Houdini act Eli pulled and threw a pass that was not even catch able at all but Tyree pulled that down after it hit his helmet and all bending backwards with only 30 secs left in the game to win it. If that is not pure luck then I don't know what you call it. 

 

But anyway, Kirk can improve if he gets a contract instead. I still think he is playing like he doesn't want to get hurt since he doesn't have a contract. First he had the RG3 monkey on his back and now the contract one. I guess we all will have wait and see what happens. 

 

So that one play got them through multiple playoff games and the Super Bowl twice?

[PapaLazarou]

20 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Really? Do you not remember the Houdini act Eli pulled and threw a pass that was not even catch able at all but Tyree pulled that down after it hit his helmet and all bending backwards with only 30 secs left in the game to win it. If that is not pure luck then I don't know what you call it. 

 

But anyway, Kirk can improve if he gets a contract instead. I still think he is playing like he doesn't want to get hurt since he doesn't have a contract. First he had the RG3 monkey on his back and now the contract one. I guess we all will have wait and see what happens. 

C'mon Z. We are all pissed off at the ridiculous circumstances that the Giants have capitalized on to get their rings (that punt against the 49ers sticks in my mind) but at least Eli has the cojones and the moxie to put the team on his back and win the game. Kirk has not shown that.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

So that one play got them through multiple playoff games and the Super Bowl twice?

 

No. What I was saying was that if not for Tyree Eli would have one SB ring. He rode his defense to both of the titles. He did enough to get there. No different if we had a top 10 D Kirk could have done just enough to get the team into the playoffs or beyond maybe. Eli is not elite QB. That is all. 

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

No. What I was saying was that if not for Tyree Eli would have one SB ring. He rode his defense to both of the titles. He did enough to get there. No different if we had a top 10 D Kirk could have done just enough to get the team into the playoffs or beyond maybe. Eli is not elite QB. That is all. 

 

Oh give me a break, dude. Yes he had good defenses but he played lights out in the 2007 and 2011 playoffs, despite being only decent to good in the regular season.

 

2007 Playoffs and SB:

 

6 TD, 1 INT, 

 

2011 Playoffs and SB:

 

9 TD, 1 INT

 

 

The dude got it done when it counted most.

[TimmySmith]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

16-18 million per year (reportedly they were offering somewhere around there) is not peanuts.

Was and is.  That was nowhere near the going rate as has been established and re-established in every single Cousins/contract thread.   There are people here, who obviously think like the Skins.  The value of Cousins is NOT what the Skins are willing to pay him, it is what someone else is willing to pay him.  

[Kurd Cudins]

When I read the title I assumed this thread was in the context of the 2018 season. Considering he will either be tagged for 2017 or a long term deal will be struck, this thread seems irrelevant. I think the discussion of what will happen NEXT year is the real topic for debate. Do we let Cousins walk for a 3rd round compensatory and roll with McCoy/Sudfeld?

[justice98]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah this year's QB class kinda blows anyway. No real "blue chip" talent. But 2018 could potentially be a really great draft for QBs depending on who comes out.

 

Blue chip college talent at QB is a bit overrated though.   The situation somebody goes to counts as much as anything.  

[PlayAction]

Plan B is you pick up a free agent QB and you continue to build a complete team.  Then you drop a young QB in the mix where the developing talent isn't expected to carry the team on his shoulders. Kirk wants to get paid - - - I'm not going to comment on his talent or his shortcomings.  It's all a question of the contract.  If the contract hamstrings the team's ability to be competitive then no dice.  Signing him to a big contract that guarantees 4 losing seasons is not a better fate than the alternative. 

 

The team devoted roughly 65% of the cap room to the offense and it performed terribly in the red zone.  Yards by themselves are meaningless.  The offense has to change even if Kirk returns - the Skins will have to subtract some WR talent. But do they have to add OL talent capable of establishing the run game?  The status quo ability of the offense (with Kirk) is not good enough to win even with an improved Defense.  And, the Skins have to pay up to improve the Defense.

[jbird2]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:07 AM, Panninho said:

Tank the season and draft Sam Darnold #1 overall next year.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 1/4/2017 at 6:39 AM, Boss_Hogg said:

Simple question...what's your plan B if Kirk bolts to another team for the 2017 season Scot M decides not to keep him on the roster?

 

 

That's a little more accurate.

 

If--IF--that were to actually happen, I'd imagine "Plan B" would include a serious look at whether or not we need to replace the head coach as well.

 

As for Plan B at the quarterback position, if we let Cousins go we're basically saying we're starting over, so drafting a QB by round 3 would be my assumed Plan B. I don't see free agency playing much of a role in things other than to replace McCoy, if necessary.

 

 

 

 

[TheCoach22]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

So that one play got them through multiple playoff games and the Super Bowl twice?

I actually agree with him, I think Manning is trash and that he has been blessed with an extreme amount of luck in his career -- starting with being a Manning (QBs do not have the luxury of playing as poorly as he did early in his career anymore either). It wasn't just that one play, people forget he threw the ball right to Asante Samuels for an easy interception earlier in that drive and it was dropped. In the second SB win he was backed up on his own end and he just chucked it as far as he could and somehow Manningham ran under it and stayed in bounds. He was extremely fortunate in both runs on many, many occasions. Those teams also won with defense. This current NYG team is all defense too. (And, in my opinion they are one and done).

 

Again, for me the only comparison to be made is that once a team is in the playoffs, anything can happen. Kirk has choked far more than he has clutched-up to date, but he is capable in this offense and capable of stretches of really special play.

[Bang]

I agree with Califan..  if Cousins is out, Gruden's right behind. He may hang for a year, but I have a feeling Kirk is his guy, and coaches and QBs are tied together.

I think if Cousins is shown the door (which an inability to sign would be..  the inability should be viewed as a lack of desire) Gruden would feel as if he hasn't got the say in his team that any coach would feel he needs, and he's gone.

I also think it's going to hurt our ability to hire competence in the future.

 

~Bang

[HOF44]

19 minutes ago, Bang said:

the inability should be viewed as a lack of desire) Gruden would feel as if he hasn't got the say in his team that any coach would feel he needs, and he's gone.

I also think it's going to hurt our ability to hire competence in the future.

 

~Bang

That just smacks of Danny.  Can't believe Scot would be that dumb. 

[CBass1724]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Please stop this "no run game" nonsense. We had a pretty decent run game actually. The problem was that Jay and Sean got away from it too easily. 

 

We were 9th in YPA

We were tied for 6th in rushing TDs

We were 21st in YPG

We were 21st in rushing yards.

 

See the disconnect there? When we ran it we actually ran pretty well. That disconnect between YPA and YPG is Jay and Sean being super pass oriented and leaving the run behind too easily.

 

And the yards don't matter if you don't score the TDs and punch it in in the red zone. We didn't do that. The yards are fool's gold without the points.

 

 

20 hours ago, CBass1724 said:

 

It's also not as strong as you're making it out to be.

 

In weeks 4-11 we went 5-1-1 and we averaged 135 yard per game.  Pretty good!  In weeks 1-3 and 12-17 we went 3-6 and averaged 83.5 yards per game, which included a 208 yard performance against the Bears.  Not very good!

 

For our first 3 games and our last 6 games, our running game, outside of the Bears game, was atrocious. If you want to take out the 208 yard game, then we went 2-6 those games while averaging 68 yards on the ground.  We didn't suck at running the ball because we abandoned it.  We sucked at running it because it didn't work very well.

 

 

There were way too many games where the running game absolutely did not work.  It worked well in some games and didn't work at all in most games.  Also, rushing TD's are soooooo overrated when it comes to counting them.  We could pass all day long to the 1 yard line and have a bunch of 1 yard plunges for TD's.  It doesn't mean the running game was effective. Out of our 17 rushing TD's, Kirk had 4 of them.

[CTskin]

55 minutes ago, Bang said:

I agree with Califan..  if Cousins is out, Gruden's right behind. He may hang for a year, but I have a feeling Kirk is his guy, and coaches and QBs are tied together.

I think if Cousins is shown the door (which an inability to sign would be..  the inability should be viewed as a lack of desire) Gruden would feel as if he hasn't got the say in his team that any coach would feel he needs, and he's gone.

I also think it's going to hurt our ability to hire competence in the future.

 

~Bang

Agreed. Without Cousins, there will certainly be a dropoff in offensive production. Would the money spent elsewhere this off-season offset the production, probably not. I'd assume we'd have a sub-.500 record next year and knowing how it goes in DC, that would spell the end of Gruden. I don't think it'd be completely warranted, but it would happen.

[mistertim]

36 minutes ago, CBass1724 said:

 

 

There were way too many games where the running game absolutely did not work.  It worked well in some games and didn't work at all in most games.  Also, rushing TD's are soooooo overrated when it comes to counting them.  We could pass all day long to the 1 yard line and have a bunch of 1 yard plunges for TD's.  It doesn't mean the running game was effective. Out of our 17 rushing TD's, Kirk had 4 of them.

 

Part of the problem is that, instead of adjusting to what the defense was doing to stop the run, Jay and Sean just seemed to say "**** it, we'll just pass all day". Now, sometimes passing IS a great way to adjust, especially if the defense is stacking the box. Pass successfully and make them pay for stacking the box and force them to back off and then that will open up the run game again. But instead of doing that it seemed like once a team stacked the box or was stopping the run game, Jay and Sean would go to the pass but then never come back to the run when the team inevitably adjusted to us passing.

 

6 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

Was and is.  That was nowhere near the going rate as has been established and re-established in every single Cousins/contract thread.   There are people here, who obviously think like the Skins.  The value of Cousins is NOT what the Skins are willing to pay him, it is what someone else is willing to pay him.  

 

Bull****. 16-18 million per year was easily top 10 QB money considering 2015 QB salaries. The problem is that Cousins wanted to be paid as though he were a top 5 QB after HALF a good season and laying an egg and losing in the playoffs. The Skins were willing to pay him what THEY thought his value was but Kirk apparently thought his value was much higher. Do you honestly, truly, believe that a team was going to drop top 5 or top 3 money on a guy who had been mediocre to bad and then had one half of a good season?

[CBass1724]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Part of the problem is that, instead of adjusting to what the defense was doing to stop the run, Jay and Sean just seemed to say "**** it, we'll just pass all day". Now, sometimes passing IS a great way to adjust, especially if the defense is stacking the box. Pass successfully and make them pay for stacking the box and force them to back off and then that will open up the run game again. But instead of doing that it seemed like once a team stacked the box or was stopping the run game, Jay and Sean would go to the pass but then never come back to the run when the team inevitably adjusted to us passing.

I agree about the adjustments.  I'm just not a fan of our running game.  I have noticed that most of the time where we do a playaction fake, there's usually gaping holes that would have been a huge gain had it actually been a run.  I don't know what to attribute that to outside of being predictable and a tendency.  I know Cooley is forever saying we break our tendencies often and are not predictable, yet that doesn't pass the eye test for me. 

[mistertim]

41 minutes ago, CBass1724 said:

I agree about the adjustments.  I'm just not a fan of our running game.  I have noticed that most of the time where we do a playaction fake, there's usually gaping holes that would have been a huge gain had it actually been a run.  I don't know what to attribute that to outside of being predictable and a tendency.  I know Cooley is forever saying we break our tendencies often and are not predictable, yet that doesn't pass the eye test for me. 

 

Yeah me either. Obviously I'm not an expert in any way, but from my admittedly mediocre knowledge of formations, etc I can very often guess when we're running and when we're passing. I don't see much unpredictability and it feels like there were many times the other team's D got our number and we never adjusted.

[TimmySmith]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Bull****. 16-18 million per year was easily top 10 QB money considering 2015 QB salaries. The problem is that Cousins wanted to be paid as though he were a top 5 QB after HALF a good season and laying an egg and losing in the playoffs. The Skins were willing to pay him what THEY thought his value was but Kirk apparently thought his value was much higher. Do you honestly, truly, believe that a team was going to drop top 5 or top 3 money on a guy who had been mediocre to bad and then had one half of a good season?

You have no clue on this.  16-18 barely cracks the TOP 20.  Sam Bradford is 17m.  Osweiler and Tannehill are at $17 and $18m.  You think Cousins was looking for Osweiler money? 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

You have no clue on this.  16-18 barely cracks the TOP 20.  Sam Bradford is 17m.  Osweiler and Tannehill are at $17 and $18m.  You think Cousins was looking for Osweiler money? 

 

He was looking for top 5 money without being a top 5 QB. I don't care what he was "looking for". I'm "looking for" a gold plated Ferrari. It means nothing. What matters is what the Skins and the rest of the league thought/think he is worth. SM obviously didn't think he was worth top 5 or even top 10 money in a long term contract. Who knows what the rest of the league thought he was worth but I would have been very surprised if someone were willing to pay him top 5 money for half a season.