The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, carex said:

 

two seasons.  His rookie year he started 12 games before going on IR.  checking it out he's played 62 games in his career and stated 27.  That's over 40%

 

we didn't have a lot more to spend

 

 

40% is a career back up. Its the same ****ty plan we've been using recently to fix safety. 

 

Maybe drafting Allen says we won't throw **** at the line for 5 years, hoping some of it sticks.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

40% is a career back up. 

 

Yet there is so much debate on here about a position where you may start every game and feature in about 25% of the snaps. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

No, not a lot, but we had contracts we could get off the books.  Plus, the money to the Macs would have been available.  I'd also put more emphasis on our dline than a safety or 1 year deal at ILB.  

 

I'm not mad about how it worked out, but a potentially dominant dline would have been worth it, IMO.  

 

I agree there was money there if needed. I also agree that Manusky who was here last year and Tomsula who is a known Dline specialist were not interested. the fact that he was not even offered a contract tells me a lot.

 

Not directed at you - But there is a incorrect perception that Baker was cheap yet the Redskins overpayed for McGee and McClain.

 

First Baker - Signed to a one yr $6M contract. So the comparisons have to right now have to be for just this year. If they sign Baker again next year then we can compare the 2 yr cost. If they don't it will say something about Baker's level of play.  

 

McClain - Per overthecap.com his CAP hit this year is $3.74M. McGee - Again, per overthcap.com his CAP this year is $3.2M.

 

That's a total of just under $7M, or a whole $1M more, for 2 guys that are younger and have more potential than Baker.

 

Now let's look at if Tampa resigns Baker. You have to assume it's not for less than $6M. So that would brings his 2 yr total to $12M. The guaranteed money for McClain and McGee combined is $13.75M - or $1.75M more than Baker alone - does not include injury guarantees and roster bonuses. Could be more but if it is that means they are performing so I don't think anyone would care.

 

Both contracts are set up so the team can move on in 2 yrs with minimal dead cap. Just not seeing how the team overpayed here.

 

As for performance, for Baker again I will go back to Manusky and Tomsula for their opinion. They were clearly not interested. As for other other guys, they both have injury concerns, no doubt.  That's a fair concern. But the team can get out of the contracts in 2 yrs with minimal impact. If just one works out it will help the team tremendously.

 

IMO the cost of losing baker has been exaggerated.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Yet there is so much debate on here about a position where you may start every game and feature in about 25% of the snaps. 

Yeah, because those snaps are important and we allowed half a first down every freaking time last year. Your point would make sence if it was in regards to a nose, but its not. Its about a career back up, brought in to replace a starter at end.

[carex]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, because those snaps are important and we allowed half a first down every freaking time last year. Your point would make sence if it was in regards to a nose, but its not. Its about a career back up, brought in to replace a starter at end.

 

Baker's only started 53% of his games, only about 10% more than McClain.  McClain apparently only takes plays off when he's rotated off the field, while Baker was known to take some off while on the field.  Also Baker was capable of playing NT, but refused despite us only beng in that formation 20-25% of the time and the fact as one of out better DL we would not have pulled him like we would someone like Golston when he was NT

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Baker's only started 53% of his games, only about 10% more than McClain.  McClain apparently only takes plays off when he's rotated off the field, while Baker was known to take some off while on the field.  Also Baker was capable of playing NT, but refused despite us only beng in that formation 20-25% of the time and the fact as one of out better DL we would not have pulled him like we would someone like Golston when he was NT

Bakers not a nose. Everyone is in agreement on that right?

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

Love seeing those stats for Kelley and Kerrigan - it's great to be reminded of actual play vs our perception.  Competition for Kelley only helps, and Kerrigan having a better scheme (I think this truly hindered his play vs the run last year) and better players around him should also help.  

 

 

I use PFF liberally but I take some of their scores with a grain of salt.   We can use their scores for example to settle some of the debates here and some people wouldn't like it -- for example score wise to PFF, Baker is superior to both McGee and McClain.  And if you look at McClain's scores, the dude stinks both against the run and the pass.  His summary score generalizes him as a bad player.   McGee had good scores. 

 

Also it depends on what scores you focus on.  According to them, Kelley and Matt Jones score wise is about the same. Both have good ratings but not great. According to their scores Kelley is the worst pass blocking RB on the team by far and is the worst pass catcher.   Not good on either count according to PFF.

 

I rewatched the Carolina and the Giants game and Kelley didn't look hot to me in either one when the season was on the line and certainly not elusive.   He had one 100 yard game in college and the NFL combined and that was the GB one where that long run at the end got him over that hump.   I think Kelley is OK.  And I like the fact that he's slimmed down and is raring to go this off season -- so maybe he picks it up a notch.  I hope so.  But i am betting on Perine over him.  Will see, though. 

 

As for Kerrigan, I think Cooley sums it up well -- he's a good to at times very good but not great player -- really for one reason and that is he doesn't consistently bring pressure game to game where teams have to game plan for him much.  And the great ones are more consistent.  But I am glad Kerrigan is on the team.    

 

Here's PFF on Baker

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-10-under-the-radar-players-about-to-hit-free-agency/

3. Chris Baker, DI, Redskins (82.2)

Redskins interior defender Chris Baker will turn 29 in 2017, but he has been a very good all-around player on the defensive line for two seasons. Baker gets consistent pressure on the quarterback, but is an even better run defender, as you’ll rarely find the veteran out of position. While Baker’s production took a slight step back in 2016 from 2015, he still is a reliable and dependable option for teams looking for stability on the D-line.

[Est.1974]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, because those snaps are important and we allowed half a first down every freaking time last year. Your point would make sence if it was in regards to a nose, but its not. Its about a career back up, brought in to replace a starter at end.

 

Of course Baker was going to start here. Our DL sucked. I think that point seems lost on people. Let's see how swaggy swags down in Tampa first.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Baker's only started 53% of his games, only about 10% more than McClain.  McClain apparently only takes plays off when he's rotated off the field, while Baker was known to take some off while on the field.  Also Baker was capable of playing NT, but refused despite us only beng in that formation 20-25% of the time and the fact as one of out better DL we would not have pulled him like we would someone like Golston when he was NT

 

I was paying attention to the D line in the games against Giants-Carolina games specifically and I saw Baker on occasion play nose.  I didn't chart it, maybe it was just once.  But I saw him play it, Ioannidis play it and Jenkins play it.  With Hood primarily playing nose.  Baker played mostly left DE -- sounds like that's where Allen will play now.

[Est.1974]

If losing Baker is the worst thing we have to worry about, we are in decent shape. We've upgraded the DL for my money.

[carex]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bakers not a nose. Everyone is in agreement on that right?

 

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Swaggys-Surge-Chris-Baker-Showing-His-Worth/f247154e-5f51-456b-be9a-ca959507fcae

 

from our own site, it mentions him playing nose

 

the wiki on his original position:

By the start of 2012 training camp, Baker was fully healed and was expected to compete with Chris Neild for the backup nose tackle position.^[8][9] After Neild was placed on injured reserve in the preseason, Baker made the final 53-man roster in his place

 

 

search  Chris Baker nose tackle, you'll find plenty of it.  Including him saying he's not really interested in playing it

 

[HTTRDynasty]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I use PFF liberally but I take some of their scores with a grain of salt.

 

Yea, the thing about PFF is their grades and rankings are so subjective to the point where it's pretty much useless.  For example, I remember in 2015 they gave Aaron Rodgers a negative grade for a game where he had 333 passing yards, 5 TD's, 0 interceptions, and a 138.5 passer rating.  I believe their excuse was that he made easy throws that would be expected of any QB and he had a fumble and a pass that should have been intercepted.  They do not take into account the fact that his pre-snap reads and manipulation of the defense made it possible for him to make the easy throws that led to all those yards and TDs.

 

There is just no site out there that can accurately grade a player on a per snap basis, because they do not have the level of access that coaches do when it comes to coverage assignments, keys, run fits, etc. 

 

PFF should be used for their advanced stats (which are admittedly impressive), and that's it.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, carex said:

 

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Swaggys-Surge-Chris-Baker-Showing-His-Worth/f247154e-5f51-456b-be9a-ca959507fcae

 

from our own site, it mentions him playing nose

 

the wiki on his original position:

By the start of 2012 training camp, Baker was fully healed and was expected to compete with Chris Neild for the backup nose tackle position.^[8][9] After Neild was placed on injured reserve in the preseason, Baker made the final 53-man roster in his place

 

 

search  Chris Baker nose tackle, you'll find plenty of it.  Including him saying he's not really interested in playing it

 

Yeah, I know he's played nose. I know he doesn't want to play it. I know he isn't a nose. So do you. I have no idea what your point is..   again.

27 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Of course Baker was going to start here. Our DL sucked. I think that point seems lost on people. Let's see how swaggy swags down in Tampa first.

He didnt suck when he had talent around him. Him being gone, my best guess, is all attitude. 

[carex]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I know he's played nose. I know he doesn't want to play it. I know he isn't a nose. So do you. I have no idea what your point is..   again.

 

he's a 330 pound DL who'd be a DT in a 4-3! how is he not a NT besides not wanting to be?

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, carex said:

 

he's a 330 pound DL who'd be a DT in a 4-3! how is he not a NT besides not wanting to be?

Hows a dt in a 43 the same as a 34 nose? Its not right? We run a 34. Thats what Ive repeatedly said. 

[carex]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Hows a dt in a 43 the same as a 34 nose? Its not right? We run a 34. Thats what Ive repeatedly said. 

 

it's not, though some 4-3 teams do actually line up a guy on the nose, but it means he's an interior lineman.  And how does your question deny he's a NT

[Skinsinparadise]

Got LaConfora yesterday on the radio touting the Giants winning the NFC East.  Now Bucky Brooks saying you can print the NFC East champions shirts now for the NY Giants:  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000808939/Brooks-Giants-are-going-to-win-NFC-East?campaign=tw-nn-NFLN-Video+Up+to+the+Minute-sf79092853-sf79092853

 

The one thing I like about all of this is it reminds me some of 2015, where everyone in the division but the Redskins were hyped.

[skinny21]

@SkinsinparadiseYeah, Kelley struggled late in the year (which coincided with his knee injury I believe).  He also looked pretty poor as a pass catcher, but I think he's better than he showed - multiple times I saw Cousins put the ball in a tough spot, and one or more times I think the jitters got to him.  When he did catch it, he looked pretty good doing so.  

 

Pass blocking, eh, he was an UDFA rookie... I expect that part of his game to improve.  

 

I think the bigger test is going to be how does he perform vs Perone behind this oline, because that's where that elusive measure really came into play - Kelley avoiding the lost yards.  Remains to be seen if Perine can do the same.  With all that said, I'd say there's a solid chance that Perine takes the starting role in camp.  

 

 

Wrt to Kerrigan, he can do a lot of things really well, the question is whether improved coaching and teammates can help his 'very good' play to become more consistent.  The issue is that he's an excellent LOLB/LDE, but doesn't compare auite as favorably to his elite peers.  If someone on the other side can provide very good play, he's an awesome complement IMO.  (an interior pass rush should help as well).  

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Got LaConfora yesterday on the radio touting the Giants winning the NFC East.  Now Bucky Brooks saying you can print the NFC East champions shirts now for the NY Giants:  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000808939/Brooks-Giants-are-going-to-win-NFC-East?campaign=tw-nn-NFLN-Video+Up+to+the+Minute-sf79092853-sf79092853

 

The one thing I like about all of this is it reminds me some of 2015, where everyone in the division but the Redskins were hyped.

 

With our additions, I think we're probably the most balanced team in the East. Every other team has more holes than us, Philly needs CB's/RB's/LB's, NY Needs OL/RB/LB/QB (Eli has dropped off), and Dallas Needs TE/S/DL/CB (They drafted a ton of CBs, but they were all past the 2nd round)

 

When I look at us, we need S/DL (Even though we drafted Allen) but It's hard for me to consider anything else a weakness as a unit. So I think we're being pretty underrated going into the season from a talent perspective, which is fine. If we win the division this year we've won it 3 out of the last 6 years. 

[Cliffmark1]

22 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

2-14

It could stop us from a deep playoff run. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

23 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

I will start with, sorry mod's but I couldn't find a part of this post to remove.  I'm sorry.  I hate this damn post, yet VOR is absolutely correct. High hopes, great free agency (it was damn good-maybe not great), and a seismic draft.....we think.  VOR made me think; how will this all REALLY fit together?  We truly don't know.  Things look good on paper, but how many times have we done THAT cycle before?  Hopefully the offensive pieces work. I love workout videos and all of that crap, but need to see it when the bullets fly.  More hopefully, the defensive pieces fit.  Great post from the perspective of.....we just don't know yet. We don't. I hope they DO. Greatness. HTTR 

I think that you took the post even further than what I intended.  I think most folks on the board BELIEVE that the moves the FO have made, for the most part, have improved the team.  We also see and disect every single 4th string LB, so we know the team exceptionally well.

 

My overall point is that objectively, and especially from an outsider's perspective who doesn't focus ONLY (or predominantly) on this team, they look out and see a team that lost 4 of it's last 6, with the 2 wins against a last place Eagles team and a horrendous Bears team.  And who lost their top 2 weapons.

 

I personally think that in aggregate, the FO did a great job, and the team will be 1.5 games better next year.  That gets them to 10 wins and the playoffs.  Why?  Because i think Pryor and Crowder/Doctoson, whoever will be fine offensively, they'll be better running the ball, and the defense will be better, mostly because it can't get much worse. 

 

It did get me thinking, though:  What is the biggest question mark gong into the season?  Is it if the defense is improved?  Or if the offense can remain excellent without it's top 2 WRs from the last several years?

 

I think most folks on here are just assuming the offense will be fine.  I kinda am too. But we don't KNOW that.  

 

I am actually more certain the defense is going to be better (not good, just more competent) than I am that the offense will be the same.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

I feel like we're at the point where everybody has high hopes and can envision their road to success this season.  

 

I think overall we've gotten better because how many positions are we at critical or an injury away from that position being critical.  

 

QB - of course

RB - now we've got Kelley and some talent behind him. Brown is still a ?, but at this point would be more of a surprise.  

WR - more unproven guys so this one may not pan out but Crowder and Pryor are legit.  Doctson has potential, Quick, Harris and Davis may be surprises, and Grant is meh

OL - 4 legit starters,  and question marks at LG, but even the guy penciled in there is a good enough pass blocker

TE - Reed and Davis could be one of the best combos on the league. After that two injury prone guys in Paul and Carrier, and a rookie to help solidify the unit

 

DL - Some known mediocre guys (Hood, Mc1, Mc2), one guy with talent but injury history (Taylor), some depth guys who could improve (Lanier, Ioannidis), and a rookie with the potential to be an all pro (Allen).  

 

OLB - one proven consistent workhorse (Kerrigan), one injury prone guy (Galette), one athletic freak (Smith), one rookie workhorse (Anderson), and one who had his best year last year but with some help (Murphy). 

 

ILB - one athletic freak (Brown), one smart likeable but not always in position player (Compton), one guy who plays better than he gets credit for but not as well as he needs to (Foster), and a undersized guy who we've seen little from (Spaight), and a S being moved to ILB (Harvey-Clemons)

 

S - one guy who was either played out of position at LB or who wasn't good enough to beat out some bad competition last year (Cravens), another guy who spent his career in the box until last year when he did very well in space (Swearinger), and some question marks. 

 

CB - an all pro (Norman), a legit starter who had a bad treat or who was exposed last year  (Breeland), one slot corner who was abused and/or lost his confidence and/or was injured (Fuller), one guy still learning the position (Dunbar), and some rookie question marks. 

 

I feel like the good part is that our question marks with the exception of WR and DL are new guys coming in behind guys on the team and forced to compete. But that doesn't mean that we've solved every problem just because we have bodies,  sometimes even talented bodies.  I think some of these guys will have to prove they can stay healthy,  play 40+ snaps a game,  etc. Then they'll have to show that they're actually better and not just the same or better in some area and worse in others.  

 

I can easily see this being a 4 team race for the crown. We're helped by an easier schedule,  but that's not much in the grand scheme of things. I think a lot will be determined by how we play our youth and how many we're forced to play early. 

[Rattlesnake88]

1 hour ago, Cliffmark1 said:

It could stop us from a deep playoff run. 

The last true NT we had helped the packers beat us first round in 15.

 

Alas he was out of shape but many "true" nt's are.

 

i think if we can find someone 300 lbs and can anchor. We should be fine with good pieces around him. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Got LaConfora yesterday on the radio touting the Giants winning the NFC East.  Now Bucky Brooks saying you can print the NFC East champions shirts now for the NY Giants:  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000808939/Brooks-Giants-are-going-to-win-NFC-East?campaign=tw-nn-NFLN-Video+Up+to+the+Minute-sf79092853-sf79092853

 

The one thing I like about all of this is it reminds me some of 2015, where everyone in the division but the Redskins were hyped.

Eli seems to go up then down every other year, so who knows, but I'd definitely say they're the favorites to win the division this year.

[Hail2theSkins24]

I think the NFC East will be ridiculously competitive this year. I could see final standings like:

  1. 9-7

  2. 9-7

  3. 8-8

  4. 7-9