The Rob Kelley Thread.

[ksun247]

Heard on ESPN980 today that Moses said "with Fat Rob being an ex-fullback, he could read/see/understand where the holes would be. And that makes it easier for him and the O-line." or something like that. I'm just glad he's protecting the ball and gaining positive yardage. Now, they just need to run some screens with him and give him more opportunities to catch the ball out of the backfield.

[Koolblue13]

Sounds like the line is a little happier with the switch too.

[TSO]

Rob is an extremely mature runner for his age. It's almost shocking to see the level of understanding he has regarding spacing and when/where to cut given his rookie status. 

Guys don't run like that early in their careers, it's usually the savvy vets who've lost a little in the way of their athleticism but make up for it with their experience and "feel". Guys like Frank Gore, Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. Le'veon Bell runs like that, too, though he got to that style very quickly himself and is a much more dynamic talent. He's very similar to those guys right now and it's extremely impressive considering his age. 

That nugget from the Oline about his history at FB really explains it, because it's rare to see. It's pretty neat they recognize that, too. 

As for this thread, it's a great source for some psycho-analysis of the human ego. Jumbo would love it. 

All offseason I know for a fact a bunch of you in here were screaming for the team to address the RB position and were pissed we were going into the season with the group we had, including Kelley and Thompson. Stupid idiots not re-signing Alf! Pierre Thomas! Bring in any vet! Something! 

Now it's like you knew all along Rob would be great.  

The team was smart to address RB the way they did. Stay young, fresh legs, and keep developing guys. I remember thinking and posting about being utterly confused by that sentiment knowing how often people here in the past would complain about us overspending on the position when smart teams devalued it and would consistently churn young players there. 

They did just that, yet it was complaint after complaint, so it is funny to see the tone of this thread here. 

I will never fault them for sticking with the dynamic talent that is Matt Jones for as long as they did. Had things clicked with him he could be a game changer. Furthermore, he was never as terrible this season as so many made him out to be here based on their preconceived notions, pre-reoccurrence of fumbling issues. 

It has nothing to do with draft status, that argument is utterly ridiculous knowing how often this team has started players over others with higher draft pedigrees. For God's sake, just the start of this season they had Phillips (UDFA) over Fuller (3rd rounder). Yet, I'm supposed to hear this chest thumping going on about how smart ES was and how stupid the team was for wanting Jones to succeed due to draft status? 

Some of you... just, wow. 

Anyway, I hope it still happens with Matt. Not going to kick the young man while he's down. 

Hopefully they continue to approach all of our young backs and whomever else they bring in here (hopefully through the draft) the same way they have been. 

They've went about it the right way, and I'm glad everyone here can be happy about it. 

[Koolblue13]

I don't think you can fault the fan base for being concerned about a fumbling injury loving player, replacing a consistent fan favorite.

My delusional ass thought he'd be a wrecking ball version of Marshall faulk until preseason anyway 

[moondog]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Rob is an extremely mature runner for his age. It's almost shocking to see the level of understanding he has regarding spacing and when/where to cut given his rookie status. 

Guys don't run like that early in their careers, it's usually the savvy vets who've lost a little in the way of their athleticism but make up for it with their experience and "feel". Guys like Frank Gore, Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. Le'veon Bell runs like that, too, though he got to that style very quickly himself and is a much more dynamic talent. He's very similar to those guys right now and it's extremely impressive considering his age. 

That nugget from the Oline about his history at FB really explains it, because it's rare to see. It's pretty neat they recognize that, too. 

As for this thread, it's a great source for some psycho-analysis of the human ego. Jumbo would love it. 

All offseason I know for a fact a bunch of you in here were screaming for the team to address the RB position and were pissed we were going into the season with the group we had, including Kelley and Thompson. Stupid idiots not re-signing Alf! Pierre Thomas! Bring in any vet! Something! 

Now it's like you knew all along Rob would be great.  

The team was smart to address RB the way they did. Stay young, fresh legs, and keep developing guys. I remember thinking and posting about being utterly confused by that sentiment knowing how often people here in the past would complain about us overspending on the position when smart teams devalued it and would consistently churn young players there. 

They did just that, yet it was complaint after complaint, so it is funny to see the tone of this thread here. 

I will never fault them for sticking with the dynamic talent that is Matt Jones for as long as they did. Had things clicked with him he could be a game changer. Furthermore, he was never as terrible this season as so many made him out to be here based on their preconceived notions, pre-reoccurrence of fumbling issues. 

It has nothing to do with draft status, that argument is utterly ridiculous knowing how often this team has started players over others with higher draft pedigrees. For God's sake, just the start of this season they had Phillips (UDFA) over Fuller (3rd rounder). Yet, I'm supposed to hear this chest thumping going on about how smart ES was and how stupid the team was for wanting Jones to succeed due to draft status? 

Some of you... just, wow. 

Anyway, I hope it still happens with Matt. Not going to kick the young man while he's down. 

Hopefully they continue to approach all of our young backs and whomever else they bring in here (hopefully through the draft) the same way they have been. 

They've went about it the right way, and I'm glad everyone here can be happy about it. 

Fat Rob has been nothing great so far and I've truly enjoyed watching and rooting for him and he's absolutely earned it - he's the best 1st/2nd down RB on our roster and I don't think it's close. 

Of course it looks great now in hindsight, no argument there. In fact, if Alfred were playing at the same level he did last year and were still here Fat Rob would still be the best back on this roster right now. That being said I will not apologize at all for banging my fist on the table and ranting that we didn't re-sign Alfred. Two years at less than $2M/yr. That was his deal in Dallas and it still blows my mind we didn't sign him. Free agency, so obviously pre-draft. I couldn't have cared less that we didn't draft a RB as much as I was more upset we didn't re-sign Alfred. You have a productive (even if not game changing) RB who has never missed a game and by letting him walk the only guys with any experience we had were Jones and Thompson. Thompson had not shown nearly as much in years past as he has this year and Jones obviously had flashed some potential but shown much more of his non productive self. BUT, the biggest issue is that both players on the roster were/are guys with huge injury red flags. No matter how good you are you can't make a difference if you can't play. And that was my issue. 

Of course it looks great now because Fat Rob looks great and so does Thompson but letting your known quantity walk for two injury plagued RB's and two practice-squad only guys (Brown and I think Silas Redd) pre draft is not the way I would have gone given the low cost it would have taken to keep Alfred. 

Now it looks great, you have potentially a very solid back in Fat Rob that's on a rookie contract and a great third down back also on a cheap contract in Thompson...and Jones there as well on a rookie contract. 

[TSO]

10 minutes ago, moondog said:

Of course it looks great now because Fat Rob looks great and so does Thompson but letting your known quantity walk for two injury plagued RB's and two practice-squad only guys (Brown and I think Silas Redd) pre draft is not the way I would have gone given the low cost it would have taken to keep Alfred. 

Now it looks great, you have potentially a very solid back in Fat Rob that's on a rookie contract and a great third down back also on a cheap contract in Thompson...and Jones there as well on a rookie contract. 

 

That's the problem, brother. It doesn't just "look great now". It's not just random luck. This is what you do at the RB position. This is the smart way to go about it. 

As much as it hurts to lose a guy like Alf... believe me, that's not easy for me, either. He was my favorite Redskin by far. I don't really even have favorites, but he was. But he had lost a step and had a ton of carries throughout college and while he was with us. RBs normally drop off considerably after that. You want to keep that position young and churning. It's the right thing to do the majority of the time, unless you have a truly elite guy.

You be patient and develop your young backs. That's what the team did. "It looks great now" because they went about it the right way, not because it just happened to work out fortunately.   

[Mr. Sinister]

5 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Rob is an extremely mature runner for his age. It's almost shocking to see the level of understanding he has regarding spacing and when/where to cut given his rookie status. 

Guys don't run like that early in their careers, it's usually the savvy vets who've lost a little in the way of their athleticism but make up for it with their experience and "feel". Guys like Frank Gore, Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. Le'veon Bell runs like that, too, though he got to that style very quickly himself and is a much 

All offseason I know for a fact a bunch of you in here were screaming for the team to address the RB position and were pissed we were going into the season with the group we had, including Kelley and Thompson. Stupid idiots not re-signing Alf! Pierre Thomas! Bring in any vet! Something! 

Now it's like you knew all along Rob would be great.  

Who are you talking about?

[TSO]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

Who are you talking about?

 

Really? I think it's best left unsaid. We have a policy not to call out or bait here, brother. You should know that. But you can go back to any of the offseason roster threads or preseason threads to see plenty of that discussion if you'd like.

I mean, do you think that wasn't the case?  

[Mr. Sinister]

7 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Really? I think it's best left unsaid. We have a policy not to call out or bait here, brother. You should know that. But you can go back to any of the offseason roster threads or preseason threads to see plenty of that discussion if you'd like.

I mean, do you think that wasn't the case?  

I think that acting like people were wrong to have doubts about the the position, is a bit much. Well maybe not unless you walk around with a crystal ball

 

 

[moondog]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

That's the problem, brother. It doesn't just "look great now". It's not just random luck. This is what you do at the RB position. This is the smart way to go about it. 

As much as it hurts to lose a guy like Alf... believe me, that's not easy for me, either. He was my favorite Redskin by far. I don't really even have favorites, but he was. But he had lost a step and had a ton of carries throughout college and while he was with us. RBs normally drop off considerably after that. You want to keep that position young and churning. It's the right thing to do the majority of the time, unless you have a truly elite guy.

You be patient and develop your young backs. That's what the team did. "It looks great now" because they went about it the right way, not because it just happened to work out fortunately.   

It's not random luck, you are right about that. But are you telling me you felt confident about our RB situation following the draft? With Thompson, Jones and Marshall being the guys expected to make the team and all having serious and legitimate injury concerns? I'm not arguing that young isn't the way to go, just that we most certainly had some serious luck in that Kelley has been this good, this early because clearly no one expected that given that he went undrafted. Alfred was/is not exactly old and I still think the right decision was to hold on to him, assuming that he would have signed for the same contract here as he did with Dallas.

It was the injury issues with the assumed starter and all three guys expected to make the team that had me on the table to keep Alfred and then to at least bring Pierre Thomas in to camp. Not sure if I was the one you were referring to but I absolutely had that opinion, again, mostly because of the injury concerns, but also because I had very little faith in Jones and so far I have been proven correct. I would love for him to show up as well, but at this point if he gets back on the field or steals carries from Kelley/Thompson I will be pissed because he hasn't earned it, Kelley has and I'm guessing by all the love from Cousins and the O-line, they wholeheartedly agree. 

I most certainly did not expect anything from Kelley until I saw him in preseason and even in his few carries in the regular season and then I started singing his praises. I never saw it coming but now that I have and my fears about Jones have been proven correct, I'm all for Kelley continuing with this pace count for the rest of the year. 

[TSO]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I think that acting like people were wrong to have doubts about the the position, is a bit much. Well maybe not unless you walk around with a crystal ball

 

Then you could've just said that.  

It's not about doubts or concerns. That's natural. I think I've made that pretty clear, actually, and I don't want words put in my mouth. There is a tonal issue here. An issue of the way things are too often expressed here. The problem is actually those who act like they do walk around with a crystal ball. It was essentially a fact to many here that the team was stupid the way they handled that position this offseason, so if you want to complain about crystal balls and stuff.... 

My point wasn't that I was smart to recognize what the team was doing at the position... but that I acknowledge my own lack of information and will qualify any statements I make with that understanding. Or, at the very least, attempt to understand the team's methodology. That's not saying they're always right, but that they aren't the bumbling idiots some seem all too willing to make them out to be in many instances.   

 

11 minutes ago, moondog said:

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

It's not random luck, you are right about that. But are you telling me you felt confident about our RB situation following the draft? With Thompson, Jones and Marshall being the guys expected to make the team and all having serious and legitimate injury concerns? I'm not arguing that young isn't the way to go, just that we most certainly had some serious luck in that Kelley has been this good, this early because clearly no one expected that given that he went undrafted. Alfred was/is not exactly old and I still think the right decision was to hold on to him, assuming that he would have signed for the same contract here as he did with Dallas.

 

Being completely honest? Yeah, I was totally okay with it. This isn't after-the-fact. I said it plenty of times this offseason. 

I really believed Matt would turn a corner and I loved his measurables from the start. I liked what Thompson brought as a 3rd down/change of pace back. And I liked that the organization was focusing on getting younger at the position in general, so I was excited about Marshall, Kelley and Brown for that matter (who had shown well the previous preseason himself).

As for the injury concerns, if the team felt they'd be able to stay healthy, I wasn't going to disagree. I'm not there in the weight rooms. I'm not seeing what those players are doing differently to stay healthy. The coaches are. The GM is. They're not just throwing darts, you know?  

[moondog]

3 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Being completely honest? Yeah, I was totally okay with it.

I really believed Matt would turn a corner and I loved his measurables from the start. I liked what Thompson brought as a 3rd down/change of pace back. And I liked that the organization was focusing on getting younger at the position in general, so I was excited about Marshall, Kelley and Brown for that matter (who had shown well the previous preseason himself).

As for the injury concerns, if the team felt they'd be able to stay healthy, I wasn't going to disagree. I'm not there in the weight rooms. I'm not seeing what those players are doing differently to stay healthy. The coaches are. The GM is. They're not just throwing darts, you know?  

You, my friend, are much more confident then me and fair enough. I did not share those sentiments. I wanted to believe the staff was seeing something in Jones I was not but it seems they were just hoping his skill set in shorts would translate and so far it hasn't. I've always been a fan of Thompson's skillset but his injury history in college and in the pros had me very concerned. Regardless, it has worked itself out and we have a few extra million dollars to roll into next year and Kirk's deal so all's well that ends well I suppose. So cheers mate, I don't think you were talking about me because I typically admit my mistakes and don't brag when I'm correct but don't hesitate to call me out if I'm being a dick on the message board lol!

[TSO]

2 minutes ago, moondog said:

So cheers mate, I don't think you were talking about me because I typically admit my mistakes and don't brag when I'm correct but don't hesitate to call me out if I'm being a dick on the message board lol!

 

No, I wasn't talking about you. You're absolutely right. Appreciate the discussion.  

It's not about me being confident. I guess I'm confident in this FO, and rightly so. People should be, as well. They've come a long way, have made a lot of sound decisions, and it seems many don't want to let go of the past here while putting past failures on people who weren't here for them. 

I mean, for God's sake... we're worried about them wearing Burgundy over Burgundy.

[Mr. Sinister]

2 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

It's not about doubts or concerns. I think I've made that pretty clear, actually. There is a tonal issue here. An issue of the way things are too often expressed here. The problem is actually those who act like they do walk around with one

Yet to me, in terms of tone, the same could apply to you, easily, as if you were the only one who believed in him (whether you said it or not).

At any rate, I think "tone" is subjective, and could mean something different to every person, which is why I still believe that, regardless of how you felt about people's tone, it was still born out of doubt.... Which I feel they had every reason to think that way.

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, moondog said:

It's not random luck, you are right about that. But are you telling me you felt confident about our RB situation following the draft? With Thompson, Jones and Marshall being the guys expected to make the team and all having serious and legitimate injury concerns? I'm not arguing that young isn't the way to go, just that we most certainly had some serious luck in that Kelley has been this good, this early because clearly no one expected that given that he went undrafted. Alfred was/is not exactly old and I still think the right decision was to hold on to him, assuming that he would have signed for the same contract here as he did with Dallas.

 

Several of you are missing the point. You see it as luck because in "your opinion", the situation did not look good. But the fact is you had not looked through 100s of hours of tape, interviewed guys (either yourself or people that work for you), talked to scouts who watched the games and then seen all they went through in OTAs and PS (neither have I, so not just saying you).

The FO researched the living **** out of these guys. Yes there is a little bit of luck. But it's work, research and numbers. That's why Scot wants all the picks he can get and then they clearly research UDFAs. So no, it's not "serious luck" that Kelley worked out. It was the result of a whole lot of work by scouting team, the FO, the coaching staff and Kelley himself. So while us fans did not see it as a good situation, the coaches saw it differently.

I heard so many times this summer that "There isn't an NFL RB on this team! We will suck!". The other big one was - "We are putting all our eggs in one basket with Jones! If he sucks, and he will, we are in serious trouble!" The only people talking Kelley were more because they did not like Jones than they really liked Kelley. Most people actually wanted Brown over Kelley!

Kelley working out is anything but just luck!

BTW: I did not see Kelley being this good either. I readily admit that. But I did trust that the FO and coaches knew more than me and if they felt good about where we were at RB, then I will give them the benefit of the doubt since all I saw were a few PS games.

Back to the TSO's main point - now there are a bunch of people saying they knew all along that Kelley was going to be very good. That's just not true. They just didn't like Jones and to quote many in here "At least give Kelley a chance. He may suck but at least then we know what we have because Jones is horrible."

[TSO]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Yet to me, in terms of tone, the same could apply to you, easily, as if you were the only one who believed in him (whether you said it or not).

At any rate, I think "tone" is subjective, and could mean something different to every person, which is why I still believe that, regardless of how you felt about people's tone, it was still born out of doubt.... Which I feel they had every reason to think that way.

 

I wasn't the only one. The team did. So, no, I'd disagree. I was just giving them more benefit of the doubt than others were willing to, that they saw potential others were unwilling to recognize. Still do, actually. What kind of tone is that other than one of humility and recognition that I'm not as "in the know" as they are? I mean, isn't that simply a fact?

Also, I disagree. Tone isn't always subjective. Whatever it's borne out of, there is a level of objectivity required for any discussion to be fruitful. And that's what we're all about here. We're also a Redskins message board for Redskin fans, the foundation of that fandom being to root for said team's success. This isn't a neutral place. So it's not at all crazy to expect people to not be so condescending or insulting when discussing said team, so long as it's not anything obvious or egregious on a player/coach's end. I mean, that would be the go to thing for opposing team fans looking to troll us. 

There is criticism and then there is bashing. They are not the same. It's surprising people get surprised here when one is looked down upon. Look around at the colors of this board (well, the non-gray ones), lol.     

But more pertaining to this topic... you're right. People had reasons to be concerned or doubtful. But that's not how they expressed it. You can disagree all you want about that, but I'm pretty comfortable with my reading comprehension on the matter.

[Mr. Sinister]

It's cool. You were just talking about the morons. Got it.

I was very displeased about the rb position over the spring summer, but Kelley and Brown showed promise in preseason. That promise was eventually gone as Brown was stashed, Kelley was buried, and we were left to suffer through Jones (who I was giving a chance, but did not know what to expect, really).

Kelley's decisiveness was immediate, even way back in the summer, and he is tough to tackle, and deceptively quick. All of that boded well for him down the road. 

Good to see he is making strides.

[illone]

Kelley seems like a better fit for this team than Matt Jones.  Be interested to see what they do with Jones down the stretch here because Rob needs to get the bulk of the carries.  

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Really? I think it's best left unsaid. We have a policy not to call out or bait here, brother. You should know that. But you can go back to any of the offseason roster threads or preseason threads to see plenty of that discussion if you'd like.

I mean, do you think that wasn't the case?  

Thanks for showing us exactly what baiting looks like, so we don't do it.

Do you really think cutting a super consistent, fan favorite in favor of going with 2 guys with an impressive injury history, who really haven't shown much, one of which fumbles like it's his job and an often injured 7th rounder who hadn't flashed since hs, an undrafted FB and a PS guy should have instilled confidence?

[Burgold]

I'll stick with what I said about Kelley above, but reading page 5 some of you are talking like he's lighting the NFL on fire. I don't see a UDFA gem. I see a good singles hitter, but not an Eddie George or John Riggins or future great. He's been much better than Jones, but I don't know yet that the future of the Redskins running back position is settled at all. He's been okay. Moving upwards from terrible to okay feels good and Kelley has room to improve still, but we need a larger sample size and not just consistency, but improvement before some of the elation I'm reading is deserved.

Maybe I'm underselling him, but I see a tough runner who's not making negative plays. I don't see solid not great. I'm okay with that. In fact, I'm glad of it, but chest thumping over his performances? I don't know about that.

[Koolblue13]

I agree Burg. I think he does all things well, that Jones didn't and that's what has everyone so excited.

If his ceiling is Morris, I think most of us would be satisfied.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

It's cool. You were just talking about the morons. Got it.

I was very displeased about the rb position over the spring summer, but Kelley and Brown showed promise in preseason. That promise was eventually gone as Brown was stashed, Kelley was buried, and we were left to suffer through Jones (who I was giving a chance, but did not know what to expect, really).

I had little faith in the running game before the season. I was solidly in "prove it to me" mode...in fact, on the prediction thread I picked the Skins to go 9-7, and I think one of the reasons I ended up giving on that thread for not doing better was that I was nowhere near sold on the running game being improved this season. Didn't mean it couldn't happen and I wasn't saying it wouldn't happen...just that we hadn't been given any realistic reason to believe it would (partly for the things you stated above).

Now, we need to see the run game overall maintain a consistency....not Kelly getting 150 yards one game and then 55-60 yards over the next two games.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I remember liking this signing at time after looking at a few YouTube clips, but I swear he looked more like a small quick back then.  But that move he made on the run up the middle, his "best run of the day" was sweet.  In a year and a half Matt Jones never made a guy miss like that.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Do you really think cutting a super consistent, fan favorite in favor of going with 2 guys with an impressive injury history, who really haven't shown much, one of which fumbles like it's his job and an often injured 7th rounder who hadn't flashed since hs, an undrafted FB and a PS guy should have instilled confidence?

 

I don't know how many times I need to explain this to not garner such questions, but I'm not answering it again. I've done it enough. 

Read my posts here. It's not about instilling total confidence or removing all doubt/concern.  

And "fan favorite" should objectively mean nothing regarding team building, it's silly you keep mentioning that as if that's the other player's fault or something. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I'll stick with what I said about Kelley above, but reading page 5 some of you are talking like he's lighting the NFL on fire. I don't see a UDFA gem. I see a good singles hitter, but not an Eddie George or John Riggins or future great. He's been much better than Jones, but I don't know yet that the future of the Redskins running back position is settled at all. He's been okay. Moving upwards from terrible to okay feels good and Kelley has room to improve still, but we need a larger sample size and not just consistency, but improvement before some of the elation I'm reading is deserved.

Maybe I'm underselling him, but I see a tough runner who's not making negative plays. I don't see solid not great. I'm okay with that. In fact, I'm glad of it, but chest thumping over his performances? I don't know about that.

 

I really don't see where anyone has said he is the next John Riggins or anywhere close. Why is it that if anyone's enjoys and discusses a players success - even if it's a very small sample size - someone has to submit this type of "reality check", when in fact no one is saying anything like that. C'mon, we are all much more realistic than that.

In the little bit of time that Kelley has played he has done a bit better than Jones - and as far as I can tell that is all anyone has said. We just need something of a running game to make this offense even better than it is. So it's exciting to see the possibilities of the team overall with a legit starting RB? But no one is trying to put him Canton or even saying he is a pro-bowler or even close just yet. 

What exactly is wrong with enjoying his little bit of success and what that could mean for the offense and the team?