Pass First, Run Second

[Red Cloud]

For ages I think the Redskins philosophy has been run first, pass second. Establish the run, and pass off the back of that, including play action. Along with that we used to have the "hold the ball, manage the clock" approach, aiming to keep our team on the field so long that the other team doesn't get to touch the ball.

But, if your running game isn't the best, and your pass is ranked 3rd, then it makes sense to pass first, run second. Basically, play to our strength first, not our weakness.

Arguably, there's no difference between the two strategies, both involve mixing up your play calling to keep the defence honest, and arguably both result in a 50/50 mix of run and pass. 

But, with our team the way it is, pass first opens up the running lanes. Run first just gets us in long yardage passing downs, which then hampers the passing game.

And going back to "hold the ball, manage the clock", this has become run three times and punt, it doesn't work for us. While I understand some situations call for running the ball to eat the clock, if you believe you can get first downs (which with our pass attack you should be able to do) then multiple first downs will chew more of the clock than three failed runs. Each new set of downs opens up at least one run play to chew the clock, and a completed pass chews as much clock as a run.

[kleese]

I was going to start a similar thread--- I actually think we are running TOO MUCH. By far the biggest strength on the team are our weapons in the passing game. I'd like to see the offense move a little faster in between plays and air it out even more. I don't think there is a defense in the league that can cover our guys-- and the OL is really solid at pass blocking. Every time we hand it off (even if it's a successful 4-5 yard gain) it is one less opportunity for a major playmakers to do their thing. We need to get the ball to those guys in space--- DJax, Crowder, Reed, Garçon, Thompson--- all great in the open field and Djax is still possibly the best pure deep threat in the NFL. 

I very much agree with the OP that we should use the run as a dagger once the defense is completely on their heels. 

So far this year I sometimes feel like we run the ball at times almost JUST so we can say we had "balance." 

The thing we aren't fooling people with our passing game. We don't need to scheme it in a manner that can get our guys open. We simply beat the defense physically with superior talent. Jordan Reed is borderline uncoverable. And he's damn near impossible to take down with one defensive back. 

Air it out. 

[Red Cloud]

I agree your point about tempo too, I made that comment in a separate thread about clock management.

I would like to see the offence picking up the tempo, both to keep the defence on their heels (and in some cases prevent substitutions), and to run more plays to give our weapons more chances to make plays. I think we still have a clock chewing mentality which is a throwback to ground & pound football that doesn't suit a pass attack with lots of weapons.

I also agree about not "running for the sake of it". I think it's good to keep the defence honest, but aiming for 50/50 is the wrong balance for this team, you'd get the same result from a 60/40 or even 70/30 pass/run split.

Regarding airing it out, was great to see two "bad" throws to D Jax against the Browns, neither succeeded but both got flags, so the net result was the same as a completion. If Jackson is one of the fastest in the league, you have to go deep to him at least twice in a game.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

When we threw more, we lost. When we ran more, we won.

I don't want to pass more, I want the passes we do attempt to be more dynamic and efficient.

[mexaskin]

While I agree with what you said I also believe that we have to show run to make passing successful.  We have to make teams respect what running game we have. Otherwise they are going to send blitzers more. Even when the run isn't working it has to relieve the pass rush. Otherwise the lbs for the opposing team will never be fooled. Jordan reed is our best weapon and mostly it's a linebackers job to stop him. It's also a linebackers job to stop runs from breaking big. If we pass too much it leads to more double and triple coverage on Reed and any other underneath routes imo. Also play action would be less successful which is another strength of our team. All in all the run game has to improve for any chance of the redskins elevating their ability to win games . Passing is our strength but it relies on us not being scared to run just because it isn't a strength. 

[TSO]

We've got to be able to run against teams when they drop 7-8 guys in soft coverage. It's that simple. The first two games the Steelers and Cowboys weren't respecting our ground game at all, and they were dropping 8 in hook zones and/or pattern matching zones all game.

The Steelers were really smart in that they'd show blitz but then drop back. Fooled us the entire game, we kept thinking "ok, they're coming this time", lol. 

I think we've seen more draws as a counter to that, and they've been effective.  

I'm glad we put some great runs on tape these past two games. I expect it to do wonders for our offense just like it did the last month of the season last year (or at least the idea that we will run the ball did). 

I'm interested to see what the Ravens come up with. They might be susceptible to play action in a big way. Or they might just trust their front to stop the run on their own. If it's the latter, and they succeed, could be a long day. 

[mossomo]

It looks like we are trying to force the run.  My $.02

[Koolblue13]

Last year we were 14th in rushing attempts. I expect to be in the same area, if not higher.

Especially with the run working so well.

If you can run the ball well, teams have to bring support. If they bring support, they can't double both Reed and DJax.

If you can't double both of those guys, you can't stop our offense.

We have to run the ball.

[SWFLSkins]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

When we threw more, we lost. When we ran more, we won.

I don't want to pass more, I want the passes we do attempt to be more dynamic and efficient.

 

But I would like to see us do some Gibbs calls, throw deep when they are expecting run on first down, run on 2nd down, then throw. We seem so predictable at times, and when we are not it usually works. 

5 hours ago, mossomo said:

It looks like we are trying to force the run.  My $.02

 

To an extent to establish the run you have to force it, and be patient with it. But you can also supplement the run with screens, sweeps and etc. 

[SWFLSkins]

The effect? 

 

JP Finlay ‏@JPFinlayCSN  1m1 minute ago

Coincidence or not, #Redskins 2-0 w Sean McVay calling plays from the coaches booth http://buff.ly/2cOn4kE  #RedskinsTalk

[Gregpeck99]

Just like a stock/bond portfolio ... 60/40 is the way to go!

[TradeTheBeal!]

Jones is a load and our O-line is pretty effective in the trenches.  20 carries should be his target every game.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

But I would like to see us do some Gibbs calls, throw deep when they are expecting run on first down, run on 2nd down, then throw. We seem so predictable at times, and when we are not it usually works.

Absolutely my thought as well...

[Koolblue13]

Two weeks ago "run the damn ball"

This week "throw the damn ball"

I wonder where we'll be in two weeks.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Two weeks ago "run the damn ball"

This week "throw the damn ball"

I wonder where we'll be in two weeks.

"Throw the damn ball on the run"?

[Voice_of_Reason]

Run when they expect pass, pass when they expect run.

Win the chess game.  

There have been games (thank God not this year), where the 'Skins ran on 90% of first downs.  So freaking predictable.  (Also, for an average of 1.8 yards, or something, which wasn't good).

Also, if they're going to come out and drop 8 and rush 3, especially in the red zone, have some runs that are ready for that. 

If a team is playing the pass, you've got to run them into playing straight up.  If they're stacking the box, you pass them out of it.  It's like football strategy from 1969 from Lombardi.  It will never change.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Two weeks ago "run the damn ball"

This week "throw the damn ball"

I wonder where we'll be in two weeks.

 

"Run the football!" ~ Me for the last 35 years.

[CurseReversed]

Now that Mcvay is in the booth, can he talk into kirks helmet at anytime while he is on the sidelines?   I heard someone saying that they saw Kirk alone on the bench a lot last game.  I wonder if he is sitting there listening to the voices in his head.

[PortisBetts]

Run the damn ball. Run it, run it, then run it again. Set the tone, let them know we are running, then throw the damn ball over their heads with Crowder, Jackson deep, Reed intermediate. Running the ball is key to opening our pass game and it is key to keeping our own awful defense off the damn field.

[Rattlesnake88]

We had success on nearly every running play this past Sunday. I thought we didn't run enough. Their run defense was just as bad as ours and we should have punished them even further for it. This would have set up play action and threw off game planning for our team even further. "Take what the defense gives you", if they can't stop the run make them prove they can. Don't start passing just cause it's "our identity".

[Burgold]

10 hours ago, mexaskin said:

While I agree with what you said I also believe that we have to show run to make passing successful.  We have to make teams respect what running game we have.

This is what drives me nuts about being 3rd and one in shotgun formation or worse... shotgun formation with an empty background. The D doesn't even have to pretend to honor the run.

I've seen us do this way too often.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There have been games (thank God not this year), where the 'Skins ran on 90% of first downs.  So freaking predictable.  (Also, for an average of 1.8 yards, or something, which wasn't good).

You must've been so excited to see this thread. 

I've been a big proponent of running an uptempo/4WR offense with Kirk.  However, I think it's important for us right now to really commit to the ground game.  With the young beef up front, we should make every effort to give them/MJones some much needed confidence.  To me, this also means running into an 8 man box on occasion.  We have no respect at the LOS right now, and I think we need to embrace a more physical style.  

I think our balance has been much improved the last two games.  I hope it continues.

[skinny21]

Successfully running the ball makes this offense better - PA works better, the defense wears down faster, Kirk has less pressure on him and the olinemen get to attack.  Last year we tried to force the issue.  In the first two games (and much of the Giants game) we barely tried to run.  

I'm not so worried about balance or a certain percentage of run/pass, but I'd like to see the unpredictability that others have mentioned.  Before the Browns game I mentioned that teams have seen our tendency to be pass heavy and that could help us.  Browns were ranked pretty high vs the run until last Sunday.  

Anyway, run on 1st, draw play on 2nd one series, then PA pass followed by PA pass the next, for example.  Switch up how you run and pass (spread and tight formations), how often you consecutively run/pass, which down and distances you run/pass, which defense you run/pass against (zone/man looks).  We'll absolutely get stuffed at times, but keep defense's guessing.  Pretty demoralizing for a defense when they start doubting themselves (and the coaching/playcalling).

 

Stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty fun to see that we're (easily) top 10 in ypa both running and passing... 

[TheGreek1973]

29 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

We had success on nearly every running play this past Sunday. I thought we didn't run enough. Their run defense was just as bad as ours and we should have punished them even further for it. This would have set up play action and threw off game planning for our team even further. "Take what the defense gives you", if they can't stop the run make them prove they can. Don't start passing just cause it's "our identity".

The interesting thing is, Jones left a lot of yards on the field with his first 8 runs or so.  He needs to see the holes better.

[MartinC]

In 2015 Cousins had a passer rating of 129.1 off play action.

Running sets up play action.

Running also forces defense out of soft zone looks and dicatates coverage making reads easier and gives you the ability to create favourable match ups.

You don't want to be too predictable and I'm fine with passing more on first down once you have forced the defense to respect your ability and willingness to run in those situations.

I'd also add we want our defense on the bench as much as possible - its when they are at their best! Running the ball and controlling the clock and time of possession is something you need to be aware of in play calling.