2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

No, it says more about drafting a 1st/2nd round Tackle in Moses in the 3rd round the year before, and letting him sit for a year as he was raw.  And it says always take the better player REGARDLESS of position, because by your reasoning the Giants had a better pick with Flowers.  Except they didnt, because hes horrible, and they hate him.  But gee, hes a tackle that was drafted later in the first round.  We should have taken him huh?

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Are you kinda drunk?

 

 

Scot, is that you? Can you please come back?

Purdy Please?

 

[saltydog75]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

That hasn't happened yet, and this isn't even a good QB class. Next year looks to be much better. We absolutely do NOT have to do it, and when you went and based how important positions are on just how WE pay them (because, it's not like we're a model franchise in any way, shape, or form) you don't have a huge amount of credibility with that model in the first place.

 

That being said, if you are dumb enough to loose Kirk next year, you draft one in the first round, which is a better class anyway.

 

Also, we don't use DT's in our base 3-4, so either you don't understand how we use our DE's when we go to a 4-3, or forgot, you forgot a gaping hole in the defense. And no, they are not interchangable.

 

Your argument is based on a perceived truth that is not, and position importance based on salary, by a team that has been very bad at that for years.

 

Not convincing.

 

Tell that to Dallas, and tell me how that worked out.

 

Not sure what you're talking about re: the dollar figures.  Those are league-wide salary cap numbers (edit: I meant franchise tag numbers), not what the Redskins are paying.  You really can't argue with them.  They're based on what teams are actually paying for those positions in the market.  And it's basically common sense.  It's a passing league.  You need to have a QB, a line that can protect him, and a defense that can attack the QB.  Those are the positions that get paid.

 

RE: waiting until 2018, sure, that's an option, but it's risky.  The 'Skins should be pretty good in 2017, so you're talking about picking in the back half of the draft, and almost surely not at the very top.  If I were a bad team like the Browns, 49ers, or Jets, I could see waiting for 2018.  For us... it's a roll of the dice.  If there's someone you like in this draft, you're a year ahead.  I'm not averse to that strategy, but it's pretty risky.  Maybe I don't draft a QB with 17, but I think I have to get one high-ish in the draft. 

 

RE: DTs, I'm just listing the college position.  Those guys would likely be DEs for us.  It's all up in the air with Manusky.  I'd just call them DL and figure it out later.

 

RE: Elliott, go look at the stats.  In 2015, with mostly terrible QB play, the Cowboys averaged 4.6 yards per rush.  2016: 4.8 yards per rush.  Elliott was 5.1 yds/rush.  His huge rushing yards total was basically a result of usage rate.  A 28 y/o Darren McFadden had the most carries (239) in 2015.  Elliott had 322 in 2016.  The difference is attributable to both that and a year of solid QB play.  It's the line and the QB, not Elliott, that makes the run game work.  He's a great player, but he's running behind an elite OL and had great QB play.  Those make his job a lot easier than it would be in, say, Jacksonville. 

 

History proves the "don't draft a RB in the first round" to be wise.  Go look at franchises that have been successful over the past decade.  The common thread is spending almost all first round picks on the secondary, OL, DL, and LBs.  Occasionally they'll grab a WR and less often a RB, but mostly it's building the infrastructure.  

 

For those reasons, this is a great draft not to chase the latest trend.  You'll see a bunch of teams go for Fournette/Cook/McCaffrey thinking they can be the Cowboys of 2017.  Much better to wait and let the DB/OL/DL/LB fall to us.

 

I think that data supports my original posts.

56 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Next year is a better draft for QB's.....I would look at a QB this year, but not in the first 3 rounds.

 

It's tempting.  The problem comes when there's a run on them.  It seems like 2017 is a weird confluence of factors.  You have a number of teams with terrible QBs looking for a franchise QB.  You also have a number of teams with good, but aging, QBs who are looking for the heir to the empire.  I really think we're going to see a ton of QBs going in the first 3 rounds for that reason.  It'd be nice if we could wait until the 4th or lower, but if there's a guy you like, and QBs are going fast, sometimes that isn't an option.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, CTskin said:

Look at Jameis and Cam (aside from being bipolar). Both had huge question marks regarding their off-the-field decision making, but we haven't heard a peep about either since they became pros. 

 

My issue with Cook is the fumblitits disease; he has a severe case. It surprises me how many Skins fans look past that after dealing with Matt Jones the last couple years. Rob Kelly is the second coming of Alf, perfect for the system and I see a RB at #17 being more of a luxury pick. It depends on who's available, but if real needs can be addressed, I'd prefer to go in that direction.

 

Speaking of a guy with fumble problems, Alfred Morris had major fumbling issues in college. He mostly overcame it.   Adrian Peterson fumbles a lot but he's so prolific it gets glossed over.   

 

I think we have Matt Jones cemented maybe too much as the prototype fumbler and frame things from that context.  The problem with Jones IMO is he isn't productive enough to get away with fumbling problems.  It's not that he's killer good but too bad he ruins it with fumbles.  He's inconsistent as a runner, nothing IMO spectacular (he has moments) and he fumbles.   And I think you can coach running backs up on fumbling.  Most of the time its them being careless with the ball -- with Cook if I recall some of his fumbles didn't even involve contact.  I had my concerns about Jones when the problem surfaced in his rookie year and he denied he had a problem with fumbles.   Cook strikes me ultra-competitive so he might work his way to overcome that problem. 

 

Nonetheless, If Dalvin Cook rushes for 1765 yards, and receives 450 plus yards -- I don't think people will be bemoaning 4 lost fumbles like he had at FSU.   Cook only had two lost fumbles the prior year.  We got some people here saying no to Cook but Mixon makes sense.  Well, Mixon has fumbling issues, too.  The article I posted awhile ago about running backs with red flags as for fumbles -- Mixon was close to tied statistically to Cook in that regard.   They actually have a lot of company in this draft with others with fumbling problems including:  Kamara, Foreman, Samuel, McNichols, Mack, etc.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just stumbled on this from MMQB and to preface my point again everything being equal I don't want to go with either McCaffrey or Cook at #17.  Don't know if they even make it to #17 -- my point is if that's what they ultimately do, I wouldn't be unhappy.  Jay knows offense so if he falls for any of these running backs, I'd be jazzed.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/04/nfl-draft-best-running-backs-2014-leonard-fournette-ezekiel-elliott-dalvin-cook-tre-mason-christian

I asked an evaluator from an NFL team to check his final grades on recent top running back prospects, dating back to 2014, and then factor in the 2017 class. (Confession: This is not my idea. Robert Klemko conducted this exercise two years ago with quarterbacks, when Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston were the top QB prospects.)

 

Here, then, is Team X’s Top 15 running back prospects since 2014:

1. Ezekiel Elliott, Ohio State (2016)
2. Leonard Fournette, LSU (2017)
3. Dalvin Cook, Florida State (2017)
4. Todd Gurley, Georgia (2015)
5. Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin (2015)
6. Joe Mixon, Oklahoma (2017)
7. Derrick Henry, Alabama (2016)
8. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State (2014)
9. Alvin Kamara, Tennessee (2017)
10. Christian McCaffrey, Stanford (2017)
11. Tre Mason, Auburn (2014)
12. Jeremy Hill, LSU (2014)
13. Jordan Howard, Indiana (2016)
14. Tevin Coleman, Indiana (2015)
15. D’Onta Foreman, Texas (2017)

In the interest of debate, here is the evaluator’s view on the top of the list:

SCOUT X: First, I think it’s important for your readers to remember that running back can be a subjective evaluation. You might think it’s more straightforward than quarterback, where there are thousands of variables, but there’s a lot take in with running back also. You need to consider scheme fit, versatility, wear-and-tear, medicals, workload and, of course, everything off the field.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me on Cook, I don't need PFF to judge him.  I just added that for those who are interested.  I watched Cook more than any prospect in this draft by far -- saw my share of FSU games.   He ran for almost 1800 yards last season and caught for almost an additional 500 yards. Those are some insane numbers.   And he is to me the most fun watch among RBs -- he can take almost any run to the house.  I can't recall the last time the Redskins had a RB that explosive.  Portis was fast but not Cook level explosive.  Granted, will see if Cook is as explosive in the NFL but if he's in the same ball park -- he will be a one man highlight reel.   Plus Portis didn't have great hands.  Cook does.  Jay could go nuts with screens, wheel routes, etc.  Cook was FSU's 2nd most prolific receiver last year.

 

He's not my top pick at #17 in part because I think Kamara mirrors those same skills and can likely be had in the 2nd round.   Plus I want defense first and foremost.   But I'd dig it if he's the pick.   My main fear about Cook is he ends up in Philly.  A lot of buzz about him going there including B. Westbrook publicly touting that the Eagles should draft him.  We have enough problems stopping the run -- I'd rather not see him in our division. 

 

The character stuff I've delved into more -- I am not that concerned about it.  The stuff that worries me are drug problems, being tough to coach, being bad in locker rooms and having a poor work ethic.  Dalvin from what I've read not only doesn't have those as problems but is known for being a workaholic and its tough to get him off the field no matter how banged up he is. 

 

Hmm, he's dinged a lot for his history of injuries.  But you mention that these injuries never really keep him off the field or affect his production.  So that's something.

 

If memory serves, Portis used to be more explosive, I think he was around 205 in Denver, but gained weight upon request up to 220ish with us?  I just had a good idea, here's a highlight tape of Portis back in college.  Compare how he moves, his explosion, etc with Dalvin Cook.  Do you think this lighter version of Portis is less or more explosive than Cook?

 

 

 

Kamara is hard to gauge.  He spent most of his time there as a 3rd down back who operated out of shotgun in a spread offense.  We didn't see a whole lot to help see what translates to the Pro game.

 

If we had Kirk Cousins locked up long term, then I'd be happier drafting a RB.  Without that security, and knowing how some RB's have a short shelf life, by the time we get that "next guy" any RB starting for us now may be heading out the door when that "next guy" gets into the swing of things.

[Morneblade]

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

 

Not sure what you're talking about re: the dollar figures.  Those are league-wide salary cap numbers (edit: I meant franchise tag numbers), not what the Redskins are paying.  You really can't argue with them.  They're based on what teams are actually paying for those positions in the market.  And it's basically common sense.  It's a passing league.  You need to have a QB, a line that can protect him, and a defense that can attack the QB.  Those are the positions that get paid.

 

I'm glad you cleared that up, thanks. I thought you were going off what the Redskins were doing, since you pointed out the Franchise Tag money for Kirk.

 

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

 

RE: waiting until 2018, sure, that's an option, but it's risky.  The 'Skins should be pretty good in 2017, so you're talking about picking in the back half of the draft, and almost surely not at the very top.  If I were a bad team like the Browns, 49ers, or Jets, I could see waiting for 2018.  For us... it's a roll of the dice.  If there's someone you like in this draft, you're a year ahead.  I'm not averse to that strategy, but it's pretty risky.  Maybe I don't draft a QB with 17, but I think I have to get one high-ish in the draft. 

 

2017 is not? Reaching for a QB, that you may or may not even need in a pretty average QB class is REALLY risky IMO.

Besides, Allen has suggested using the Transitional Tag in 2018 if a LTD doesn't get done this year.

 

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

 

RE: DTs, I'm just listing the college position.  Those guys would likely be DEs for us.  It's all up in the air with Manusky.  I'd just call them DL and figure it out later.

 

So, where does NT factor in? You still have not bothered with that.

 

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

 

RE: Elliott, go look at the stats.  In 2015, with mostly terrible QB play, the Cowboys averaged 4.6 yards per rush.  2016: 4.8 yards per rush.  Elliott was 5.1 yds/rush.  His huge rushing yards total was basically a result of usage rate.  A 28 y/o Darren McFadden had the most carries (239) in 2015.  Elliott had 322 in 2016.  The difference is attributable to both that and a year of solid QB play.  It's the line and the QB, not Elliott, that makes the run game work.  He's a great player, but he's running behind an elite OL and had great QB play.  Those make his job a lot easier than it would be in, say, Jacksonville. 

 

I'd say it was the other way Around. Dak benefited MUCH more than Zak did. Dak was very underwhelming and all he really had to do was throw safe passes and hand the ball off. He was not required to do much. When he had to put the team on his back, he failed. And yes, the OL is very good, something that not only benefits Zak, but Dak as well.

 

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

History proves the "don't draft a RB in the first round" to be wise.  Go look at franchises that have been successful over the past decade.  The common thread is spending almost all first round picks on the secondary, OL, DL, and LBs.  Occasionally they'll grab a WR and less often a RB, but mostly it's building the infrastructure.  

 

For those reasons, this is a great draft not to chase the latest trend.  You'll see a bunch of teams go for Fournette/Cook/McCaffrey thinking they can be the Cowboys of 2017.  Much better to wait and let the DB/OL/DL/LB fall to us.

 

I think you have me confused with people who what to take a RB @ #17. Because I'm not that guy. I was pointed out what you said had flaws. I'm down for DE, OLB, ILB, G, CB, of S at #1. Highest I would go this year for a RB is 2nd round, and I'm hoping Kamara is still there for us, and that's the only one. Maybe Mixon in the 3rd, but I honestly don't like him.

 

However, if Fournette fell to us, I'd take him. He's a monster. It might be a passing league, but if you can't run or stop the run, you're gonna be toast.

 

46 minutes ago, saltydog75 said:

 

I think that data supports my original posts.

 

It's tempting.  The problem comes when there's a run on them.  It seems like 2017 is a weird confluence of factors.  You have a number of teams with terrible QBs looking for a franchise QB.  You also have a number of teams with good, but aging, QBs who are looking for the heir to the empire.  I really think we're going to see a ton of QBs going in the first 3 rounds for that reason.  It'd be nice if we could wait until the 4th or lower, but if there's a guy you like, and QBs are going fast, sometimes that isn't an option.

 

I would not bother with a QB in the 1st/2nd round this year, no matter what happens. There is basically zero chance Kirk is not here in 2018 due to either a LTD or the Transitional tag. Worse case, you tag him in 2018, draft a qb in the 1st and have him sit for a year and learn. You loose Kirk in 2019, but you have you're guy a year in the system and getting first team reps in the offseason. And that's worse case.

[HTTRDynasty]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think we have Matt Jones cemented maybe too much as the prototype fumbler and frame things from that context.  The problem with Jones IMO is he isn't productive enough to get away with fumbling problems.  It's not that he's killer good but too bad he ruins it with fumbles.  He's inconsistent as a runner, nothing IMO spectacular (he has moments) and he fumbles.   And I think you can coach running backs up on fumbling.  Most of the time its them being careless with the ball -- with Cook if I recall some of his fumbles didn't even involve contact.  I had my concerns about Jones when the problem surfaced in his rookie year and he denied he had a problem with fumbles.   Cook strikes me ultra-competitive so he might work his way to overcome that problem. 

 

 

The problem with Matt Jones, and the reason he is always going to have fumbling issues, is the fact that he has tiny hands for his size.  He tied Ameer Abdullah for having the second smallest hands in the 2015 RB class at 8 5/8 inches - Abdullah is 5'9 205, Jones is 6'2" 231.  Expecting Jones to be our workhorse, running between the tackles and trying to shrug off hands swiping at the ball, without expecting significant fumbling issues, was always a mistake IMO.  No matter how much he worked on it in the offseason, he was never going to become less prone to fumbling.  That was probably the only McCloughan pick I can point to that I hated at the time and still hate now.  Measurables matter in this league, and I think he ignored one of the most important measurables (hand size) for RBs when it came to the Jones pick.

 

Dalvin Cook has 9 1/4 inch hands at 5'10", 210 pounds, so hand size isn't going to be a big impediment to him cutting down on his fumbling issues.  I don't think people should point to Jones when discussing Cook.  If Cook improves his technique when he runs (i.e. keeping the ball high at all times), he should be okay when it comes to protecting the ball throughout his pro career.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Hmm, he's dinged a lot for his history of injuries.  But you mention that these injuries never really keep him off the field or affect his production.  So that's something.

 

If memory serves, Portis used to be more explosive, I think he was around 205 in Denver, but gained weight upon request up to 220ish with us?  I just had a good idea, here's a highlight tape of Portis back in college.  Compare how he moves, his explosion, etc with Dalvin Cook.  Do you think this lighter version of Portis is less or more explosive than Cook.

 

Kamara is hard to gauge.  He spent most of his time there as a 3rd down back who operated out of shotgun in a spread offense.  We didn't see a whole lot to help see what translates to the Pro game.

 

 

As for whether we draft a running back or not -- I really wouldn't care.  I prefer defense.  But running back to me is intriguing.  

 

As for judging Portis versus Cook based on highlight films -- its hard for me to gauge.  They seem to be in the same ball park. Maybe a hair of an edge to Cook but really hard to tell.  And I am using Portis by the way as a high water mark.  IMO he's the best running back we've had since Riggo.    I think some sleep on Cook as a passing weapon.  In this highlight reel, he catches about a 40 yard pass seamlessly.   I've seen him do this in other games.  He's not just a screen guy when it comes to the passing game.  Jay could be really creative with him -- as he could with McCaffrey or Kamara.

 

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for whether we draft a running back or not -- I really wouldn't care.  I prefer defense.  But running back to me is intriguing.  

 

As for judging Portis versus Cook based on highlight films -- its hard for me to gauge.  They seem to be in the same ball park. Maybe a hair of an edge to Cook but really hard to tell.  And I am using Portis by the way as a high water mark.  IMO he's the best running back we've had since Riggo.    I think some sleep on Cook as a passing weapon.  In this highlight reel, he catches about a 40 yard pass seamlessly.   I've seen him do this in other games.  He's not just a screen guy when it comes to the passing game.  Jay could be really creative with him -- as he could with McCaffrey or Kamara.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Portis was faster and I think might have had better vision, but it's close. Cook is stronger and a better receiver.  I think Portis was up against tougher opponents though, so I don't know how huge of an impact Cook will have. Cook doesn't have blazing speed, and isn't going to break as many tackles at the NFL level as he is used to. Both are really nasty though. After going back and forth (and probably not done on that just yet) with the character "issues", I don't think I'll hit a wall and break my hand if we take him @17.

 

I will with McCaffery, I think he's really overrated.

[saltydog75]

Well, not drafting a QB in 2017 would help everywhere else, obviously. If you keep Cousins in 2018 via the transition tag, I'm OK with not drafting a QB this year.  It just seems outlandish they'd do it. If you're going to pay Kirk $35 million in 2018 or whatever it is, why not spend the extra $50 million and lock him up already?

 

RE: the NT thing, there wasn't one that jumped out when I was making picks. And I think that illustrates why I don't like the 3-4. It's so dependant on finding that huge space eater. I think the Seattle style defense, with three big guys on the DL plus the LEO, is better suited to the supply of players. It's much easier to find several guys that are, say, 6'4" 320 than one guy who's Vince Wilfork sized but agile enough to play NT. There just aren't that many enormous but athletic humans. 

 

Anyway, good talk. It all illustrates how ridiculous the Skins are for not locking Kirk up, no matter what it costs. Once you do that, the draft becomes clear. When you don't know how long he'll be here, it's a guessing game. 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, saltydog75 said:

Well, not drafting a QB in 2017 would help everywhere else, obviously. If you keep Cousins in 2018 via the transition tag, I'm OK with not drafting a QB this year.  It just seems outlandish they'd do it. If you're going to pay Kirk $35 million in 2018 or whatever it is, why not spend the extra $50 million and lock him up already?

 

Not to nitpick, but the Transition tag is $28 million and change (Franchise is $35 million). But I completely agree. Over 3 years if we go that route, we'll have paid a guaranteed $71 million dollars+. That's insane. That's almost what we could have done with a 5 year deal. We are in complete agreement on this!

 

1 minute ago, saltydog75 said:

 

RE: the NT thing, there wasn't one that jumped out when I was making picks. And I think that illustrates why I don't like the 3-4. It's so dependant on finding that huge space eater. I think the Seattle style defense, with three big guys on the DL plus the LEO, is better suited to the supply of players. It's much easier to find several guys that are, say, 6'4" 320 than one guy who's Vince Wilfork sized but agile enough to play NT. There just aren't that many enormous but athletic humans. 

 

I 100% agree with this as well. It's the big reason I don't like the system, because you NEED one, and it's very hard to find one. It's still pretty hard to find guys that are 320 and can move, but guys like Wilfork are almost Unicorns in rarity.

 

1 minute ago, saltydog75 said:

 

Anyway, good talk. It all illustrates how ridiculous the Skins are for not locking Kirk up, no matter what it costs. Once you do that, the draft becomes clear. When you don't know how long he'll be here, it's a guessing game. 

 

Yep, and it's one I think neither one of us would be in. Have him locked up and worry about everything else. Cheers!

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Portis was faster and I think might have had better vision, but it's close. Cook is stronger and a better receiver.  I think Portis was up against tougher opponents though, so I don't know how huge of an impact Cook will have. Cook doesn't have blazing speed, and isn't going to break as many tackles at the NFL level as he is used to. Both are really nasty though. After going back and forth (and probably not done on that just yet) with the character "issues", I don't think I'll hit a wall and break my hand if we take him @17.

 

I will with McCaffery, I think he's really overrated.

 

Running in the 4.4s in his pro day makes him plenty fast enough.  Using Crowder as an example, he's not crazy fast but he's explosive and quick.  Cook is fast (not insanely fast though) and is quick and shifty.

 

I posted about some of Cook's character issues myself on the board but reading more about them -- i am not that concerned.  Everything being equal, I am big into players with high motors and are tough and relentless workers -- Cook is described as all of that.

 

I am still on Reddick as my pick at #17.   Cooley was going on about what he'd like them to do and he highlight pass rusher among (D line, nickel corner and running back) as what in his mind are their top needs.  Cooley's been skirting the edges over the years on criticizing Kerrigan -- but he took it up a notch today by flat out saying more or less Kerrigan isn't an impactful enough pass rusher and they need more.  In another segment previously, Cooley said he thought Murphy was a better pass rusher than Kerrigan.

 

Malik McDowell is intriguing but his red flags do bug me.  I haven't really studied him much but listening to draft geeks gush and gush about his ability, including a guy just now on 106.7 -- he's tough to ignore.  When I watched him he seemed to play mostly end and 1 technique.   Cook's stuff is being a bit of a knucklehead off the field -- but on the field he seems to be all business.  With McDowell the stuff I've read indicates he's not the most likable and coachable player and he has the tendency to loaf. 

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Running in the 4.4s in his pro day makes him plenty fast enough.  Using Crowder as an example, he's not crazy fast but he's explosive and quick.  Cook is fast (not insanely fast though) and is quick and shifty.

 

I'm not saying he is slow, but Portis ran a 4.35 at 205 pounds. He's faster. Both were/are very quick

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I posted about some of Cook's character issues myself on the board but reading more about them -- i am not that concerned.  Everything being equal, I am big into players with high motors and are tough and relentless workers -- Cook is described as all of that.

 

Agreed about the work ethic. And some of the issues are the people he hangs with. That can be good, but that can be really bad too. It will be interesting to see if he looses them.

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am still on Reddick as my pick at #17.   Cooley was going on about what he'd like them to do and he highlight pass rusher among (D line, nickel corner and running back) as what in his mind are their top needs.  Cooley's been skirting the edges over the years on criticizing Kerrigan -- but he took it up a notch today by flat out saying more or less Kerrigan isn't an impactful enough pass rusher and they need more.  In another segment previously, Cooley said he thought Murphy was a better pass rusher than Kerrigan.

 

We do need more pass rushing, absolutely. And I think Kerrigan is fine (i'd like him to be better at run D if anything) because you kinda want the QB blind side to be your premier rusher. It's supposed to have been Galette for the last 2 years, and Orakpo before him. And it has not materialized. Kerrigan getting 12-13 sacks a year with no help from the right side of the line is pretty decent, actually IMO.

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Malik McDowell is intriguing but his red flags do bug me.  I haven't really studied him much but listening to draft geeks gush and gush about his ability, including a guy just now on 106.7 -- he's tough to ignore.  When I watched him he seemed to play mostly end and 1 technique.   Cook's stuff is being a bit of a knucklehead off the field -- but on the field he seems to be all business.  With McDowell the stuff I've read indicates he's not the most likable and coachable player and he has the tendency to loaf. 

 

Yeah, and that's a problem. Guys like that at the NFL level rarely get their heads on right. They have gotten away with half-assing it and don't know how to work. I would not waste a high pick on him, because it's a complete craphoot.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:25 PM, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

no way...not in the 1st round.....I like Desmond King in the 2nd or 3rd round

 

I'm a big fan of king, big time instincts!!

[Koolblue13]

I think McDowell will ball out for 4 years and blow peoples minds from the Dline. Hes hands down the best big man, behind Garrett. I really do think hes Haynesworth 2.0. Someone who didnt draft him will give him a monster contract and that'll be it. However, you can't discount what he does in the first 4 years. He was a lock for a top 5 pick to enter the year, was used wrong and injured and is still a top 10 talent that might slip out of day one. 

 

I don't know the whys of why exactly his teammates domt like him or his family. He doesn't sound like a guy who'll get in trouble off the field.

 

As far as RB goes, I was never high on the position and definitely not Cook. He's getting hailed as this years Zeke and hes not. I like Kelley for what he is and think 3rd down back is more of an issue, but CT is solid now. Gruden does like the run game, despite what most people think. He also likes switching up backs and using the entire stable. You dont use a first on a back like that.

 

As for our first, I still think McDowell is in the pole, but PRer and CB are the top two targets. Maybe if Breeland was using the off-season to work on his game, instead of embarrassing himself trying to fight people on twitter I'd have a little more confidence. What a disappointment. 

[Peregrine]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Are you kinda drunk?

Said by the guy who thinks PR and CB are our two top draft needs

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Said by the guy who thinks PR and CB are our two top draft needs

Thats what i think we do.

 

Pretty sure we trade back first.

[Hail2theSkins24]

By PR you mean pass rusher I assume? And I completely agree. Regarding McDowell, he's such a boom or bust it scares me at 17

[Conn]

I've kind of come to terms with the fact that we won't take advantage of the top of this studly TE class, due to our investments in Reed and VD, rightly or wrongly. 

 

But a guy I'd love to grab in the 4th or 5th as a developmental guy who can block his ass off right away is George Kittle from Iowa. He's not quite as bulky as I'd like from an in-line blocking TE but he can grow into it in the NFL, and he's really a freak athletically considering he's mostly known for his blocking, so he could develop into a better receiver. He ran a 4.55 40 and a 6.57 3-cone. Dude is athletic as hell and hugely underutilized in college on a bad passing team. 

 

He's the kind of guy who could fall, despite filling an obvious need for teams as a blocking TE, because of the depth of the class. Maybe we can scoop him up later.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I've kind of come to terms with the fact that we won't take advantage of the top of this studly TE class, due to our investments in Reed and VD, rightly or wrongly. 

 

But a guy I'd love to grab in the 4th or 5th as a developmental guy who can block his ass of right away is George Kittle from Iowa. He's not quite as bulky as I'd like from an in-line blocking TE but he can grow into it in the NFL, and he's really a freak athletically considering he's mostly known for his blocking, so he could develop into a better receiver. He ran a 4.55 40 and a 6.57 3-cone. Dude is athletic as hell and hugely underutilized in college on a bad passing team. 

 

He's the kind of guy who could fall, despite filling an obvious need for teams as a blocking TE, because of the depth of the class. Maybe we can scoop him up later.

 

I'm REALLY intrigued by George Kittle.  Some of his blocking tape is Brandon Scherff levels of ridiculuously nasty.  That's the difference between a technical blocker like Vernon Davis who doesn't get into his man so his man can disengage and chase immediately, and someone like Kittle who his man has to fight him off, regain balance, and then chase.

 

Like...Kittle's metrics should make him a 1st round prospect at Edge.

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think McDowell will ball out for 4 years and blow peoples minds from the Dline. Hes hands down the best big man, behind Garrett. I really do think hes Haynesworth 2.0. Someone who didnt draft him will give him a monster contract and that'll be it. However, you can't discount what he does in the first 4 years. He was a lock for a top 5 pick to enter the year, was used wrong and injured and is still a top 10 talent that might slip out of day one. 

 

I've seen the Haynesworth  comparison a lot. As a person with 2 teams I really follow, and being from Knoxville, you can probably guess the team that is not the Redskins. Haynesworth didn't have the negative press while at UT.  He wasn't a malcontent or a guy that didn't play hard. As for McDowell, I don't know if he even knows how to work hard. He's never had to, and has gotten away with just being physically better then people. While you question if he will do anything after his rookie contract is up, I question if he will ever bust his butt. Big risk to me.

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I don't know the whys of why exactly his teammates domt like him or his family. He doesn't sound like a guy who'll get in trouble off the field.

 

As far as RB goes, I was never high on the position and definitely not Cook. He's getting hailed as this years Zeke and hes not. I like Kelley for what he is and think 3rd down back is more of an issue, but CT is solid now. Gruden does like the run game, despite what most people think. He also likes switching up backs and using the entire stable. You dont use a first on a back like that.

 

Unless it's Fournette. Then you run to the podium. If he gets past Jax, I'll be in shock though. He's better than Zeke.

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

As for our first, I still think McDowell is in the pole, but PRer and CB are the top two targets. Maybe if Breeland was using the off-season to work on his game, instead of embarrassing himself trying to fight people on twitter I'd have a little more confidence. What a disappointment. 

 

I'd be ok with either, and add to that Lamp as a OG, or a stud DE/DT. Getting Brown has really helped us be more BPA.

[HTTRDynasty]

Not sure if it's already been discussed in this thread, but how would you guys feel about drafting Cam Robinson at 17?  He can step in day 1 and be a dominant force at LG.  Probably more dominant at LG than Lamp would be.  We would legitimately have a top 3 OL in this league, and if Kirk leaves next season, it would make life that much easier for any rookie QB we have to draft and develop.  He can also be valuable insurance for us if Trent gets his year-long suspension in the coming years and Nsheke is no longer the team. 

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I've kind of come to terms with the fact that we won't take advantage of the top of this studly TE class, due to our investments in Reed and VD, rightly or wrongly. 

 

 

I haven't come to terms with it whatsoever and its really going to irk me if we ignore the position. Of course, I'm not really a fan of any of our TEs though. 

 

Our entire offense runs through a TE with major health concerns, that basically refuses to even attempt a block. Add a cat like Howard and your run game improves for a decade, along with the red zone and third downs.

 

Howard is still my personal favorite for our pick. Ill have to check Kittle out.

[Est.1974]

There's a good chance OL/TE will be pure BPA when we pick at 17. Interestingly the areas Gruden said he was most comfortable with on our roster. Bruce reckons we follow the draft board so can't wait to see which way we go.

 

The Zach Brown signing really does help us out. For all the recent crap knocking about, that signing has come as a major boost pre draft for me.

[Gregpeck99]

Hope Skins either grab "Falling Angel" at 17 (Foster, Lamb, McCaffrey or Ross) or trade down.

 

Here are my sleepers at skill positions:

 

1.  Elijah McGuire RB

 

2.  Carlos Henderson WR

 

3.  Gerald Everette  TE

 

4.  *Wounded Warrior*:  James Connor RB or Pharoh Brown TE