2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Hmmm.  I could definitely see the Saints taking him at 11, but I can't think of a team who would be all over him in the top 10...

 

 

 

I don't really see it. I think Fournette, Cook, and Mixon are all better options. Mixon will likely fall to the 2nd or 3rd round due to the character stuff and the PR issues that would go along with drafting him but I think Fournette and Cook will go before McCaffrey. I think he's closer to a late 1st rounder or early 2nd.

[Conn]

People keep saying "there's no way he falls to 17" about various players. There's only 16 guys that can go before us, people. SOMEONE you don't expect is going to fall. 

 

Let's start by saying 2 QBs and 2 RBs go before we pick. Maybe that's optimistic, but I think it happens. 

 

That leaves 12. We know Garrett isn't making it past 1. We can feel pretty confident Solomon Thomas and Jamal Adams go as well.

 

That leaves 9. How many CBs go? It's a deep class, which theoretically could push them down, but it doesn't change how talented the top guys are and the needs of those teams. Gotta guess at LEAST 2 CBs go. I think that's conservative. 

 

That leaves 7. I know it's a weak class but do we really think zero OL go before we pick? Need forces picks every year, you gotta think at least one team reaches. Let's say 1 OL to be safe.

 

Down to 6. Let's say only Howard goes at TE. I really think someone falls in love with him and he goes top-16. 

 

We're down to 5.

 

How about WR? At least one of Davis/Williams/Ross have to go, right? Even if we're conservative here, one has to go.

 

We're down to 4. 

 

That means, assuming there are no surprise players we don't expect, no extra QBs or RBs past the two each I've accounted for, no more TEs, WRs, etc. we're already down to just FOUR picks to "worry" about in terms of teams taking guys we could realistically covet and "expect" to be there.

 

And I haven't even hit EDGE guys yet! Or any of the arguably 3 ILB who could go that high. Or any DL aside from Garrett and Thomas. 

 

Any way you slice it, as long as the QBs and RBs don't slide, we're looking at a brilliant DL, EDGE, ILB, CB, or S available for us at 17. Whatever position has a run before we pick, the other positions are just stronger for us to choose from. The more offensive players that go, the better. Imagine how great a position we're in if somehow 2 QBs, 2 WRs, a TE, and 2 RBs go? That could happen. 

 

As long as we don't **** this up royally, we are getting an impact defender in the 1st. 

 

It's not even inconceivable, looking at what I've laid out above, that a complete stud we would never think we'd have a shot at drops to us. Hooker, Foster, Reddick, McDowell or whoever your top interior DL or EDGE is...it's totally possible. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

I think what you are describing @ConnSKINS26 is what is making this draft so interesting to me. Its not the top 4 guys at the top and who is going to be the #1 pick type of drama but its the someone really effing good is going to fall to a team that really needs hom (hopefully us!)

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't really see it. I think Fournette, Cook, and Mixon are all better options. Mixon will likely fall to the 2nd or 3rd round due to the character stuff and the PR issues that would go along with drafting him but I think Fournette and Cook will go before McCaffrey. I think he's closer to a late 1st rounder or early 2nd.

 

I agree, but I hope he does. I don't trust Gruden to stay away from him.

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

I don't think mixon holds a candle to cook, the guy is a huge talent, moreso than mixon imo.

If we're in the business of drafting **** bags, grab the more talented blue chip one.

I'm really warming to the idea of cook in the first, and try to grab a dl who falls in the second or third. Brantley, Taylor, wormley, johnson, those are guys I'd target in the second or third. Then it you really want a nt, get big Steve late 4th early 5th.

 

The running game absolutely needs to be upgraded, i like Kelly but he was a non factor in all 7 of our losses, and way too often as a whole. (I know he didn't play during the first 2 losses) We averaged 58 ypg and  .14 rushing tds per game during those seven.. unacceptable.

 

 

As I said a bit ago I think Cook and Mixon have some definite similarities in their games but they also have some differences. As far as pure talent I'd say they're pretty close. Mixon is a better pass catcher...Cook is certainly a threat in the passing game but IIRC (would have to look it up again) he also had a fair amount of drops. If you watch Mixon and Cook catch they're a world apart. Mixon has soft hands and catches the ball like a WR whereas Cook tends to look stiffer and do much more body catching. 

 

They're both very elusive and both of them can cut on a dime, but in general it seems that from a pure tackle breaking standpoint Cook is better...It may be because he gets lower in his pads since he is 5'10 210 so presents a smaller target whereas Mixon is 6'1 225 so is a bit more of an upright runner, though Mixon seems to have smoother hips and is actually very good at getting small and low for a guy his size. They both have good patience and vision, though Cook seems to be much more hesitant to cut back inside between the tackles and seems to usually try to get to the outside a bit too quickly. 

 

Just personal preference but I would take Mixon first. I just think he has the best blend of size, speed, elusiveness, and pass catching ability though I think both he and Cook will be good every down backs in the NFL. One other thing to take into account is the tread on the tires, so to speak. Cook has 687 carries in his college career....that's a hell of a lot of carries. Mixon only has 300. 

[SamMills51]

I'd have McCaffery #2 on my board as far as runningback prospects go. I like what I see from him. Could easily see the Panthers taking him at 8, especially with our WR coach Stanford connection w/ McCaffery.

[SamMills51]

Would like to share with you all a solid write-up on the Carolina Huddle on a podcast talking about QBs, RBs, and TEs.

 

A must watch honestly.

 

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/136110-nfl-draft-podcast-talk-about-rbs-cam-newton-qbs-tid-bit-on-te-oj-howard-w-my-own-comments/

 

Small Excerpt:

 

 

18:50 - RB Leonard Fournette - Best RB From The Class, But Will He Be A Superstar?

 

One the most interesting opening conversations beginning in this podcast. They talk about Fournette, and how Matt Waldman doesn't believe he's going to be that type of runningback that transforms the league. He still believes he's the best back in the draft, but they all come to the consensus he's not quite Adrian Peterson's level.

 

They explain how Fournette is a scheme-based boom-bust prospect of the draft, and how he may literally be the biggest risk of the draft. If he is forced into a zone-based shotgun scheme instead of a team highlighting his strengths as a downhill power runner, he will bust out and be a mediocre lug. They explain how he would've been far and away the best back in 2008, but since the league has transformed to a spread based scheme with speedy genetic freaks, it's a lot tougher in the league. His cuts are not that sharp and he's just not the most nimble or explosive.

 

One thing that stands out is his Stephen Davis comparison. Not the Davis of the Panthers or Rams, but the one of Washington and in his prime. His hard running to get every yard is something that stands out, and how Fournette's upside is Stephen Davis in his prime - and possibly better. They tamper him at a reasonable ceiling rather than putting him as the best back of the century, but a solid, powerful back that has the upside of Stephen Davis with potential to be better and more. He's the best runningback from the draft, but he may not be as big of a superstar as most think.

 

His success lingers on the team that takes him and their scheme.

 

30:10 - RB Christian McCaffery - The Safest Runningback From The Class

 

In this segment, they begin talking about Christian McCaffery, and how he's arguably the safest pick in the draft. They go back to that interesting analogy of comparing these runningbacks to 2008, and how McCaffery would've probably been in 2017 Fournette's shoes in being a boom or bust prospect in that age's NFL. In the modern NFL, McCaffery is the safest pick of them all.

 

His versatility and ways NFL offenses can weaponize him makes him all the more valuable. From being your receiving threat, your occasional blocking RB, to your ground-game pure runner, McCaffery can do it all. They talk about that versatility and how Stanford's offense made him prepared to be NFL-ready from the get-go. With Stanford running a pro-style scheme, McCaffery is likely able to slide in any team's situation and dominate.

 

What he does best is getting in between the tackles, then being the skinny dude in the second level and getting those yards. He may never be your power back that you use to snatch those short yards, but he'll be your elusive, twitchy guy. They talk about how well he compares to Brian Westbrook, and how he could honestly be a better version of Reggie Bush's hype. McCaffery has a ton of talent and ways to use him, and they argue how he's the second best back from the draft easy.

 

34:30 - RB Dalvin Cook - Durability Issues And Ball-Control Hamper His Stock

 

What Matt Waldman likes to say first and foremost he judges football players based on production, and tries not to be the judge on good or bad. He looks at a football player based on how they are as a football player, rather than input character into the overall assessment. Based upon that football assessment, he has him as the 4th overall best runningback in the draft.

 

While you can argue all you want about Cook's character flags (which I'd argue are far worse than Mixon's), Cook still has some talent. Matt Waldman explains how he could've been the best back from this class had he not had so much durability and ball-security concerns. Matt Waldman explains how he doesn't have much concern on his disappointing combine workout, and how he does not show those weaknesses on tape.

 

Dalvin Cook is slightly like Devonta Freeman, in how he has a low vertical but still have a shot at being a legit back. He's not that powerful, but he does have fantastic burst and speed and a unique running style. He bounces off hits, and bends around in a unique way to get the yards he needs. He's a finesse runner, and uses his blockers to his advantages more than any back from the draft, and his patience in his craft. He's a lot like Le'Veon Bell in his vision and patience. When he sees his hole open up, he'll burst through at breakaway speed.

 

Now, Dalvin Cook will likely not be your power back. He's not a good pass protector at all, and may never be. He's rusty in his technique and weak overall, and will likely make 2016 Tolbert look like an All-Pro. Cook will not push through defenders and be the intimidating runningback that will punish defenses with strength. Sure, he's a good runner and receiver, but he won't be an intimidating, short-yardage powerback. He will likely not achieve that level.

Dalvin Cook - aside his off the field concerns - is a decent back. However, he won't be a powerback, and his durability/ball security is worrisome. He could be the best back from the draft, but these issues made them drop his stock down to #4.

 

42:08 - RB Jamaal Williams - Sleeper Runningback Of The Class?

 

Matt Waldman has expressed multiple times about his crush on Jamaal Williams. He loves the kid, and loves his intelligence. He's mentioned how great his feel for the game is, and how he'd translate into an instant NFL starter. A comparison he's made to him is Ricky Waters, and how much he looks just like him.

 

He's one of the better pass protecting runningbacks of this draft class, and he's an underrated receiver. He makes the cuts and angles that get the yards, and is intelligent in how he plays. He loves the game, and knows so much about it, and appears to be the guy who's willing to learn and get better at his craft.

 

He's not the flashiest, but he's one of the more solid options in this draft class.

45:22 - RB Joe Mixon - The Next Matt Forte?

 

Again, you can argue all you want about Mixon's off the field concerns, but he's a very talented back. His skills are undoubtly high level, and he plays really well. So much so, Matt Waldman has him as his number 3 overall runningback from this draft. He's pretty good, and any team that grabs him when his stock falls will get a huge steal.

 

Whatever you think of Mixon's character, you can't argue he's a talented football player. He's very good at jump cutting and making those slashing moves you see from Forte and Freeman all too often, and how good of a receiving threat he is. He's an all around solid runningback with instant starting potential. He has great speed to get away and hit the homerun, and playmaking ability for any team.

 

He can run inside and outside, and get short gains and long gains. He's a fantastic runningback and football player, and will be a solid playmaker in the NFL. He's talented, and very good.

 

Whether or not you think he's a bad person, or a misunderstood person, whoever grabs him will get a star.

 

48:10 - RB Samaje Perine - Toughest Runningback In This Class?

 

One thing I liked was Matt Waldman talking about Samaje Perine as a 'cement truck.' When guys hit him, they're basically butter falling off a hot skillet. He bounces off tackles, carries guys down the field, and is a solid, tough back. His power is incredible, and his play punishes anyone daring to try to stop him. He plays very smooth, and his runs are just silky fluid.

 

However, he does need to get his weight under control. When he does, you'll see production in relation to his freshmen year. The combine has shown he has that potential to be a really good runningback in the league, and may come out as a steal in the draft. If he keeps his weight in check, he'll be a dominating back in the league for the years to come. They go as far to say he'll be in his prime for 8 years or longer.

 

Samaje Perine may very well be the steal of the draft, and one of the toughest power runners coming out of the draft, with potential to be a great runningback if he can return to his freshman year form.

 

56:45 - Deepest TE Class He's Seen; OJ Howard Not Worth A Top 10 Pick?

 

To wrap things up, Matt Waldman applauds how amazing this TE class this year is. He mentions he has 5 TEs from this class who'd be the top 5 if you combined the last 3 years of TEs. He'd put these five guys from this year above a guy like TE Hunter Henry from last year.

 

That's how deep this draft class is.

 

One guy he particularly likes is TE Jeremy Sprinkle as a possible sleeper TE. He has him as the #7 TE overall, and an immediate starter. The only reason his stock is pretty low is how he's likely not going to be a DynastyFF breaker, but will be an impact player on any team. He mentions how he could fit on the Colts to replicate Dwayne Allen's production and better, or any team with a 2 TE set that needs another solid option. He talks about his solid pass protection, and how he is a viable receiving threat.

 

He then keeps reiterating the talent and depth of this amazing TE class, but he then comes out and gives a blunt assessment on how overrated OJ Howard truly is (1:00:39). They mention how they'd rather take Jeremy Sprinkle in the 5th round than take him in the 1st round anywhere. They then talk about how they're overhyping him as a superstar, but no one is buying it.

 

When you look at his production in Alabama, you don't see a star. He's used a lot on shallow routes, and a blocker. However, you just never see him make the catches or plays you'd see from David Njoku, Bucky Hodges, or guys like them and get those big-boy, NFL style plays. He seems to be unable to get much YAC, and just an average presence on the field. Granted, the two biggest games of his life, he showed up well, but his overall career doesn't show that. You'd think if Alabama considered him to be this superstar, he'd be utilized way more by a coach known for bringing the best out of every player.

 

At this point, Howard is pretty much overhyped and his potential is the only indicator for any success in the NFL. Focus and effort are his questionable traits. What Matt Waldman noticed was how the coaching staff at the Senior Bowl ripped Howard on multiple instances, with the Browns coaching staff at the forefront in all the irony. The Browns have good coaches, no doubt about that, though their FO is horrid. These questions and value make these guys think Howard is not worth a high first rounder in this stacked draft class.

 

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

I'd have McCaffery #2 on my board as far as runningback prospects go. I like what I see from him. Could easily see the Panthers taking him at 8, especially with our WR coach Stanford connection w/ McCaffery.

 

SO much buzz around the Panthers and Fournette at 8. Does the whole shotgun thing bother you, that by taking Fournette you're either making Cam or Fournette less effective to compensate for the other? Or do you think Cam is ready to get under center more?

 

Edit: Funny you posted a link talking about this exactly as I posted about it lol. I'd still like to hear your thoughts though.

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

SO much buzz around the Panthers and Fournette at 8. Does the whole shotgun thing bother you, that by taking Fournette you're either making Cam or Fournette less effective to compensate for the other? Or do you think Cam is ready to get under center more?

 

Edit: Funny you posted a link talking about this exactly as I posted about it lol. I'd still like to hear your thoughts though.

 

I don't know if Fournette drops to #8 (because Jax) but if he does, they would be fools not to take him.

[Koolblue13]

@ Howard being overhyped and nobody buying it. The guy has elite WR metrics and good hands, but hes a blocking TE. Thats insane. Hes going to make an offense dangerous in the run and pass for a decade at least and be a Wittenesque cornerstone for somebody.

 

@ConnSKINS26 yeah, I've been driving that point home for a while too. We're just about in the spot where one of either PRer or CB is going to go on a major run also, which will open up trade back possibilities while still grabbing a top tiered defender. 

 

This draft is loaded. Im still really high on McDowell at our pick as well.

 

I bet one of the better ILBs drop to our second round pick too, but im thinking CB is pretty high on our list.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

Would like to share with you all a solid write-up on the Carolina Huddle on a podcast talking about QBs, RBs, and TEs.

 

A must watch honestly.

 

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/136110-nfl-draft-podcast-talk-about-rbs-cam-newton-qbs-tid-bit-on-te-oj-howard-w-my-own-comments/

 

 

What strikes me interesting is how many people have different opinions about the running backs.  Fournette is mostly considered #1 among draft geeks.  Cook and Mccafrrey trade places a lot at #2.  Cook is #1 with some, I've not seen Mccaffrey picked #1.  Some think Mixon is #2 or #3 and some pick him first but that's more of an outlier than common position.  Most think he's the 4th or 5th best.   Kamara and Mixon tend to trade places to #4.

 

In this draft they likely can nail a good one in the 3rd or even 4th round and that's what I would do in their shoes.

 

Going through mocks (if they have any merit and am not always sure they do) The quarterbacks seem to be the wild card to move defenders down our way.  

 

The guys seems a given to go before 17:  Garrett, S. Thomas, Fournette, J. Adams 

Very likely to go before 17:  Jonathan Allen, Malik Hooker, Lattimore, OJ Howard, Trubisky, Watson, R. Foster

On the fence:  D. Barnett, M. Williams, Conley

guys all over the place including top 15:  McKinley, Reddick, McCaffrey, Cook, J, Ross, C. Davis

 

Usually there is some wildcard like maybe the Cards surprise and take Mahomes or someone loves Kevin King, someone jumps on one of the O lineman like Ramczyk or Lamp etc.  if a couple of those things happen, then we could have a surprise drop of some player. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught up with a Laconfora segment, he said (same thing more or less told to me) with Scot he knew they were going defense, defense, defense and D line, D line, D line.  It came up by Laconfora being asked if he thought they'd go RB at #1 -- he said he didn't think so when Scot was still there but now he's not sure.

 

From Keim:

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30826/todd-mcshay-mel-kiper-agree-redskins-should-take-rb-add-help-on-d

 some in the Redskins’ organization were telling people they’d take a lineman in many rounds. Hard to see that being the case.

They could still take one – and should take one -- in the upper rounds....

At 17, it will be tough to find one – and the worst mistake to make is taking one just out of necessity. Only one interior lineman worth taking might be available when they pick – Michigan State’s Malik McDowell, who would be drafted in the top 10 if questions didn’t exist about his work ethic. Beyond him, however, no interior linemen make sense at 17. Also know this: If a player can’t pressure the passer, they won’t take an interior lineman this high. McDowell can.

Brantley had only 5.5 career sacks at Florida, but he is considered disruptive. If that’s the case, he can play end in their base, tackle in nickel and help collapse the pocket from wherever. Improving their pass defense, especially on third down, has been a major priority this offseason.

 

 

 

I'd guess they will take a D lineman in the first or 2nd -- seems like the typical prospects in that range:  Mcdowell, Brantley, Wormley.  Wormley was beaten up on this thread some but IMO he's a tough evaluation considering he played mostly end and he'd move to 5 technique here.  The combine likely helped him.  For a guy that's 300 pounds to run 4.84 and 1.67 for the 10 yard shuttle. And he has the big arms and wingspan to play a 3-4 -- just about 83 wingspan.  That puts him in the McDowell range in all categories.   The only other 300 pound prospect in that range numbers wise is Montravius Adams.  Brantley for example ran 5.14 in the 40, 1.77 shuttle and has a 77 wingspan. 

 

So in the 300 pound range the athletes that jump:  McDowell, Wormley, Adams.  Wormley had 6.5 sacks his junior year, 6 sacks last year.  McDowell has 4.5 sacks his junior year and 1.5 sacks last year.  I am doubting it was a coincidence that Finley months ago mentioning after having conversations with a key FO person that Wormley might be on their radar.  Worlmey touches metrics Scot likes -- the athlete, he's a senior, Big Ten school, captain. That's assuming they are working off of his lists.  And who knows if they still are. 

 

1. Scott Wright‏Verified account @DraftCountdown  21h21 hours ago

   Michigan DL Chris Wormley should be a target for teams looking for the "Next Chris Jones", who had a terrific rookie season for the Chiefs.

    
2.  

[Gregpeck99]

The Draft is a Lottery.  So to improve odds of success ...  any Team should follow 3 simple Rules in the 1st Round (especially if picking below the top 10).

 

The mid-1st round selection must:

1. Be clean (no off-field garbage)

2. Contribute immediately

3. Play Offense and improve TOP (this in turn improves Defense) 

4. The only exception to # 3 is IF player is second coming of Lawrence Taylor (without the baggage).

 

In this year's Draft ... there will be no "Lawrence Taylor" types available at 17 (i.e. (Reddick and/or McDowell are "bust" candidates IMO).

 

So if comes down to a choice among the following "possible" availables:

Lamp (best OL)

McCaffrey (best RB arguably)

Ross (best "DJax-type" WR)

Howard (best all-around TE)

Davis (best DezBryant-type WR)

Mahomes (if Cousins gone)

Peppers (versatility and athletic ability makes him exception - could play well anywhere!)

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

@Gregpeck99

You almost had me. Until I got to #3.

#3 is just silly.

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

@Gregpeck99

You almost had me. Until I got to #3.

#3 is just silly.

 

Yes, it really is.  @Gregpeck99 needs to take a look at the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers' 1st round picks the past 10 years.

[Butters20]

I would love the scenario where McCaffrey is top 10. Because that means 2 or 3 RBs will be selected before our pick, probably one QB, a wide receiver or two. Which would mean we would have a great defender fall to us. Bring it on.

[Gregpeck99]

37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yes, it really is.  @Gregpeck99 needs to take a look at the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers' 1st round picks the past 10 years.

Yup ... it was the Draft ... not Brady, Rodgers, or Ben.

 

Thanks for proving my point guys. 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Yup ... it was the Draft ... not Brady, Rodgers, or Ben.

 

Thanks for proving my point guys. 

 

Prove your own point by listing all the perennial SB contenders over the past 10 years who have drafted all offense with their first round picks unless a Lawrence Taylor-like prospect fell to them... I'll wait.

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Prove your own point by listing all the perennial SB contenders over the past 10 years who have drafted all offense with their first round picks unless a Lawrence Taylor-like prospect fell to them... I'll wait.

 

[Gregpeck99]

26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Prove your own point ... I'll wait.

Offense wins Super Bowls!

 

Especially an elite QB and a TOP-dominating-offense (which follows) ... everything else is noise.

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Offense wins Super Bowls!

 

Especially an elite QB and a TOP-dominating-offense (which follows) ... everything else is noise.

 

So a team shouldn't go defense in the mid 1st round unless a once in a generation player happens to fall to them?

 

That is a.....special.....opinion.

[nemocystem]

Disagree about 3....but otherwise, yeah...

 

I figure there's a small probability factor of 1 of 4 potential upper tier prospects falling to us at 17.  

 

OJ Howard

Reuben Foster

Leonard Fournette

Tre'Davious White

 

Lemme start by saying I'm not sure we'd be all that interested in White...but sure,  he could fall to us, & he could be BPA on some boards. Jonathan Allen is a small possibility, however if he falls all the way to 17, I'm not so sure we should be the ones taking the risk as it would undoubtedly have to do with concerns over the long-term implications of his shoulder situation.  Could be a Trojan Horse of sorts.

 

If Foster falls, it's because of his attitude...& again...should we/shouldn't we?  It's just a question.

 

Fournette would be tough to pass up as i find it hard to believe someone else would be BPA at that point...& i just think that unless someone takes Njoku first...Howard is definitely the first TE off the board.

 

That pretty much leaves us with the names @Gregpeck99 mentioned, & that's a list i pretty much agree with at 17...except, i have all but removed WR from my 1st round shopping list.  I think it's tol easy to land a guy like Cooper Kupp, or Ju Ju Smith-Schuster, or Dede Westbrook at 49 if you want to go that route.  There will be others still in rounds 3-4 who are pretty decent WR prospects, so i don't feel rushed to land a top tier WR...even though i love a lot of WR prospects this draft.

 

& @Skinsinparadise...agree with that whole post pretty much.  Which is why i have all but written off Malik at 17.  Maybe it would make sense if we coild drop back 4 or 5 spots...but I'm off McDowell at 17.  Which is why RB seems like it's all but destined at that spot with a few exceptions.  Peppers, Cunningham, Reddick, Lamp, & i keep saying Melifonwu.  I think he has a chance to be a special CB.  At 6"4" , & all that athleticism...4.4 40 time.....i mean...plus he's shown that he can press man, & lock up WRs.  You get him more training there, & he could rotate to S in a pinch.  Imagine 2 guys like Norman, & Melifonwu with that length, & athleticism in the secondary.  

 

I have to say...Melifonwu at CB is a very intriguing prospect to me.

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

17 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Offense wins Super Bowls!

 

Especially an elite QB and a TOP-dominating-offense (which follows) ... everything else is noise.

 

Interesting.  You do realize that the Broncos just won SB 50 with neither of those, right?  And the Patriots had the number 1 scoring defense, going up against the number 1 scoring offense in this past SB.

 

Nonetheless, you just shifted the argument.  I'm assuming this means you can't list what I asked for?

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just caught up with a Laconfora segment, he said (same thing more or less told to me) with Scot he knew they were going defense, defense, defense and D line, D line, D line.  It came up by Laconfora being asked if he thought they'd go RB at #1 -- he said he didn't think so when Scot was still there but now he's not sure.

 

I don't buy that.  McCloughan has a long track record of undervaluing DL guys.  His teams have rarely drafted a DT before Day 3.

 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Scott Wright‏Verified account @DraftCountdown  21h21 hours ago

1. Michigan DL Chris Wormley should be a target for teams looking for the "Next Chris Jones", who had a terrific rookie season for the Chiefs.

 

The difference between them is that Chris Jones actually had film you could see of him playing 5 tech and inside.  Wormley doesn't really, or if someone finds the film, please tell me which cutup has it.

 

I am curious about Chris Wormley playing inside, but I'd like to see tape of him doing that before I'm willing to say he'd be worth a Day 2 pick.  He was largely invisible as an Edge guy.  He's athletic, but doesn't seem comfortable playing in space, he didn't really "attack" at any point.  Always hesitant.

[mistertim]

If SM were still here I wouldn't really see much of a chance of us taking McDowell but now who knows?

 

I was totally fine with taking him at 17 before the combine. As the evaluator in the youtube video posted a few pages back noted, McDowell was pretty much the only person in his unit who didn't suck (those paused moments in the vid of him blowing up double teams and getting into the backfield while every one of his DL teammates were getting manhandled and blown back was pretty damning) and I can see that wearing a guy down over time so I could possibly buy the theory that it isn't necessarily that he doesn't care or doesn't want to play hard, but that he was the only good player in an overall ****ty unit and it took its toll over time.

 

That being said, after the combine I am FAR more wary about him. The reports of him having really bad interviews, with one team saying it was the "worst interview we did. Awful interview. Awful", rings alarm bells. Those interviews are where a guy who is having his motor and motivation questioned can help dispel those notions and reassure teams. So I see a couple possibilities...1) he doesn't really care all that much and the motivation/work ethic issue is real, or 2) he does care and the motivation/work ethic stuff is not true and can be explained but he is just a poor communicator. In his press conference he seemed to just sort of be dismissive of the whole thing. "It's not an issue" or something along those lines was what he said.

 

Watching his cutups, especially with how ****ty the guys around him generally were, his talent is hard to deny, but he seems to be a huge boom or bust pick. I'm a bit on the fence.