2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[mistertim]

As far as RBs go, I still think Mixon is the most talented one in this draft. He has all the tools to be a premier every down back IMO, and can also catch like a WR. But his character concerns are obviously really a huge hit on him. 

[bobandweave]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

As far as RBs go, I still think Mixon is the most talented one in this draft. He has all the tools to be a premier every down back IMO, and can also catch like a WR. But his character concerns are obviously really a huge hit on him. 

 

Your right about him being the best in the draft. If he hadn't socked that girl and there was no video of it out there he would be a first round pick. With that out there we can't afford the negativity associated with drafting him with everything else going on with this team. So how far do you think he falls? 3rd round? Undrafted? It's going to be interesting to see where he goes but I'd bet a dollar to anyone's dime he is off our draft board no matter what round he falls

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Your right about him being the best in the draft. If he hadn't socked that girl and there was no video of it out there he would be a first round pick. With that out there we can't afford the negativity associated with drafting him with everything else going on with this team. So how far do you think he falls? 3rd round? Undrafted? It's going to be interesting to see where he goes but I'd bet a dollar to anyone's dime he is off our draft board no matter what round he falls

 

With his talent I just can't see him falling past 3. Someone is bound to take a chance on him. I think a lot of it depends on if he has talked to the teams and how they have felt about the interviews and if they feel he is sincere in his regret about the incident and is truly intent on proving that he isn't that guy anymore. If they believe him then someone will take a chance on him. 

 

I'm really torn on it as far as the Skins. On one hand I don't think we can stand any more negative press at the moment and that would draw TONS. On the other.....man, getting THAT kind of talent in the 3rd round?

[bobandweave]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I'm really torn on it as far as the Skins. On one hand I don't think we can stand any more negative press at the moment and that would draw TONS. On the other.....man, getting THAT kind of talent in the 3rd round?

 

I'm right there with you, incredible value. And if I was in charge and he's sitting there in the 3rd I'm pulling the trigger and grabbing him. Instant talent infusion on the offense at a position of need. But I'm reserved to thinking he's never going to be here. We value character way too much not that I agree with this approach just how I see it

[PeterKingsIllegitimateKid]

Being a West Coaster, I got to see a lot of Vanderdoes (haven't watched game tape) and I like what he'd bring to the team in the 3rd-4th round. Guys coming back from ACL surgery at his age see a bigger uptick in production after that first year back. If we went after him in the 3rd I'd be all for it. Especially if we went with an offensive pick in the 1st or 2nd round. 

 

DL and Edge Rush are the two biggest needs IMO. ILB is like RB for me. Find them cheap because they're expendable (except in the case of getting an elite talent, i.e. Keuchley, Mack, Hightower, R. Foster?). 

[Dukes and Skins]

Honestly at this point if you just get 2 more pieces on defense and the offense stays top 10 then this is another playoff year 

[Conn]

I'm comfortable enough with our offense with Cousins that I'm still on board with spending our first 5 picks (in the first 4 rounds) all on defense if it falls that way. If we lose Cousins in 2018 anyways, we're going to need something to lean on. 

 

Am I upset about missing out on the top of this TE class if we do that? Yeah. But one silver lining is that the top of next year's RB class will at least match this one, so I don't mind pushing off RB another year like KB said above. A vet signing should cover us if something happens to Kelley (who I'm not thrilled with, but you can only draft so many guys each year).

[Dukes and Skins]

1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I'm comfortable enough with our offense with Cousins that I'm still on board with spending our first 5 picks (in the first 4 rounds) all on defense if it falls that way. If we lose Cousins in 2018 anyways, we're going to need something to lean on. 

 

Am I upset about missing out on the top of this TE class if we do that? Yeah. But one silver lining is that the top of next year's RB class will at least match this one, so I don't mind pushing off RB another year like KB said above. A vet signing should cover us if something happens to Kelley (who I'm not thrilled with, but you can only draft so many guys each year).

 

Totally get that sentiment and have the same one myself. Wouldn't surprise me if they took an EDGE guy early on and can be a designated pass rusher for them early on 

[Conn]

Just now, Dukes and Skins said:

 

Totally get that sentiment and have the same one myself. Wouldn't surprise me if they took an EDGE guy early on and can be a designated pass rusher for them early on 

 

BPA could easily fall that way too. Idk if we'll be throwing the idea of strict BPA away post-Scot, but a speed rusher is a big need of ours too despite how badly people want interior DL help. 

[Dukes and Skins]

4 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

BPA could easily fall that way too. Idk if we'll be throwing the idea of strict BPA away post-Scot, but a speed rusher is a big need of ours too despite how badly people want interior DL help. 

 

Yep for sure on both points. Really like option of Charles Harris later in round 1 or early in round 2. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Here's the question.....If you don't draft a RB and both Foster and Reddick are gone...and you can't trade down....who do you take?

 

Seems like 3 directions....

 

DL -  Brantley or McDowell

 

Edge Rusher -  McKinley, Harris

 

CB/S - Budda Baker, Tre'Davious White, Humphrey, etc...

 

 

I would go with Budda in this scenario

 

[Dukes and Skins]

2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Here's the question.....If you don't draft a RB and both Foster and Reddick are gone...and you can't trade down....who do you take?

 

Seems like 3 directions....

 

DL -  Brantley or McDowell

 

Edge Rusher -  McKinley, Harris

 

CB/S - Budda Baker, Tre'Davious White, Humphrey, etc...

 

 

I would go with Budda in this scenario

 

 

I would go Takk there 

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

BPA could easily fall that way too. Idk if we'll be throwing the idea of strict BPA away post-Scot, but a speed rusher is a big need of ours too despite how badly people want interior DL help. 

 

1 hour ago, Dukes and Skins said:

 

Yep for sure on both points. Really like option of Charles Harris later in round 1 or early in round 2. 

 

Absolutely. I'd LOVE to see Barnett fall to us in the first.

[crabbypatty]

3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I disagree in part about Rob Kelley. He has good instincts (maybe very good) and very good vision. And I think he is a much better receiver than he showed last year. He had 46 catches one year with Tulane. A couple of those throws from Cousins were really bad, got dumped on him. I watched a few game films after we drafted him, he has good hands.

 

But, he does not have great speed, that is for sure. But I think he can be as much of a bellcow as Alfred Morris was, and Alfred didn't have much speed either. We also have Chris Thompson, who does have good speed, and I'd like to see Keith Marshall, who has almost untouchable speed, and is a bigger back.

 

Besides, I'm not sure you can spend a 1st round pick on what is essentially a luxury pick when you have as many issues as we do on defense, in a defensive draft.

Marshall is possibly the worst rb in the nfl, speed or no speed.

The guy has absolutely zero vision or feel and is brittle as glass. 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Here's the question.....If you don't draft a RB and both Foster and Reddick are gone...and you can't trade down....who do you take?

 

Seems like 3 directions....

 

DL -  Brantley or McDowell

 

Edge Rusher -  McKinley, Harris

 

CB/S - Budda Baker, Tre'Davious White, Humphrey, etc...

 

 

I would go with Budda in this scenario

 

 

I was big on McKinley earlier in the process but reading about his shoulder surgery where he's out for months wonder if they'd be guy shy after what happened with Doctson last year.  I think Barnett is a possibility at edge rusher and a dark horse if they traded down a little would be Jordan Willis.  

 

If it were me, I'd take Barnett in that scenario, Baker would be my next pick.

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

Marshall is possibly the worst rb in the nfl, speed or no speed.

The guy has absolutely zero vision or feel and is brittle as glass. 

 

That's a heck of an overstatement.

Except maybe the "glass" part.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, PeterKingsIllegitimateKid said:

Being a West Coaster, I got to see a lot of Vanderdoes (haven't watched game tape) and I like what he'd bring to the team in the 3rd-4th round. Guys coming back from ACL surgery at his age see a bigger uptick in production after that first year back. If we went after him in the 3rd I'd be all for it. Especially if we went with an offensive pick in the 1st or 2nd round. 

 

DL and Edge Rush are the two biggest needs IMO. ILB is like RB for me. Find them cheap because they're expendable (except in the case of getting an elite talent, i.e. Keuchley, Mack, Hightower, R. Foster?). 

 

No way I buy they are going with Francis (undrafted and has hardly played) or Taylor (hasn't played for 2 seasons) at NT.  So I am taking Manusky at his word about looking for an NT in the draft -- Vanderdoes, M. Adams, Tomlinson, Qualls.  It seems like a given.

 

If not, wow imagine stopping the run with journeymen nose tackles and Will Compton up the middle?  It would be a familiar story.  And sadly, I don't think it will matter how much better the communication is on the field -- they will still be likely run on at will. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Barnett and Taco are not options for us....neither can play OLB and neither is big enough to play 3-4 DE

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Here's the question.....If you don't draft a RB and both Foster and Reddick are gone...and you can't trade down....who do you take?

 

Seems like 3 directions....

 

DL -  Brantley or McDowell

 

Edge Rusher -  McKinley, Harris

 

CB/S - Budda Baker, Tre'Davious White, Humphrey, etc...

 

 

I would go with Budda in this scenario

 

Baker would be my choice. 

 

If we get McDowell and Tomlinson though, our line is nasty for a few years. Maybe a pass rusher or ILB with the second and fourth, our front 7 is much improved. 

 

I really want to draft a true FS earlier than later. Someone who can play nickle, then slide back to the other safety spot when Cravens moves to nickle backer.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Barnett and Taco are not options for us....neither can play OLB and neither is big enough to play 3-4 DE

 

 Even running with the idea that they are bad fits for 3-4  -- they play 4-3, like what 70% of the time?   They met with Taco at the combine and I read they are about to meet with him again.  I doubt they are doing so purely to amuse themselves.  

 

Don't get me wrong, it's cool for you to think these players aren't options but you say it so matter of factly as if we are wasting our time even talking about them.  Clearly, its not a waste of time since Taco is in play.  And clearly they indeed see him as an option.   As for Barnett, who knows.  But the idea that he's no OLB isn't a slam dunk opinion. 

 

Ryan Lippert‏ @Lippert42  Mar 15

 

McShay on Derek Barnett- "Really smooth and athletic. Could have ablility to play 3-4 outside linebacker.

 

 

http://gridironnow.com/former-scout-sees-derek-barnett-3-4-outside-linebacker-nfl/

Derek Barnett made his name in the SEC at Tennessee as a defensive end. But in the NFL, he might be better suited playing another position.

 

Former NFL scout Chris Landry wrote as much about Barnett on LandryFootball.com ahead of the upcoming 2017 NFL Draft.

 

“Tennessee DE Derek Barnett is one of the most productive defensive linemen to come out of the SEC in quite some time despite lacking the length and explosiveness off the edge,” Landry writes. “The 6-foot-3, 267-pounder was a first-team All-SEC pick and first-team All-American last season after posting 18 TFL and 12 sacks. I see him as a early down, outside ‘backer in a 3-4 with the ability to put his hand in the ground on sub packages. I look for him to be a mid-first round pick.”

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-football-derek-barnett-performance-key-tennessee-playoff/

How he was used

Through two games, Barnett had spent 87 of his 116 defensive snaps lined up at either left defensive end or left outside linebacker

[SkinsPassion4Life]

C'mon man...how many more times do you need to see us draft players and fit a square peg into a round hole?     I'm sick of hearing how we only play 3-4 30% of the time....even if that's true; that's still 30%...that's a lot of plays.

 

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I would draft TJ Watt over Barnett or Taco

[clskinsfan]

50 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Barnett and Taco are not options for us....neither can play OLB and neither is big enough to play 3-4 DE

 

Barnett is most definitely a fit at OLB in a 3-4. And Taco has the frame to put on another 20 pounds easily. The guy is 6'6. I dont have a first round grade on Taco though. Barnett is one of the best pure pass rushers in this draft IMO.

[RandyHolt]

I wonder how much harder drafting is, running a 3-4. Most all guys need to be projected into new positions, roles, and techniques. College's best lineman better get ready to be in pass coverage. It's just seems to be more trouble that its worth, at least for us. Is doing that in Allen's wheelhouse? 

 

So, everyone knows we need a nose because we told everyone. Not that they didn't know our annual need, but I feel now we will lose a little value taking a nose a bit early to ensure we get our guy. So, we will draft a nose early on.  Knowing us, we will likely then scrap the 3-4 next year.

 

What is the magic number, what % of time that we are not in the 3-4, that makes us officially stupid to run a 3--4 at all?  80%, 90%?  And burning picks on guys that best fit the 3-4 all alone the way.  

 

It just all seems like an exercise in futility going all these years without a nose, but pressing on trying like hell to finally get one this year. And then the next. 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

C'mon man...how many more times do you need to see us draft players and fit a square peg into a round hole?     I'm sick of hearing how we only play 3-4 30% of the time....even if that's true; that's still 30%...that's a lot of plays.

 

 

 

Two different points though in play.

 

1.  We are also speculating on what the team will do.  Forget our opinion of what they should do.  And in that conversation if they are meeting with players multiple times they are an option versus not being options.  That was my key point.

 

2.  As for your other point.  If I recall it was you or if not someone else debated Solomon Thomas the same way, that he's not an option for a 3-4.   Some scouts disagreed on that point.  Some scouts apparently disagree with you on Barnett, too.    It's not IMO a slam dunk get out of here, no way type of an opinion that these guys are misfits for 3-4 defenses. 

 

My take on the D line isn't that we got good guys but just wrong fits.   We just have a lack of talent period.   We don't have push up the middle.  We don't have speed on the edges.   We can't stop the run.  It's a mess and driven by lack of talent. 

 

Kerrigan was a DE who converted fine to OLB.  Murphy took awhile but ditto.  They aren't IMO the problem.  The only misfits in my book is who we put out there at NT.   The problem IMO is a lack of a speed rusher in that mix and consistent pressure.  I don't think that would change whether Kerrigan rushed standing up or with his hand in the ground.    I don't mind an undersized DT playing on the inside on third down.  And playing some end against the run on first down.   

 

Are either players my top choice at #17?  No.  But I don't think they fall in the category of not an option. 

 

My top guy at the moment is Reddick.  I liked McKinley until the shoulder surgery -- I just doubt they'd go with a guy who is iffy to start the season after what happened with Doctson last season.  I like Baker but hard for me to see them going with a nickel corner in the first round.   If they think Taco could put on another 10 pounds and play 5 technique I wouldn't hate that pick.  I go back and forth on Barnett. I don't love his lack of speed.  The one thing that gets my attention about him is some say he can be really special, outsmarts defenders, overpowers them, great use of hands.   If they see him as distinct improvement over lets say Murphy then why not?  You can put 3 to 4 pass rushers on the same field at a time -- especially 3rd and long where we've stunk.  The Giants went to a Superbowl in part with that approach.