2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Stefanskins]

[Morneblade]

17 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

No offense taken at all Morne  ...I was about to say that in our postings (IQ variation/perception by position...i.e. kicker vs QB) and knowing your grasp on FBall and our Redskins I assumed it would be superfluous to you....and I'm lazy...also, that's why I decided to use Ray's Wonderlick Test score..he had like a13 or something...crazy low...but he anchored an incredible defense for a decade and a half...

 

Ugh, second time typing this

 

Glad you brought this up, actually. I don't think it's the Wonderlick they care about. Sure, teams want a base level of intelligence so they guys are not so dumb they are a constant RP nightmare. Outside of that, they really don't care. If you don't get in trouble and produce on the field, you could be as dumb as a stump.

 

But when you have issues with understanding plays, drawing up plays, and figuring out how to beat a play as the QB of the defense, that puts up red flags.

[Stefanskins]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ugh, second time typing this

 

Glad you brought this up, actually. I don't think it's the Wonderlick they care about. Sure, teams want a base level of intelligence so they guys are not so dumb they are a constant RP nightmare. Outside of that, they really don't care. If you don't get in trouble and produce on the field, you could be as dumb as a stump.

 

But when you have issues with understanding plays, drawing up plays, and figuring out how to beat a play as the QB of the defense, that puts up red flags.

 

why bother with the Wonderlick then?

 

 

/gif kidding

[DC Lumber Co.]

9 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

No offense, but there is a big difference between DE in a 4-3 (Manley) and the QB of the Defense (Foster) . You need to have a guy not only get everyone into the right position, but also get you out of a bad call and into a good one. You have to know what EVERYONE is doing, not just what you need to do.

 

Yeah thats the main thing that scares me with all the reports coming out about Ru Foster. With all the communication issues we've had lately on defense along with players freelancing, I hope we do our homework on Foster before taking a chance on him. Manusky even came out and said he plans to make everyone being on the same page a priority for his defense. 

 

Not saying he won't pan out, but I'm not so sure I want the Skins to be the team that takes a chance on him at this point. Unless the reports of his football IQ are overblown of course.

 

I still think Foster's teammate Ryan Anderson would make a damn good 3-4 ILB actually. He isn't the type of athlete that Haason Reddick is but I think he could make the transition just as well (without the premium a team is going to have to pay for Reddick's hype train). He has the body type to be more of a thumper and could be a pass rushing threat from the inside in base, and on the edge in sub-packages. Not to mention his personality and intensity are exactly what I want leading my defense.

[Stefanskins]

I think a person who might be a PR nightmare would show up more in EI test than the Wonderlick.....look these billion dollar companies have such a finite commodity that I'm sure they invest tons of money/resources for every player/udfa...some prospects inspected more than others...from what I remember (and I've only heard a few WL questions) I was fairly surprised at the complexity....felt a lot like the LSAT type...which is being able to connect dots, formulate and conceptualize...which sounds to me a lot like FB schemes and the reasons why these schemes are run...now, I believe the WL test is timed...so there is an added "psychoanalytic" side to this test...stress...how well do you handle it?...how fast can you connect these dots...If I were a team I'd film my prospects taking the WL test...see their body language...reactions....

 

 

/I'll quit giffin'...just bored and playin' around...

[Dark Acre]

Re: Redskins 1st round pick McAffrey, didn't he dominate the WR drills at the combine too?  He's very much a 3 down player and if he can learn to punt, the fakes would be glorious.  You can line him up as a WR.  You can put him in as a traditional RB for a few.  The reverses and double reverses would be amazing, esp. with athletic guys like Trent, Scherff, and Moses.  Do we have bigger needs?  Sure.  Would he be awesome to have.  Sure too.

[Conn]

Reverses and double reverses don't really work in the modern NFL, and McCaffrey certainly isn't blazing fast enough to make them a regular playcall for any reason. It's something you might see once or twice a season at most, but most teams never call it--and when it works, it's because it's a complete surprise, not because of the skills of whoever is running the ball (maybe their speed comes into play). 

[clskinsfan]

OK. I am done with OL tape. Took me 3 weeks of A LOT of watching to get my rankings. As always my opinion means nothing. My assessment is based solely on tape, No health issues, off field issues, or ANY other issues are included in my rankings. I ALWAYS list my top 10 at each position. I have WR, TE and QB rankings left to do. I need to pick up the pace: Enjoy. Or dont. .At this point with the negativity on this board I really dont care:

 

OT:

Cam Robinson

Antonio Garcia

Taylor Moton

Garett Boles

Dion Dawkins

David Sharpe

Roderick Johnson

Chad Wheeler

Will Holden

Erik Magnuson

 

OG:

Forrest Lamp  (by a wide margin)

Dan Feeney

Dion Dawkins

Ethan Pocic

Pat Efein

Taylor Moton

Jordan Morgan 

Jessamen Dunker

Dorian Johnson

Nico Siragusa

 

C:

Pat Efein

Jon Toth

Ethan Pocic

Tyler Orlosky

Isaac Asiata

Kyle Fuller

JJ Dielman

Riley Sorenson

Cameron Tom

I dont have a 10th, Sorry Suck it up Butter Cup.

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

15 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Reverses and double reverses don't really work in the modern NFL, and McCaffrey certainly isn't blazing fast enough to make them a regular playcall for any reason. It's something you might see once or twice a season at most, but most teams never call it--and when it works, it's because it's a complete surprise, not because of the skills of whoever is running the ball (maybe their speed comes into play). 

 

Umm. Mccaffrey ran a 4.48 at 5'11 200 pounds. That is pretty ****ing "blazing" for a guy his size.

[DC Lumber Co.]

Yeah... spending a first rounder on a player for the half dozen trick plays he'd be used on over his entire career doesn't excite me. Teaching him how to punt sounds like we hired Jim Zorn as Scot McCloughan's replacement.

 

I'm sorry but to me Christian McCaffrey is a prototypical luxury player taken by a team without many glaring needs. I'd be all for it if we were a consistent playoff contender looking for a unique weapon, but we aren't there yet. We already have everything he can do on the roster between Chris Thompson and Jamison Crowder. 

 

However if we trade back I wouldn't be mad if McCaffrey is the one toy Jay gets to have this year if hes in love with him (as long as the rest of the draft is defense-heavy and only after a trade-down). But if we're gonna go RB I'd much rather it be a true lead back like Fournette/Kamara/Mixon or one of the many complimentary backs in this years class to pair with Fat Rob

 

Dare I say that McCaffrey is a little overrated due to the whole "rare white runningback" hype? 

[DC Lumber Co.]

18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Umm. Mccaffrey ran a 4.48 at 5'11 200 pounds. That is pretty ****ing "blazing" for a guy his size.

 

A 4.5 is actually pretty average, almost the definition of average if you base it off of the combine this year for running backs. Fournette ran nearly the same time 40 pounds heavier and an inch taller, fwiw. 

 

If we added in the receivers times his 40 would look even more pedestrian. Far from "blazing" if you ask me. McCaffrey is more quick, shifty, and elusive, IMO. 

[Conn]

38 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Umm. Mccaffrey ran a 4.48 at 5'11 200 pounds. That is pretty ****ing "blazing" for a guy his size.

 

No, it's not.

 

First, let me say that I love McCaffrey, I am not here to down talk him as a prospect. I was only talking about the reverse/double reverse stuff above really.

 

But to finish this little sidebar, McCaffrey is not blazing. It's pretty much the one knock on him that at 200 lbs he "only" runs a 4.48. 

 

He has a ****load of other strengths to offset it but in terms of measurables, not many 200 lb RBs have become bona-fide studs at 200 lbs while NOT running a 4.3. McCoy is pretty much the exception and most contest that he was sick at the combine and plays far above the 195 he weighed there, now. But like McCaffrey he's more quick than fast anyways.

 

But just objectively, 4.48 for a 200 lb RB is not "blazing" fast and that's not arguable if you follow this stuff closely.

[Rattlesnake88]

18 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

No, it's not.

 

First, let me say that I love McCaffrey, I am not here to down talk him as a prospect. I was only talking about the reverse/double reverse stuff above really.

 

But to finish this little sidebar, McCaffrey is not blazing. It's pretty much the one knock on him that at 200 lbs he "only" runs a 4.48. 

 

He has a ****load of other strengths to offset it but in terms of measurables, not many 200 lb RBs have become bona-fide studs at 200 lbs while NOT running a 4.3. McCoy is pretty much the exception and most contest that he was sick at the combine and plays far above the 195 he weighed there, now. But like McCaffrey he's more quick than fast anyways.

 

But just objectively, 4.48 for a 200 lb RB is not "blazing" fast and that's not arguable if you follow this stuff closely.

You have to take into account his other timed agility combine numbers plus game tape to truly understand his on field speed. He is fast. Not blazing like tyreek hill, or desean...But he is fast.

[DC Lumber Co.]

Quote

Nick Saban says Ryan Anderson could play inside linebacker in NFL

By Matt Jennings 
January 24, 2017

 

Nick Saban thinks former Alabama LB Ryan Anderson may switch positions when he gets to the NFL.

 

Anderson played outside linebacker for the Crimson Tide. He was a fairly talented pass rusher off the edge, amassing 19.0 career sacks, including 8.5 in 2016.

 

But at the Senior Bowl this week, Saban reportedly said Anderson’s future may be in the middle of the defense as an inside linebacker.

 

Anderson is listed at 6-foot-2 and 253 pounds. As a result, he may be too small to be an elite pass rushing outside linebacker like Von Miller, Khalil Mack or Vic Beasley.

However, he has good speed to cover ground as an inside linebacker. Saban knows he can make plays in the backfield. He had 39.5 career tackles for loss at Alabama. Letting him play in the box and fill running lanes may be the best way to use him.

 

Anderson had 61 tackles, 31 unassisted, in 2016 as an edge player. And those numbers could skyrocket as an inside linebacker.

 

CBS Sports currently rates Anderson as the No. 6 outside linebacker in the 2017 draft and a likely second-round pick. He’s also ranked No. 7 among Alabama players in the draft.

 

Quote

Meet the most 'hateful' Alabama defender: Ryan Anderson

Alex ScarboroughESPN Staff Writer 

 

...Would senior linebacker Ryan Anderson qualify as the most hateful player on defense?

 

“You already know the answer to that,” said defensive back Minkah Fitzpatrick. “Definitely confirming that. He always has that look, that killer look in his eye. He actually said in one interview that he hates the other team.” Scrolling through this season’s clips, it’s true.

 

When Anderson was asked about Saban’s description of the defense, he agreed wholeheartedly.

 

“We hate everybody on the other team,” he explained. “Everybody that lined up across from us, we hate you. We are going to try to kill you.”

 

If you’re thinking right now that Anderson is saying all of this to get a rise out of people, think again. This is the linebacker who nearly came to blows with Jameis Winston when the two were in high school -- competing in a nothing 7-on-7 tournament.

This is the linebacker who was so upset by his classmates teasing him in grade school about Auburn’s winning streak that he actually “kicked a dude.”

 

Anderson can’t stand it when he catches teammates smiling during practice. The happy-go-lucky Fitzpatrick will get “that look” from Anderson, he said, and his grin will disappear. Fitzpatrick called him the “tone-setter.”

 

“He has his days where he might not be in the best mood,” he said.

And when that happens?

“Definitely steer clear from him.”

 

Safety Ronnie Harrison, who plays with something of an edge himself, said that he once caught Anderson coming off the field during a game saying that he “wanted to kill somebody out there.”

“I was like, ‘Whoa, Ryan. We’re good, brother. We’re all right,’” he said.

“He’s serious and means everything he says.”

 

While Anderson may go a bit too far sometimes, Harrison said it’s good to have him around to keep everyone focused, to keep that “hate switch” turned on.

“I feel like if you’re a great player, the defense is going to feed off you,” Anderson said. “If you’re the best player on your defense and you’re out there and you’re knocking the hell out of people and helping them up, your team and your whole defense is going to be nice like that. You go to help a guy up, you might take it easy on him the next play. I feel like you can’t be like that when you play this game. It’s a war when you step on that field, and you have to expect that.”

 

On a defense stacked with stars like Jonathan Allen, Tim Williams and Reuben Foster, Anderson has been vastly underrated.

 

Over the 2015 and 2016 seasons, he’s amassed 14 sacks, 19 quarterback hurries, 28.5 tackles for loss and five forced fumbles, yet he’s no one's All-American and isn’t getting much hype as a first-round NFL draft pick. He wasn’t even a first- or second-team All-SEC pick by the league’s coaches this season.

 

Watching Anderson drive opponents to the turf, it’s as if he’s playing with something to prove.

 

And that might be exactly what the most universally acclaimed defense in college football needs: an edge.

 

Good isn’t good enough for him.

“I just bring it, man,” he said.

 

 

Now that is exactly who I want manning the middle of our defense. The type of player that can spearhead a culture change on that side of the ball. Please Bruce, draft this kid. 

[Stefanskins]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

OG:

Forrest Lamp  (by a wide margin)

 

 

 

 

Ty!!! HTTR!!!

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

No offense, but there is a big difference between DE in a 4-3 (Manley) and the QB of the Defense (Foster) . You need to have a guy not only get everyone into the right position, but also get you out of a bad call and into a good one. You have to know what EVERYONE is doing, not just what you need to do.

To play Comptons role, true. But the hammer, fosters role, you dont.

[Est.1974]

@clskinsfan Taylot Moton in the second round was an initial choice of mine. Think other needs may take ove but reckon he'd drop into LG just nicely.

[DC Lumber Co.]

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

To play Comptons role, true. But the hammer, fosters role, you dont.

 

And you would feel comfortable using a 1st rounder on a player that would come off the field in sub-packages that call for only one inside linebacker? And Compton is certainly the weaker of our two starting ILBs, so shouldn't we be looking to draft his replacement not someone to line up alongside him?

 

To justify spending a 1st rounder on an inside linebacker, he has to be the total package IMO. A Patrick Willis, Luke Kuechly type. The guy whos going to lead the team in tackles, the captain of the defense, the communicator. Someone quick enough in his pre-snap diagnosis to audible into a different play if needed, align his front 7 while also relaying calls to his counterpart in the secondary. I don't care how cool "the hammer" sounds.  

 

Starting to wonder if Fosters best fit would be as an OLB in the 4-3. 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

And you would feel comfortable using a 1st rounder on a player that would come off the field in sub-packages that call for only one inside linebacker? And Compton is certainly the weaker of our two starting ILBs, so shouldn't we be looking to draft his replacement not someone to line up alongside him?

 

To justify spending a 1st rounder on an inside linebacker, he has to be the total package IMO. A Patrick Willis, Luke Kuechly type. The guy whos going to lead the team in tackles, the captain of the defense, the communicator. Someone quick enough in his pre-snap diagnosis to audible into a different play if needed, align his front 7 while also relaying calls to his counterpart in the secondary. I don't care how cool "the hammer" sounds.  

 

Starting to wonder if Fosters best fit would be as an OLB in the 4-3. 

If he can transform the run game and play that role for a couple years while learning the defense, that's fine.

 

Plenty of players come off the field in certain situations. Pass rushers, nose tackles, etc. If he makes a major impact when hes in there, I don't care.

 

Sounds like he knows this and works hard to over come it. Besides, NFL defense is pretty simple anyway.

[wilco_holland]

8 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

OK. I am done with OL tape. Took me 3 weeks of A LOT of watching to get my rankings. As always my opinion means nothing. My assessment is based solely on tape, No health issues, off field issues, or ANY other issues are included in my rankings. I ALWAYS list my top 10 at each position. I have RB, WR, TE and QB rankings left to do. I need to pick up the pace: Enjoy. Or dont. .At this point with the negativity on this board I really dont care:

 

OT:

Cam Robinson

Antonio Garcia

Taylor Moton

Garett Boles

Dion Dawkins

David Sharpe

Roderick Johnson

Chad Wheeler

Will Holden

Erik Magnuson

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the list. Question: Did you not look at Ryan Ramczyk or did he not make the top 10? 

 

Question 2: Taylor Moton is my favorite midround o-lineman in this draft. I think he has the strenght and quickness to be a great guard. Do you also like him better at guard or prefer to try him as tackle?

 

By the way...this OT list shows you why some OT in free agentcy got overpaid a lot. Not much to work with this year. Very meh group imo. 

[Conn]

9 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

You have to take into account his other timed agility combine numbers plus game tape to truly understand his on field speed. He is fast. Not blazing like tyreek hill, or desean...But he is fast.

 

You're agreeing with me here. 

[Morneblade]

10 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Umm. Mccaffrey ran a 4.48 at 5'11 200 pounds. That is pretty ****ing "blazing" for a guy his size.

 

No, it's not. 4.31 @ 5'11 225 is blazing.

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

To play Comptons role, true. But the hammer, fosters role, you dont.

 

True. But we also want to make sure Compton never see the field unless it's special teams, we already have a Foster playing the hammer role, and at 239 (and seemingly maxed out at that weight), he might be smallish in that role anyway.

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Thanks a lot for the list. Question: Did you not look at Ryan Ramczyk or did he not make the top 10? 

 

Question 2: Taylor Moton is my favorite midround o-lineman in this draft. I think he has the strenght and quickness to be a great guard. Do you also like him better at guard or prefer to try him as tackle?

 

By the way...this OT list shows you why some OT in free agentcy got overpaid a lot. Not much to work with this year. Very meh group imo. 

 

I didnt look at Ramczyk because of his hip. I am not even sure where he will get drafted to be honest. Hip labrum surgery is no joke with arthritis almost assured afterward. And I agree with you about the quality of the OT's in this draft. It is not a good draft for Tackles for sure.

As far as Moton at guard. I dont think he is a step in starter at guard. He has some issues with his hands and letting defenders get into his body. He can be taught I think though.

[clskinsfan]

39 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

No, it's not. 4.31 @ 5'11 225 is blazing.

 

True. But we also want to make sure Compton never see the field unless it's special teams, we already have a Foster playing the hammer role, and at 239 (and seemingly maxed out at that weight), he might be smallish in that role anyway.

 

Mccaffrey was the second fastest RB at the combine (tied with 2 others) So yes. It is blazing.

 

And 4.31 isnt blazing. That is ELITE speed.

[Rattlesnake88]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

You're agreeing with me here. 

Ok cool, just felt like some were downplaying one of his strengths. He is fast and a fantastic runner in space.