2016 Roster Thread (Building a Champion Edition) - Doct to IR - Mo Harris Up

[DC9]

23 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

The good news is, most of those big running plays that killed us last year came as a consequence of our Safety or LBer not finishing the job and we should be better at both those spots this year.

 

Yes sir.  That was the biggest problem.  Those off tackle/outside zone runs where Kerrigan either got washed out for not setting the edge or got pinned inside, and in most of the cases the Safety followed Kerrigan instead of going the other way. 

Ihenacho was excellent at this before his injury last year (but man has he had a bummer of a preseason), hopefully the new faces can provide some improvement.

[TSO]

Paea might be on his way out because of his salary, but he was playing better the last two preseason games for sure. That first game against Atlanta was terrible. Still, he was playing against lesser competition, and for what he's getting paid he should definitely play well against them (it shouldn't be seen as some kind of huge positive)... so I could see them parting ways. 

[JSSkinz]

2 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

I know it's blasphemy to criticize GMSM, but he did not do a good job this off-season.....There were plenty of opportunities to solidify the D-line, RB, C and pass rusher....instead; we're scrambling for Stork, Cullen Jenkins, etc...

 

He should be held accountable just like everyone else but I think there is so much data behind the scenes that its hard for us outsiders to really know if he missed an opportunity or if we would have given up to much to get one of those positions you mentioned. 

[DC9]

7 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Paea might be on his way out because of his salary, but he was playing better the last two preseason games for sure. That first game against Atlanta was terrible. Still, he was playing against lesser competition, and for what he's getting paid he should definitely play well against them (it shouldn't be seen as some kind of huge positive)... so I could see them parting ways. 

 

Well, and I think Jenkins about sums up his roster position.  He's just not shown well.  I'm surprised, too.  I actually was mad we took Jarvis Jenkins instead of him in the draft back then as well.

[sportjunkie07]

This is shaping up to be a good season for the skins. Moreso than I can remember, this team looks primed for success. We have a strong passing game which should lead to a good offense and an improved (on paper) defense. We have a good kicker and punter along with a solidified coaching staff and manangement. 

These things usually lead to a good season and when viewing the rest of the nfc east, the skins seem to have it together comparitively. 

Sure we have some weaknesses, but the only thing that gives me pause is that we have a pretty difficult schedule. 

[bobandweave]

So...got to thinking. Cowboys need a QB, we have what some consider a top flight backup QB in McCoy. Personally don't see it with him so maybe that's why my minds going here now.

Anyway what about a trade sending McCoy to the Cowboys for both Running back Darren McFadden and Guard Ronald Leary. That 2 for 1 would help us and help them.

What that does for us is provide a big rb and an excellent Guard for the line for a player we aren't hoping to use. This is Cousins year right? Not to mention this player isn't good, he's just a game manager which on a smash mouth running system makes perfect sense. For us who will struggle with rushing the ball this year we need more gun slinging then that.

McFadden basically sat out the first 5 weeks of last season and then in week 6 to the end went on to have a 1000 yard season one of only 5 guys to do that last year.

Since we would give them a QB I wouldn't do it for either Leary or McFadden straight up but tiogether I would.

 

 

[DC9]

I think Colt McCoy is a top 5, if not the best, back up QB in the NFL.

If we made that trade (which we wouldn't and neither would Dallas) then we're in as bad a shape if KC goes down as Dallas is now.  Worse, actually...

[bobandweave]

If Cousins went down with an injury what we do after that depends completely on what game he was lost as how best to handle it long term for this and any team in our position. Early in the season, we are better off with a guy we can bet the farm on to lose then someone like McCoy.

Historically it shows that the earlier selected QBs always do better then the later round selected players. A game manager would get this team a 5-11, or 6-10 record earning us a later pick then say if we went 2-14 or 3-13. We should not win meaningless games and should be losing those. It pays to do worse then winning games in a lost season when your needing a QB otherwise you end up giving up too much to move in to draft one like we did with Griffin again

On the other hand say Cousins was hurt in weeks 14 or later and this team was gunning for the playoffs or already in them? Then a guy like Colt McCoy makes much more sense to use over some one that will lose games for your club. That is when you want to have a game manager like McCoy.

It would all depend on how many games we had to play without Cousins to know what was best for us in the case Cousins was lost.

I was just saying that they have two guys in two positions they could afford to lose and need a QB. We have as you said a top 5 backup in the league so assuming that's someone they may want? That trade would help us more so then him being here holding a clipboard all season (if Cousins doesn't get hurt). But your right it won't happen just dreaming

[pjfootballer]

7 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Knowing what we know now, would we have been much better if ScottM didn't spend a 3rd round pick on Jones but on a Center or a DE since we had Morris, Thompson and whoever we could have brought in to compete with them last year?   Jones man, looks more and more as a wasted 3rd round pick.

Man, a little premature after only 1 season. Scott goes BPA in the draft, so the idea that he would have taken a center or defensive end is misguided.  Maybe when we were ready to pick, there wasn't a center or DE that he liked.  You don't pick position (need).  You get in trouble doing that.

7 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

I'm not ready to write off Jones just yet.  He flashed, he just needs to work on ball security and consistency.

That said, I think we could've had him in the 5th round, but maybe not.  That's where I had us taking him and I'm no Scot.

 

Of the possible expendables?  Probably Niles Paul and Greg Toler might get you a conditional 7th.  Colt McCoy probably gets you the same.  I think we have to and will keep all three, though.  I would say POSSIBLY Lich to Atlanta since Kyle can't get enough of his former o-line down there, but they have Levitre and Mack, and they beat Kory out if they have pneumonia.  So it would be a depth move because he can play all three interior positions. 

If you're looking player for player then it depends on money. 

Best thing to do now is just wait on the trash hit to accumulate and maybe we can find a Center who can beat out Lichtensteiger.

I think I saw someone state they wanted to trade Tolar.  Why?  He has had a great camp and is good depth.  Looks to me like he's our slot corner.  He has a lot of experience in case someone goes down to start in a pinch.  Seems like every time we get depth on the team, everyone is looking to trade it.

5 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

I know it's blasphemy to criticize GMSM, but he did not do a good job this off-season.....There were plenty of opportunities to solidify the D-line, RB, C and pass rusher....instead; we're scrambling for Stork, Cullen Jenkins, etc...

Well, he's not perfect, but to say he didn't do a good job this season is silly.  Are you upset because he didn't take the "name" players you wanted?  What were these opportunities you speak of?  What players do YOU think he should have signed?  I mean, if it was so easy, why didn't HE think of it?

Seriously, fans have really got to stop being so impatient.  You guys act like he can solve 20+ years of dis-function in one year.  You can't just go out and sign a bunch of names.  There are factors involved: Does he fit the scheme?  What's his contract/cost situation?  Why is he a free agent?  Injuries?  etc. You just don't sign guys to sign guys.  That's Vinny 101 there. Forget that.

It doesn't work that way.  I'm no expert either, but I think he's had two solid off-seasons.  I mean, look at the depth of the team now.  Look at how many injuries we had last year, but we kept going.  I said when he was hired, he needed at least 3 off-seasons to turn the mess around.  It's coming.  Be patient.  You can see it. 

Sometimes it's good to have an older veteran on the roster.  Can't have a roster full of 25 year olds.  Let's see what Cullen Jenkins can do before writing him off.  I saw in another thread that he lost weight and is leaner and faster.

 

 

[HanburgerBum]

On 8/28/2016 at 4:42 PM, DC9 said:

 

I agree 100%.  Hopefully the league doesn't trend back that way.  Though if Elliott was available when we picked this year I would've lost my mind if we didn't pick him, I think he's the exception.

I think 2nd round or 3rd round (where we got Jones) is about the right spot to do it.

I wouldn't draft Elliot at No. 4.  I think it to be problematic to draft any RB that high.  Remember Trent Richardson?  I am not saying Elliott would be another Richardson, but he may be.  RB just isn't a position important enough to use such a high pick on any more.

[HanburgerBum]

On 8/28/2016 at 4:58 PM, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Jones is unproven and injury prone....Thompson is a 3rd down back; who's injury prone....Rob Kelley is still just Rob Kelley

if Jones and/or Thompson aren't healthy, then of course the team needs to bring in replacements.  But, if they are healthy, why panic?  As to "Rob Kelley is still just Rob Kelley", that's precisely why the Skins should keep him--and perhaps even start him.  He has shown that he can pass block and he can run adequately with good ball security.  What else would you need?  I think you are allowing his "undrafted" status blind you as to his talents.  There are plenty of undrafted players who have had good NFL careers--some even in the hall of fame.  You also appear to be forgetting that the NFL drafts only 7 rounds nowadays.  In the olden days, players who were drafted very late (and thus would be undrafted today) have later proven to be good players.  Not the least of those is my namesake Chris Hanburger.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

2 minutes ago, HanburgerBum said:

if Jones and/or Thompson aren't healthy, then of course the team needs to bring in replacements.  But, if they are healthy, why panic?  As to "Rob Kelley is still just Rob Kelley", that's precisely why the Skins should keep him--and perhaps even start him.  He has shown that he can pass block and he can run adequately with good ball security.  What else would you need?  I think you are allowing his "undrafted" status blind you as to his talents.  There are plenty of undrafted players who have had good NFL careers--some even in the hall of fame.  You also appear to be forgetting that the NFL drafts only 7 rounds nowadays.  In the olden days, players who were drafted very late (and thus would be undrafted today) have later proven to be good players.  Not the least of those is my namesake Chris Hanburger.

 

I'm all for keeping Rob Kelley, as long as we add another RB

[HanburgerBum]

22 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Part of me wondered when we drafted Marshall, if he was going to be a replacement for Thompson.  They offer similar skillsets and are both unfortunately prone to injury.  But I think a little time on the practice squad will help him get his stuff together.  But I have that as two RBs on the practice squad for now (again, if Mack's eligible - the old rules were so much easier lol) and I'm not sure that's the best way to go.  But I think the way you justify that is that Mack will be the "next man up" and Marshall will be the "groomee."

I am not even sure Marshall deserves a spot on the practice squad.  I have seen nothing from him so far to indicate he is a NFL RB.  Yes, he supposedly has great speed, but I prefer quickness over speed--and, I have not seen much quickness from him.  That's not even the worst part about Marshall.  From what I have seen thus far, he can't pass block.  To me, that pretty much has decided his fate right there.  The coaches won't trust him to protect Cousins, so his presence would telegraph a run.

[HanburgerBum]

7 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I'm all for keeping Rob Kelley, as long as we add another RB

I am not adamantly against having a 4th RB on the roster if there were space.  But, I don't think there would be space.  I think there are higher priorities than a 4th RB.  One such priority would be Sudfeld.  He has ideal NFL size and arm, and it is unclear the Skins can sneak him thru waivers onto the PS.  Why take that risk for a 4th RB?  If you are going to argue that the 3rd string QB will be inactive on game days, that is also the likely fate of the 4th RB.

[HanburgerBum]

6 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

I know it's blasphemy to criticize GMSM, but he did not do a good job this off-season.....There were plenty of opportunities to solidify the D-line, RB, C and pass rusher....instead; we're scrambling for Stork, Cullen Jenkins, etc...

I don't think SM has been perfect this off-season, and I don't think he should be immune from criticism.  But, I do think it to be premature to conclude that he did not do a good job this off-season.  The draft as well as well decisions to pursue or not pursue certain free agents are all part of the off-season.  How can you tell this early that his off-season has been a failure before a single meaningful down has been played?  And, if you are going to conclude his moves are bad, what specifically are his bad moves and what specifically would you have done differently?

[DC9]

1 hour ago, pjfootballer said:

I think I saw someone state they wanted to trade Tolar.  Why?  He has had a great camp and is good depth.  Looks to me like he's our slot corner.  He has a lot of experience in case someone goes down to start in a pinch.  Seems like every time we get depth on the team, everyone is looking to trade it.

Well, he's not perfect, but to say he didn't do a good job this season is silly.  Are you upset because he didn't take the "name" players you wanted?  What were these opportunities you speak of?  What players do YOU think he should have signed?  I mean, if it was so easy, why didn't HE think of it?

 

I wouldn't trade him.  Those are just the only two that I could think of that would be tradable.

[DC9]

1 hour ago, HanburgerBum said:

I wouldn't draft Elliot at No. 4.  I think it to be problematic to draft any RB that high.  Remember Trent Richardson?  I am not saying Elliott would be another Richardson, but he may be.  RB just isn't a position important enough to use such a high pick on any more.

 

I wouldn't take him at 4, either, but I'd certainly take him in the 20s.

Hopefully I'm wrong about him, but dude looks really good.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

So...got to thinking. Cowboys need a QB, we have what some consider a top flight backup QB in McCoy. Personally don't see it with him so maybe that's why my minds going here now.

Anyway what about a trade sending McCoy to the Cowboys for both Running back Darren McFadden and Guard Ronald Leary. That 2 for 1 would help us and help them.

What that does for us is provide a big rb and an excellent Guard for the line for a player we aren't hoping to use. This is Cousins year right? Not to mention this player isn't good, he's just a game manager which on a smash mouth running system makes perfect sense. For us who will struggle with rushing the ball this year we need more gun slinging then that.

McFadden basically sat out the first 5 weeks of last season and then in week 6 to the end went on to have a 1000 yard season one of only 5 guys to do that last year.

Since we would give them a QB I wouldn't do it for either Leary or McFadden straight up but tiogether I would.

 

 

Wouldn't be a Skins offseason without someone overvaluing one of our ****ty backup QBs... lol

Dallas is not trading two guys for Colt McCoy dude...

Dallas is better off gambling with Prescott than trying to start Colt. 

 

[London Kev]

3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

So...got to thinking. Cowboys need a QB, we have what some consider a top flight backup QB in McCoy. Personally don't see it with him so maybe that's why my minds going here now.

<Edited>

The problem I have with this is it would only leave us with Sudfeld as the back-up if KC went down for a few games. He's probably a bit too good to try and stash on the PS, but I don't think he's ready to start an NFL game just yet.
McCoy is a perfect No. 2 and I hope he isn't going anywhere this season.

[DC9]

Interesting write-up from Chris Russell.

Shows two Centers who are being shopped (Sullivan from the Vikings and Lewis from Seattle).  Worth a quick read.

https://www.dchotread.com/2016/08/29/redskins-roster-is-a-roller-coaster

[carex]

I feel like the whole BPA thing isn't working out at least this season.  Who knows when Doctson plays, Fuller is playing pretty good  but so has every one of our CBs, Ioanniddis seems like a PS guy, we don't want Sudfeld to do anything and Daniels and Marshall are hurt.  Cravens might be our best guy by process of elimination.

Wasn't picking DL supposed to be one of Scot's weaknesses?

I saw the rumors about Lewis and Sullivan.  It'd be great if we could swing a trade, especially if we could send a player instead of a pick.  I don't suppose that Seattle needs DL, ILB or CB?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

31 minutes ago, carex said:

I feel like the whole BPA thing isn't working out at least this season.  Who knows when Doctson plays, Fuller is playing pretty good  but so has every one of our CBs, Ioanniddis seems like a PS guy, we don't want Sudfeld to do anything and Daniels and Marshall are hurt.  Cravens might be our best guy by process of elimination.

Wasn't picking DL supposed to be one of Scot's weaknesses?

I saw the rumors about Lewis and Sullivan.  It'd be great if we could swing a trade, especially if we could send a player instead of a pick.  I don't suppose that Seattle needs DL, ILB or CB?

Save this post til at least November man.

 

Nobody knew what we had in Reed, Breeland, Smith, etc in the August of their rookie years.

[carex]

18 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Save this post til at least November man.

 

Nobody knew what we had in Reed, Breeland, Smith, etc in the August of their rookie years.

 Have to play to do that though

[petedaddy]

59 minutes ago, carex said:

I feel like the whole BPA thing isn't working out at least this season.  Who knows when Doctson plays, Fuller is playing pretty good  but so has every one of our CBs, Ioanniddis seems like a PS guy, we don't want Sudfeld to do anything and Daniels and Marshall are hurt.  Cravens might be our best guy by process of elimination.

Wasn't picking DL supposed to be one of Scot's weaknesses?

I saw the rumors about Lewis and Sullivan.  It'd be great if we could swing a trade, especially if we could send a player instead of a pick.  I don't suppose that Seattle needs DL, ILB or CB?

can't criticize BPA strategy because of injuries

none of us can make any assumptions on doctson at this point, his main value was next season anyways

[SkinsPassion4Life]

4 hours ago, HanburgerBum said:

I don't think SM has been perfect this off-season, and I don't think he should be immune from criticism.  But, I do think it to be premature to conclude that he did not do a good job this off-season.  The draft as well as well decisions to pursue or not pursue certain free agents are all part of the off-season.  How can you tell this early that his off-season has been a failure before a single meaningful down has been played?  And, if you are going to conclude his moves are bad, what specifically are his bad moves and what specifically would you have done differently?

 

I like Scot...I like his philosophy...I prefer him over Vinny and Bruce.....but....If you look at it, his drafting and free agency over 2 years has been mediocre

Just about every free agent signing has not worked out....I'm not giving him credit for Norman...we all know that Dan/Vinny/Bruce would have signed him.

Draft wise....Scherff over Leonard Williams.....Matt Jones in the 3rd round when there were better RB's available, such as Jeremy Langford....this year he gave away our 4th round pick when there were quality RB's available like Kenneth Dixon and Devontae Booker

Neglecting our needs this off-season.

Hopefully it works out.