20/20 Hindsight game: What if we had drafted Todd Gurley last year?

[50yrSKINSfan]

I was really surprised when we didn't take Williams. Seemed like a gift the way he dropped. I'm not sure you can complain too much about Scherff. We stabalized a line that had been a sieve for a decade. Some of that may have been RGIII, but a lot of it was the line. The move looks better with the emergence of Moses.

 

I think there are a lot of what if's... but I was pretty content with Morris before the draft. Clearly, we need better production in the running game (and just a greater volume of runs). I hope both will happen just because the blocking has improved, Jones is a year better, and we have some TE's who can contribute.

Getting a Gurley class of RB would be nice,but it might be like having Walter Peyton on all those Bears' teams that could never win. Great back, but no wins.

I wanted Williams too. Thought it was foolish to pass on what a lot of people had him as best player in the draft but there may have been some prob that caused him to slip. Anyway, water over the dam. Think Scherff has helped us but think he should not have been drafted 5 overall. We needed both O line and D line help so I guess it is O.K. I think in todays game RB are not as important as they used to be so getting a good one later in the draft is acceptable. By the way Walter Peyton won alot, including 1 SB. A lot more than we do.

[Koolblue13]

Was Scherff kind of a reach? Maybe.

If at 5, you can get a guy who's probably going to be an all pro guard, that can kick out to tackle later in his career, you absolutely do that.

[Jumbo]

Boy was I wrong idiot.

 

I've spent many a night in that hotel.

[Koolblue13]

I've spent many a night in that hotel.

I have no problem waving my ignorant opinion around like fact, when it comes to football and even less of a problem admitting how dumb I sounded. It's a gift I think.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I have no problem waving my ignorant opinion around like fact, when it comes to football and even less of a problem admitting how dumb I sounded. It's a gift I think.

I had to do the same when I was mad we took Williams over Okung. Guess that's why I'm not a NFL GM.

[Cooleyfan1993]

I had to do the same when I was mad we took Williams over Okung. Guess that's why I'm not a NFL GM.

Where is okung now anyway? Seems like his career hasn't been nearly as good as Trent Williams career

[Koolblue13]

I had to do the same when I was mad we took Williams over Okung. Guess that's why I'm not a NFL GM.

there's guaranteed to be at least one player from every draft who is picked late in the draft, but goes on to an all pro career, proving everyone can get it wrong, even the best several times a draft.

Hell, top rated corner last year was a 5th rounder.

[HanburgerBum]

I was waiting for someone else to correct you here since I didn't want to be "that guy", but you're talking about the wrong DT here. The Jets took Leonard Williams after our pick. And his rookie season was good, but not one where'd you'd say "he looks to be elite".

Granted, they have a stud line (one of whom is the Sheldon Richardson you speak of) and so it was tough for him to really nab a starting spot there, but still, according to the media and pre-draft hype he should've been a monster, right?

Here's an article written in November on him mentioning this:

 

More at the link.

I believe he finished the year with only 2.5 sacks, but by most accounts he was a very good run stopper. At best, you can say he had a good rookie season. Like I said, not one where you'd automatically assume "he looks to be an elite DT".

It's too early to judge whether Sherff or Williams ends up the better pick, but if you're basing it on their rookie seasons alone you certainly can't come away with Williams being the better choice. Not yet, at least.

That being said, I do agree with your overall point that it's an interesting debate. Their careers will likely be forever linked.

I wonder, though, how Leonard would've fit in our defense. He'd likely be more of a DE, since I believe he lined up as a DT in more 4-3 formations with the Jets than anything else, alongside guys like Richardson and Wilkerson... so who knows how that would've affected his run stopping prowess. And having guys like Wilkerson and Richardson beside him had to have generally helped in a major way.

It's definitely intriguing.

 

You are right that I did mix up Sheldon Richardson with Leonard Williams.  As I said before, I don't really have any real quarrel with picking Scherff over L Wms if that were the only choices involved.  But, I do think a case can be made for picking L Wms at No. 5 over Scherff and then using a late rounder on Lael Collins, given how weak the Skins Dline appears to be.  L Wms may never be an elite pass rush guy, but I think there is little doubt he would be a fine run-stopper.  The Skins' run defense was among the worst in the League last season.

 

We should also remember that Scherff was drafted to play RT, then a position of desperate need.  But, apparently, the team found out in training camp that his foot quickness is not ideal for tackle and moved him inside.  The Skins got very lucky that Morgan Mosses stepped up and became a really good solution at RT.  Having said that, if Scherff has a career at guard that is anything like Russ Grimm's career, he will have turned out to be a tremendous pick.

[HanburgerBum]

Was Scherff kind of a reach? Maybe.

If at 5, you can get a guy who's probably going to be an all pro guard, that can kick out to tackle later in his career, you absolutely do that.

 

I may be wrong, but isn't it just the reverse?  Tackles sometimes get kicked inside to play guard, but not the other way around.  As I understand it, the tackle position requires quicker feet than the guard position.  Players tend to lose quickness, not gain it, as they age.  So, moving from T to G later in a career would make sense, but not the other way around.

[HanburgerBum]

 

Full disclosure I was a big fan of taking Scherff from day one. There were questions concerns about Williams  health - I knee I think - which is why I understand he fell. But maybe not. Just going off memory here. But the missing part of this discussion is that with a 2nd rd pick in Preston Smith, we got a pass rusher that was at least as productive as LW if not more so. Certainly in terms of production he was better as earned more and more snaps as the season went on.

 

 

 

 

I think Preston Smith and Leonard Williams play different positions.  Smith is an edge rusher, OLB, and appears to be a really good one too.  Wms plays Dline and is more of a run-stopper.  It would not be redundant to pick Wms in round 1 and Smith in round 2.

[SkinsFTW]

 L Wms may never be an elite pass rush guy, but I think there is little doubt he would be a fine run-stopper.  The Skins' run defense was among the worst in the League last season.

 

We are going to be scoring so many points that nobody is going to be running the ball on us anyway.

 

I heard it on ES so it must be true

[HanburgerBum]

As lucky as it was for the Cowboys, it was 10x unluckier for Collins. He lost out on millions and lots of security, both financial and contractual.

 

Yes, Collins was very unlucky to have that happen to him.  But, his misfortune presented an opportunity for a smart GM to steal him in the late rounds.  i was very disappointed that McCloughan got bluffed out by Collins' agent along with all the other GMs.  As the draft proceeded, I was screaming for the Skins to draft him from the 5th round on--even with Scherff already on board.  I did not believe in Collins' bluff.  Besides, if Collins were to carry out his threat and refuse to sign, doesn't the drafting team get a "replacement" pick the following draft?  Even if not, what is the big deal with losing a low round pick when the potential gain is a projected 1st round talent falling to a late round?

[goskins10]

Yes, Collins was very unlucky to have that happen to him.  But, his misfortune presented an opportunity for a smart GM to steal him in the late rounds.  i was very disappointed that McCloughan got bluffed out by Collins' agent along with all the other GMs.  As the draft proceeded, I was screaming for the Skins to draft him from the 5th round on--even with Scherff already on board.  I did not believe in Collins' bluff.  Besides, if Collins were to carry out his threat and refuse to sign, doesn't the drafting team get a "replacement" pick the following draft?  Even if not, what is the big deal with losing a low round pick when the potential gain is a projected 1st round talent falling to a late round?

 

Because you don't want anyone on your team that would even bluff this kind of bull****. I don't care how good he is. I obviously don;t know, but I believe that's what Scot's position is. At some point the guy has a very good chance of being a headache. Possibly not. But it's not worth the chance of bringing a potential knucklehead into your team.

[LD0506]

The "what iffery?" here overlooks the fact that if we hadn't taken Scherff, he woulda been a Giant. That right there would have cancelled out any RB pick we made and hurt us for years to come, along with a lesser line would have made a RBs job a lot harder.

 

I have always been a fan of the big guys up front and don't believe they ever get the credit due them, so I was thrilled that we added strength up front, along with Callahan directing them. Single biggest improvements in recent years hands down.

 

I was pulling for Scot to take Kelly @ C this year, another O lineman, so we'd have had another bout of "oh noes!" if that had panned out I guess. Core strength ain't in flashy players, you can find guys to make plays if the heart of the machine runs, the line protects, the QB stays upright, etc.

 

 

[goskins10]

The "what iffery?" here overlooks the fact that if we hadn't taken Scherff, he woulda been a Giant. That right there would have cancelled out any RB pick we made and hurt us for years to come, along with a lesser line would have made a RBs job a lot harder.

 

I have always been a fan of the big guys up front and don't believe they ever get the credit due them, so I was thrilled that we added strength up front, along with Callahan directing them. Single biggest improvements in recent years hands down.

 

I was pulling for Scot to take Kelly @ C this year, another O lineman, so we'd have had another bout of "oh noes!" if that had panned out I guess. Core strength ain't in flashy players, you can find guys to make plays if the heart of the machine runs, the line protects, the QB stays upright, etc.

 

I made the same point about the gnats taking Scherff to every person who said trade down and still get him. He was being taken by the gnats who desperately needed online help. They did in fact take oline with #9.

 

As for Kelly, I was on your page but he was not available when we picked. Not sure it was worth moving up for. I believe we got the best WR in the draft. I hope this achilles heel thing doesn't turn into a lingering issue. But he had no injury history so there was no way to know this might happen.

[NickyJ]

Where is okung now anyway? Seems like his career hasn't been nearly as good as Trent Williams career

Better question: What happened to Selvish Capers? He was hyped up to be better than both of them. We got him late, and then he disappeared a few years later.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Better question: What happened to Selvish Capers? He was hyped up to be better than both of them. We got him late, and then he disappeared a few years later.

We did? I thought someone else drafted him.

[bobandweave]

Interesting question. To me we made the right choice. You always build up the Lines, always without exception, and then direct the offense based on who else is on the team. The better the offensive line the better the production you can get out of it. Example only 6 men last season rushed for over 1000 rushing yards in the league. From those 6 men one of them was Darren McFadden. We all know that McFadden is garbage, but it's that superior offensive line that allowed him to do that.

 

Either the offensive line makes up for the lesser talented players or the player makes up for the lesser talented offensive line like a Barry Sanders. Clearly in Dalass last year it was the Offensive line doing the work and getting more out of the player then the player did for the line. Our line did for us what we needed it to do last season, and that was limit Cousins sacks to a top 5 lowest in the league. For us our direction of the offense insists on protection not rush blocking. Also while we play the what if game it's important to remember who Todd Gurley was last season. He went into the draft as an injured RB no one knew then how he would recover from injury or how he would play. Perfect for a team willing to take a risk, but a risk never the less.

 

We have to understand the direction our teams heading vs our competition. We are being managed by a former QB now and you can see the effects that is having on the team. All signs are pointing to us being a passing first team going forward with us drafting Doctson and Crowder the past two seasons. When you draft a RB with a top 5 pick your not looking to do that, your looking at doing the opposite.

 

The Rams and Dalass aren't leaning that way now. They have very weak receivers on those teams so they will want to play run first offense and limit the passing games. I think its possible that had we drafted Gurley it very well could have stunted Cousins maturation last season. We would have been forced to get value from that pick and rushed more then we did. We thankfully do not have a terrible QB like Case Keenum or a QB who is 35 going on retirement that you want to limit his throws and exposure like they do. We have a 27 year old budding superstar in the prime of his career on this team you want to put the ball into his hands and say PASS. We are in different boats then those teams so Gurley wouldn't have made sense for us but a linemen linchpin that will likely be a 10 year player, who helped limit the sacks the QB took significantly makes much more sense for us then confusing the teams identity with a top 5 RB selection would do. 

[CommDownMan]

or would it have severely hampered the development of Cousins, Reed, Crowder and the passing game?

 

Answered your own question.  Gurley and no Scherff and we don't see the Cousins that was worthy of franchise tag.  

 

Peterson over Landry, now there's something I'd switch.  

[bobandweave]

Answered your own question.  Gurley and no Scherff and we don't see the Cousins that was worthy of franchise tag.  

 

Peterson over Landry, now there's something I'd switch.  

 

I wouldn't, AP is great but a Dbag off the field and I wouldn't have wanted to live through that crap a few years ago he put his team through. But on paper sure I would have done that but knowing that I'm glad we didn't.

[SkinsFTW]

I wouldn't, AP is great but a Dbag off the field and I wouldn't have wanted to live through that crap a few years ago he put his team through. But on paper sure I would have done that but knowing that I'm glad we didn't.

Patrick Willis or Revis then.

I wonder who Mac would've picked...

[Conn]

Willis, probably. Wasn't that his guy?

[CommDownMan]

I wouldn't, AP is great but a Dbag off the field and I wouldn't have wanted to live through that crap a few years ago he put his team through. But on paper sure I would have done that but knowing that I'm glad we didn't.

 

Landry wasn't exactly a non-Dbag, but the year off due to issues with Peterson would have been tough.  

 

Minnesota has gotten loads more production out of Peterson than we did Landry.  

 

As others have stated, we could do this over and over with picks.  I just went this way because it was an RB and it's was debated when that draft happened.  Not quite like Brady, as no one was thinking about him in round 1 (I don't recall people gunning for Revis at the time, but I have no idea).  More like Williams vs Scherff last year, people wanted Williams, not many said Gurley.   

[pjfootballer]

We did? I thought someone else drafted him.

We took him in the 7th round.

[bobandweave]

Patrick Willis or Revis then.

I wonder who Mac would've picked...

 

You had me at Willis. Damn I miss watching him play