Riggo#44

All Things Star Wars Thread -- Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

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Yay fanboy scores!

 

Gamergate culture has absolutely ruined scoring for the newer SW films. The hate for female protagonists and the insidiousness of that culture leads me to believe that nothing could be made that would appease them other than a male dominated movie full of half naked women (those can be good too but they aren't the SW universe). 

 

I think I'll just keep watching them and enjoy them for what they are.

Edited by The Evil Genius
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1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Phantom Menace is at 55%...

 

I would watch Phantom Menace before I would watch The Last Jedi

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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3 hours ago, Burgold said:

I view Lucas a lot like I view Gene Roddenbury. Roddenbury was one of the best plotters or idea men of his generations. He wasn't a great writer though. Luckily, Twilight Zone and Star Trek had others to do the actual screenwriting. Lucas is also a really good idea man. Star Wars, Tucker, Tuskegee Airmen, American Graffiti, Indiana Jones, even Willow were all great story ideas, but Lucas' best films were almost always the one where he handed off his idea to someone else.

 

Lucas has directed 6 movies: THX1138, American Graffiti, Star Wars: A New Hope, Phantom Menace. Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith.

I'd say that 3 hits, 3 misses. Not particularly impressive. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I would watch Phantom Menace before I would watch The Last Jedi

 

The prequels have grown on me over the years. They still don't compare to the OT, but if I see one on TV or something, I usually stick with it and watch. Some of the actors help, for sure. 

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3 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Yay fanboy scores!

 

Gamergate culture has absolutely ruined scoring for the newer SW films. The hate for female protagonists and the insidiousness of that culture leads me to believe that nothing could be made that would appease them other than a male dominated movie full of half naked women (those can be good too but they aren't the SW universe). 

 

I think I'll just keep watching them and enjoy them for what they are.

That's where I'm at.

 

I have my issues with the film, but that's because I would have written it differently. I wouldn't have had so  many split story lines and I would have handled Luke differently. That said, my inner writer will always want to tinker and I try to judge the film more on what it is then what I want. With that in mind, I had fun with TFA, TLJ, and with Rogue One. None were perfect movies, but all entertained and took me for a ride.

 

The after curtain quibble takes a backseat to the theater experience. I happily acknowledge the plot holes. I nearly lost a muffler driving over a few of them. Solo was even more treacherous, but even with Solo... I had fun. Solo was a fine escapist 2 star summer movie. The Last Jedi I'd say was a three star vehicle. 

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Thanks for the reminder... I need to check out Solo. 

End of the day it is just a movie. None of it makes sense if you really break it down. 

Ben allowed himself to be killed, Vader the same basically. 

Han knew what his son was... dead. 

Thing with Vader is that he was the most powerful supposedly...then why did he have a master ? 

Yoda was amazing...yet died of old age ? 

 

All of it is silly, but yet I still am interested in the story. 

The cartoons don't match up for me. I can't get into them at all. 

Edited by Kosher Ham
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13 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

The cartoons don't match up for me. I can't get into them at all. 

That's what I'm concerned about - I was planning to check out the Clone Wars or Rebels series but it seems so different that I'm doubtful it'll feel the same. 

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38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

That's what I'm concerned about - I was planning to check out the Clone Wars or Rebels series but it seems so different that I'm doubtful it'll feel the same. 

One thing I thought Rebels did really well was the oppression of the Empire.

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1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

One thing I thought Rebels did really well was the oppression of the Empire.

 

It's on my list of things to watch, but I'm horrible at multi-tasking when it comes to shows. I need to finish Halt And Catch Fire. 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I would watch Phantom Menace before I would watch The Last Jedi

Whoa, hey now. Let’s not say anything that we can’t take back.

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52 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Whoa, hey now. Let’s not say anything that we can’t take back.

 

If I'm gonna take it back, it ain't gonna be with Flying Leia :ols:

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

If I'm gonna take it back, it ain't gonna be with Flying Leia :ols:

 

 

Maybe with Junk 3PO instead?

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20 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

I 100% disagree.  The hard core fans just want good logically consistent stories.  There were good stories here to be told that would have fit in the universe that the hard core fans would have eaten up.  Disney just didn't have people that could find those stories.

 

The irony is that Solo suffered the least from the problems, but because of this boycott, has suffered the most at the box office despite I think being the best of the new bunch of movies.  

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Just saw the Last Jedi again (for the second time), this time on Blu Ray. I had the subtitles on it so I could follow every bit of the plot and dialogue. 

 

When it comes down to it, there is one single problem with this movie. It is too long. I mean WAY too long. It is 2hrs and 32 minutes. You needed to take probably 40-50 minutes off of that. And then you'd have a pretty solid movie.

 

As it is, it IS a good movie, but is so damn long that by the time the show down on Crait occurs, you've long stopped caring. Hopefully Johnson learns his lesson from this in future SW movies.  

Edited by Mournblade
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39 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

A good "analysis" of why Johnson took Luke where he went, even though the title is awful.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a22139405/luke-skywalker-star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

 

 

1.  Pacifist don't run away.  MLK Ghandi, etc.  The idea that pacifism requires withdrawing is a dangerous idea.

 

2.  Then why was he training a new generation of Jedi warriors.

 

3.   He's not being pacifist because he believes in pacifism. He's being pacifist because he's afraid of failure.  Hence the speech from Yoda on the ability of failure as a teacher.  He acts in the only way he can due to the timing of events and his realization that he was wrong for withdrawing after Yoda talks to him about the power of failure as a teacher.

 

(I like the idea, but it isn't consistent with Johnson's own story.  An active pacifist Luke would have been an interesting idea, but that's not really what we see.)

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Though, he's right about the end of ROJ,  Though, I'm not sure about the claim that many Star Wars fans read it the wrong way.

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28 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

He's not being pacifist because he believes in pacifism. He's being pacifist because he's afraid of failure. 

 

It's not just his failure--it's the cumulative failure of the Order: his failure with Kylo, Obi-Wans with Vader, the Orders failure in general allowing Sidious to rise and wipe them out. It makes  more sense why hes in hiding. TLJ is also about Luke's redemption.

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32 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

It's not just his failure--it's the cumulative failure of the Order: his failure with Kylo, Obi-Wans with Vader, the Orders failure in general allowing Sidious to rise and wipe them out. It makes  more sense why hes in hiding. TLJ is also about Luke's redemption.

 

Okay, but it still he isn't being a pacifist because he has a strong belief in pacifism, and it is most directly his failure.  He is the Order, and it is was his specific failure in training Ben that lead him to withdraw.

 

Luke doesn't withdraw because he's a pacifist, and he doesn't see any way to present and not be a pacifist.  He withdraws because he's afraid of more failure and making the situation worse.

 

It is a very poor movie about his redemption then, because we have no sense of why he needs to be redeemed (and realistically, his failure).


Every sense is that Ben had already been turned when Luke acted, and it was just the nature of Ben Solo (even going back to TFA this is set up where Han says something about he had too much of his grandfather).  There isn't even much of a sense that Luke did anything wrong that likely would have resulted in a different out come.

 

If they wanted to make a good movie about the failure of Luke and his redemption, they first needed to setup there was real failure and a real need for redemption.

 

(And I think movies with Luke as a strong pacifist could have been done well and gone over well, but TLJ isn't really about pacifism, but about failure.)

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It seems to me that Luke's only failure here is his seeming belief that his only utility would be to defeat the whole First Order army on his own and so withdrawing because he doesn't see that as a good option.  His failure is seeing he has utility in other ways

 

And then he redeems that by "showing up" and being useful in saving the resistance without having to actually defeat the whole First Order.

 

But that's pretty weak.

 

(What you see in many cases and here, I think, are people trying to rationalize a bad movie.  The movie isn't about Luke having a belief in pacifism.  Luke isn't withdrawn because of a strong belief in pacifism.  Luke is withdrawn because he's afraid of more failure.  The reason people don't like this movie isn't because is shows a pacifist Luke because that's not really the case.  This person has made up an excuse for why this movie isn't liked that isn't really in the movie to avoid accepting people don't like it because it is a bad movie.)

Edited by PeterMP
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Rey shows up and says we need you to come back.  Luke even shows a level of very personal pacifism and says, if I come back, I'm going to have to face Ben Solo and I won't kill him, but I think he might kill me, and I don't want to die or me dying isn't going to do any good, etc.

 

Potentially interesting/good movie, but a very different movie then what it was.

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