Assorted Militia/SovCit news,(formerly Bundy thread)

[tshile]

3 hours ago, Predicto said:

Not my fault if you don't find that compelling, bub.

 

I know some pretty smart, pretty successful people that believe that stuff.

I'm talking multi-million dollar people who made their money through hard work, being good at their job, and being wise with their money. Not born into money in any way.

It's remarkable. And scary. 

[Mr. Sinister]

31 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

[Mr. Sinister]

13 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

@Mr. Sinister. We can agree to disagree on how it will play out.  Neither of us really know.  But I look at the riots in places like Baltimore and think the government will give much leeway before shooting people in the streets.

Huh?

[Mr. Sinister]

39 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Hillary: The most divisive President ever. 

Figure we'll get several shots of reporters posted up near big electronics stores, remarking how desperate and resourceful these people are,  locked in a battle for survival.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Mr. Sinister

[TheGreatBuzz]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Huh?

You seem to take a position that we can only have riots if the people are willing to go to civil war level against the government.  I was saying we don't really know either way.  And I was pointing to Baltimore to show that riots happen without a civil war level.  Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?

[Mr. Sinister]

I said using your scenario (Sovereign Cirizens/militia types inciting large scale riots across the US), there's no other choice but to go all out Red Dawn, which I keep saying, is highly unlikely, to which you argue the opposite.

 

How we went from that to we don't know what will happen if a bunch of heavily armed nutjobs oppose law enforcement, I dunno. I mean all I have is history, past and present, and a general understanding of how leos deal with heavily armed psychopaths, to tell me how that usually goes down.

 

Then how we go from that to the Baltimore riots show that the police may think twice about shooting  crazed Sovereign Citizens carrying gigantic machine guns, I seriously don't know.

I think this would be the wrong time to stand in opposition to a leo with a gigantic gun. Seems to be the wrong time just following orders from a cop (but thats another discussion). But I don't see the relevance of that statement

A group known for killing cops, believing themselves above law enforcement, and carrying big guns in the process, is not going to be treated the same as some overzealous protestor outside of their free speech zone, or someone with a brick.

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think I figured out where the confusion is.  You ignored what I said.....

 

 

Quote where I mentioned Sovereign Citizens and such.  I'll wait.......

[mistertim]

With Trump already preemptively telling his supporters that the election will be rigged and if he loses it will be because the election was stolen, I could see some of those mouth breathers going (more) insane and becoming violent. And you know he isn't going to back down from that claim...just like any other lie, he'll keep repeating it over and over and his herd will swallow it up.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think I figured out where the confusion is.  You ignored what I said.....

 

 

Quote where I mentioned Sovereign Citizens and such.  I'll wait.......

You're making me nervous...

[TheGreatBuzz]

About what?

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

With Trump already preemptively telling his supporters that the election will be rigged and if he loses it will be because the election was stolen, I could see some of those mouth breathers going (more) insane and becoming violent. And you know he isn't going to back down from that claim...just like any other lie, he'll keep repeating it over and over and his herd will swallow it up.

That's what I'm trying to say.  And it won't just be crazy militia types.  It'll be all levels of idiots.  Don't know why sinister isn't getting what I'm saying.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

About what?

You:  insist that that no one misconstrue your words for supporting (maybe you weren't sure who was being discussed, but Sovereign Citizens, nutty mitia types, etc that think they're fighting the devil, really not all that different from each other) or agreeing with the above statement(s)

 

I: Am immediately suspicious

 

You: Claim EVERYONE is divided (I am going to assume you meant the election process, since you specifically mentioned November)

I: Point out that in regards to this issue, its pretty much split right down the line between Hopelessly Stupid/We Can Work This Out. In other words, not much division, certainly not as much as we think (and we're meant to think there is A LOT)

You: Claim there could be largescale civil unrest on the part of said people (Sovereign Citizens,  people who believe they're fighting the devil, King George, Sauron, etc)

 

I: Say they're all chicken****s who don't truly believe in their cause to that extent, and though there will surely be some violence, c err rtainly not any large scale extended violence, because they'd be hard pressed in finding support, and because they'd basically be facing certain death, battling Uncle Sam's finest

 

You: Claim you just  meant riots, not civil war level stuff.

 

I: Say that a civil war type of situation is inevitable, if these people are as dangerous as you claim, and will most certainly be willing to kill anyone, and would be carrying a lot of firepower.

 

You: Agree to disagree on how it will play out, then proceed to say neither of us knows how it will play out... Despite there being protocol, and history that clearly illustrates how it will play out.

 

You: Claim that Baltimore rioters armed with bricks, blunt instruments, peace signs, etc (and the riots themselves), shows you that the govt would think twice before shooting heavily armed wackjobs (plenty with military experience), which would be your target audience, if you were follwing the thread convo

 

I: am completely lost on how the hell we got here

 

You: Claim I said stuff I didn't say. Mention you may have misunderstood me. Double down on "We don't know what will happen"

 

I: narrate our trip down this rabbit hole, and reiterate previous points

 

You: Claim you neve mentioned Sovereign   Citizens. Dare me to point out where you did... sidestepping away from the fact that I no longer have any idea what the hell you are talking about, and going with something not much better than "I know you are but what am I?" (Ftr, all these nutjobs groups, they kinda all run along the same thought pattern for the most part. It's like choosing between Levi's and Wrangler.... in other words, that kind of weird retort is not gonna help whatever argument you are now trying to make)

 

 

 

I: Am very nervous 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Mr. Sinister

[No Excuses]

Alex Jones and Joe Farah have been running the rigged narrative hardcore. Jones keeps telling his people that Trump is really up double digits but the MSM is lying through polls to make the Hillary victory seem legit.

Theres been a merger amongst the InfoWars/PrisonPlanet and WorldNetDaily crowd since Farah went on Jones radio show to revel in their undying love of Trump. 

 

Hannity also pushed the rigged narrative last week.

 

The right wing has gone full on lunatic. I doubt there's a mass revolt but an emboldened far right militia is no joke. All it takes is a few super morons, in a large assembly of morons, to do something insane. And almost all of them are fairly insane to begin with.

[Larry]

Just pointing out that it's not even preseason, yet. So I suspect it's a bit premature to be predicting Hillary landslides and Trump militia mass riots. 

We survived a W win. I suspect we can survive a Trump loss. 

[Mr. Sinister]

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

Just pointing out that it's not even preseason, yet. So I suspect it's a bit premature to be predicting Hillary landslides and Trump militia mass riots. 

We survived a W win. I suspect we can survive a Trump loss. 

Conspiracy machine wasn't as strong back then. 

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

Just pointing out that it's not even preseason, yet. So I suspect it's a bit premature to be predicting Hillary landslides and Trump militia mass riots. 

We survived a W win. I suspect we can survive a Trump loss. 

 

Code Pink and listeners of Alex Jones/Joe Farah are really quite different. 

 

A modern presidential candidate has never declared months in advance that the election will be rigged. And then have a good chunk of the media spread it around more.

 

It doesn't even have to be a landslide. Millions of people are going to believe the "election was stolen" narrative if Trump loses. And a decent amount of these people are either parts of right wing militias or sympathizes of them.

[Mr. Sinister]

14 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

I doubt there's a mass revolt but an emboldened far right militia is no joke. All it takes is a few super morons, in a large assembly of morons, to do something insane. And almost all of them are fairly insane to begin with.

Yeah I'll take the insane ones that don't train in camps in the wilderness and have extensive knife fighting and small arms/ assault rifle training. 

[mistertim]

Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Code Pink and listeners of Alex Jones/Joe Farah are really quite different. 

 

A modern presidential candidate has never declared months in advance that the election will be rigged. And then have a good chunk of the media spread it around more.

 

It doesn't even have to be a landslide. Millions of people are going to believe the "election was stolen" narrative if Trump loses. And a decent amount of these people are either parts of right wing militias or sympathizes of them.

If you go onto places where there are tons of Trump supporters like WND, Breitbart, or Free Republic, they are all already convinced that the fix is in. They've completely bypassed the whole "maybe we should look for proof" and "is this logical?" aspects and are now into the planning stages of how to react WHEN the election is stolen. Trump has them hook, line, and sinker.

They also all are completely convinced that the polls are being manipulated by the media for Hillary as well. Of course, none of them have any actual proof, but that has never stopped them before. Basically they (and Trump) are finding any way they can to make sure that they don't have to face an actual Trump defeat, just a rigged election, because the alternative would be having to admit or even think about the possibility that their views are not shared by most. And critical thinking about their beliefs is complete anathema to them.

[Destino]

In 2000 the extreme left (alt-left?) was calling the mainstream media the "corporate media" and millions believed the election had been stolen.  Not could be or would be, but had in fact been stolen.  In 2004 the story was that diebold voter machine were programmed to steal the election.  They wanted Bush and his people jailed for that and war crimes.  

Political radicals believing the other side is criminal and illegitimate, is nothing new.  The internet just gives them more exposure, but this doesn't mean there will be any widespread violence or some militia fantasy civil war.     

Also let's remember that for Alex Jones, believing that Hillary is stealing an election seems uncharacteristically tame.  His covering the election has made him look like another partisan hack, but he's not that.  He's this:

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

16 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

You:  insist that that no one misconstrue your words for supporting (maybe you weren't sure who was being discussed, but Sovereign Citizens, nutty mitia types, etc that think they're fighting the devil, really not all that different from each other) or agreeing with the above statement(s).......................

 

 

 

 

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well the first time so let me try again.

 

As far as everyone divided, I think there is a big divide between the two sides and the people that support the two sides.  I think this is backed up by the polling that shows that Trump, for all his craziness, is still polling in 35% (roughly) of the electorate.  That comes out to about 111 million people.  Lets drop that to 60 million just to make sure we are safely inside any margin of error.  That is still a whole lot of really stupid people.  Many of whom have no association to Sovereign citizens or anything like that.  Many are just plain stupid.  Now lets say that a small portion of THOSE people are stupid enough to cause some sort of civil unrest because their guy didn't win and their guy keeps telling them how he should have won but the system was rigged against them, etc.  So lets say those people make up 10% of Trump supporters.  That's 6 million people ready to cause some rioting.  That's a lot.

 

I'm not saying they will try a Oregon militia takeover.  But I can see them just rioting similar to what we saw in Baltimore.  Destroying property, setting things on fire, etc.  Now we also know that when things like that happen, it draws in more people that wouldn't normally do these types of things.  so lets say what started as 6 million rioters grows to 7 million.  And these people are rioting because 1) they're stupid and 2) they have been sold on the fact that their government has been stolen from them.  I don't think that the governments answer to that will be to start shooting them in the streets.  So I think there will possibly be a week of riots spread in small pockets across at least the few states that are still polling heavy for Trump.  Hell, the LA riots lasted 5 days just on their own. 

 

Now neither one of us really know what is going to happen.  Sure we can look at examples from the past but I don't think we have ever seen a comparable situation where 60+million people are supporting someone so crazy and that person continuous to say dangerous things and the media and internet serve as an echo chamber to make all of those people think they are right.  But I'll put it at a 20% chance of this happening.

 

I consider a 1 in 5 chance that 7 million people will start rioting across the country as a good reason to make sure my pantry is stocked.  And that was my original point.  No where am I supporting someone rioting.  No where do I think it will be tied directly to a Sovereign Citizen movement.

 

Hopefully this clears up what I am trying to say. 

[Mr. Sinister]

Crystal

[TheGreatBuzz]

and do you disagree with any parts of that?

[Mr. Sinister]

41 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

and do you disagree with any parts of that?

Yes

41 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I guess you don't care to expand on that?

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I guess you don't care to expand on that?

Just remove angry sov citizen/militia types from all my posts, and insert Bill from the local bingo hall