Skinsinparadise Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 OK. But then none of them being efficient had anything to do with Barry or Fewell... Assuming that's defending Barry or Fewell? If so I haven't taken a position really on Barry outside of saying hard for me to see he's an improvement or for that matter that he's not an improvement. I found Cooley's critique interesting because if I had to come up with a typical slant for him it would be he's pro-Jay regime and he has the coaches back. He didn't kill Barry this week but like I said he didn't seem enamored with how he schemes up the defense and he doesn't think the defense looks or plays smart. Conversely, last week when he was talking up the NE defense, he said they weren't ultra talented but made up for it by how organized and scheme sound the defense was -- he seemed to be barking up the tree that the Redskins defense is the reverse of being scheme sound. For me personally, if I had to pick a position on him, its been his grade is incomplete. Lets see how the season plays out. But if someone likes him or dislikes him -- I see reason for both. Talk about straddling the fence. It's just for me I can see the argument going either way on Barry, IMO lets see another 8 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 OK. But then none of them being efficient had anything to do with Barry or Fewell... That's tricky, because if you give them credit for the others, then you have to knock them for Robinson's play. I'm with SIP - undecided on Barry right now. I see the injuries, talent issues, and the fact it's the first year in a new scheme, and a secondary that's performing in spite of all of that. OTOH, I see questionable scheme decisions and guys playing undisciplined (missing gaps, etc.). Certainly willing to wait and see where things go from here before judging to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I'm not saying they're perfect in any way. Just that's there's progress ongoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 I think we've have moved up from putrid last year to at least average. I still think we are far from being an elite team, but there are times I can see us nearing good team status. What does that mean. I think we are a C+ team who on a good day can beat a B team, on a bad day can lose to a D team, but are generally competitive against the middle teams, borderline playoff teams, and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I thought and said before yesterday, it was a big game - potential turning point for the season going north or south. They won. They have arguably won every must win game -- that's new from the past -- and that's great. So I give the coaching staff credit. Now I'd love to see an upset on the road for a change. We seem to give some teams a fight on the road for some of the game and then think well they almost beat a good team on the road so nice try -- then like a week or two later that same team we lost too indeed does get upset by some other team. Lets be that team for a change! Jay's record on the road is abysmal. If that changes, another big step IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 To defend Darrell Green Fan's point. Jarrett looks like a good find and seems miles better than Biggers in the slot. And, based on that alone its arguably a better secondary. Speaking of Cooley, he would go on and on about Biggers being an outright train wreck in the slot when he did his film study. I think strong safety is equally bad this year and last year. Otherwise, Goldson is an improvement IMO (and Cooleys') over last years banged up Ryan Clark. Culliver when healthy is a clear improvement as the #2 or #1 corner -- plus even though Hall has been banged up, at least he's going to play versus missing all of last season. Heck even Blackmon looks all right. I think its far from crazy to suggest that the secondary talent wise is better than last year. Is it elite? Of course not. Better than last year, I think its hard to argue otherwise. Scot IMO did a good job to improve the secondary talent wise from last year -- looking forward to seeing all three corners on the field finally, though. Probably not the best day to make this point, assuming Brees is about to tear the Redskins secondary apart as he has done to other teams. Exactly. SS was equally bad, maybe a bit worse this year. But Goldson, while average at best, is clearly an an improvememt over Clark, Jarret a clear upgrade over Biggers. Culliver has played enough to have given them more than Amerson and the patchwork of Breeland, Blackman, Culliver, Hall and Jarrett is clearly better than last year's corners of Amerson, Breeland, part time Hall and Biggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Exactly. SS was equally bad, maybe a bit worse this year. But Goldson, while average at best, is clearly an an improvememt over Clark, Jarret a clear upgrade over Biggers. Culliver has played enough to have given them more than Amerson and the patchwork of Breeland, Blackman, Culliver, Hall and Jarrett is clearly better than last year's corners of Amerson, Breeland, part time Hall and Biggers. Yeah as I said yesterday I was a bit worried about making this point going against Brees but the secondary clearly was more than solid. I dare say having Blackmon, Jarrett, Culliver, Hall, Breeland is at least an average caliber secondary. Goldson had the big INT yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 I thought and said before yesterday, it was a big game - potential turning point for the season going north or south. They won. They have arguably won every must win game -- that's new from the past -- and that's great. So I give the coaching staff credit. Now I'd love to see an upset on the road for a change. We seem to give some teams a fight on the road for some of the game and then think well they almost beat a good team on the road so nice try -- then like a week or two later that same team we lost too indeed does get upset by some other team. Lets be that team for a change! Jay's record on the road is abysmal. If that changes, another big step IMO. I'm not sure about must wins, but I think they have won a fair percentage of they games they should be competitive in. That's a decent first step. When facing Miami, Tampa Bay, and St. Louis... these are the teams that should be on their level right now or maybe a touch below them. They fought each and managed 2 wins and a loss. I'd say that Atlanta, NY, and the Saints are probably above them. They got one win out of them and should have beaten Atlanta. New England is beyond them right now and they played like they knew it and were completely intimidated. So, if the first step to becoming a good team is winning the games you should and being competitive in other games, we're close to that mark. We were trounced by NY and New England, but made it a game every other week. On the OP question, I still probably go with my earlier statements. Barry is edging out Haslett Gruden and Kyle are about even (Kyle may have the edge) What we haven't really seen is two good weeks in a row, but strangely, I think I read we're on a four game home winning streak. That's pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Injury Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 "In addition to six sacks, Orakpo leads the team with 20 quarterback pressures and eight tackles for a loss. With the former Redskins Pro Bowler leading the charge, the Titans sacked Cam Newton a season-high five times in last week's defeat to the Panthers." nfl.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If jay wins this week I will bless his now likely return. Not because it would mean a win over an undefeated team but because it would mean two weeks in a row after an embarrassing loss, a signature road win, a tie for first entering new week 12 of the season, etc. All this talk about culture change and increased intensity and focus at practice, I would start to believe. Of course I am a fan, which means 1) Scot and Danny don't really need my blessing, 2) I will be back here saying the same things next week anyway if we are heading into a late November game against the Giants with first place on the line at FedEx where we are 4-1 this season! HTTR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Barry's defense seems to simplify the scheme and gives the players more chances to make individual plays. Certainly more fumbles and lots of "almost sacks" that could have worked if the player executed properly. I think it will continue to improve once we start getting better players and our current ones get more than half a season of familiarity in this system. The simplified scheme also seems to be helping our depth chart players. My biggest pet peeve with Haslett was the huge dropoff between starter and backup. Backup guys would be on the team for 2 or 3 years but when they were called upon to fill in they constantly looked lost, out of position, or like they didn't know the playbook. Compare that with how our second and third stringers have filled in this season. Simply put, Barry puts the players in a position to make plays. Now we just need to find playmakers. It's a more transparent approach that I think works well for where we are as a rebuilding franchise right now. Our GM is focused on bringing in solid football players and Barry's scheme makes it easier to see where we need the most help going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bih Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 How about this defense now? Can't stop panthers to save their life. Run defense is the worst I have ever seen. How is this an improvement over the idiot hasslet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bih Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Game over, second turn over by idiot Jones again, defense is in idle mode. Too bad there is no other games on to watch, this is painful to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaLazarou Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Follow Emmanual Benton@Manny_PPI Before you call Culliver a bad pickup... just remember he's a press corner. Same with Breeland. #Redskins choose not to play press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Been saying it since 2011, keeping losers like Haz or hiring guys like Barry when Wade Phillips is out there, should get a loser head coach fired before he's allowed to scuttle another season. I'd use it as a test then after proving himself an obvious idiot get a real head coach but preferably find this kind of stuff out BEFORE hiring another moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Redskins have improved to being an average or just below average team, but they still suffer from glass jaw syndrome. The screw job in the second quarter totally unhinged them. I don't know who that's on, but it's something that shouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Barry's defense with basically the same personnel as Haz gives up about 1 yard more per carry than last years team and about 25 yards more per game -- and that's with the help of a better ball controlled offense that keeps them off the field more. I didn't like Haz at all. I still need to see the full season to put my verdict in for Barry but for the moment I'll say I see no evidence that he's better than Haz. Granted, its tough to judge with the limited info we have and still a small sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 It wasn't even a question of Haslett being shipped out; it was too bad that it took so long to do so. Barry, the jury's out on him. I'm starting to frown watching his designs and calls; the front 3 are not getting ANY form of penetration, no pressure whatsoever. But one thing is for sure, we simply CANNOT go down the same road with Barry as we did with Haslett; if he cannot get the defense to play at a steady level week after week, then he will be having his own' Joe Barry; time for him to show something' thread. Whoever is calling plays, whether Jay or the OC, needs to take a step back and look at the big picture. The o-line isn't healthy or solid, thus the constant running on 1st downs proves to be ineffective. They're not good enough to dictate a solid running game plan, and opponents know it and adjust. We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Barry's defense with basically the same personnel as Haz gives up about 1 yard more per carry than last years team and about 25 yards more per game -- and that's with the help of a better ball controlled offense that keeps them off the field more. I didn't like Haz at all. I still need to see the full season to put my verdict in for Barry but for the moment I'll say I see no evidence that he's better than Haz. Granted, its tough to judge with the limited info we have and still a small sample. Didn't particularly like Has either, but I admire his propensity to blitz- whether or not the blitzers succeeded. There's nothing more infuriating than watching Barry's defensive play-calls, dependent on four rushers providing ZERO pass rush. The opposing QB? Gashes our formulaic zones with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Didn't particularly like Has either, but I admire his propensity to blitz- whether or not the blitzers succeeded. There's nothing more infuriating than watching Barry's defensive play-calls, dependent on four rushers providing ZERO pass rush. The opposing QB? Gashes our formulaic zones with ease. Cooley who generally is pro-coaching staff has been on Barry albeit without overly harsh language -- today on the broadcast, he was going on about how in his mind the defense's soft zone which allowed Carolina to hold on to the ball and dink and dunk down the field -- provided too much undue respect for Carolina's mediocre receivers. I said this before the game, I hope Barry would be more aggressive against Carolina's ball control driven offense. That didn't seem to be Barry's plan. Granted, Barry knows a heck of a lot more about defense than anyone of us watching from our couches. But so far, I am not impressed -- I'll give it more time, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Defense didn't do enough today for sure, and the offense didn't make things any easier on them. Thought they got some decent pressure on Cam, but not nearly enough. Although I like the idea of press man, I think you run the risk of big qb runs. Tough game to watch. Stinks to once again embarrass ourselves in front of most of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The Culliver INT/TD game changer blown call aside, our defense seems like a hot mess. Watch how teams defend our run game, vs how we defend, and its night and day. Unblocked guys, vs all guys blocked. Over and over, for months on end. We do get occasional pressure from great one on one efforts up front, and decent corner pass coverage, but that's about it. I saw in another game, where a team brought 6, and stunted one up the gut, and had a 2nd guy stunting right behind him. Sack. Radical for us is bringing a 5th guy. Our defense looks dumbed down, basic and vanilla, which is possibly a step in the right direction after seeing Haslett confuse his own guys weekly. But there is no ingenuity at all, and we are getting crushed by the run. Only when teams are dumb enough to pass on us (read their backs get tired, and OCs get anxious to follow their game plan), do we have a chance. At least Haslett in all his futility, provided basic run D, which is a needed foundation for any good defense. On paper our run D should not be this bad. We have a decent front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 On paper our run D should not be this bad. We have a decent front 7. That to me is the key, The D front is basically the same as last year. Cofield didn't really play last year. Outside of the mediocre Jenkins this is the same lineup when its Golston, Baker, Hatcher playing up front (Pot-roast trading off playing time with Golston, and Pae and Francois for depth) and Keenan, Riley and Compton at MLB. And that same group all of a sudden is now the worst Redskins D front of all time-run defense? Kerrigan and Murphy used to be good at containing the edges and stopping the run. Now they stink at it? Might scheme be in play? And again that's with a ball control offense that was top 10 on that front leading into this game that keeps the defense off the field more so than 2014. I am all for hey using the its talent as a sweeping argument in defense for whomever when it applies -- but it doesn't IMO here with Barry. It's not that poor Barry doesn't have the talent that Haz did -- arguably he has more talent than Haz, heck some NFL pundits actually predicted the defense would be vastly improved after this off season. I think the pass defense is slightly improved after the talent upgrades but the rest of the defense IMO is worse. If you are going to be imaginative with exotic blitzes, etc than you got to be fundamentally sound. And this defense is nether. Cooley actually explains it well. Barry's defense basically is very dependent on players to play with sound technique and in particular to be good tacklers because the plays happen in front of them -- but it doesn't match this personnel well because these guys aren't good at playing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Cooley actually explains it well. Barry's defense basically is very dependent on players to play with sound technique and in particular to be good tacklers because the plays happen in front of them -- but it doesn't match this personnel well because these guys aren't good at playing that way. If you got guys that aren't good tacklers, then they aren't good in any scheme. Barry's defense yesterday was rush 4 (which wasn't working) and defend the pass (which wasn't working). They couldn't tackle what was in front of them, the player behind that player couldn't get the second tackle, then the 3rd player couldn't get the tackle. Players weren't even running to the ball yesterday. At some point the players have to have some pride in playing, that was garbage yesterday. On coaching, at some point when rushing 4 doesn't work, and you are getting beat in the air anyways....I dunno???? You blitz? You rush more than 4? The lack of adjustments is all on coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If you got guys that aren't good tacklers, then they aren't good in any scheme. Good point -- its the 101 aspect of playing fundamentally sound. Is there a coaching aspect of tackling? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/30/pete-carroll-urges-rugby-style-tackling-in-instructional-video/ The NFL’s emphasis on tackling with the shoulders, instead of the head, isn’t just about player safety. According to the coach of the best defense in football, it’s also the most effective way to bring a ball carrier down. Seahawks coach Pete Carroll has released an instructional video showing the way his coaching staff teaches tackling. “Our tackling system features shoulder tackling and a renewed emphasis on taking the head out of tackling. We’ve found our style to be successful in the NFL and in college, and we believe it can be employed at all levels,” Carroll said. Carroll pointed to rugby — in which players don’t wear helmets — as the sport with the best tackling techniques. “We have found that we can practice and drill our tackling without pads or a helmet,” Carroll said. “This system of tackling was recently inspired by those who play rugby around the world. Rugby players have truly taken the head out of the game and truly exemplify shoulder tackling.” If the techniques used in rugby are safer than the techniques in football, that raises a question: Did all of the additional equipment given to football players through the years, supposedly for player safety, actually make the American style of football less safe than it would be if, like rugby, it had eschewed protective equipment through the years? http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/01/former_new_orleans_saints_defe_9.html Gregg Williams interview (On how he can improve the Rams' tackling, particularly in the secondary) "Well the biggest thing is bringing it up, and then trying to structure as many game-related drills as you can. The rules, A-B-C, 1-2-3 fundamental kinds of tackles that you try to stress early in the year, you then have to as you get into the season, make drills in practice be game-related. And everything that we'll do in practice will be production-related, game-related drills. And we have some ways to improve that. One of the things that we'll monitor very strictly here is what we call, 'yards after contact.' A lot of people say 'YAC' or 'yards after catch' but we take 'YAC' meaning yards after contact and there is your defined ability to measure how good of a tackling team you are. If a guy is able to make yards before you ever get a chance to hit him, that doesn't have anything to do with tackling. We'll monitor that and we'll make it a very big point of emphasis from Day 1, when we get a chance to play defense. Defenses are monitored by two to three big things: one is their ability to tackle, two is the points they give up, three are the takeaways that they are able to give extra opportunities to their own offense and there's scoring on defense too - those things that we'll make a real big issue with. And you guys will see us, too, is we'll have a tackling circuit that we'll start every defensive practice with. We'll have a takeaway circuit that we'll start every defensive practice with. Usually, what coaches emphasize, players improve with. And if you have the right kind of character players, there's no doubt they'll improve it, if you emphasize it." (On what he means by circuit drill) "When I say circuit, it's a rotated drill. There will be six stations of drills, where each coach on the staff - there will be more than that depending on how many Jeff (Fisher) give me - but each coach will be teaching a particular skill and drill in tackling, a particular skill and a drill in taking the ball away. "What we'll do defensively here is I'll adapt to them; they won't adapt to me. What you'll see is that everywhere I've gone, I've been able to get a top five defense during the time I'm there, anywhere from one to four, one to five, in all of the stops I've made. When we do that, it's because I will adapt to the strengths of the people there. I think coaches make mistakes when they try to pigeonhole players into what they're comfortable with. I'm very comfortable in my own skin. I feel like my job is, my charge is, to find the strength of every single person I get a chance to coach and/or coach with on the coaching staff and utilize their strengths and try to hide their weaknesses. We all have warts, we all have weaknesses, but we all have strengths, too. So let's find out, let's spend a lot of time and energies on finding out the strengths and weaknesses of everybody and highlight the strengths and hide the weakness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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