The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Dan T.]

 

[China]

Parkland survivor David Hogg thrown out of House gun control meeting for impassioned interruption

 

Parkland shooting survivor David Hogg was thrown out of a House Judiciary Committee meeting about gun control on Wednesday after he confronted a GOP lawmaker about “reiterating the points of mass shooters”.

 

Mr Hogg, a prominent gun safety advocate, was in the gallery of the meeting as Republican Rep Andy Biggs claimed that residents in his state of Arizona need assault weapons to defend themselves against the “invasion” of immigrants.

 

“The reality is it is an invasion of our southern border,” he said.

 

The lawmaker argued that – if a ban of assault weapons comes into force – people who live within 10 miles of the US’s southern border with Mexico must be exempt because they need “to protect themselves” from people who he claims “pose a danger or threat”.

 

As he made his comments, Mr Hogg rose to his feet and passionately interrupted proceedings telling him that his claims echoed comments made by several mass killers.

 

“You’re reiterating the points of mass shooters in your manifesto!” he shouted.

 

“The shooter in my high school: antiSemitic, anti-Black and racist. The shooter in El Paso described it as an invasion.”

 

Mr Hogg continued by telling Rep Biggs that the guns used in those attacks didn’t come from Mexico – but from within the US’s own borders.

 

“Guess what? Those guns are coming from the United States of America. They aren’t coming from Mexico. They are not coming from Mexico,” he shouted.

 

“You are reiterating the points of a mass shooter, sir, sir, you are perpetuating violence… Stop these things now!”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[ixcuincle]

 

[China]

Yes, the gun control everyone is clamoring for...

 

 

[ixcuincle]

Disregard

Edited July 23, 2022 by ixcuincle
video had profanity

[China]

‘Justified: City Primeval’ Production Halted After Outsiders Engaged In Gun Battle Drive Through Barricades In Chicago; PD Releases Statement

 

UPDATED: The Chicago Police Department has release a statement in response to the shooting that temporarily shut down the set of FX’s Justified: City Primeval.

 

“The Chicago Police Department is committed to ensuring members of the city’s vibrant film and television community are able to do their jobs safely. We work in close coordination with the Chicago Film Office, the Department of Cultural Affairs and Special Events, and the Office of Emergency Management and Communications to ensure production crews have the resources necessary to feel safe and secure while filming in the city’s neighborhoods.”

 

PREVIOUS: Production on FX’s Justified: City Primeval has been halted in Chicago after two cars whose occupants were engaged in a gunfight smashed through the show’s barricades.

 

No one was injured during the Wednesday night intrusion, though shell casings were found on the set later. The cast and crew hit the ground and took cover when the incident occurred near the city’s Douglass Park. Star Timothy Olyphant, who is reprising his role as U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens, was present. A tipster told Deadline that Olyphant shielded a production assistant from the gunfire but this could not be verified.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

3 hours ago, China said:

PREVIOUS: Production on FX’s Justified: City Primeval has been halted in Chicago after two cars whose occupants were engaged in a gunfight smashed through the show’s barricades.

1). But did they get it on film?  
 

2). I wonder if they considered announcing that they need the participants to sign releases. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Sorry for derailing the other thread. 

 

2 hours ago, purbeast said:

Not true at all. 

 

Stronger background checks and a older age limit of allowing you to purchase an AR-15 could have easily prevented this lunatic from ever having one in his posession.

 

I'm not going not hold my breath waiting for these minor, wholly-inadequate to have any real effect.

 

2 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Weird flex considering countries all over the world with reasonable gun control have nearly no gun violence compared to the states and meanwhile this latest good guy bull**** you keep hyping ended up with 4 corpses.

 

 

 

It's not meant as a flex.  It's an opinion.  Show me a country that has anywhere near the amount of guns in circulation we have and that....wait, there is no comparison to us.  You keep yelling at the clouds that we need real gun control and waiting for it to happen.  I'll accept the reality of the situation and look at ways possibly temper the bloodshed we see happening.

 

And again, I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that a good guy with a gun is the only solution,  etc.

 

2 hours ago, purbeast said:

I mean I get what he's saying if he was thinking I was talking about banning/removing all guns, which I didn't say, but is what people love to assume is the only solution and don't think it will work so they don't want to take any measures.

 

Logistically that would be tough to do and our country is full of selfish assholes that don't care about the greater good so they'd never give their guns up.  Oh, and you also have one of the 2 parties glorifying guns on a daily basis who have the NRA in their pocket, meaning that they don't want to get rid of all guns.

 

Yup.  And that is why this stuff will keep happening.  At least this guy helped keep the numbers down.

[purbeast]

10 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

I'm not going not hold my breath waiting for these minor, wholly-inadequate to have any real effect.

I mean, if the age was 25 years old to purchase an AR-15, this kid wouldn't have been able to purchase one and this shooting wouldn't have happened.

[Larry]

Just now, purbeast said:

I mean, if the age was 25 years old to purchase an AR-15, this kid wouldn't have been able to purchase one and this shooting wouldn't have happened.

Not arguing that it's not a good idea. But I'll observe that the part I bolded is an untested assumption. 
 

In the world you're inventing, does 

 

1). The shooting doesn't happen

2). He gets the gun, anyway. 
3). He just uses a different gun. (And maybe the shooting works out in a slightly different way, better or worse). 
4). The gun industry comes out with a gun that's virtually identical, with just enough subtle differences to get around the law. 

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

Not arguing that it's not a good idea. But I'll observe that the part I bolded is an untested assumption. 
 

In the world you're inventing, does 

 

1). The shooting doesn't happen

2). He gets the gun, anyway. 
3). He just uses a different gun. (And maybe the shooting works out in a slightly different way, better or worse). 
4). The gun industry comes out with a gun that's virtually identical, with just enough subtle differences to get around the law. 

Of course it's an assumption, I'm not a psychic or in an alternate dimension where it played out differently.

 

But we have rules in society and typically rules work and most people follow them.  Sure there are outliers, but we have them for a reason and they usually work.  But yeah, let's not do anything since nothing will stop these shootings 100% immediately.

 

Not sure how #3 or #4 would be the case if the age to purchase a gun is 25.

 

And in #2, how many of these mass shootings have happened from a gun that was not purchased by legal means?

 

I honestly don't have a clue but I do know that pretty much every one of the "mainstream" ones have all talked about the shooters guns being purchased by legal means.  Most of these guys are around the same age and introvert with no prior criminal backgrounds.  I find it much harder to believe these introvert shooters would go find illegal guns from some criminal organization than not just do these shootings if they don't have easy means to the weapons.

 

And we have proof from literally every other country, where guns aren't easily accessible, that mass shootings don't happen.  The same countries that have access to the same movies, music, cultures, etc, that we have in the USA, where they also have criminal organizations and illegal guns.  These shootings do not happen there and when they do it's super rare.  

[Larry]

8 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Not sure how #3 or #4 would be the case if the age to purchase a gun is 25.

Observing that you are now moving from "age 25 to purchase an AR-15", to "age 25 to purchase any gun at all". 
 

Unless I'm misreading you. 
 

----

 

Which is why my opinion is that any proposal that applies just to AR-15s is a complete waste of breath. You're just inviting people to switch from Ford to Chevy. 
 

That's why me, I talk about making laws that apply to "semi auto weapons with interchangeable magazines". Something which, IMO:

 

1). Targets a functional characteristic, rather than a model number. 
2). Targets a characteristic which makes the weapon much more functional for a mass shooter. 
3). And which I believe, would have as little impact as possible on a lot of recreational users whose rights I want to infringe on as little as possible. 
 

8 minutes ago, purbeast said:

And in #2, how many of these mass shootings have happened from a gun that was not purchased by legal means?

I've seen the guns come from lots of different paths. Including being bought by parents, and being obtained from "responsible gun owners" who leave multiple guns laying around unsecured. 
 

Both of the above were purchased legally. Just not by the mass shooter. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Larry

[TheGreatBuzz]

27 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I mean, if the age was 25 years old to purchase an AR-15, this kid wouldn't have been able to purchase one and this shooting wouldn't have happened.

 

And if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 hours ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

And if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

Instead we just have a bunch of dead kids…

[TheGreatBuzz]

10 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Instead we just have a bunch of dead kids…

 

'Merica!

[CousinsCowgirl84]

21 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

'Merica!

It only happens in American but you’ve determined it’s an acceptable cost for “freedom”.

[Larry]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

It only happens in American but you’ve determined it’s an acceptable cost for “freedom”.

 

Actually, I don't think Buzz, himself, has said that.  

 

Now, I think what he is saying is along the lines of "This thread would be a lot simpler if nobody was allowed to mention any proposals that the NRA hasn't approved of."  But that's another matter.  

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Actually, I don't think Buzz, himself, has said that.  

  

 But, actually, he has said that himself…

 

On 7/20/2022 at 2:40 PM, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

I've come to accept that mass shootings are here to stay.  Best we can do now is limit the body count. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

It only happens in American but you’ve determined it’s an acceptable cost for “freedom”.

 

I'm not saying it SHOULD be acceptable but considering the lack of MEANINGFUL reform, it is the world we live in and I don't see it changing.  I will continue to support meaningful gun reform but I'm also realistic as to the world we live in.  Twice we have had someone walk into an elementary school and lay waste to a classroom of children and nothing happens.  If you want to keep advocating for reforms that have zero chance of happening,  you do you.

 

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

Actually, I don't think Buzz, himself, has said that.  

 

Now, I think what he is saying is along the lines of "This thread would be a lot simpler if nobody was allowed to mention any proposals that the NRA hasn't approved of."  But that's another matter.  

 

 

 

I'm not saying no one can mention other ideas.  Just be realistic about what can change in today's world. 

 

58 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 But, actually, he has said that himself…

 

 

 

Show me where I'm wrong.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

8 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

I'm not saying it SHOULD be acceptable but considering the lack of MEANINGFUL reform, it is the world we live in and I don't see it changing.  I will continue to support meaningful gun reform but I'm also realistic as to the world we live in.  Twice we have had someone walk into an elementary school and lay waste to a classroom of children and nothing happens.  If you want to keep advocating for reforms that have zero chance of happening,  you do you.

 

 

They only have zero chance of happening because gun advocates think like you do. That we just have to accept gun violence.

 

And gun rights advocates all are willing to accept gun violence. They obviously think that the dead kids are a worth while price to pay to protect your second amendment rights. The alternative is that it isn’t acceptable and you are willing to give up your rights in order to solve the problem. I have not heard you say you are willing to give up your guns. Gun violence is a solvable problem but you don’t think giving up your guns is worth it. 

The solution is right there, but people who love guns find gun deaths acceptable. There isn’t an alternative way to look at it.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The alternative is that it isn’t acceptable and you are willing to give up your rights in order to solve the problem. I have heard you say you are willing to give up your guns. Gun a solvable problem but you don’t think giving up your guns is worth it. 

 

What, you have or have not heard me say ill give up my guns?

Edited July 25, 2022 by The Almighty Buzz

[China]

 

Shots fired at Love Field, forcing airport evacuations and re-screenings: Everything we know

 

A 37-year-old woman fired off several rounds with a handgun near a ticket counter in Dallas Love Field airport at 10:59 a.m. on Monday before being shot by a Dallas Police officer and taken to Parkland Hospital to have her injuries treated, police said. 

 

In a press conference shortly after noon on Monday, Dallas Police Chief Eddie Garcia said the woman was dropped off at the airport and changed clothes in a restroom before approaching a ticket counter and firing a handgun. 

 

It's not clear where the woman was aiming with her shots, or what her motive might have been, Garcia said, noting that the woman's shots did not strike anyone else in the airport.

Shortly after firing her weapon, Garcia said a Dallas Police officer shot at the woman and struck her in her lower body. 

 

Garcia reported no other injuries from the shooting at the time of his press conference.

Edited July 25, 2022 by China

[China]

Not sure whether this should be in the gun control, or more cops that need to be fired thread:

 

Denver cop's guns found during son's shooting arrest

 

The son of a Denver Police officer has been charged with 14 crimes, including nine counts of attempted murder.

 

Samuel Rose, 17, has been charged as an adult for a pair of house shootings. He confessed to them to a friend over the social media app Snapchat.

 

Snapchat photo of Samuel Rose pointing two Rifles on June 7, 2022. (Credit: Jefferson County District Attorney’s Office)
 

His father, Denver Police Detective Asher Rose, faces an internal affairs investigation for possibly violating department rules on the improper storage of department-authorized firearms.

 

Jefferson County Sheriff’s deputies found two handguns in the possession of Samuel Rose when they arrested him June on 16 - guns his father said belonged to him.

 

According to court documents obtained by the Problem Solvers, Asher told deputies the guns “had been taken without permission from his gun safe at home.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[tshile]

On 7/24/2022 at 5:39 PM, Larry said:

Not arguing that it's not a good idea. But I'll observe that the part I bolded is an untested assumption. 
 

In the world you're inventing, does 

 

1). The shooting doesn't happen

2). He gets the gun, anyway. 
3). He just uses a different gun. (And maybe the shooting works out in a slightly different way, better or worse). 
4). The gun industry comes out with a gun that's virtually identical, with just enough subtle differences to get around the law. 

5). He waits till he’s 25. 

[tshile]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:56 AM, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

What, you have or have not heard me say ill give up my guns?

She’s just doing that thing where she makes up your opinion for you, then ridicules you for the opinion she’s made up for you. 
 

you’ll notice several people in this thread, and in general lots of people, have an incredibly difficult time understanding the difference between:

I do not think anything should happen

 

i do not think these specific ideas will have the effect you think it will

 

i do not think these specific ideas can pass and become law

 

 

 

they treat treat them all as the same statement despite being very different. Discourse in this country is complete garbage mostly because people who are capable of being better, choose not to.