Fresh8686 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, tshile said: remember when obama said the people in PA cling to their guns and religion? i mean most of us knew he was right at the time... (and PA isn't the only place) I mean yea, but damn this is some next level **** isn't it? Do y'all normally come into contact with folks like this in gun country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: I aint think he meant it like that though lol or did he? No i didn't think he meant it like that either, but i'm also not surprised. we are our own little echo chamber where (most of us at least) we're capable of discussing this stuff (most of the time) in an adult manner. the rest of the country.... hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The vision that Tsile and PeterMP have expressed is not the one being pushed by the White House. The White House very much imagines turning teachers into a Minute Man style militia.... Maybe not even that. They probably view the idea of arming teachers through a John Wayne/Clint Eastwood lens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Trump went on a rant about guns (still ongoing?). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said: Do y'all normally come into contact with folks like this in gun country? that dress up in white robes, wear bullet rings around their head, carry their rifles and sing hyms together? nah... i'm not really around those types of people... though... they probably aren't far off... and i wouldn't be surprised if there's some out here to do it in the cover of darkness in a field with a cross on fire or some ****... we are one of the counties in NOVA in the news recently for having leaflets distributed to peoples driveways for the KKK... but... people are definitely hard core 2nd amendment supporters. they are otherwise normal people, but they feel strongly about their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. very, very strongly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, tshile said: or did he? No i didn't think he meant it like that either, but i'm also not surprised. we are our own little echo chamber where (most of us at least) we're capable of discussing this stuff (most of the time) in an adult manner. the rest of the country.... hah. Being honest im not saying you are wrong in that we as a country are far off from actually making any legislative change re gun control. Thats why I agree that if arming teachers is the only thing we can do in the interim, then we should. But I do not think it is. We have belabored the point though. And I really wanna have hope for these kids. Really really. But I see where this is going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: Being honest im not saying you are wrong in that we as a country are far off from actually making any legislative change re gun control. Thats why I agree that if arming teachers is the only thing we can do in the interim, then we should. But I do not think it is. We have belabored the point though. And I really wanna have hope for these kids. Really really. But I see where this is going. the business ties severing gave me a brief moment of hope. then i saw the threat to delta and remembered what we're up against. i would thoroughly enjoy being wrong. i've got a 2 1/2 year old in day care. he'll be in school soon enough, but honestly being in day care isn't any different. i got 1 on the way. the whole thing scares the **** out of me. i've thought about moving to another country, home schooling, arming teachers, how realistic it is we can ban and confiscate all guns, pretty much everything. i'm not really against any of it. at this point, moving out of the country seems the best bet, and the most likely. which is why i took such offense to another poster suggesting i was thinking of the kids as just stats. this sucks. the whole ****ing thing sucks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Llevron said: Jesus didnt have a gun to protect himself and look what happened. ok ill stop This is a joke right now, but I am 100% sure we are not that far off from this being part of the official GOP platform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 7 hours ago, PeterMP said: Anybody that has actually engaged in the conversation has essentially ended up admitting it isn't an unreasonable view point. I believe I have engaged in the conversation - you are of course free to disagree. I still believe it’s a monumentally bad idea - not just philosophically but practically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Alaska's only House Rep, Don Young, was caught on tape claiming that the Nazi's were able to commit genocide against the Jews, because the Jews didn't have guns and maybe less of them would have died if they were armed. https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/politics/alaska-guns-holocaust-trnd/index.html We are literally weeks away from one of these bozos saying "if Jesus had a gun". My money is on Mike Huckabee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 4 hours ago, MartinC said: The one thing leads to another was my point. I was not referencing teachers. But on that topic. After WWII a study was conducted of the US (and I think British military). Of the trained and experienced combat troops in those armies only about 20% actually fired their weapons in combat. Most focused on staying alive. What do you think the percentages would be for trained and experienced teachers? And I agree with your point, but right now in the US we have the one thing (lots of guns) and no clear path forward to practically change it, then it makes sense to keep the other (cops with guns (though I am one that would argue that we could use less of them)). I WANT the teachers to focus on staying alive, and if they are in a situation when firing their weapon (an active shooter is invading their classroom) is their best way to stay alive, I want them to do so. As has been stated multiple time in this thread, nobody (here) is asking or wants to behave like SWAT or soldiers in WWII (or even normal cops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 44 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said: I mean yea, but damn this is some next level **** isn't it? Do y'all normally come into contact with folks like this in gun country? No, I live in Central Kentucky, I have in-laws in Eastern Kentucky (where all the jokes come from) and I’ve never seen anything like that. Half of me thinks it was staged to goof the media. 27 minutes ago, visionary said: Now there’s a fella with his finger on the pulse of American politics! Dear gawd what did you people do to us!? This is worse than Jesse Ventura! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 44 minutes ago, visionary said: Trump gone rogue! Democrats and the media will fawn in hopes of a deal...meanwhile Republicans will yank their unruly dog back on his chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Llevron said: Im being petty at this point but I just wanted to illiterate how full of **** your above post and a few others have been. I mean even your retort is bull****. I dont care that you liked it because you agreed with anything he said. Thats not the point (and you know that). The point is you saw the post saying exactly what you say today no one said. And when you come to me saying im making you incredibly sick with how disingenuous I am, when you liked two posts that are directly contrary to one other; and THEN you tell me that im being disingenuous for making an, now proven, observation on how hypocritical these two statements are. 1. Conversations evolve over 6 days. 2. Teachers carrying guns in schools is HAPPENING. It is legal in 18 states, actively happening and bragged about in TX, and looks like it is going to become legal in FL. By telling people to not talk about arming teachers, he's not only completely shutting down an idea because he doesn't like it, he's shutting down talking to an idea that is happening NOW and could happen more in the near future. If you go back and read the thread, that post you quoted was actually agreeing with you. You said: "I mean whats the point of any of this discussion if the measure of it is if its implemented or not?" I was point out, that was the nature of the conversation we were having then 6 days ago. (And realistically, it is still what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what can be done. Kilmer talks about things that can't be done and criticizes people that are focusing on what can be done because he doesn't like the topic or doesn't think it is "enough" as if saving any lives should be ignored.) Edited February 28, 2018 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) Oh hey, where did our “arm the teachers” evangelists go? edit: gotta give PeterMP credit for having the balls to stick to his guns after an armed teacher has a standoff in their classrom. Edited February 28, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Stuff and things. Lets not. I got it out of my system already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 There are a lot of people who would be okay with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Oh hey, where did our “arm the teachers” evangelists go? edit: gotta give PeterMP credit for having the balls to stick to his guns after an armed teacher has a standoff in their classrom. It actually completely validates what I've already said. There is nothing preventing a deranged/not qualified teacher from bringing a gun into a class room now. Putting in screening and training for teachers that are thinking about, might, or tempted to bring a gun into the classroom actually decreases the risk of this sort of thing happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Teachers carrying guns in schools is HAPPENING. It is legal in 18 states, actively happening and bragged about in TX, and looks like it is going to become legal in FL. is it that many? but yes, the people who refuse to discuss it for whatever reason... that's fine, the rest of the country is moving on without you apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 39 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Alaska's only House Rep, Don Young, was caught on tape claiming that the Nazi's were able to commit genocide against the Jews, because the Jews didn't have guns and maybe less of them would have died if they were armed. And then he followed it up with “but fortunately...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, PeterMP said: blah blah blah....words words words...perfect scenario that only exists in my head...words words words...blah blah blah...slam dunk case! Pretty much exactly what I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, tshile said: is it that many? Not exactly. Those are the states where it’s legal to bring a gun to school if ______ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Not exactly. Those are the states where it’s legal to bring a gun to school if ______ If what? What we were discussing would be bring to school if ____ too. Where If was about background check, some sort of training, and some sort of procedures/policies implemented for identifying teacher vs attacker vs police, securing the weapon, etc etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Not exactly. Those are the states where it’s legal to bring a gun to school if ______ Is some cases if is just a concealed permit, which isn't that much (which I think is a really bad idea). Then there are set of others where it is up to local control We had a Principal in this thread say he knew there were schools where there was a gun kept in the school. He didn't say what state he was in, whose the gun actually was, or who gave the approval for the gun to be there. But I wonder in how many of those states have local board of eds or superintendents approved some gun(s) being in the school. Realistically, given the attitude, we'll never know. 6 minutes ago, tshile said: If what? What we were discussing would be bring to school if ____ too. Where If was about background check, some sort of training, and some sort of procedures/policies implemented for identifying teacher vs attacker vs police, securing the weapon, etc etc. Most cases local approval, school board, superintendent, principal, etc. Depends on the state. They don't set requirements, but you need some sort of approval in most states. When I talked to Kilmer that's why I emphasized minimum requirements at the state level. It leaves room for locals to add on. Edited February 28, 2018 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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