NoCalMike Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Our organization seems to be the exception to every rule of how to rebuild and be successful, because it seems like it has done things the wrong way for a long time, and when it doesn't work they take another wrong approach. Scot as the GM is probably the biggest sign of hope in a long time that this team will eventually become good, consistently good again one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Our organization seems to be the exception to every rule of how to rebuild and be successful, because it seems like it has done things the wrong way for a long time, and when it doesn't work they take another wrong approach. Scot as the GM is probably the biggest sign of hope in a long time that this team will eventually become good, consistently good again one day. Not really, man... Snyder has simply never done it the right way at an organizational level. I know I sound like a broken record on this, but it's the simple truth. We've never had a proper GM, Scouting Department and HC operating within their roles and allowed to fulfill them without unwarranted interference for an acceptable period of time. The closest we came to this was with Vinny/Spurrier as well as with Vinny/Zorn. But, even then, Snyder was heavily involved as admitted by both Vinny and now Spurrier. Never mind just how terrible Vinny was and for how long, so even if it was sustained it would've probably continued to be the failure it always was. But even those periods of time were mixed in with Head Coaches who had final say in personnel. And Snyder was still too involved in one way or another. Right now, in my mind, we got actual experts fulfilling the roles their titles imply for the first time during Synder's tenure. Bruce Allen has shown he can handle the executive responsibilities of being Team President in the past with the Raiders and Bucs. Scot has shown he can evaluate and assess talent with the best of them, which is the main responsibility his GM title entails. Just have to hope he keeps his personal demons away, or at least keeps them personal. Gruden was a normal hire for HC, a successful coordinator who is/was young and "up and coming". So it's there right now, at least structurally. The questions are, will Snyder go overboard with involvement, again? Will the titles continue to be representative of roles/responsibilities and never undermined? Will they maintain the structure even if Scot or Gruden need to be replaced? Do they have a solid hiring process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Patience ?? Redskin fans ? lololololol. Yea, that's asking for the Powerball numbers the day before. But, building a system is one thing; you have to ask, what kind or form of system is being built. Then you have to figure if its good enough to overcome/beat the other systems in our division. IMO, and its only MY observation, that first, why stick to the 3-4 defense? Its being run by the majority of teams in the league. Being different can give you an edge; if opponents aren't used to or familiar with a certain style of defense, they tend to struggle. Teams who play against similar defenses, it then becomes who has the better players. That's why I've always deep down wanted to see a 4-6, maybe even tweaked a little. Offense is a little different; big WRs and TEs, tall QBs, tend to do better. Yes, before you go quoting me how this is not true, yes there are cases that prove different, and that's where it gets more into a 'system'. Drew Brees, when he passes, always is looking up through his mask; looks funny in slo-mo, but who was he throwing to? A huge TE who could run. The system hopefully will evolve into a better product, but an instant boost would be a big fast TE or WR, a.k.a. Bryant or Jimmy Graham. Pieces seem to fall into place with guys like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Most teams still want to be specific to a system on offense and defense because they feel it's helpful to consistency. Belichick looks for players that are smart, fundamentally sound, versatile, and can do many different things. This allows the Patriots to run whatever system, week to week, that will be most effective against their opponents weaknesses. Yeah, admittedly, having Brady helps, but even when Tom was out, the Patriots could win because they were capable of changing their system to affect their opponents. Take away their strengths and attack their weaknesses. Most importantly, leave no tendencies on film. Force teams to learn on the fly. I wish our team would at least consider some of these virtues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Most teams still want to be specific to a system on offense and defense because they feel it's helpful to consistency. Belichick looks for players that are smart, fundamentally sound, versatile, and can do many different things. This allows the Patriots to run whatever system, week to week, that will be most effective against their opponents weaknesses. Yeah, admittedly, having Brady helps, but even when Tom was out, the Patriots could win because they were capable of changing their system to affect their opponents. Take away their strengths and attack their weaknesses. Most importantly, leave no tendencies on film. Force teams to learn on the fly. I wish our team would at least consider some of these virtues. I don't know, in a way we kinda did. I mean we came out with the 3 TE power set vs. the Rams, but then came out throwing last week vs. a Giants team that has an awful pass D. Unfortunately the QB didn't execute. Of course, nobody is Bellicheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't know, in a way we kinda did. I mean we came out with the 3 TE power set vs. the Rams, but then came out throwing last week vs. a Giants team that has an awful pass D. Unfortunately the QB didn't execute. Of course, nobody is Bellicheck. Excellent point. Yet we didn't go all the way. For example, everyone knows you hit Eli, you rattle him, yet our defense didn't change. Meanwhile, Cooley has been breaking down the offense and he's seeing patterns. We're becoming predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We've been developing a system for 15 or more years. My patience has long run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 On offense, I think the little tweaks - 3 TEs, interchanging Morris/Jones/Thompson, a bit of spread and uptempo - are helpful. Team needs to play smarter and more disciplined though. On defense, you see a desire to limit the run and limit the blitzing. Barry's in a tough spot though. We're not getting home with 4 very often (injuries to Galette and issues on the back end hamper this), but he seems loathe to expose the secondary (understandable given injuries). I think as this unit plays more (particularly the young guys - Smith, Breeland, Murphy, Jarret and now Dunbar) and gets more comfortable, Barry will be better able to disguise coverages and perhaps trust his units more. In the meantime, they should have ups and downs relative to their opponent. We've been developing a system for 15 or more years. My patience has long run out. Can't really blame you, but we've been developing multiple systems for years... not just one. Now that we have a GM that can actually get players needed for the two systems (O and D), maybe it'll be a different story going forward (oline has been the best example thus far). The fact that SM's focus seemed to be fixing the middle of the field - NT, G, DE, and FS this offseason is a testament (IMO) to where he's different from previous regimes. As of now, though... we're still playing (mostly) like the same old Redskins... so skepticism/pessimism is certainly warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Andy Dalton has been in similar offensive systems since he's been drafted. He's now playing out of his mind. I doubt he continues to do so, but even a fall back towards earth could leave him with pro-bowl type numbers. Is it possible he's now made a "leap" of sorts, given that he's been playing and developing without real controversy for 4 full seasons? Let's say he has improved. There are a lot of QB's in this league who, thanks to continuity and experience, have made a small leap in skill from being in the same system. Matt Hasselbeck went from a below average QB to an average one. Same with Jake Plummer. Eli Manning is now an above average QB, when for awhile, he wasn't good. I don't think we can bail on one system or culture so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Love how the staff is noticeably ducking the injury issue. They're not making any excuses and that's admirable. But the injuries are really piling up and that has to be considered by the fan base. DJax (Offense) Only receiver who commands a double team - Running game would benefit with him on the field too. Niles Paul (Offense/Teams) Logan Paulson (Offense/Teams) - Carrier is no better than Reed at blocking. Lauvao (Offense) He has been a totally new player this year so this hurts. Galette - (Defense) Kudos to Scot and the coaches for realizing they needed a prime pass rusher. The team is hurting for that other edge guy now. Ihenacho (Defense - Teams) He was balling out and would have made a big difference. D Hall (Defense) After he left the game ODB went off. Heyward (Teams Captain) Not counting Heyward that's seven players that really would make a huge difference. And yet the team is playing a lot of young guys and are still in the game. I know people are upset about the Giants game but my God did anyone watch the Bears offense?!?!?! That punting palooza was embarrassing for an NFL team! If this team remains competitive, still secures a top 10 draft pick, and the young pups get a lot of experience then next year could be set up very nicely if we can just stay the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 7 billion people in the world and the most impatient one of them all happened to buy our football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Love how the staff is noticeably ducking the injury issue. They're not making any excuses and that's admirable. But the injuries are really piling up and that has to be considered by the fan base. DJax (Offense) Only receiver who commands a double team - Running game would benefit with him on the field too. Niles Paul (Offense/Teams) Logan Paulson (Offense/Teams) - Carrier is no better than Reed at blocking. Lauvao (Offense) He has been a totally new player this year so this hurts. Galette - (Defense) Kudos to Scot and the coaches for realizing they needed a prime pass rusher. The team is hurting for that other edge guy now. Ihenacho (Defense - Teams) He was balling out and would have made a big difference. D Hall (Defense) After he left the game ODB went off. Heyward (Teams Captain) Not counting Heyward that's seven players that really would make a huge difference. And yet the team is playing a lot of young guys and are still in the game. I know people are upset about the Giants game but my God did anyone watch the Bears offense?!?!?! That punting palooza was embarrassing for an NFL team! If this team remains competitive, still secures a top 10 draft pick, and the young pups get a lot of experience then next year could be set up very nicely if we can just stay the course. Riley missing his second game is going to hurt and I think the impact of this injury is flying under most people's radar. He was a tackling machine against the Rams. Blew up a couple third downs in the backfield which got the defense off the field. We didn't have that last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Riley missing his second game is going to hurt and I think the impact of this injury is flying under most people's radar. He was a tackling machine against the Rams. Blew up a couple third downs in the backfield which got the defense off the field. We didn't have that last week. Oh yeah, I forgot about Riley. He's always been a solid run defender. Missed him for certain in the gnats game. Compton isn't as big and with Spaight on IR there isn't much depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Rogers too. Solid STer and, according to Cooley, probably our best slot corner. Of course if you were the one that posted about Rogers in the "Secondary" thread, I can understand why you didn't include him, lol. Oh yeah, I forgot about Riley. He's always been a solid run defender. Missed him for certain in the gnats game. Compton isn't as big and with Spaight on IR there isn't much depth. Barry was doing a great job using Riley. The other issue with the injuries is that it forces guys into the ST lineup who haven't been here long (well, that's my presumption anyway). That, plus the aforementioned ST "aces" on IR... no surprise we've allowed points on teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Asking loyal fans of a team that has sucked for 20 years to be patient is quite funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 You can't throw high draft picks in the trash and expect to be competitive. We took a shot at a franchise QB, it was a miss, we will pay for it for a few years. The cap penalty also crippled our talent acquisitions. If you don't have high draft picks, playing skill positions, you have to sign FAs. Not having the money to do that, means you will not be competitive. Having continuity matters a lot in the coaching ranks and FO. Having a vision matters. Having talent to pull it off, matters more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Asking loyal fans of a team that has sucked for 20 years to be patient is quite funny. Yeah, we should fire the current staff because they refuse to listen to the fans; who know better how to run this team than they do. Let's just keep trying out new coaching staffs, new players, and new systems for offense and defense until we luck into a winning formula. Who cares if the current staff and front office aren't to blame for 20 years of failure!?!? We're not undefeated after 3 games so heads need to roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Yeah, we should fire the current staff because they refuse to listen to the fans; who know better how to run this team than they do. Let's just keep trying out new coaching staffs, new players, and new systems for offense and defense until we luck into a winning formula. Who cares if the current staff and front office aren't to blame for 20 years of failure!?!? We're not undefeated after 3 games so heads need to roll! You can keep rolling your eyes but continuity only works if the people you have in place are any good. Sure as hell didn't work with Cerrato, Gibbs II, Shanahan or Haslett. Preaching continuity is well and good, it's also stupid if your coach has shown nothing to deserve it. Atlanta wasn't winning anything with Mike Smith. Looks like they're doing fine now without "continuity". The bengals have had one of the most talented rosters in the league over the last five years or so yet they can't make it out of the first round, "continuity though". Weve got our GM in place now. He'll decide Jays future and I'm completely comfortable with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 You can keep rolling your eyes but continuity only works if the people you have in place are any good. Sure as hell didn't work with Cerrato, Gibbs II, Shanahan or Haslett. Preaching continuity is well and good, it's also stupid if your coach has shown nothing to deserve it. Atlanta wasn't winning anything with Mike Smith. Looks like they're doing fine now without "continuity". The bengals have had one of the most talented rosters in the league over the last five years or so yet they can't make it out of the first round, "continuity though". Weve got our GM in place now. He'll decide Jays future and I'm completely comfortable with that. Oh, so you're so good at evaluating a staff and front office that you already know if the current staff can succeed or not after THREE games? You should be a team president or at least a General Manager. Atlanta is winning in great measure because their OC is once again proving that he knows how to get the most out of his talent on offense. Not to mention that he has a very good handle on the strategies and tactics of NFL defenses. He was the same guy that fans here swore only had a job because his daddy was the head coach. So pardon me if I consider your opinion to have no more weight than mine. Weve got our GM in place now. He'll decide Jays future and I'm completely comfortable with that. You contradicted yourself. Your previous post said we had no right to expect for you to be patient. And now you say we need to wait for the GM to make the call on the current staff. So what is your position? Patience or Fire Jay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Continuity is great if there is one consistent vision that's shared throughout the entire organization. Just take a look at the head coaches we've had. Marty --> Spurrier --> Gibbs --> Zorn --> Shanahan --> Gruden. That's SIX different styles of offense. You can't really build teams when you are changing your entire system every 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Now you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. The reality is this fanbase has been incredibly patient. The fact that they can still sell as many tickets as they do proves this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Now you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. The reality is this fanbase has been incredibly patient. The fact that they can still sell as many tickets as they do proves this. Of course the fan base has been patient. Regardless of what the fans think, the organization is the one that's making every single decision. We have no input whatsoever. Everything starts at the top. If Dan actually learned anything from owning the team for so long, he will leave GMSM alone and let him handle the team without ANY input/interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Now you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. The reality is this fanbase has been incredibly patient. The fact that they can still sell as many tickets as they do proves this. Not really. I'm trying to get you and others to just chill out. Yes, this team has been a dumpster fire for a long time. I was a fan in the 60s and it wasn't till the 80s that I actually had a lot to cheer about. So I know what it means to be patient. I can understand the frustration to an extent but there is a reason to be optimistic and a reason to back off with the constant criticism. Jay Gruden and this year's staff were not here for the past 20 years. Scot McCloughan has not been here for the past 20 years. This staff and FO needs to be judged in their third year together. By then you'll have a reasonable sample to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Atlanta is winning in great measure because their OC is once again proving that he knows how to get the most out of his talent on offense. Not to mention that he has a very good handle on the strategies and tactics of NFL defenses. He was the same guy that fans here swore only had a job because his daddy was the head coach. So pardon me if I consider your opinion to have no more weight than mine. Atlanta: Quinn has changed some attitudes there. Also, the staff has made excellent adjustments second half of games, still waiting to see a Jay Gruden team do that. Kyle Shannahan called a good offense while here, given what he had to work with. His immaturity was why I questioned if he would ever be a good HC. Being humbled in DC and then escaping Cleveland might be what he needed to get his career to the next level. I am good with whatever Scot wants to do. If he believes Jay deserves another year, I am good with that. If he determines there is someone better out there, I am good with that too. Personally, I think the mentality of the team he wants to craft would work better with a defensive minded coach, but that is only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 in reality, i don't see it happening. This fan base and owner are too impatient. They want results fast. No coach is ever going to get past year 4. You saw it with Gibbs, people were ready to run even St. Joe after year 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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