CBS DC: IRS Getting Pressured To Crack Down On Televangelists Following John Oliver’s Segment

[CrypticVillain]

"And I know that some would label me a Pharisee
Because today the only heresy is saying that there's heresy:
"How dare they be specific and drop some clarity
On the popularity of the gospel of Prosperity"
Turn off TBN, that channel is overrated
The pastors speak bogus statements, financially motivated
It's kind of like a pyramid scheme
Visualize Heretics christianizing the American dream
It's foul and deceitful, they're lying to people
Teaching that camels squeeze through the eye of a needle!
Ungodly and wicked, ask yourself how can they not be convicted
Treating Jesus like a lottery ticket"

Christian Lyricist Shai Linne - Fal$e Teachers

[Larry]

Seems to be working ok for EVERY OTHER BUSINESS (except college sports).

 

Oh, come on, now. 

 

You think college sports is the only business that doesn't pay taxes? 

[MEANDWARF]

And for the record, Mr. Dwarf, I am not one who wants to do away with tax exempt statuses for churches.

I would like to see the frauds and snake oil sellers taken down hard, and i think aside from the overall public good it would bring, it would also be tremendously beneficial to actual churches and religious organizations.

 

I'm a pretty obvious atheist, but i am not one who wants to ruin your belief or nail the doors of the churches shut. I think church as a community entity is a good thing, even if i don't believe the bottom principle.

 

I think the televangelists and frauds who use religion as their hook are among the lowest scumbags on earth, and i really feel for those who they prey upon.

 

~Bang

 

 

First of all, I appreciate you not wanting to take away tax exempt status away from all churches. Because there are some good one that serve generously to the local community by was of soup kitchens and homeless shelters for those in need. But those same churches are scaping every penny to get by.

Second, don't blame you about televangelists, their are some crooked ones out there. I understand the ones that just asked for a couple dollars and in return you will receive a copy of today's sermon. And then they are guys like Jesse Duplantis whom said "He believes God wants him to have a private jet." Say Whaaaa? And then there was Oral Roberts whom told his people God will take him away unless they raise $1,000,000. C'MON PEOPLE!!

I believe one has to brush up on their common sense before they give any money to these people!

Just Sayin'!

[PeterMP]

I'm not Catholic obviously, but this doesn't apply to Protestant ministers wholly. Many live in parsonages, and many of those are falling down junk piles, but many do not either (they have mortgages like everybody else). Most pastors can barely pay their bills and have nobody to take care of them and their spouse when they are old. Its why churches like mine support a "Adopt and Annuitant" program which is sort of like a Social Security for ministers.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't Protestant ministers that are struggling to make ends meet, but I'd be curious to see some stats on that.   There certainly are some and maybe we could even use the word many, but I'd actually be curious with respect to most.  I'd like to see some actual numbers before I believe that.

 

Many religious organizations are having issues with respect to supporting retired people, including the Catholic Church.

 

With the decline of church goers in the 1st world (mostly the US and Europe), there is really an issue of supporting retired religious workers that used to support those much larger church going populations.

 

Essentially, you have a peak of religious workers that are now retired coupled with a decrease in church going populations.  In addition, over time we've seen growth in the televangelist movement (this thread), megachurches, and the strong support that we see in the US today for the prosperity gospel where those ministers might not have reaped some of the resulting economic benefits.

 

Just because there are a large number of retired Protestant ministers that have limited means doesn't mean that is true for a majority of Protestant ministers today.

 

But the fact of the matter is the televangelist movement (this thread), megachurches, and the strong support that we see in the US today for the prosperity gospel and the resulting economic benefits came out of the more independent Protestant churches .

 

(Now, I do know some successful Protestant churches where they have multiple ministers where the younger ones make very very little, but in those cases it might be more realistic to call it an internship because realistically, they are hoping to make the jump into another position where there will be greater economic benefits so while those people might be struggling to make ends meet. It isn't that much different than the large number of young people in many fields that are struggling to make ends meet.)

 

None of this is to mean that there aren't many Protestant churches and ministers that reject the ideas televangelist, megachurches, the prosperity gospel and the economic benefits that came from them.  I believe ASF is one such person, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he has trouble making ends meet.

[Zguy28]

I'm not saying that there aren't Protestant ministers that are struggling to make ends meet, but I'd be curious to see some stats on that.   There certainly are some and maybe we could even use the word many, but I'd actually be curious with respect to most.  I'd like to see some actual numbers before I believe that.

 

Many religious organizations are having issues with respect to supporting retired people, including the Catholic Church.

 

With the decline of church goers in the 1st world (mostly the US and Europe), there is really an issue of supporting retired religious workers that used to support those much larger church going populations.

 

Essentially, you have a peak of religious workers that are now retired coupled with a decrease in church going populations.  In addition, over time we've seen growth in the televangelist movement (this thread), megachurches, and the strong support that we see in the US today for the prosperity gospel where those ministers might not have reaped some of the resulting economic benefits.

 

Just because there are a large number of retired Protestant ministers that have limited means doesn't mean that is true for a majority of Protestant ministers today.

 

But the fact of the matter is the televangelist movement (this thread), megachurches, and the strong support that we see in the US today for the prosperity gospel and the resulting economic benefits came out of the more independent Protestant churches .

 

(Now, I do know some successful Protestant churches where they have multiple ministers where the younger ones make very very little, but in those cases it might be more realistic to call it an internship because realistically, they are hoping to make the jump into another position where there will be greater economic benefits so while those people might be struggling to make ends meet. It isn't that much different than the large number of young people in many fields that are struggling to make ends meet.)

 

None of this is to mean that there aren't many Protestant churches and ministers that reject the ideas televangelist, megachurches, the prosperity gospel and the economic benefits that came from them.  I believe ASF is one such person, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he has trouble making ends meet.

A good place to start.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/01/how_much_do_rabbis_priests_pastors_and_imams_earn_.html

[Bang]

First of all, I appreciate you not wanting to take away tax exempt status away from all churches. Because there are some good one that serve generously to the local community by was of soup kitchens and homeless shelters for those in need. But those same churches are scaping every penny to get by.

Second, don't blame you about televangelists, their are some crooked ones out there. I understand the ones that just asked for a couple dollars and in return you will receive a copy of today's sermon. And then they are guys like Jesse Duplantis whom said "He believes God wants him to have a private jet." Say Whaaaa? And then there was Oral Roberts whom told his people God will take him away unless they raise $1,000,000. C'MON PEOPLE!!

I believe one has to brush up on their common sense before they give any money to these people!

Just Sayin'!

 

totally agree,,  unfortunately some people aren't so strong, so smart, or so brave as to always make the right decisions in these matters, and these hucksters can be quite convincing.

And while i typically believe people get what they ask for,,,  these folks aren't asking to be exploited like that. Especially in the name of something they so deeply believe.

Sometimes we have to protect our neighbor, even if it's from himself.

 

~Bang

[DogofWar1]

I definitely oppose taking away tax exemption from all churches in a blanketed manner.  Many are definitely beneficial.  However, plenty are exploitative.

 

The line is tough to draw on exploitation, because while I'd support churches with heavy financial involvement in politics being taxed to some extent, and that line is "easier" to draw, where can we put the line on exploitation of one's congregation.  If a guy says he needs 60 million for a jet, and people give it to him, is that too much?  What about 1 million for a luxury car, still too much?

 

It's unfortunately hard to step on the toes of the big guys without being inconsistent with the little guys.  Feels open to abuse.

 

The best strategy might just be to really crack down on their use of "ministry tools."  You can buy a $60M private jet, but you'd better use it for church purposes, and any non-religious, non-reimbursed frolics are fined heavily.  Maybe also set a "minimum ministry use" percentage.  Like where they reimburse for using the private jet, but if 80% of the jet's use is non-religious, that's not really a ministry tool.

 

Getting off topic.

What about Labor Unions? They receive tax-exemptions and are always involved in political activites. Isn't that a conflict of interest?

 

It's an interesting point, but the context is sufficiently different, I think.

 

Labor Unions exist to counter corporate policies.  So long as a corporation is capable of influencing the government, labor unions must too, else the balance between corporate interests and worker interests dissolves (we've seen some of that already over the past few decades, but that's separate from the immediate issue).

 

Now, corporations pay taxes (sometimes, again, separate issue), but they also are for-profit entities with a variety of ways to increase revenue streams.  Unions tend to not have that.  They have fewer modes of revenue, and as a result they get the benefit of being tax free, compared to corporations, who have more options, but thus pay taxes.

 

Churches, meanwhile, are for worship; they exist for that purpose.  They aren't reactionary, and they are meant to provide tangible and intangible benefits to the community.

 

I think if Bernie Sanders (and some others) had his way on corporate campaign finance, you'd have a reasonable point, since then it'd just be corporation vs. union in bargaining, and not corporation+their bureaucrats vs. unions+their bureaucrats.

[Gamebreaker]

Oh, come on, now. 

 

You think college sports is the only business that doesn't pay taxes? 

 

Verizon approves this post. 

[DCSaints_fan]

This isn't true.  I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'd even be willing to hazard a guess that more than 1/2 of priests don't take a vow of poverty.

 

I've known some very wealthy priests.

 

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=46343

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2008/11/20/the-priesthood-and-the-vow-of-poverty/

 

 

Diocesan priests (i.e., priests ordained by the local bishop) generally don't take a vow of poverty, or really any other vows (no, not even chastity, though at ordination there is a promise not to marry)   Its the order priests (Francisicans, Benedicts, Jesuits, etc.) that do the standard chastity/poverty/obedience

[thebluefood]

totally agree,,  unfortunately some people aren't so strong, so smart, or so brave as to always make the right decisions in these matters, and these hucksters can be quite convincing.

And while i typically believe people get what they ask for,,,  these folks aren't asking to be exploited like that. Especially in the name of something they so deeply believe.

Sometimes we have to protect our neighbor, even if it's from himself.

 

~Bang

Unfortunately, these folks are doing the very thing the Pharisees of Jesus' time did and what many bishops did in Luther's day - exploiting people's fear for monetary gain. Too many of these televangelists take scripture so wildly out of context and twist it so out of shape that it looks absolutely nothing like the Gospels. Yet, because they're able to prey on the most vulnerable people.

[PleaseBlitz]

 

Financial turmoil,,, lol. What supports this continually happening? why do we live in a society where thievery is sold to suckers as 'free market' ? Some try to get results, and are quickly stopped by those in the pockets of the financial institutions that bleed us dry.

 

Financial turmoil could also fall under the heading of massive and major fraud committed in the name of the Lawd on people who live on fixed incomes and public assistance.

 

 

 

~Bang

 

 

We also would have accepted:

 

www.consumerfinance.gov/

www.sec.gov

www.cftc.gov

www.federalreserve.gov

www.fdic.gov

www.occ.gov

www.treasury.gov

www.finra.org

www.fhfa.gov

 

and Bernie Sanders being a thing.

[thebluefood]

Funny how a few days after I watched that John Oliver video about televangelists, I should see this little gem from Mark chapter 12, attributed to Christ Himself.
"Beware the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, and to have the best seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets! They devour widows houses and for the sake of appearances they say long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."