@DCGoldPants Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 they are headed to the endangered list. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lions-face-extinction-by-2050-could-gain-endangered-species-act-protection/ U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service director Dan Ashe warned today. The sobering news came as part of the agency's announcement that it has officially proposed that African lions receive much-needed protection under the Endangered Species Act. The decision to list the big cats as threatened—one level below endangered—would allow the U.S. government to provide some level of training and assistance for on-the-ground conservation efforts and restrict the sale of lion parts or hunting trophies into the country or across state lines. The total population of lions in Africa is currently estimated at about 34,000 animals, down by at least 50 percent from three decades ago. Those numbers, however, tell only part of the story. As Ashe pointed out during a press conference today, about 70 percent of the remaining lions—24,000 cats—live in just 10 "stronghold" regions in southern and eastern Africa. Lions in other regions, such as West Africa, have been almost completely wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm going to out all of you that sit in belt-way traffic daily for being responsible for the massacre of thousands of polar bears by destroying their habitats. I hope your businesses fail or you become unemployable and have your reputation trashed. I'm not just outraged. I'm internet outraged. You can't possibly be this thick headed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Get a grip, he shot a lion. It sucks and he should pay whatever penalty the law requires. Any more outrage than that is self serving. FYI, the laws for illegally poaching in most of those countries (if you're an African) is death. Without a trial. This dude will probably just get a big ass fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You're kidding, right? I wanted even more on Boko Haram, but it was covered very aggressively in the beginning. It's an ugly story. Frankly, with this type of "kill" and the difficulty of this kind of "hunt" shooting with a camera would have taken the same skill and earned better glory. Going after an animal totally used to humans who has a tracker in it? That's not gamesmanship or a hunt, it's just killing. Definitely not kidding. The immediate international outrage and discussion over this is the most I've seen over any event in recent memory. Now it will probably go away soon, but it seems pretty weird to me. I'm not criticizing anyone for their feelings on this (we all have different things that move us at different times), I'm just saying that I don't quite get it. By the way: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/world/africa/after-cecil-the-lions-killing-us-and-un-look-to-take-action.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&_r=0 After Cecil the Lion’s Killing, U.S. and U.N. Look to Take Action http://news.sky.com/story/1528012/cecil-the-lion-white-house-to-review-petition Cecil The Lion: White House To Review Petition The White House has said it will review a petition urging the Obama administration to send the US hunter who killed Cecil the lion to Zimbabwe to face justice. More than 140,000 signatures have been gathered for the bid to send Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer to the African country. It urges Secretary of State John Kerry and Attorney General Loretta Lynch to extradite the trophy hunter. Any petition to the White House that attracts over 100,000 names within 30 days must receive an official response. White House spokesman Josh Earnest said it is up to the Justice Department to respond to an extradition order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The response can be large and immediate because there is no opposing argument, not because the lion is more important than people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 FYI, the laws for illegally poaching in most of those countries (if you're an African) is death. Without a trial. This dude will probably just get a big ass fine. He should face whatever justice is appropriate. However, the US is not going to allow any citizen to face punishment without a trial. A 5 figure fine is about right for killing an unendangered species, even if it was beloved. Perhaps face civil liability also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 He should face whatever justice is appropriate. However, the US is not going to allow any citizen to face punishment without a trial. A 5 figure fine is about right for killing an unendangered species, even if it was beloved. Perhaps face civil liability also. Agreed. Maybe a steeper fine. Five figures is what he pays to do these hunts.. the fine should be a significant increase. I would certainly hope we don't let Zimbabwe execute him. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 I wonder what's going to happen to his co-poachers who were arrested and are citizens of Zimbabwe. There was a show I think called Rhino Wars where American Former (I think) Military went to South Africa to help them with Rhino poaching. Some investigated markets, others set up traps to catch poachers. Eventually they caught a guy who was flat out more scared of the people who were paying him to do it, than the legal side of things. I bet its the same in Zimbabwe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 i'm with you guys on the ridiculous outrage, especially on the internet, these days. but i've seen entirely too many shows/documentaries about assholes killing these endangered animals. sometimes for sport, sometimes because they want this one part because it's worth money in some other country. the worst are the ones that just tranquilize the rhinos, saw off their horn, then leave them to bleed out and die; it's the worst because not only is that just grossly inhumane, but they could harvest the horn without killing the rhino they just choose not to. what i'm saying is that even though i roll my eyes at the #getoutraged crowd these days, **** people like this dude. and i don't care if he has a family/business, people like this guy are the worst. i'm like an animal lover or something i guess. it's ok if you make fun of me for it. I would certainly hope we don't let Zimbabwe execute him. Eh, maybe the punishment should fit the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Agreed. Maybe a steeper fine. Five figures is what he pays to do these hunts.. the fine should be a significant increase. I would certainly hope we don't let Zimbabwe execute him. ~Bang We aren't going to let Zimbabwe execute him, lol. And I wouldn't condone that type of punishment for him either. I am just stating how it is in many of those countries. In Mozambique a "suspected" poacher was shot and killed right in front of my cousin, body thrown in the hull of the boat they were using to cross the river. In '01 I had a family member accidentally trespass into a national game park in Zambia (yeah, I know, he's an idiot...something we never let him forget to this day) and was almost shot. When the park rangers pulled up on him with their AKs drawn yelling, "poacher!" they said the only reason they didn't shoot him right there was because they could tell he was an American. Since he hadn't been hunting (just taking pictures), he got away with a night in jail and stiff fine. Since it's Zimbabwe we are talking about, I'm sure they'll just will want $$$. Which is fine with me. I wonder what's going to happen to his co-poachers who were arrested and are citizens of Zimbabwe. There was a show I think called Rhino Wars where American Former (I think) Military went to South Africa to help them with Rhino poaching. Some investigated markets, others set up traps to catch poachers. Eventually they caught a guy who was flat out more scared of the people who were paying him to do it, than the legal side of things. I bet its the same in Zimbabwe. I read they are off on bail right now, which is actually quite shocking to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Eh, maybe the punishment should fit the crime? Maybe they could just put a tracker in him, feed him some sedatives and let him loose in a hunting ground and let the hunters know there's a 100.000 bounty on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It is false equivalence to compare this batch of Internet Outrage to the kind where someone makes an insensitive joke on Twitter and the Gawkers of the world want the person burned at the stake. This guy is an asshole who has poached before (2008) and does the same thing again with a near-endangered species. There are real consequences of extinction, believe it or not. His defense this time is that he didn't know. Insert joke about oceanfront property in Kansas if you believe that. Anyone with a functioning brain would know not to do this and he did it anyway because he felt like it and wanted a trophy. **** him and his selfishness. I hope he gets the maximum possible prison sentence and I have no problem with people not wanting to see a dentist who is a complete prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A conservation society in Zimbabwe is suggesting he go back for community service. Pretty sure he'd get killed if he stepped foot in Zimbabwe anytime soon, though. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A conservation society in Zimbabwe is suggesting he go back for community service. Pretty sure he'd get killed if he stepped foot in Zimbabwe anytime soon, though. Just a hunch. Community service sounds good. Lions need dentists too. Actually, once met a dentist who did donate his services to the National Zoo and would treat animals. Was a pretty cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Might not be his choice if extradition goes through. He hasn't even been charged there, so until then, they can't submit an extradition package for him. I find it very interesting that he hasn't been charged yet, when the other two guys have been charged and are pending trial. Actually, only the guide has been charged. The landowner is testifying against him, so he is not being charged yet either. A conservation society in Zimbabwe is suggesting he go back for community service. Pretty sure he'd get killed if he stepped foot in Zimbabwe anytime soon, though. Just a hunch. The people of Zimbabwe don't care. They think the rest of the world are being idiots about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 RT @keithlaw I know Walter Palmer's in hiding, but I bet if we tied a wild animal to the back of a truck we could lure him out The response can be large and immediate because there is no opposing argument, not because the lion is more important than people. The opposing argument is that this type of behavior is sanctioned and "legal" because it cuts down on lion populations and overcrowding and phases out the old lions so younger ones can thrive. It's honestly ridiculous but I'm not a big game safari hunter. The excuses are that the guides were the one who did this, but he still took the shot and he still killed a lion that wasn't hurting anyone. Listen, if that lion ran into your house, and started getting all uppity and ****, you have a right to take him out. But invading his house, and dragging dead carcass to bait him out...then killing him, dragging his body, disrespecting his body like that...That is just bad karma. There are some people who do perverted things to cats and dogs and torture them and that's ****ed up. And this is kind of similar. Just ****ing leave the lion alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The people of Zimbabwe don't care. They think the rest of the world are being idiots about this. Once again, you're wrong. Have you read articles on their reactions? Have you read up on the financial hit the tourism industry in Zimbabwe is taking now that Cecil is dead? Educate yourself before you make ridiculous statements like this. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 EDIT: On the first day of class, he also offered to give everyone (about 70 students) a B+ and allow us to do whatever when wanted for the 3x/week, 50 minute class. But then he said that he'd also give out 5 A's to whoever wanted them. He then told us we had to take an anonymous vote, and whoever wanted to get an A had to write that on their ballot, but if he got more than 5 people asking for an A the deal was off. So about 10 people asked for A's. Then he told us that it was the "tragedy of the commons" at work and that we were all greedy capitalists, and therefore had to pretend to listen for the rest of the semester.. For those wondering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons That professor sounds like he might have been pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1ffdaac144d5424fba9a68b3a9bfefd1/un-adopts-resolution-combat-illegal-wildlife-trafficking UN adopts resolution to combat illegal wildlife trafficking The U.N. General Assembly unanimously adopted its first-ever resolution aimed at combatting illicit trafficking in wildlife on Thursday as its sponsors expressed outrage at the killing of a beloved protected lion in Zimbabwe. The resolution, approved by consensus by the 193-member world body, is not legally binding. But its universal support reflects growing global opposition to the escalating poaching and trafficking, especially in elephant and rhinoceros horns, but also in other wild animals and plants. It follows recent commitments by the United States and China, the world's top market for illegal ivory, to end commercial ivory trading. The resolution, sponsored by Gabon and Germany and co-sponsored by over 70 countries, urges all nations "to take decisive steps at the national level to prevent, combat and eradicate the illegal trade in wildlife, on both the supply and demand sides." The assembly said this should include strengthening legislation to prevent, investigate and prosecute illegal trading and called on all countries to make illicit trafficking involving organized criminal groups "a serious crime." Gabon's Foreign Minister Emmanuel Issoze-Ngondet praised the adoption of the resolution, which is the product of more than two years of negotiations, as "a historic step." Germany's U.N. Ambassador Harald Braun told reporters that illegal trafficking in wildlife has become a huge global business and the money made from it is now a leading source of financing terrorism around the world. "A pound of rhino horn today yields more than a pound of gold" on the black market, Braun said. "And the tusks of a hundred thousand elephants that were poached last year ... (represent) an enormous economic value," but still only a fraction of the value of living elephants for tourism and the economy of many African countries. The sponsors were asked whether the resolution would have done anything to help save Cecil, the African lion that was reportedly lured out of a protected area and shot by an American hunter earlier this month. "I think like most people in the world we are outraged at what happened to this poor lion," Braun said. "Hunting activities are partly legal, partly illegal. It is this resolution which fights all the illegal aspects of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well thank goodness the UN did something. Right? "The resolution, approved by consensus by the 193-member world body, is not legally binding." ... The assembly said this should include strengthening legislation to prevent, investigate and prosecute illegal trading and called on all countries to make illicit trafficking involving organized criminal groups "a serious crime." Gabon's Foreign Minister Emmanuel Issoze-Ngondet praised the adoption of the resolution, which is the product of more than two years of negotiations, as "a historic step." So they offered up a suggestion that nations do something. A suggested course of vague action that only passed because a famous lion's poaching created enough public support to push through after two year of negotiations failed to do so. When asked if it would have done anything to save this famous lion that created all the fuss they answered with essential "of course it would because... excuse me I have to get to a meeting." A historic step indeed, I'm sure they celebrated their grand achievement and congratulated each other on another job well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 http://news.yahoo.com/zimbabwe-calls-us-hunter-extradited-over-lion-death-091554838.html Zimbabwe calls for US hunter to be extradited over lion death Zimbabwe on Friday called for Walter Palmer, a trophy hunter from Minnesota, to be extradited from the United States for shooting Cecil the lion, whose death triggered worldwide outrage. Palmer allegedly paid $50,000 for the hunt earlier this month in which he shot the lion with a powerful bow and arrow close to Hwange national park in the west of Zimbabwe. Cecil, who had a distinctive black mane, was a popular tourist attraction among visitors to the park and was also wearing a collar as part of a University of Oxford research project. "We are appealing to the responsible authorities for (Palmer's) extradition to Zimbabwe so that he can be made accountable for his illegal actions," environment minister Oppah Muchinguri told reporters in Harare. "Unfortunately it was too late to apprehend the foreign poacher as he had already absconded to his country of origin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Nobody is getting extradited. He'll never get to enjoy his "trophy". He'll never get his money back. I'm wondering if any of his buddies will go hunting with him again. His professional career is taking a hit and I'm betting he has to move. I wouldn't be surprised if in his state they credit some harsher penalties for poaching or hunting/fishing without a licenses....and name the bill after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hopefully karma takes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Apparently, the good dentist is on the lam. Not typically a convincing method of protesting your innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 If the people from Zimbabwe that were with him are to be believed, there's really no innocence to find here. Dude apparently asked to go hunt a giant elephant right after he shot the lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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