Yahoo: Report: Patriots being investigated for using deflated footballs in AFC championship game

[MrSilverMaC]

Anyone claiming that people wanting a punishment are simply "patriot haters" are intellectually dishonest and lazy.

[ixcuincle]

Anyone claiming that people wanting a punishment are simply "patriot haters" are intellectually dishonest and lazy.

 

No one is saying there shouldn't be any punishment, if a transgression happened. However, take a look at the Wells report and see that the section about the deflated balls and measurement is based on sketchy recollection. In fact the NFL's entire case, built on the Wells Report, was thrown out and mocked by the judge. 

 

If there was to be a punishment it should have been a fine. Not 4 games. That was overkill. 

 

How often do you copy and paste posts from other boards?

 

You'd be surprised. It's done because 1) I'm copying and pasting my own rants and 2) It increases exposure throughout three forums. 

[grego]

Ix- you think the ball boys deflated the balls.... Just cuz they felt like it? You think the term deflator was cuz one was losing weight?

[MrSilverMaC]

If there was to be a punishment it should have been a fine. Not 4 games. That was overkill.

Overkill if it was a one time thing? Sure. Overkill for systemic cheating? I think it was a slap on the wrist.

And yes, there are people saying that there should be no punishment. There are people who are flat out saying nothing happened. You yourself have alluded to that by questioning the air pressure in the balls.

If you believe that this was all a witch hunt and the patriots were framed then why would you be ok with even a 10k fine?

If there was even a hint that the patriots were being unfairly targeted I would be on the opposite side of this. I'm a skins fan, I know how it feels for my team to be hit with a bull**** fine for made up stuff. But that's not the case. There is plenty of evidence that points to a systemic effort to gain an unfair advantage.

One nfl team contacted a rival nfl team just to give them a heads up about this issue. Clearly they felt it was a big enough deal and that it needed to be watched for. Or do you really believe that the ravens hate the patriots more than they hate the colts and that we're all part of some weird conspiracy to besmirch the good name of Robert Kraft?

[GoSkins0721]

One nfl team contacted a rival nfl team just to give them a heads up about this issue. Clearly they felt it was a big enough deal and that it needed to be watched for. Or do you really believe that the ravens hate the patriots more than they hate the colts and that we're all part of some weird conspiracy to besmirch the good name of Robert Kraft?

 

Great point. Yeah, the city of Ballmer treasures the close friendship it has with the city that stole their team. 

[ixcuincle]

Last rant because I'm tired of everyone bashing the Patriots. Spygate is one of the most overrated incidents in league history. First of all the Patriots were just doing something that the Jets themselves did the season prior. Second of all, the Jets snitched on the Patriots doing these tapings and the the league dictated punishment. So then the Patriots received their punishment. Do you know what they did after that?

I'll let you in on something - they went on an undefeated regular season and went to the Super Bowl. Yet somehow there is this notion that they did this because of cheating. They didn't cheat their way to the super bowl. How could they cheat their way to the Super Bowl if the infraction happened Week 1? They went undefeated until the last game of the season, AFTER they got busted. Do you think the league turned a blind eye to their taping and said "Yeah, we busted you and punished you severely for that, the first time. Keep doing it."

I mean all the Patriots accusations and allegations are easily dismissed if you have an open mind and actually analyze them. Spygate, deflategate, all of it, nonsense. That image makes me mad because it ignores Brady's HoF credentials and just calls him normal. Yes, you could fill in Cassel for Brady and still have a winning record, but Brady is an elite QB who has reached where he is by hard work and dedication. Not by some deflated ball. Not by some defensive signal taping scandal. Give the guy some damn credit.

[Edit] [Reply]

[LeesburgSkinFan]

ESPN, still smarting from their terrible Deflategate reporting, has come out with both barrels blazing in this devastating report:

 

http://deadspin.com/bombshell-espn-report-the-patriots-were-huge-cheaters-1729286402

[Destino]

ESPN, still smarting from their terrible Deflategate reporting, has come out with both barrels blazing in this devastating report:

http://deadspin.com/bombshell-espn-report-the-patriots-were-huge-cheaters-1729286402

Well now, that would explain why Goodell put up a circus tent in response to deflated footballs. The other owners weren't happy with his favoritism and now he's got to go overboard to show he's not in Kraft's pocket.

[grego]

I mean all the Patriots accusations and allegations are easily dismissed if you have an open mind and actually analyze them. Spygate, deflategate, all of it, nonsense. That image makes me mad because it ignores Brady's HoF credentials and just calls him normal. Yes, you could fill in Cassel for Brady and still have a winning record, but Brady is an elite QB who has reached where he is by hard work and dedication. Not by some deflated ball. Not by some defensive signal taping scandal. Give the guy some damn credit.

[Edit] [Reply]

 

you should save your anger cuz i dont think anyone is saying that. not here, anyway, although i have heard about a radio host alluding to something like that, which is nutty. 

 

for me, it has more to do with a culture of cheating pushing the boundaries a little too far (as you'll probably see in this latest report).

 

add to that brady and kraft standing up on their soapbox denying brady did what he clearly did. had he admitted to instructing that the balls be deflated (he could have even worded it like 'i wanted them deflated only to the lowest acceptable limit, which is 11.5 psi') i would have much more respect for the guy. 

 

but to have the chutzpah to lie about it and shift the blame to an unpopular commissioner (who, again, any redskins fan despises due to his handling of the salary cap penalty) is just galling.

[Stadium-Armory]

Robert Kraft is well liked - and more importantly - a key member of NFL leadership who the commissioner actively seeks to protect. Our owner is not well liked and his team gets punished with a large salary cap fine. Perhaps another way in which our owner's style is not benefiting our on-field product.

[codeorama]

Say what you want, but the Pats are cheaters.  The new report just sheds more light on them.  Frauds.

[justice98]

Breaking into hotel rooms to steal stuff is flat out criminal behavior.  And team sponsored, at that. 

[RiggosMohawk]

ESPN, still smarting from their terrible Deflategate reporting, has come out with both barrels blazing in this devastating report:

 

http://deadspin.com/bombshell-espn-report-the-patriots-were-huge-cheaters-1729286402

 

Apparently the PR machine behind this, presumably the NFL FO, staffs from ex-Redskins PR personnel. A good follow-on article digesting some of the details in the OTL article

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/mike-martz-was-shocked-by-apparent-changes-to-statement-he-gave-to-the-nfl/

 

I completely agree with the closing statement of the article. If true, this could be bigger than any #gate the NFL has dealt with, and do exactly what the NFL wisely avoided (apparently at any cost) - Congress poking their nose into the owners' business with subpeona power.

[Rodriggo]

Them arguing that it was "ineffective" yet proceeding to do it FOR YEARS, evolving it, perfecting it along the way, is the HEIGHT of irony.

 

"Oh, this secretive multi-faceted conspiracy to figure out what PLAY the other team is gonna run? Nah, it never really worked, trust us....nothing to see here."

 

Goodell should be fired. They should reopen Spygate and vacate wins and championships. Belicheck should be suspended retroactively for every subsequent offense, failure to comply with investigation should be a lifetime ban.

 

Can't wait for Teddy Bruschi and other ex-Pats to sweep this under the rug the first chance they get. Rather guys get juiced than steal signs. Pathetic.

[GoSkins0721]

I completely agree with the closing statement of the article. If true, this could be bigger than any #gate the NFL has dealt with, and do exactly what the NFL wisely avoided (apparently at any cost) - Congress poking their nose into the owners' business with subpeona power.

Yeah, that will be some serious **** if Congress gets involved. Why is this coming out now (the ESPN OTL article)? I don't understand this taking 7 years to write or investigate. 

 

One thing stood out to me from the ESPN article - my highlight:

 

"The first thick paragraph detailing prohibited acts reads like a litany of Spygate-era acts and accusations, including "unauthorized videotaping on game day or of practices, meetings or other organized team activities" and the barring of "unauthorized entry into locker rooms, coaches' booths, meeting rooms or other private areas." At the same time, the league also relaxed its investigative standard of proof to the "preponderance of the evidence," making findings of guilt easier, and required the signees to cooperate with NFL investigations."

 

There's that term. All of the owners agreed to it. Also explains why ignorance by Brady about cooperation is bull****. Further, it makes Kraft responsible for ensuring his employees adhere to the standards he signed (just like any other owner). Sure, define "cooperate" - I don't think that means you can destroy your cellphone in the face of an investigation 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That ESPN story really changes everything.

 

They were literally acting like Greg Brady and stealing playbooks and ****.

[drowland]

The book "Spygate: The Untold Story" came out a few years back.  The book was hardly even noticed.  The author discussed most of the tactics that ESPN has brought out in the latest article, so I was not surprised.  But even the author didn't know about burglarizing the other teams locker room. 

 

The book spent a good number of pages discussing the Patriots' performance at home against the betting line.  A professor at SMU calculated the odds against their performance at 4000 to 1.  That can only be explained by 2 possibilities.  An unusual natural advantage such as the Broncos' high altitude, or cheating.  The Patriots cheated....alot.

 

Roger Goodell convinced the owners that the true story of Spygate going public was FAR worse than the risk of keeping it under wraps.  They also had to tiptoe the line of punishing the Patriots, but not so much that it would reveal the gravity of what they did.  

[Destino]

That ESPN story really changes everything.

 

They were literally acting like Greg Brady and stealing playbooks and ****.

 

Consider how Sean Payton got suspended for a year which reportedly cost him 7.5 million dollars.  Bill Belichick organized a long running cheating operation complete with trying to steal gameday plays and playbooks and got a 500k fine, no suspension, and the league covered up the extent of it. 

 

- Staff searching/burglarizing visiting teams hotel.

- Staff burglarizing visiting teams locker room.

- Strategically tampering with visiting teams communication system during the game.

- Video taping signals and corresponding plays.

- Providing resources and personnel to compile and edit that footage.

- Providing resources and personnel to process stolen information into something the coaches could use on game day

- Brought recently signed players from opposing teams in to check the accuracy of their signal stealing methods. 

 

This extensive and evolving program of cheating called a "misunderstanding of the rules" by Belichick.  Incredible that he is still allowed to work with the NFL in any capacity. 

[Going Commando]

That is a magnificent piece of reporting. This is completely damning for both Goodell and the Patriots. Belichek's legacy is going to be tarnished for good.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Pretty amazing report. Some of that stuff I had heard whispers about, but some of it is new and amazing.

 

One thing I think has been tough in the whole Spygate issue is that I don't think people realize, or maybe just think about, the extent to which opposing coaches and players can recognize "something's wrong here" beyond just being outplayed. The problem being, as soon as they say anything people label them whiners and excuse-makers.

[GoSkins0721]

Pretty amazing report. Some of that stuff I had heard whispers about, but some of it is new and amazing.

 

One thing I think has been tough in the whole Spygate issue is that I don't think people realize, or maybe just think about, the extent to which opposing coaches and players can recognize "something's wrong here" beyond just being outplayed. The problem being, as soon as they say anything people label them whiners and excuse-makers.

Agreed. Which is why, I think, the whole deflating of game balls went on for so long. Obviously, from the internal Colts email, it was known throughout the league that NE was doing it. To your point, no one wanted to say anything. That is until the Ravens apparently had enough. I thought I read where they accused/thought that NE did something to alter the air in the BLT kicking balls (less air, I believe). Pissed off about that and having a former coach in Indy they alerted the Colts.  

 

Wasn't it last year the Redskins were playing somebody & the offense complained after the game the opponent knew the plays before they ran them? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

The SI report is a lot less damning or remarkable. There were a few interesting tidbits in it. One, which was probably the least illegal thing they did, kind of proves to what extent they go to be dirtbags:

 

In some cases there is no rule explicitly banning the alleged actions. One example: Another AFC team has brought its own sports drinks because the ones the Patriots supply are often late, warm or both. Unethical? Or just gamesmanship? “They’ve created a culture where that type of behavior is encouraged and rewarded,” one team executive says. “Everybody there is supposed to make the visitor uncomfortable—do everything that is borderline against the rules, but clearly against the principles of good sportsmanship.”

 

[GoSkins0721]

The SI report is a lot less damning or remarkable. There were a few interesting tidbits in it. One, which was probably the least illegal thing they did, kind of proves to what extent they go to be dirtbags:

 

Wow..These are grown men we're talking about, right? SMDH. No wonder Reggie Wayne wanted out and said they're "no fun". Probably told him to verify all of the Colt hand signals they have on file. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Wow..These are grown men we're talking about, right? SMDH. No wonder Reggie Wayne wanted out and said they're "no fun". Probably told him to verify all of the Colt hand signals they have on file. 

It's all OK, apparently. Bill Simmons has (predictably) called everyone whiners and fallen back on the 'we would have won anyway' line.

[Larry]

The SI report is a lot less damning or remarkable. There were a few interesting tidbits in it. One, which was probably the least illegal thing they did, kind of proves to what extent they go to be dirtbags:

But some of that petty ****, while I have a problem with it, seems to be just accepted practice. (In fact, the team doing it often gets congratulated for their cleverness.)

I think I've been hearing for 20 years, about a bank of fire doors in the Meadowlands, that suddenly all get opened, whenever the visiting team is lining up to kick a field goal.

 

Then there's the accusations of teams pumping in face crowd noise, again, only for visiting team's third downs. 

It's all OK, apparently. Bill Simmons has (predictably) called everyone whiners and fallen back on the 'we would have won anyway' line.

 

That's one of the irritating things, to me. 

 

I really assume that the Pats would have been a great team, without this cheating.  (Obviously, getting caught didn't exactly cause them to collapse into suddenly-revealed mediocrity.) 

 

Some of these things are like catching some dude voting twice in an election.  It's cheating, but does anybody really think it changed the election?