Yahoo: Report: Patriots being investigated for using deflated footballs in AFC championship game

[Rufus T Firefly]

But that's sort of the way law works isn't it? If you can find a new angle to exploit do it till there is a law against it. Like what we're seeing with commercial drones.

Like I said, he deserved the suspension and honestly probably worse, but if the nfl left a loophole the judge was right for ruling the way they did because as far as I understand that's all Brady was challenging.

Nope, that's not the way it works. The CBA specifically gave Goodell th authority to decide such things because it is quite literally impossible to name a specific punishment for every possible transgression. But the judge decided to use that flimsy excuse to overturn it, which again makes a dangerous precedent. i.e. "hey the rules don't say what the punishment is for putting laxatives in my opponents drinking water, so you have to let it go". People really should be more troubled by this.

 

And also troubling is the fact that the judge used Brady's second half stats vs Indy as one of his top footnotes for the case. Those couldn't be less relevant to the case. 

[GoSkins0721]

MrSMac & Rufus... What I think happened is this (not that either of you necessarily care): 

 

After reviewing the Wells report, Vincent & Goodell knew this wasn't just a 1 time occurrence. They saw this as a weekly event of NE altering approved footballs. Remember, this started out as Indy complaining about 1 game. The texts from Heckle & Jeckle showed this was a season long practice. So, it was apparent, even to the casual observer, that had Brady orchestrated it. In light of the power bestowed on Goodell from the previous cheating scandal in NE (Spygate) the owners agreed to allow harsher punishments against transgressions associated with 'the integrity of the game'. Further, the owners agreed to the 'preponderance of evidence' which the Wells report stated a couple of times. So Goodell agreed to the punishment that Vincent gave Brady thinking he had been given the green light from the owners to hit violators hard. I've said this before: I honestly think Goodell wanted to give Brady a harsher penalty (if you read his report I believe you'll come away feeling the same way). His justification was it was similar to the Browns GM suspension AND to anyone who sought to gain a competitive advantage through the use of PDA's. Which, when considering what Brady did, is almost exactly what the Browns GM did & similar to anyone using PDAs did - it provided a competitive advantage. Plus, Brady didn't cooperate - another topic all of the owners agreed to after 'Spygate'. This gave Vincent & Goodell everything they needed to support the suspension.

 

I'm convinced **** Kraft agreed to the penalties so quickly for fear of a deeper investigation into the incident - Belichick, other NE coaches, etc. He also thought his buddy Goodell would let Brady slide by copping to the crime. Let's face it, losing draft picks & money to NE is chicken scratch. They still have the cap space so they can go pay some top-tier FA the money instead of a draft pick next year. Big ****ing deal. It's not like they lost the cap space & had it distributed to the other 31 teams. 

 

The blowback now is people assume the judges decision exonerated Brady & NE. So now there is no penalty to the player who organized the cheating. And, as you both pointed out, without a clear list of punishments for a specific crime the inmates are running the asylum. Or, in this case, the cheaters are saying "catch me if you want, but there isn't a defined penalty so I don't give a ****". Really ****ing sad. 

 

I may watch the Redskins game this weekend, only because I've been following them for over 50 years. But, I have no intention of ever spending another dime on anything NFL related: games, tv, merchandise, etc. And, I won't spend another Sunday, Monday, Thursday night watching an NFL game if the Redskins aren't playing. Yeah, maybe it's a stupid point of view, but I've lost interest in it. There's too many inconsistencies for me to think the game is being played on a level playing field. And you know what? I'm looking forward to the Fall in Virginia. Sunday's at a winery or walking the beaches on the Bay. I'll get my football fix by attending some U of Richmond football. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Patriots are habitual line steppers and have cheated.

 

No NFL organization is squeaky clean

 

Tomlin sounds like a little baby crying about the headset thing. He should worry about teaching his team to tackle a scrub RB, have 11 guys on the field, not put a LB on Gronk in the red zone and maybe have SOMEBODY cover him when he lines up wide. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Patriots are habitual line steppers and have cheated.

 

No NFL organization is squeaky clean

 

Tomlin sounds like a little baby crying about the headset thing. He should worry about teaching his team to tackle a scrub RB, have 11 guys on the field, not put a LB on Gronk in the red zone and maybe have SOMEBODY cover him when he lines up wide. 

So, if your team doesn't play a perfect game then you're not allowed to point out that something always goes wrong with communications in Foxboro? OK, then.

[kost203]

just wait till we go up to foxbourgh. I expect nothing than out right cheating from the patriots

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

So, if your team doesn't play a perfect game then you're not allowed to point out that something always goes wrong with communications in Foxboro? OK, then.

Sounded like a sore loser to me.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Sounded like a sore loser to me.

Yeah, the way he didn't say or even imply that the headset issue had anything to do with his team losing,  pretty clearly showed him to be a sore loser. 

 

It's just a shame how people keep talking about how known cheaters actually cheat. We must find a way to stop that.

[Dan T.]

[Pape]

This thread is comical.

 

So the Patriots are the source of all evil in the NFL and need an SMU-type penalty? That seems like the only answer some of you will be satisfied with.

 

99% of the allegations against the Patriots are garbage. The 1%, which was that the Patriots filmed opposing teams defensive signals they owned up to. They admitted it and took their punishment. The rest? Garbage.

 

Stealing playsheets and playbooks from lockerrooms? BS.

 

How stupid would an opposing team have to be knowing the "rep" of the Pats have to be to

1) leave thier lockerroom unattended at Gillette

2) leave their scripted plays and playbooks lying around in such areas?

3) just toss playsheets and game information in the trash at hotels?

 

As for Ballghazi, or PSI:NE or deflate gate - why was

1) the report so obviously biased if they had the goods on the team

2) why were only snippets of the text conversations released? Where were the rest of them that could/should have provided context to the conversations?

3) Why so few texts related to an on-going scheme?

4) Why did Exponent have to rig the outcome of its analysis?

5) Why were the Pats balls inflated to 16psi in the Jets game if this was an ongoing process?

 

As for the walk thru, the Pats employees had the right to be at that location prior to Super Bowl 36. If the Rams were con concerned with a walk thru, why didn't their security escort out the people they didnt know? Sheer stupidity on their part.

 

 

I get that people hate the Pats. But really, to believe every single little thing that was alleged is just amazingly stupid.

[GoSkins0721]

^^Well looky looky! The "Deflator" went and got himself an ES account.

 

I guess he can afford to pay his monthly internet fee since he got his job back!

[MrSilverMaC]

This thread is comical.

Comical to me is the fact most of your post seems to be blaming other teams for letting the patriots cheat because they didn't realize that the pats were into burglary/theft or lurking in a place they had no right to be.

99% false accusations against the poor victimized patriots. Tell me pape, how many billion dollar organizations do you know who allow a major news outlet to basically call them cheating, lying, thieving scum with no recourse? Did Enron sue when they were being called cheating, lying, scumbags? I personally don't know of any organizations except those that are cheating, lying, thieving scumbag companies who know the weight of evidence is so lopsided against them that they'd be laughed out of court for trying to sue.

Perhaps you'll fill us in on how the deflator is doing with his weight loss while you're putting together that list of innocent companies I asked for.

[Taylor 36]

Comical to me is the fact most of your post seems to be blaming other teams for letting the patriots cheat because they didn't realize that the pats were into burglary/theft or lurking in a place they had no right to be.

99% false accusations against the poor victimized patriots. Tell me pape, how many billion dollar organizations do you know who allow a major news outlet to basically call them cheating, lying, thieving scum with no recourse? Did Enron sue when they were being called cheating, lying, scumbags? I personally don't know of any organizations except those that are cheating, lying, thieving scumbag companies who know the weight of evidence is so lopsided against them that they'd be laughed out of court for trying to sue.

Perhaps you'll fill us in on how the deflator is doing with his weight loss while you're putting together that list of innocent companies I asked for.

Actually, ESPN has had to apologize to the Patriots, though they did it in the cover of late night showing the BS cowards they are, due to their shotty reporting.  Interestingly enough, it was for falsely reporting news that many of the Patriots hates in this thread are still trying to use as "proof" of their cheating, though it has been proven to be false.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25275763/espn-apologizes-to-patriots-for-citing-erroneous-2008-super-bowl-report

 

And, let's not kid ourselves.  Just as the Redskins and the Cowboys were stuck not being able to go to court over the bogus Capgate, the Pats, being a member of the league that is in a multi-billion dollar bed with ESPN, the network that put out the most ridiculous, unsubstantiated story filled with "anonymous" sources, makes it damn near impossible for them to go after without cutting off part of their own lifeline.  ESPN, the same network that Redskins fans blast for their BS reporting of the Redskins and all of their crap filled anonymous articles, but some how is now the voice of truth when it serves our purposes and says what we want to hear and believe.  Crazy, huh?

[grego]

This thread is comical.

 

 

 

do you believe brady knew about the deflated balls?

 

why or why not?

[MrSilverMaC]

Actually, ESPN has had to apologize to the Patriots

yeah, I saw that. But to clarify the patriots did watch the Rams walk through they just didn't tape it. This recent report isn't the type you apologize for, it's the type you lawyer up for if your ducks aren't in a row.

Just as the Redskins and the Cowboys were stuck not being able to go to court over the bogus Capgate...

If we're being honest suing the nfl for antitrust is in a different universe from the patriots suing ESPN for defamation. One kills the nfl the other stops a damaging narrative that isn't true by a hostile news organization according to some.

[Pape]

^^Well looky looky! The "Deflator" went and got himself an ES account.

 

I guess he can afford to pay his monthly internet fee since he got his job back!

 

Thats cute.

 

Sarcasm, the last defense of the witless.

 

John G. Pollard

[GoSkins0721]

Thats cute.

 

Sarcasm, the last defense of the witless.

 

John G. Pollard

 

“She...can talk brillantly upon any subject provided she knows nothing about it.” 

― Oscar Wilde

[Pape]

Comical to me is the fact most of your post seems to be blaming other teams for letting the patriots cheat because they didn't realize that the pats were into burglary/theft or lurking in a place they had no right to be.

99% false accusations against the poor victimized patriots. Tell me pape, how many billion dollar organizations do you know who allow a major news outlet to basically call them cheating, lying, thieving scum with no recourse? Did Enron sue when they were being called cheating, lying, scumbags? I personally don't know of any organizations except those that are cheating, lying, thieving scumbag companies who know the weight of evidence is so lopsided against them that they'd be laughed out of court for trying to sue.

Perhaps you'll fill us in on how the deflator is doing with his weight loss while you're putting together that list of innocent companies I asked for.

 

 

1. I am not blaming other teams, except the Rams. What I am saying is that If they believe New England is up to so much chicanery, why on earth would they allow anything of a compromising nature be left out in the open? It makes Zero sense. Why wouldnt they leave a person behind in the locker room if they were so concerned? Or are the just stupid? At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

The ony team that is blame worthy - The Rams. They knew the Pats employees were there, on site during their walk thru for the Super Bowl. Hello!!! They were just plain old stupid for letitng them stay.

 

2. What legal recourse did the Patriots have besides going maverick in regards to deflategate? The option to sue? That is not a real option for a franchise in the NFL due to the partnership agreement. Yet it was considered. Ultimately Kraft came to the realization that he did not have any legal remedy to the situation at hand.

 

Just because a team does not initiate legal proceedings does not mean that they are "guilty". The Washington Redskins and the Dallas Cowboys were stripped of millions of dollars in cap space because they "cheated" the salary cap. Huh? That was not cheating. It was certainly taking advantage of the un-capped year, but it wasn't cheating. Those contracts they "cheated" with were all league approved. Yet you all lost millions in cap space. Why didn't the Redskins sue to get the cap space back? Was it because they actually cheated? Or was it because there was no legal remedy to the issue? Or are the Redskins a "cheating, lying, theiving scumbag company" too?

 

As for the open ended question you asked, a list of companies, I am unfortunately unable to comply wth your request. I am not going to google the question and spend hours pouring over accusations made against companies.

 

 

But I know your type man ... you have bought into the narrative that has been set down, the one that villifies the Patriots and scorns and ridicules everything they have acheived. The hate and the anger are seething in your response.

“She...can talk brillantly upon any subject provided she knows nothing about it.” 

― Oscar Wilde

 

 

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" MLK

 

yeah I can play the quote game all day long

[Pape]

do you believe brady knew about the deflated balls?

 

why or why not?

 

I do not belive that there were deflated footballs. I do not believe there was a scheme in place to deflate the footballs. Why? Because there was and is No Evidence. None. Zip. Zilch.

 

The fact that Exponent had to go to the lengths it did in order the come up with their "conclusions" in the Wells Report is proof enough that the whole investigation was a sham. This was an effort by people in the League front office who were out to get the Patriots for one reason or another. But I have no solid evidence of that either. I can offer no proof except to say - look at the process that was involved. Something that should and could have been wrapped up in a week and yet took months and millions of dollars to come up with what exactly what? a report that was written from the get-go with a foregone conclusion.

[grego]

I do not belive that there were deflated footballs. I do not believe there was a scheme in place to deflate the footballs. Why? Because there was and is No Evidence. None. Zip. Zilch.

The fact that Exponent had to go to the lengths it did in order the come up with their "conclusions" in the Wells Report is proof enough that the whole investigation was a sham. This was an effort by people in the League front office who were out to get the Patriots for one reason or another. But I have no solid evidence of that either. I can offer no proof except to say - look at the process that was involved. Something that should and could have been wrapped up in a week and yet took months and millions of dollars to come up with what exactly what? a report that was written from the get-go with a foregone conclusion.

You believe there were deflated footballs. So do I.

Then, what about the text messages. Combine that with the unlikelyhood that the ball boys took it upon themselves to deflate the balls just because they felt like it.

Do you believe it's more probable that not that Brady at the least knew about it?

By the way, I agree with you on the cap penalty. That was truly an injustice.

[Pape]

You believe there were deflated footballs. So do I.

Then, what about the text messages. Combine that with the unlikelyhood that the ball boys took it upon themselves to deflate the balls just because they felt like it.

Do you believe it's more probable that not that Brady at the least knew about it?

By the way, I agree with you on the cap penalty. That was truly an injustice.

 

 

The Skins and Cowboys cap violations were an injustice, no doubt.

 

 

As for deflate gate, let me make this clear, as you seem to have misunderstood:

 

Tom Brady, McNally and Jaztremski did not act in concert to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

 

McNally and Jaztremsky did not act on their own to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

 

Tom Brady did not tell the dynamic duo to deflate footballs after they had been approved by the refs.

 

Tom Brady was not and is not generally aware that such things happened because they did not happen.

 

 

As for the text messages, I do not know because I do not have the entire conversations to read. What was the context of the quotes in the converstaion as a whole? How can I answer that without that knowledge? I would love for all that information to be released. The NFL has it, yet they won't release it.

 

The NFL and Roger Goodell has lied time and time again regarding this issue. They have gone out of their way to paint the Patriots and Brady in the most negative light possible,

[grego]

Tom Brady, McNally and Jaztremski did not act in concert to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

McNally and Jaztremsky did not act on their own to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

Tom Brady did not tell the dynamic duo to deflate footballs after they had been approved by the refs.

Tom Brady was not and is not generally aware that such things happened because they did not happen.

How did you come to these definitive conclusions?

(Iirc, there was video of one of the ball boys going into a closet with the balls and coming out a minute or two later)

I'll pull up the text messages in a bit- they are in the thread somewhere.

They are a big part of why people believe Brady was in on it.

[grego]

heres a short breakdown of the texts we know about-

 

Ultimately the Wells Report concludes that it's likely that McNally was directly responsible for defelating footballs used during a playoff game against the Indianapolis Colts, taking the balls from the officials' locker room before ducking into a bathroom to do the dirty work, but that it's unlikely he acted without Brady's "knowledge and approval."

How does the report conclude this? Well, for starters, text messages between McNally and Jastremski.

Here is one exchange from Oct. 17, 2014. Brady had just griped about the feel of the balls during a Thursday night game against the New York Jets:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/-tom-sucks---a-breakdown-of-the-text-messages-in-the-deflategate-report-191237439.html

 

 

 

its pretty difficult to believe that brady didnt know about this after reading those texts. 

[GoSkins0721]

As for deflate gate, let me make this clear, as you seem to have misunderstood:

 

Tom Brady, McNally and Jaztremski did not act in concert to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

 

McNally and Jaztremsky did not act on their own to deflate footballs after they had been approved for play by the refs.

 

Tom Brady did not tell the dynamic duo to deflate footballs after they had been approved by the refs.

 

Tom Brady was not and is not generally aware that such things happened because they did not happen.

 

 

As for the text messages, I do not know because I do not have the entire conversations to read. What was the context of the quotes in the converstaion as a whole? How can I answer that without that knowledge? I would love for all that information to be released. The NFL has it, yet they won't release it.

 

The NFL and Roger Goodell has lied time and time again regarding this issue. They have gone out of their way to paint the Patriots and Brady in the most negative light possible,

 

Your opinions, stated as fact, are tiresome. 

 

There has been ample discussion in this thread, including numerous textual excerpts from both the Wells & Goodell documents to refute your opinions. 

 

We get it. You disagree. Now pickup your deflated ball and go back to your message board home. 

[Pape]

what was the context of that conversation?

 

Was McNally the one responsible for inflating the balls after they were prepared for use by Jaztremsky? If so, it makes sense McNally would have need of a needle. 

 

Si=o oin this instance is McNally is talking about handing watermelons to the refs for approval? Or is he talking about over-inflating footballs after the refs approved the footballs?

 

So which is it? As I said - Context Matters.

 

And where is the text stating that Brady told them to delfate the footballs?

 

 

Your opinions, stated as fact, are tiresome. 

 

There has been ample discussion in this thread, including numerous textual excerpts from both the Wells & Goodell documents to refute your opinions. 

 

We get it. You disagree. Now pickup your deflated ball and go back to your message board home. 

 

I do disagree. And I'm sorry (actually I'm not) I disagree with the narrative thats been written here regarding this issue. If you don't like it, take your balls, go hide in a closet and don't reply to my posts.

[grego]

Pape, I agree with you about context, but I can't imagine a context that exonerates Brady.

They either did it themselves, or with bradys knowledge, there is no third option. And the former is not only completely unbelievable, the text messages also implicate Tom.

If you can't objectively see that, then I think you're just playing defense attorney or your mind is made up.