grego Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 And no matter what happened during his last year here, or the first three, to debate whether or not Gruden or Shanny is the better coach is laughable. If gruden becomes a .500 career coach with no hof QB, they would be the same coach. I think it's a little early to judge Jay, though. ESP with this mess of a team he inherited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtn130 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 If gruden becomes a .500 career coach with no hof QB, they would be the same coach. I think it's a little early to judge Jay, though. ESP with this mess of a team he inherited.  It's a little early to judge Gruden because he's a first year coach who can improve with experience if he's an intelligent human being. The merits of his work this year can certainly be judged, and he was mediocre at best. This is the kind of nonsense that makes you question Gruden's ability to improve as a coach:  http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14120/jay-gruden-measures-qb-play-by-wins-losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Whatever team Mike Shanahan is the head coach for is killing this thing. I'm so old skool I remember when our franchise wasn't a laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 If Shanahan gets hired again, he'll be the most overrated active coach in the league. He's won exactly one playoff game without a HOF QB. I hope he does get another coaching gig, just so he gets exposed again. When you think about it almost all  teams left in the playoffs have HOF QBs and the kid in Seattle looks real good too. Guess you need a great QB to win which MS never had here. No making excuses for him as he made more mistakes than good decisions IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 When you think about it almost all  teams left in the playoffs have HOF QBs and the kid in Seattle looks real good too. Guess you need a great QB to win which MS never had here. No making excuses for him as he made more mistakes than good decisions IMO.  Undoubtedly it's a QB-driven league now and a team needs a top-10 QB to be a serious contender these days (most of the time, though occasionally strong teams will carry an average QB, like the championship Bucs and 2000 Ravens). That being said, it's also a golden age for QBs right now, and it takes a great coach to maximize the talents of the rest of the team. Not every coach can do that. If someone like Belichek had P. Manning all those years, Manning would probably have more than one SB ring.  As for Shanahan, if he never had a great QB here, that's on him. He controlled the roster (unless you believed the revisionist history coming out now that Snyder forced all those bad moves on him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Sorry hangman. I have to ask. How did Mike get screwed? 1) Bloated contracts care of Vinny for players who couldn't / wouldn't play and the CAP implications / penalty taken trying to off load- THIS RIGHT HERE wasted 2 of his 4 years..had to settle on Grossman and Beck because of $$ 2) Lost Draft Pics either Traded or WASTED on the likes of Fred Davis and Malcom Kelly and Kevin Barnes (look @ 2009 Draft vs 2011). ROSTER SUCKED from the get go...too many holes to fill - THIS is what he messed up...too much for ANYONE to fix quickly 3) Fanboy adopts RGIII and family usurping authority and dividing the team 4) All in for Week 1 Pressure (FO and FANS). MS *should* have started Cousins AT LEAST 5) All the BS after that with Mike & Kyle dealing with Fanboy's corruption of RGIII and the impact on the locker room 6) MS TOLD FANBOY..Don't HIRE me if you are NOT willing to wait 5 years 7) He screwed up with Haz and the 3-4. I'll give you that  Just to name the TOP Screwdrivers...  And IF YOU can't accept that...You can't be persuaded either. Just HOW long will it take Gruden (and HE was left with a better roster and CAP space than Mike Had 2010!)  You seem to totally disallow what Vinny/Dan had done compounded by Zorn's ameturish leadership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Shanny could not win a playoff game WITH Elway until he got Terrell Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Actually, I agree that the cap penalty hurt Mike. No question. But he had complete control. Many of the moves he made were either questionable or poor. (We really need to compile a list of these moves to remind us- jamal Brown, McNabb, Josh Morgan, etc. ) To say Mike got screwed, I'd have to ignore his failings in Denver post-elway, which bears similarities to his failings here. You blame Dan, when Dan gave Mike the keys to the team. Mike ran it into a wall, just like he did in Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Depends on where he winds up. Â One thing I'd bet the teams offense will improve and defense and special teams will slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hangman, to repeat some numbers, Shanny is 123-121 as a HC without elway (who got to 3 super bowls without him). His playoff record is 1-6 since elway retired. His personnel decisions are spotty, and he has never found a competent QB in the 14 years since elway retired despite being in control of personnel. His 4 years here wasn't an anomaly. Its who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtn130 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hangman, to repeat some numbers, Shanny is 123-121 as a HC without elway (who got to 3 super bowls without him). His playoff record is 1-6 since elway retired. His personnel decisions are spotty, and he has never found a competent QB in the 14 years since elway retired despite being in control of personnel. His 4 years here wasn't an anomaly. Its who he is.  You acknowledge that he's 123-121 without Elway, yet you assert that his four years in DC are "who he is" -- pretty sure his overall record would indicate that his time in DC isn't indicative of who he is at all.  He's at least an average coach with or without Elway. He did terribly here when looking at his record. I think it's pretty fair to say working with this organization is a huge impediment, and he was not at all dealt a good hand here.  And I know this is difficult for a lot of people to understand in sports, but maybe, just MAYBE, he got kind of unlucky? CRAZY I know, but sometimes people just get unlucky. Everyone likes to pan the move to trade for Jammal Brown, but what exactly was theoretically incorrect about that move? He traded for a guy who he believed could be healthy and play at a high level. It didn't work out. That doesn't mean it was a TERRIBLE move that indicated Shanahan is a bad coach. Sometimes people get unlucky and they get burned when they take a calculated risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 We'll disagree on the Jamaal Brown move. I wasn't being literal with regards to his record here, I'm saying the lack of winning is par for the course. Shanahans 4 years with elway make up just 20 percent of his HC years, yet some seem to want to pretend it should represent his career. I tend to think the 16 years outside of that time is a better indicator of the kind if coach he is. And, no, I don't think luck or lack thereof explains 1 playoff win and a .500 record over 16 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtn130 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 And, no, I don't think luck or lack thereof explains 1 playoff win and a .500 record over 16 years. Â I was talking about his four years in DC, which deviate pretty dramatically from the rest of his career. And I wasn't attributing everything to variance -- I'm pointing out that looking singularly at W-L record isn't a very good way of evaluating a coach even over the course of four years. Of course Shanahan had to be fired, but I think he did some good things in DC along with the bad, but all of that is ignored and all failures were placed squarely on Shanahan. Â But my only point was that Shanahan is a way better coach than Gruden. If you want to argue Shanahan is a mediocre coach, that's fine. I can get on board with that. But I simply cannot agree with anyone who chooses to believe that Gruden is somehow an upgrade over Shanahan. This year was a disaster and a complete failure in nearly every way. Gruden did more dumb things in one year than Shanahan did in all four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 115-109, 1-6 playoff record in 14 seasons since elway. Make of that what you will.  So... not great. But way better than the Redskins. This fanbase is so awful -- we have double digit losses almost every season, decade in and decade out, but we bash any coach who hasn't won a super bowl in the last three years.  Oh, if you're going to subtract his record with Elway, how about I subtract his record with Snyder/Allen too. We're left with: 91-69, 1-5 playoffs, in ten seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 So... not great. But way better than the Redskins. This fanbase is so awful -- we have double digit losses almost every season, decade in and decade out, but we bash any coach who hasn't won a super bowl in the last three years. You're point is, that we're worse than .500 lately, so .500 should be acceptable?And mike hasn't won a super bowl in 14 years, not 3 or 4. And did so with a guy who had been to 3 without him. 1-5 is a good playoff record? The redskins as a team have won more playoff games the last 14 years than Mike shanahan has as a coach. Let that sink in. Oh, if you're going to subtract his record with Elway, how about I subtract his record with Snyder/Allen too. We're left with: 91-69, 1-5 playoffs, in ten seasons.You're not counting Oakland, either?What are you even arguing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsforlife101 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Just my opinion I don't think Mike will be coaching next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Actually, I agree that the cap penalty hurt Mike. No question. But he had complete control. Many of the moves he made were either questionable or poor. (We really need to compile a list of these moves to remind us- jamal Brown, McNabb, Josh Morgan, etc. ) To say Mike got screwed, I'd have to ignore his failings in Denver post-elway, which bears similarities to his failings here. You blame Dan, when Dan gave Mike the keys to the team. Mike ran it into a wall, just like he did in Denver. Complete control over NOTHING is still NOTHING. Coaching winning teams is cyclical..not all org's = Patriots. Good teams go to bad. Â Why trash a guy because he didn't perform a miracle...the guy has shown allot of class staying above this BS (ya I know you think he leaked to the press ) Â He'll be coaching THIS Year...just look at all the interest...I *hope* it's Chicago...give Cutler a second chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hope he gets the Chicago job so we can go into the Windy City and kick his ass while a Cutler throws 4 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage520 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Jack Pardee comes to mind as well. Â He said SINCE Norv. I read an article from the Bay Area CSN earlier that seemed to indicate SF wants Shanny there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He said SINCE Norv. I read an article from the Bay Area CSN earlier that seemed to indicate SF wants Shanny there. With John Madden in the interview, I think he lands the job there. I just see Madden endorsing Shanahan, big time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonSkins77 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Be interesting to see if he hires Jim Haslett to run his D once more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Young shany wants out of Cleveland! Interesting if he teams up with pops or gets a gig of his own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercuryrising Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Something tells me his options are not as vast as his legion of media leaks and snitches are trying to portray, if he is slinking back to Oakland with hat in hand for a job, given the personal history there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well, Shanahan had complete control of personnel decisions as well as being the head coach & he finished dead last in 3 of his 4 seasons. I'm sure that the salary cap penalties hindered his ability to fix the roster to his liking, I give him that much credit. Totally agree bruv. Shannys played a big part in his demise here. Now how much Snyder expediated it we'll never really know. Dan played a part of the fiasco but for once it wasn't all on him. For more proof look at Mike's post Elway tenure with Den. Pretty much the same problems he had in Was. Especially poor defensive units and sporadic (at best) playoff appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanoker Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Shanny and Son show probably would be a good fit in Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.