Rufus T Firefly Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Sorry, but he was flat out asked if he would recommend keeping Haslett. He could easily have said any number of things that did not confirm. He confirmed. He said he would keep Haslett. He didn't have to do that, but he did. He's either trying to get fired, or worse, he actually believes Haslett is a good coach. His inability to control the message is disturbing. You're right, but for some reason people are completely invested in believing Haslett's being forced on Gruden so you're not going to get anywhere. At this point, Gruden could take hostages and threaten to kill all of them unless Haslett is given a new contract and people will insist it doesn't really mean he wane him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glongest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 If the Redskins were serious about changing the culture of this team last year, they should have fired every coach prior to hiring Jay, pure and simple. There is no coach worthy of being kept on a 3 and 13 team. But here we are. There is no coach on defense that should be retained or promoted. The record and the play speaks for itself. It also sends a message to the players as well, there is no sacred cow in this organization. We did not play well, we have not played well in recent history and we are starting over period. And then there are those who say but oh they had so many injuries. Really? What were the big injuries on defense that contributed to the defense being really bad? I would argue maybe Hall was the biggest and I say that because after his injury things really went south. But to offset that, Breeland played very well so don't give that one a lot of thought. Orakpo. Okay I am sure that had some impact but really he is not a dominant player. People like to think he is because he was a high draft pick but he's not. And then there are those that say well he doesn't get the numbers but Kerrigan would suffer. Really, at 13.5 sacks this year I think he disproved that theory. Hatcher, only missed two games and really was not causing that much disruption. Cofield and Bowen, again injured but neither one of them is dominant and did not miss the majority of the season. Merriweather for a few games. Again he is just not that good. So in my opinion those who say cant blame the coaches because they had so many injuries, that is just a cop out. I think they probably did not have any more injuries than most teams have in a season and none of these players that were out for extended periods of time, other than Hall, were making big impacts anyway in my opinion. I would agree for sure talent is an issue but obviously the scheme with this group was not working and much of that starts with coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TouchdownSkin Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 All of you all worrying about Haslett need to follow the ES alumni. You need to follow these guys on twitter. I will post this again for those who might have missed it from earlier: JsteelzHttr24-7@JsteelznSkins 19h19 hours agoSay goodbye to Haz. Gruden won't fire him because of ties of past . Feels it would tough to do but bruce will fire Haz.Had 1 yr left on deal 0 replies 18 retweets 9 favorites That right there is why Gruden should not be a HC. Seriously, he can't fire his friend??? GAH! Thanks for posting that as I don't do twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Sorry, but he was flat out asked if he would recommend keeping Haslett. He could easily have said any number of things that did not confirm. He confirmed. He said he would keep Haslett. He didn't have to do that, but he did. He's either trying to get fired, or worse, he actually believes Haslett is a good coach. His inability to control the message is disturbing. Well, I don't think it's that simple and it's certainly not out of the norm for coaches to vouch for each other, especially ones that have been very close. Saying one thing publicly while leaving open the very likely possibility Haz is gone says plenty enough for me not to simply take what he says at face value. Like I said, if Haslett is retained... I'm with you. Otherwise, I find it difficult to actually believe he really wanted Haz but was forced to part with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Redskins be like, "hey Jay, could we have a minute with you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The press conference tomorrow from Bruce Allen should be interesting. The only difference I detect from me and you is we are both angry at Bruce but you don't tie Jay into the anger. I do tie him in. Jay to me is Bruce's boy. Funny Russell was talking today about how the FO was ultimately surprised that Jay's personality was what it was and how they didn't expect the showdown with RG3 -- then Russell goes if you know Jay well, you'd see it coming -- but he said the FO doesn't do their homework in that way. Russell could be wrong but it was interesting to hear. Bruce said on the record that he wanted Jay before the interview was even over. Some suggest that he wanted Jay before the interview even took place. Like Jay or not like Jay, I buy into Bruce, etc not doing his homework. The important thing is to get the guy who is part of the Tampa mafia -- a team player, some one who won't rock the boat with Bruce. Yeah, I think you're spot on there, we both agree for the most part but you tie Gruden into it more than I do. That's the clear difference between me and you. I just find it very difficult to focus on him here because the entire situation was created by Dan and Allen, a situation that any decent FO would not have allowed to erupt in the first place. Just speaking from my own level of expertise on the matter as a business owner (I've honestly had similar situations, not saying this randomly at all). If I fired a manager and hired a new one, told him he could hire and fire the rest of the employees under him as he deems fit, while knowing one of them is a very close friend and has been consistently one of the worst performers under the previous manager for years, what kind of an owner am I? Shouldn't I have been, at the very least, aware enough that it'd put this new manager I just hired in an awkward situation? I should expect that he'd want to give him a chance, so if I had known this employee was just awful for so long while others weren't nearly as bad under the previous management, how can I buy the excuse that it was just previous management at fault? Just frustrates me to no end this situation was even allowed to exist. It's absolutely mind-boggling, and I can't help but focus my anger almost completely on Dan and Allen for it. Gruden was doing what was totally expected of him here, as much as I hate that he wasn't smart enough to automatically smell the bs and say no way to Haz right away, I can't hate him for showing some loyalty knowing how close they've been. He was obviously going to believe Haslett was handcuffed since he has no reason not to trust him and he wasn't here the past 4 years. I know I would've done something very similar in his shoes and anyone saying they wouldn't have is either being dishonest or have cold, cold hearts. As for what happened this year, I just can't help but think what Gruden says publicly about Haslett means absolutely zilch. I think it's simply not indicative of his true feelings on the matter. I think the evidence to believe that is far stronger and historically verifiable, knowing the difference of how all coaches who have criticized players deal with their coaching peers. Also, Gruden wanted Guenther here when he first arrived and it's highly doubtful that he meant it was just for a lateral move, so claiming Gruden is totally tied to the hip on Haslett makes little sense. Furthermore, Gruden isn't an expert on Defense and always planned to allow his D Coordinator to run that side of the show... so it just seems much more likely that he isn't really giving any strong opinions on the matter and is more than willing to default to others on it. I think it's really unfortunate that some posters here try to make this totally black and white and make condescending remarks when any semblance of a nuanced conversation on the matter is attempted. It's either you're saying Gruden had Haslett forced on him or you have to believe Gruden desperately wants him. It's too bad you just "liked" it when one did that just now, changed how I look at these discussions between each other a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_dawg_one Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 lol @ anyone who thought we were getting a good coach in Gruden. So many of us tried to tella ll of you he was only getting this job because of Allen, and Allen knew who he was hiring right away, hence why he kept haslett. Why did we as fans not try to rise up agianst and fight this? Rise up against it...What can fans do? Storm Redskin Park while carrying torches demanding they Release the Haslett beast to our custody?..all we can do is continue to voice our displeasure hopefully it takes root and they fire the Bas**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Rise up against it...What can fans do? Storm Redskin Park while carrying torches demanding they Release the Haslett beast to our custody?..all we can do is continue to voice our displeasure hopefully it takes root and they fire the Bas**** I'm more than ready for torches and pitchforks. But no way would it be Haslett I was after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 lol @ anyone who thought we were getting a good coach in Gruden. So many of us tried to tella ll of you he was only getting this job because of Allen, and Allen knew who he was hiring right away, hence why he kept haslett. Why did we as fans not try to rise up agianst and fight this? yet nothing happening, I'll believe it when I see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooterman Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I've posted previously in support of year two for Jay Gruden. If he indeed believes Haz should be retained then I will rescind that support. I just hope it's just a case of him telling the media one thing but believes in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_dawg_one Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm more than ready for torches and pitchforks. But no way would it be Haslett I was after. Ahh a Snyder man I see..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 What else is Gruden suppose to say when asked about Haslett? Of course he will endorse him and say the right thing up until Haslett is let go. Gruden knows a change needs to happen and that it's a business.Well he certainly didn't hold back this season when talking about his players. If have preferred he said something like "We're waiting for the movers to show up before driving him to the airport. I love the guy but we expected him to have his things boxed up by now, you know. It's unfortunate man. It really is. This is going to take the whole afternoon to get this guy outta here but we'll do what's necessary to improve this football team and get some wins." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 seems pretty obvious. Jay and Jim are friends. Jim probably said a lot of nice things to help get Jay hired. Jay feels like he can't just immediately turn around and stab him in the back and fire him. so the line will be that it was Bruce and Dan's decision. this sucks, because it will just feed into the conventional wisdom of "meddling dan" going against the coach's wishes, when in reality, it's the coach that simply doesn't have the cajones to do what needs to be done here. I fear Allen is too dumb to realize Jay is just saying those things to not stab him in the back. Jay says he wants to keep him so we will. Can I do replay again next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Yeah, I think you're spot on there, we both agree for the most part but you tie Gruden into it more than I do. That's the clear difference between me and you. I just find it very difficult to focus on him here because the entire situation was created by Dan and Allen, a situation that any decent FO would not have allowed to erupt in the first place. Just speaking from my own level of expertise on the matter as a business owner (I've honestly had similar situations, not saying this randomly at all). If I fired a manager and hired a new one, told him he could hire and fire the rest of the employees under him as he deems fit, while knowing one of them is a very close friend and has been consistently one of the worst performers under the previous manager for years, what kind of an owner am I? Shouldn't I have been, at the very least, aware enough that it'd put this new manager I just hired in an awkward situation? I should expect that he'd want to give him a chance, so if I had known this employee was just awful for so long while others weren't nearly as bad under the previous management, how can I buy the excuse that it was just previous management at fault? I am a business owner too, and most of what I do centers on politics so I get the political game well. Bruce (as both UnWise Mike and Thom Loverro pointed out) is setting up layers and layers of cronies who he or his families go back with who owe him from the past or currently for their jobs. You give him more time, he will add to those layers where he'd be difficult to displace because so many people who have Dan's ear will have Bruce's back. By all indications Jay is another one of those people. I don't think Dan is going anywhere so to me Bruce is the big problem. Now arguably Bruce's biggest role as GM are to: 1. bringing in good players. 2 hiring a good head coach. The good players thing so far isn't working out for him. If the head coach doesn't work out for him either. He earns an obvious F. By backing Jay and saying you know what lets have that play out and we might have a gem in him lets see, in my opinion that gives Allen a C. Well, Bruce was hit and miss with personnel but heck kudos Bruce for digging up Jay. Bruce's stamp (not Dan) is all over the Jay hire. So yeah my issue is if targeting the FO is the issue here -- how does backing Jay help that cause? Saying he bombed both on personnel and the head coach, corners Bruce where he has nothing to brag about. It makes Bruce look incompetent. I bet tomorrow Bruce doles out the praise on Jay -- Jay is Bruce's biggest bet and the biggest thing that his reputation rides on, IMO. Edit: and with HEAVY pressure (Fassel, Cerrato) (letter writing campaign?) we might be able to move the needle on Bruce. Bruce I think would be fine as the President and he clearly knows contracts and figures but he IMO is no personnel guy. I don't think Dan moves on a problem unless fans smack him in the face with a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiv Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Why do you even stay? Serious question. I was here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I swear to God, if they keep hazMAT I am calling Redskins Park and venting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Not surprised. Gruden isn't the sharpest crayon in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 If Haslett is back next year, that would just freed up a lot of my Sundays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Do you feel this staff can come back and compete? Gruden: It’s something Bruce (Allen) and myself will have to sit down and talk with. These guys all worked hard and gave it their best. Defensively, I know [Haslett] is getting hammered, but he’s been destroyed with different guys and it’s been tough. You lose a lot of your packages, like when Brian Orakpo is hurt and now Trent Murphy is the starter as opposed to being a third-down guy who does the move-around stuff, so you lose that element of your defense. So many issues.Tracy Porter. DeAngelo Hall. It’s crazy. Barry Cofield for half the year, Chris Neild hurt early.Jason Hatcher dinged up. http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14375/jay-gruden-qa-part-2?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I can understand waiting for a season to make your own determination, even though the fans not only have the emotions to show you that Hazlett is a bad coach, they have statistics and numbers. This man conspired to make you look like an ordinary coach but you want to give him another chance? Dan, Jay and Haz are like all those over paid free agents from years past... Come to DC to have some of that free Redskins money... Dan, you are turning into that slut everybody goes to in order to get a cheap thrill........ Do you feel this staff can come back and compete? Gruden: It’s something Bruce (Allen) and myself will have to sit down and talk with. These guys all worked hard and gave it their best. Defensively, I know [Haslett] is getting hammered, but he’s been destroyed with different guys and it’s been tough. You lose a lot of your packages, like when Brian Orakpo is hurt and now Trent Murphy is the starter as opposed to being a third-down guy who does the move-around stuff, so you lose that element of your defense. So many issues.Tracy Porter. DeAngelo Hall. It’s crazy. Barry Cofield for half the year, Chris Neild hurt early.Jason Hatcher dinged up. http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14375/jay-gruden-qa-part-2?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed If only this was just this year. Dude has stunk up the joint every dog godon year he's been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The good players thing so far isn't working out for him. If the head coach doesn't work out for him either. He earns an obvious F. By backing Jay and saying you know what lets have that play out and we might have a gem in him lets see, in my opinion that gives Allen a C. Well, Bruce was hit and miss with personnel but heck kudos Bruce for digging up Jay. Bruce's stamp (not Dan) is all over the Jay hire. So yeah my issue is if targeting the FO is the issue here -- how does backing Jay help that cause? Saying he bombed both on personnel and the head coach, corners Bruce where he has nothing to brag about. It makes Bruce look incompetent. I bet tomorrow Bruce doles out the praise on Jay -- Jay is Bruce's biggest bet and the biggest thing that his reputation rides on, IMO. Edit: and with HEAVY pressure (Fassel, Cerrato) (letter writing campaign?) we might be able to move the needle on Bruce. Bruce I think would be fine as the President and he clearly knows contracts and figures but he IMO is no personnel guy. I don't think Dan moves on a problem unless fans smack him in the face with a point. Well, the reason I don't see it that way is because Jay made a name for himself absent of Allen and even absent of his brother. He had earned himself a spot at the top of the list for Head Coaches to be in the NFL on his own. Even if one had the opinion that his resumé was lacking there is no argument that others have been given the job of Head Coach with much less success in their past. So, to me, it's a bit like Kyle Shanahan in that, out of all the hires we can criticize because of blind nepotism or past relationships under Mike (like Slowik for instance), that one is a legitimate one based on actual past success. He'd be a good hire no matter who had brought him in. Same went for Jay when he was hired. I don't blame him for taking the job. I don't blame him for being hired by Allen who has ulterior motives with Dan. I don't blame him for the coaching search most likely being a sham. Simply put, Bruce hiring Jay for those negative reasons you provide (as likely as they are) has no bearing on Jay himself or his qualities as a football guy. They're a stain on Allen and only Allen. All I know is that the guy has been pretty damn successful every where he's been and, as usual, suddenly fails when he comes here. Let's even ignore that he's a rookie HC and there's a huge possibility that he can improve. It's just extremely hard for me to believe anymore that it's the guys who are proven and have shown to know what they're doing in the past and NOT this FO and the environment they're placed in. I sincerely believe, at this point in time, that Gruden placed in a better situation would be very successful. He has qualities you look for and the players, by all accounts, like. That still remains true no matter how badly he's handled things at times. I just don't see any coach coming here and handling things well at all. Maybe they do a slightly better job, but the organization itself and the environment they're placed in is so incredibly corrupt it's next to impossible to get it all right, especially your first go at it. In summary, it's easy for me. I look at past success and quality of resumé to judge people within this organization more than anything else. This place is just bad for everyone who comes here so it's hard to simply take what happens here and label someone except in extreme circumstances. It's why I can confidently say Haslett is awful because he's been awful before us and with us. It's why I can confidently say Allen isn't a GM, he's never been a good talent evaluator. And it's why I can't say much about Gruden and would rather give him the benefit of the doubt right now. I'm also of the belief now that coaching is a smaller part of the success of an organization than most think. It's the FO, the scouting department, and the way its structure is geared towards systemic accountability that means way more than any Head Coach can affect. So I guess I just can't bring myself to care enough to "hate" Gruden, you know? Unless he does something so outrageous like retain Haslett, which would be total proof he cares less about winning, lol. So, yeah, there are limits of course, I guess mine is far wider now than most and my main focus is solely on the FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce_Almty Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I suggest a massive protest at the next harvest festival just as Ryszard Siwiec protested the invasion of czechoslovakia at the 1968 harvest festival in Warsaw. I won't be able to participate but I look forward to seeing the results of your sacrifice. I was thinking the same thing. Rys$%& WHO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRIEL1 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Well I guess Rex Ryan is out as our DC. I'm sure he would prefer either the 49er's, or Falcon's head couching job over being a DC for the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Well then he should consider a career change. Jay says we lost Hatcher? So did Dallas. Dallas was supposed to have the worst D, lost their stud for the year, and clearly did just fine. All things equal the talent levels of teams, and injuries, all tends to even out in the end, or over large sample sizes like Hasletts 5 years. Using injuries as an excuse is a cop out, as coaches have a hand in selecting and inking injury prone players. Some may even argue tagging some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce_Almty Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I don't agree with everything the author says but some good thoughts here...ICYMI http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2315086-what-washington-redskins-can-do-this-offseason-to-ensure-a-playoff-push-in-2015 VRIEL1, on 30 Dec 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:Well I guess Rex Ryan is out as our DC. I'm sure he would prefer either the 49er's, or Falcon's head couching job over being a DC for the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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