TSO Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hap posted this in the breaking news forums. Thought I'd help make the front page here more properly proportioned as to what issues should take priority. This article really helps put it all into perspective and it's just a good general source of info: http://davidelfinonsports.com/skins-need-general-manager-personnel-experience/#more-1748 Bruce Allen’s first season in charge in Washington has been a disaster. Dan Snyder was a brash, young NFL owner when he fired Norv Turner on Dec. 4, 2000 less than a year after the coach had guided the Redskins to their first NFC East title in eight seasons. That team had been assembled by general manager Charley Casserly, whom Snyder fired upon taking control of the franchise. Casserly and predecessor Bobby Beathard, the architects of Washington’s three Super Bowl champions from 1982-91, had worked their way up from scouts to the top jobs. However, Snyder really compounded his mistakes 13 months later. Washington’s little big man lured proven coach Marty Schottenheimer to the Redskins a month after he had dismissed Turner. But once Schottenheimer started 0-5 with the first three defeats by an average of 32 points, his prospects for long-term employment for Snyder were doomed. Not even an 8-3 finish with journeyman Tony Banks at quarterback could save Schottenheimer, who was in charge of all football decisions, leaving Snyder seething from not being more involved. click on the link for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I posted this article awhile ago on the Bruce thread but yeah its all on point. It's stating the obvious but when in Danny's tenure have they had a top notch personnel guy running things? Never. They've never even had an average personnel person running the show. And, somehow Danny's shocked the team has been below average. I am not a Jay guy at the moment but if Jay gets let go and Bruce stays that would be a joke. Actually on the Sports Fix today, Chris Russell alluded to AJ Smith having a real shot at the GM title and responsibilities next year. Russell two days ago said its on the table to fire Bruce among other things. Russell has been wrong but will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Actually on the Sports Fix today, Chris Russell alluded to AJ Smith having a real shot at the GM title and responsibilities next year. Russell two days ago said its on the table to fire Bruce among other things. Russell has been wrong but will see. I think that would make sense as far as trying to get help for the guys here rather than starting over this year. Smith is not well liked by all, but it's not because he can't find talent. Bruce can do what he does best, and I really like what he does do well with the former players coming back around and his work with the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Okay So what's going to stop Snyder from meddling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsciambi Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I kind of don't want Bruce gone. I just want him to be the business side of the house. Bring in a personnel type GM for the day to day stuff, and Bruce to negotiate contracts and all of that. But let the GM build the team, including the coaches. None of this hire a coach and then bring a GM in. Or force someone into the organization just because they were here already. It really needs to be a complete reboot. That's not to say the GM can't rehire current staff, but they shouldn't be forced to consider them just because they already have a connection here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 THIS is the drum we should all be beating. We shouldn't be asking for Gruden to be fired. Or for Griffin to be cut loose. The only way to fix this mess is to hire a legitimate, NFL caliber GM and let him do whatever is necessary. Time to blow this team up. We've never done that yet. All we've done is fill potholes only to discover more potholes. This team needs to be razed to the ground. We have a lot of assets that we can deal out for picks or young linemen. DJax, Garcon, Morris, Reed, etc. Keep the young defensive talent. But just really start over from the bottom. With lowered expectations the fans would be patient. We know the difference between a rebuild and a patch job. Do this right for God's sake so my sons can finally witness a winning program for a change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 In other news, the sky is blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsphan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 We should just accept our fate. It's easier that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 That's crazy talk It's never about personnel with redskins fans and ownership It's always about coaching If we fire Gruden we will be fine. Lets hire art Briles, RGIII will be awesome again. Championship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 But, but, if they fire Allen, who's going to run Harvest Fest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I thought we were on the right track when this offseason started, primarily because I thought Bruce was going to let his scouts be the pseudo GM and handle the football aspect of the general manager position. I was so excited for football guys to be in charge. The day that truly happens, with a solid general manager, I will be extremely happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEBSKINS Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Who gives a **** about a real GM or responsible ownership? We have an outstanding Harvest Fest. HARVEST FEST>winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 I thought we were on the right track when this offseason started, primarily because I thought Bruce was going to let his scouts be the pseudo GM and handle the football aspect of the general manager position. I was so excited for football guys to be in charge. The day that truly happens, with a solid general manager, I will be extremely happy. He blatantly lied about that. It's why Brown left. It's amazing how little traction that got within the media, but I believe Brown directly implied something along those lines when he got hired by the Browns. I just can't find the quote anywhere and it's driving me crazy. I know I read it somewhere at the time and was livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Daniel Foster @DandamanFos Follow @john_keim #jkmailbag. It's been 16 yrs - what are chances Snyder realizes he needs a *qualified* football man to run the team - & let him? 5:00 PM - 11 Dec 2014 Keim: We'll find out at the end of the season because we'll see what moves he makes or doesn't make. I do think he has a stronger idea of other people's opinions from what I understand - and has been told some things. Not sure if it will matter. But I think it's more on the table than it was in the past because you can't look at this situation - five double digit loss seasons in the last six - and not consider every possible answer. It will be interesting to watch this offseason. http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13821/redskins-mailbag-part-1-54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 ^^ I guess that's a little bit good news. I've come to a point where I just have trouble believing he really does care. I used to be one of the first to his defense and would roll my eyes anytime someone attacked him. I totally bought into the "he's as big a fan as any of us" and the "he's willing to do anything for a winner" lines of thought. Now I mostly believe that he's a master marketer who has fooled us into accepting a cycle of big moves to keep us coming back. It was the "shiny new free agents" at first, but when that wore out, it became exclusively the "shiny new Head Coach". I'm willing, however, to accept being wrong about that. I hope I am. I don't know him personally well enough to be 100% sure of it, but so much points to that. With that in mind, there's some potential for us to use that to our advantage. Dan has seemed to cave to what we want in the past and I think ES is a valuable tool since it's a good sample of Redskin fan thoughts, but the problem is/was our focus has mainly been on individual coaches and players. So, in a sense, we've directly contributed to the failures of this franchise and it looks like we're continuing it now. I'm going to try and make a point to post about nothing else anymore. I don't want to be a part of the problem, but rather a part of the solution. As far as I'm concerned, every post not dealing with this issue directly is a post that contributes to the ongoing problems. It's extreme, but we need extreme measures. Imagine this entire board filled with threads and posts about GMs, candidates for the position, strategies employed by the best ones in the game now, critiques of our FO structure, etc... with little else. Discussions about Gruden and Robert are just side bars that get lost in the shuffle. Only then do I think we have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Call John Schneider and see if Scot McCloughan has his demons removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 He blatantly lied about that. It's why Brown left. It's amazing how little traction that got within the media, but I believe Brown directly implied something along those lines when he got hired by the Browns. I just can't find the quote anywhere and it's driving me crazy. I know I read it somewhere at the time and was livid. Here are some quotes from Brown. "I was in a situation where my contract was up with Washington," Brown said during a phone interview from Cleveland's draft room, "and after the draft (last week), everyone was a free agent. (The Redskins) couldn't block me. We'd had some contract discussions dating back to January but just couldn't get anything done. (The Browns) offered what the Redskins didn't." "My title now reflects what I do more than it did in Washington." http://www.dailypress.com/dp-spt-teel-column-morocco-brown-cleveland-20140525-column.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 ^^ thanks, the last quote is probably what I remember. It's very telling when you think about it. Factor in the talk that Haslett "won" over the scouts about franchising Orakpo and there ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Call John Schneider and see if Scot McCloughan has his demons removed. Schneider would probably laugh and hang up. No way in hell that dude is leaving Seattle anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Schneider would probably laugh and hang up. No way in hell that dude is leaving Seattle anytime soon I don't want Schneider. I want his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 ^^ thanks, the last quote is probably what I remember. It's very telling when you think about it. Factor in the talk that Haslett "won" over the scouts about franchising Orakpo and there ya go. And bringing in guys like Hatcher and Clark. This team was 3-13, signed a ton of old vets just to get back to 3-13. Way to go Brucie boy, now GTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 What mKes Bruce Allen a cap/contracts expert anyway? Being GM after Vinny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 What mKes Bruce Allen a cap/contracts expert anyway? Being GM after Vinny? He was actually good at that. In Oakland Al Davis wanted to sign up all the FA's he could and Allen did the contracts up for it which was around the time they could've been in 2 SB's in a row if not for the tuck rule. Allen won Executive of the Year for that, he wasn't the GM and has no experience being one as far as the personnel are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 And bringing in guys like Hatcher and Clark. This team was 3-13, signed a ton of old vets just to get back to 3-13. Way to go Brucie boy, now GTFO. I know and I was actually super excited when we signed Hatcher. An awful move in hindsight, and not because he's a bad player... just, unnecessary and expensive. :/ But I did have posts openly questioning why Clark wasn't getting more demand from any other teams before we signed him when everyone was flipping out as to why he wasn't signed yet. So there's that, I wasn't a total fool, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 He was actually good at that. In Oakland Al Davis wanted to sign up all the FA's he could and Allen did the contracts up for it which was around the time they could've been in 2 SB's in a row if not for the tuck rule. Allen won Executive of the Year for that, he wasn't the GM and has no experience being one as far as the personnel are concerned. That's good info but I'm not seeing it in the contracts he's given out and the way deals have been backloaded and pushing money into future years since he has been here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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