Elfin Sports - Skins Need General Manager with Personnel Experience

[ANONYMOUS SOURCE.]

Before Danny goes for another GM the first thing he needs to do is establish a damn football identity. What the hell are the Skins? they have no idea. Bruce kept throwing out "True Redskin" and "Redskin Football" but what exactly is that? Smash mouth? blue collar ? Tempo and precision? Nope on all counts, just a bunch of individuals who can't get on the same page when it counts. Establish an identity, hire a GM capable of implementing it and getting those type of players ,and let him get a Coach who personifies that identity. Of course if the identity Dan is going for is unprofessional loser then hes succeeded on both counts.

[Skinsinparadise]

Before Danny goes for another GM the first thing he needs to do is establish a damn football identity. What the hell are the Skins? they have no idea. Bruce kept throwing out "True Redskin" and "Redskin Football" but what exactly is that? Smash mouth? blue collar ? Tempo and precision? Nope on all counts, just a bunch of individuals who can't get on the same page when it counts. Establish an identity, hire a GM capable of implementing it and getting those type of players ,and let him get a Coach who personifies that identity. Of course if the identity Dan is going for is unprofessional loser then hes succeeded on both counts.

 

That IMO that is the job of the GM working with the head coach.  I.e., Gibbs clearly wanted a big o line in the 80s, Beathard went out and got the guys.

 

I'll take for example AJ Smith if he's our best shot at getting a true GM versus the alternative Bruce -- I'll take it.  But it still speaks to the nepotism that exists in that building.  Smith and Bruce are friends.    The Gruden family and the Allen family are friends.  It's the good old boy network and Danny seems to dig that.  

 

For a change, just hire a young, hungry GM who is an outsider.  This FO is all about insiders.  I recall reading why Gregg Williams didn't get the HC job -- he and Vinny and Dan watched the playoffs together and according to Vinny they all didn't click that smoothly as pals. 

 

Dan seems to want a pal.   Reading about him and Gibbs they did click that way, Gibbs is one of Danny's biggest defenders to this day and if you read about their relationship, they were close.  Dan and Vinny obviously were close.   Dan and Bruce are apparently close.     Dan needs to pick a real personnel guy without caring whether they can buddy up together in Colorado during ski season.

 

\. 

[Bishop Hammer]

I kind of don't want Bruce gone. I just want him to be the business side of the house. Bring in a personnel type GM for the day to day stuff, and Bruce to negotiate contracts and all of that.

But let the GM build the team, including the coaches. None of this hire a coach and then bring a GM in. Or force someone into the organization just because they were here already. It really needs to be a complete reboot. That's not to say the GM can't rehire current staff, but they shouldn't be forced to consider them just because they already have a connection here.

Same here. Bruce should handle the money aspect Smith should handle player acquisition.

[SkinsFTW]

 

Dan seems to want a pal.   Reading about him and Gibbs they did click that way, Gibbs is one of Danny's biggest defenders to this day and if you read about their relationship, they were close.  Dan and Vinny obviously were close.   Dan and Bruce are apparently close.     Dan needs to pick a real personnel guy without caring whether they can buddy up together in Colorado during ski season.

 

Gibbs said this about Snyder while he was still coaching: "“We talk a lot,” Gibbs says. “We are back and forth all the time. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

[Skinsinparadise]

Gibbs said this about Snyder while he was still coaching: "“We talk a lot,” Gibbs says. “We are back and forth all the time. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

 

I know.  I love Gibbs the coach but the dude wasn't a GM.  And Danny liked him am sure partly because Gibbs would talk to him all the time -- he, Vinny and Danny were close.  That came out multiple times.  To this day, when Vinny talks about the Redskins the time he seems to highlight was working with Gibbs. 

 

I do genuinely believe Dan wants to win.  But I think he's deluded himself into thinking that having personal fun with the GM is all part of the process.   So he wants a guy who he's cozy with.  In my opinion, that's the heart of the problem.

[SkinsFTW]

Yep, thats what I meant by Gibbs saying that. Here it is 10 years later and this team is still a cluster**** because Snyder actually thinks that he's doing everything the right way.

 

The last time the Redskins were as bad as 6-26 over 2 seasons was in the late 50's early 60's.

[ThomasRoane]

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

I don't think you do get it.  Because you and your fellow RG III idol worshipers can't seem to get it thru your heads.  It's not about Gruden or Griffin.  But as long as fans like you continue to remain gullible then Dan Snyder will continue with his bait and switch strategy by giving you a shiny new coach every couple of years. 

 

In case you didn't get the message see one each post by Zoony.

 

That's crazy talk

It's never about personnel with redskins fans and ownership It's always about coaching

If we fire Gruden we will be fine. Lets hire art Briles, RGIII will be awesome again. Championship!

 

 

But you, darrellgreenie and the rest of the fire and pitchfork mob keep chasing after coaches.  See how that works out for you a couple years from now. 

[ThomasRoane]

I know and I was actually super excited when we signed Hatcher. An awful move in hindsight, and not because he's a bad player... just, unnecessary and expensive. :/

But I did have posts openly questioning why Clark wasn't getting more demand from any other teams before we signed him when everyone was flipping out as to why he wasn't signed yet. So there's that, I wasn't a total fool, lol.

 

That's the crux of the issue with the Redskins.  Dan is always thinking that the team is only a couple of players or a good coach away from contending.  So the team never really builds for the future.  It's ALWAYS about today. I remember years ago someone posting how the Beathard - Gibbs dynamic worked so well because Bobby would save Gibbs from himself.  Since Casserly was fired, Dan has always let the coaches have major input on which players stay and which players go.  A coach is always going to be worried about the here and now.  They need to win 'this season.'  A good GM will save a coach from himself.

 

A Good GM would have stopped the Redskins from...

 

Trading valuable picks to Philly for a broken down, overweight McNabb

Acquiring a nice guy but bad QB in Beck

mortgaging their future on a fragile (physically and mentally) QB when there were so many other obvious holes to fill. 

Overpaying for Hatcher who cannot single handedly lift the level of play for the defense

Siding with the coach to dump 11 mil to a Rak who has been injured 3 times now in his short career and one who has never been a JJ Watt type franchise pass rusher; in fact he's not even top 3 on the team in that department if you look at production.

From bringing in a slow Safety with one foot in ESPN studio and one on the team

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think you do get it.  Because you and your fellow RG III idol worshipers can't seem to get it thru your heads.  It's not about Gruden or Griffin.  But as long as fans like you continue to remain gullible then Dan Snyder will continue with his bait and switch strategy by giving you a shiny new coach every couple of years. 

 

In case you didn't get the message see one each post by Zoony.

 

 

But you, darrellgreenie and the rest of the fire and pitchfork mob keep chasing after coaches.  See how that works out for you a couple years from now. 

Its funny how people, like you, resort to labels/insults in absence of a cogent argument. Heck, you don't even have my position on whether or not to fire Gruden right.

 

Its is old news this organization needs a GM. And you are right that this current mess isn't about Gruden vs Griffin.

But the want of a GM doesn't excuse poor coaching.

Just because you like Jay does make it right to ignore obvious mistakes. And those mistakes don't necessarily means he should be fired.

 

We still need a GM but to be clear Jay thus far is not doing a good job of coaching this team.

In other news, the sky is blue.

Water is wet.

[bradboyd80]

 

mortgaging their future on a fragile (physically and mentally) QB when there were so many other obvious holes to fill.

 

Good post other than this comment, which is entirely hindsight. When we acquired Griffin, he was far from physically and mentally fragile.  Hell, if it weren't for him putting the team on his back, we don't win the division in '12. He may appear fragile now, but at the time of trade, not so much.

[ThomasRoane]

Good post other than this comment, which is entirely hindsight. When we acquired Griffin, he was far from physically and mentally fragile.  Hell, if it weren't for him putting the team on his back, we don't win the division in '12. He may appear fragile now, but at the time of trade, not so much.

 

Oh, at the time I was for the trade.  But I'm not an NFL GM.  I'm just a fan.  DarrellGreenie is just a fan.  Neither of us really know a damn thing about what's really going on up there.  We  see scattered pieces of the puzzle.  I don't have any right calling for Griffin to be cut loose any more than he has the right to be calling for the coach to be fired.  BOTH DECISIONS should be made by a competent NFL GM.  And, as the OP intended with this post, until we beat that drum and send up that smoke signal (and no others) to Dan we will never get that guy and we will never win. 

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

 

Water is wet.

 

Redskins fans think a new coach will make ALL the difference.

 

See the following:

 

Turner, Norv

Schottenheimer, Marty

Spurrier, Steve

Gibbs, Joe

Zorn, Jim

Shanahan, Mike

Gruden, Jay

Next, Who's

[SkinsHokieFan]

I am all for a new GM deciding the fate of Gruden. I am not a fan of Gruden but if a new GM wants him I think that is cool

[zoony]

I thought we were on the right track when this offseason started, primarily because I thought Bruce was going to let his scouts be the pseudo GM and handle the football aspect of the general manager position.

I was so excited for football guys to be in charge.

The day that truly happens, with a solid general manager, I will be extremely happy.

I said it when it happened, we have the correct structure with the wrong people. Dan hired his buddies.

[FrFan]

Chris Russell alluded to AJ Smith having a real shot at the GM title and responsibilities next year.  

 

I thought Smith didn't want to leave California.

[SkinsFTW]

I said it when it happened, we have the correct structure with the wrong people. Dan hired his buddies.

 

Yet this happened before hiring his new buddies:

 

"Snyder On Jim Zorn: “The general manager needs to prevent the owner from hiring someone who’s not qualified. And that’s why Vinny is no longer here, to be truthful with you. He’s not here because his job was to prevent the owner from hiring a not-qualified coach. Having said that, we went in and had the worst two-year experience I ever dreamed. I apologized, according to my wife, ten thousand times. I apologize openly. I made a big mistake. It’s a terrible experience when you know you got the wrong guy to lead the franchise.”

 

Then he hired Allen saying this:

 

"Bruce Allen is the personification of an NFL winner," Snyder said in a statement released by the team. "Our fans know his heritage; we know his abilities. He is the right person to lead our club." :lol:

 

Then Allen supposedly fires Zorn. Allen supposedly hires Shanahan. Allen then supposedly fires Shanahan 4 years later and hires his buddy Gruden.

 

Now remember, Dan Snyder is SO SO SO SO Sorry 1000 times sorry about his bad decisions that caused the worst 2 year experience for him, the Redskins went 12-20 under Zorn, yet they went 24-40 under Shanny, and now after we lose the next 3 will have gone 6-26 over the past 2 seasons.

 

Dude, this time set yourself on fire.

[drowland]

That's the crux of the issue with the Redskins.  Dan is always thinking that the team is only a couple of players or a good coach away from contending.  So the team never really builds for the future.  It's ALWAYS about today. I remember years ago someone posting how the Beathard - Gibbs dynamic worked so well because Bobby would save Gibbs from himself.  Since Casserly was fired, Dan has always let the coaches have major input on which players stay and which players go.  A coach is always going to be worried about the here and now.  They need to win 'this season.'  A good GM will save a coach from himself.

 

It worked between Gibbs and Bobby until JKC started to side more with Gibbs.  Bobby was dead set against trading a 1st round pick for Gerald Riggs.  Riggs was at the end of career.  Too much to give up for a goal line/short yardage RB.  That's when Beathard left.  Riggs did score a lot of TDs on the '91 team, but trades like that and Desmond Howard trade are what left the Skins with little in terms of young talent when Gibbs retired.  

[SkinsFTW]

It worked between Gibbs and Bobby until JKC started to side more with Gibbs.  Bobby was dead set against trading a 1st round pick for Gerald Riggs.  Riggs was at the end of career.  Too much to give up for a goal line/short yardage RB.  That's when Beathard left.  Riggs did score a lot of TDs on the '91 team, but trades like that and Desmond Howard trade are what left the Skins with little in terms of young talent when Gibbs retired.  

 

Lol then 15 years later Gibbs trades a 2nd rounder I think it was for TJ Duckett, another goal line back who did absolutely nothing for the Redskins and was a FA after his 1 year too. 

Ducketts stats in Washington 38 132 2  

[TSO]

It's a real shame Gibbs didn't make it a point to bring in a legitimate GM as Team President and instead enabled Snyder to think having a side kick at that position with little to no credentials was perfectly fine. Where coaches have equal, if not more, input on personnel than the scouts. Much like is the case now.

Shanahan is at fault for this as well, but Snyder wouldn't have listened to anyone else more than he would've with Gibbs. Gibbs also had the ultimate leverage with Skins fans. If he made it a point publicly Snyder would've been too scared to go against his wishes knowing he'd have a fan revolt the likes no one has ever seen.

[SkinsFTW]

It's a real shame Gibbs didn't make it a point to bring in a legitimate GM as Team President and instead enabled Snyder to think having a side kick at that position with little to no credentials was perfectly fine. Where coaches have equal, if not more, input on personnel than the scouts. Much like is the case now.

Shanahan is at fault for this as well, but Snyder wouldn't have listened to anyone else more than he would've with Gibbs. Gibbs also had the ultimate leverage with Skins fans. If he made it a point publicly Snyder would've been too scared to go against his wishes knowing he'd have a fan revolt the likes no one has ever seen.

 

Its because nobody wants to throw roadblocks up for themselves even when they are needed. Any team would be so much better built for the future but all these guys can't handle losing for a year or 2 first and tbh i think most fans would like to see built that way even if the guys are mostly green 22-24 year olds for a couple years. The problem with that is it doesn't let Snyder win now and risks some money being made today. Snyder can't see past his own nose.

[TSO]

^^ Which is why bringing in a new coach with that same mentality and without the proper FO structure to allow him that mentality would simply be another miscalculation in a ridiculously long series of miscalculations on one Dan Snyder's part. 

 

So, in other words, very likely. Judging by the fan base here who seem to consistently feel the exact same way he does (interesting, right?), that's what's going to happen. Another coach to get ruined while the main issue goes unresolved, yay! 

[Skinsinparadise]

It's a real shame Gibbs didn't make it a point to bring in a legitimate GM as Team President and instead enabled Snyder to think having a side kick at that position with little to no credentials was perfectly fine. Where coaches have equal, if not more, input on personnel than the scouts. Much like is the case now.

Shanahan is at fault for this as well, but Snyder wouldn't have listened to anyone else more than he would've with Gibbs. Gibbs also had the ultimate leverage with Skins fans. If he made it a point publicly Snyder would've been too scared to go against his wishes knowing he'd have a fan revolt the likes no one has ever seen.

 

 

The problem with Gibbs (and again love Gibbs the coach) was he shared some of Vinny's and Dan's worst instincts like the future is now and valuing veterans over the draft.  I recall reading for example about how Gibbs dug TJ Duckett hence the deal for a 3rd and 4th rounder.   Gibbs used to take questions in a show called Redskins lunch and I asked him about it one time -- I told him for a team who got Cooley for a 3rd rounder, how come you guys trade away 3rd and 4th rounders like candy? 

[ThomasRoane]

A savy GM would have saved the coaches from just outright cutting Rambo.  Who had two picks yesterday vs Aaron Rodgers for God's sake!!!  The lack of quality depth on this team is simply astounding.  I doubt that a great staff who made all the right decisions could do any better than 8 - 8.  The drop off between 1's and 2's is laughable.  You see how back ups are man handled when they come into the game.  What's really demoralizing is watching Chris Chester week after week get fork lifted back into the running back's lap and knowing that we can't put in the guys we drafted like Leribus or Long because in practice they must suck worse! 

[Rufus T Firefly]

 

Lol then 15 years later Gibbs trades a 2nd rounder I think it was for TJ Duckett, another goal line back who did absolutely nothing for the Redskins and was a FA after his 1 year too. 

Ducketts stats in Washington 38 132 2  

 

It was a 3rd and 4th. It was a panic move when Portis got hurt.

 

Gibbs was one of the greatest coaches of all time. Mt Rushmore level great. 

 

But he was not a good GM.

[SkinsFTW]

^^ Which is why bringing in a new coach with that same mentality and without the proper FO structure to allow him that mentality would simply be another miscalculation in a ridiculously long series of miscalculations on one Dan Snyder's part. 

 

 

Thats why I've said all along that it's really not Grudens fault for playing QB roulette week to week since as far as Snyder is concerned they've built a team to win now. The idiot doesn't see that it has never worked either but those are still the expectations. Now if we were rebuilding for the future and he pulled RG3 after 2 bad starts then I'd say Gruden is definitely a moron but I'm pretty sure that the window licker expects us to win 10 games this year because this was definitely a "playoff ready team" like that 2009 Zorn roster was lol.

[Mondak]

If they hired AJ Smith after firing Bruce, it might finally break my 40 spell and I could quit this team in peace.  I live in San Diego.  AJ Smith is the worst GM.  He would publicly rub contract negotiations in players faces afterwards saying how he kicked their ass at the table etc. 

 

What a turd.  Had no idea how to handle people.  When you buy a car, the dealer always makes it like you kicked their ass and got this insane deal.  You walk away happy.  This guy has people who just got paid millions of dollars pissed off and feeling like they got ripped off. Nice work.