A Big Reason We're 1-3? Alfred Morris Isn't Getting The Ball

[PlayAction]

We have a QB with half a season of experience under his belt.  Opposing teams are committing their defense to stopping the run and forcing the inexperienced QB to beat them with the pass.  Running the ball against 8 or 9 in the box has a low probability of success.  Teams are also being very disciplined against the stretch zone running play.  If the Skins had the ability to change up the running plays it would help a lot. 

[SkinInsite]

I don't get how a team that have Djax still can't force teams out of 8 men fronts

[Warhead36]

When you're barely getting anything from the run, why keep running more? You can't just throw plays away.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[TheItalianStallion]

We have a QB with half a season of experience under his belt.  Opposing teams are committing their defense to stopping the run and forcing the inexperienced QB to beat them with the pass.  Running the ball against 8 or 9 in the box has a low probability of success.  Teams are also being very disciplined against the stretch zone running play.  If the Skins had the ability to change up the running plays it would help a lot.

This. Until Cousins starts beating the blitz/loaded boxes consistently, the running lanes won't be there. In the first few weeks of 2008 Portis didn't have a lot of success, but Campbell gashed NO, ARI, & DAL through the air (with some impressive plays under heavy pressure @DAL), and then Portis ripped off a string of 100+ yard games, starting with the 2nd half @DAL (he didn't do much in the first half).

[JoeWolf990]

I don't get how a team that have Djax still can't force teams out of 8 men fronts

because Cousins isnt scaring anyone.

[darrelgreenie]

For me there are a lot of rhetoric and platitudes being thrown around concerning our running game.

 

Sure, its true that its harder to run against 8 man box.

BUT TEAMS RUN AGAINST THEN ALL THE TIME.

If all it takes for a an offense not to run is to show them an 8-man box then offenses would almost never run because that's all defenses would do.

 

Robert/Read-option was the reason for Alfred success.

This running game is largely unchanged from the previous regime.

Mike Shanahan's tried and true ZBS has worked for years and this OL is either as good or better then the previous OLs.

The running game has been productive with McNabb, Rex, Beck and Griffin and a vagabond group of backs.

Now with Alfred Morris suddenly it doesn't work? I don't buy for a second.

No, this falls on the coaches and its fixable.

You want the running game to improve? Commit to it. Be more diverse in the running game.

If the backside contain is crashing down then boot Cousins or run zone read with Cousins, he's athletic enough at least as much as Dalton/Foles.

How many times have we used toss/pitch?

How often in DY on the field?

How many times do we call back to back runs? (and how often have back to back runs failed to create a 3rd and favorable?)

etc...etc...

 

 

If it takes 28 whacks to chop down a tree don't take 15 swings and look-up and say whelp this axe isn't working.

[Wyndorf25]

FWIW I don't think the overall lack of carries for Morris is the culprit IMO as much as it is the lack of quality execution by the O-line on 1st and 2nd downs when the Redskins try to run. Morris simply has no where to go, no gap to cut up through. I love Morris and his hard-nosed running style but he (like nearly all RBs...except Barry Sanders) needs a crease to run through and right now he is rarely getting that. Granted the last couple games have been against 2 of the best run-defenses in the NFL.

[SWFLSkins]

I don't get how a team that have Djax still can't force teams out of 8 men fronts

 

Audible, show run heavy and audible out when you get the front you want. It is called taking what the D gives you, but no, the Skins always try and beat it as if they are good enough and can smug their way to success. 

Does everyone realize that this awful back Morris is sitting at no. 9 currently, how godawful is that. 

[Newera]

I think with Kirk, the passing games is more the teams strength and not the running game.  Therefore, a more versatile back would probably be the better fit for Jay's system. (Arian Foster style).  A back that can both run and catch out of the back field.  Almo can't catch.  Example, his drop on the first play of the game.  Wide open.  Did the same thing last year against Dallas.  

 

I think it's time to give Silas some carries.  Quicker and faster than Alfred.  Nifty feet.  More explosive from a stop.  Not as powerful.  He's a different kind of back.  A better fit for Jay's offense.  Run more traps, draws.  Quick hitters.  I think he will really surprise.

 

Look, the coaches job is to figure it out.  Play to your strengths.  Dallas has figured out they have a dominant offensive line.  People laughed when they took Fredrick a couple years ago in the first round.  Came back this year and resisted the Johnny Football temptation and took the best guard in the draft in Zack Martin.  Now it's showing.  Their offensive line is stout.  Jerrah been smart the last two years.

 

Dallas has found a formula. (Coaches figuring it out).   Take the ball out of romos hand put it in Murray's and the line and Tony is more effective.   It's taken them a couple years to figure it out.  Again, coaching. 

 

Our line is not the Dallas line.  Far from it.   So we have to scheme different.   We have talented receivers.  We need a more multi-talented back along with Kirk and our receivers.   I think Silas.  Our offense moves the best when we put Helu and go to the pass.   Redd is a more over all talented back and will probably be more effective on first and second down.  Give  him a shot.  Can't hurt.

 

Kirk flaming out.  Well that is a different story.  Very concerning.  But the fact of the matter, this teams moves the ball better through the air then on the ground right now.  Kirk is third in the league in yards per game.  One yard from second.  Brees is in front of him.   We need to pass to set up the run.  Then start drafting down linemen on both sides of the ball.

 

On the other hand, with Griff I think Alfred is more effective because defenses always have to account for Robert running.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

For me there are a lot of rhetoric and platitudes being thrown around concerning our running game.

Sure, its true that its harder to run against 8 man box.

BUT TEAMS RUN AGAINST THEN ALL THE TIME.

If all it takes for a an offense not to run is to show them an 8-man box then offenses would almost never run because that's all defenses would do.

Robert/Read-option was the reason for Alfred success.

This running game is largely unchanged from the previous regime.

Mike Shanahan's tried and true ZBS has worked for years and this OL is either as good or better then the previous OLs.

The running game has been productive with McNabb, Rex, Beck and Griffin and a vagabond group of backs.

Now with Alfred Morris suddenly it doesn't work? I don't buy for a second.

No, this falls on the coaches and its fixable.

You want the running game to improve? Commit to it. Be more diverse in the running game.

If the backside contain is crashing down then boot Cousins or run zone read with Cousins, he's athletic enough at least as much as Dalton/Foles.

How many times have we used toss/pitch?

How often in DY on the field?

How many times do we call back to back runs? (and how often have back to back runs failed to create a 3rd and favorable?)

etc...etc...

If it takes 28 whacks to chop down a tree don't take 15 swings and look-up and say whelp this axe isn't working.

If you can't convert 3rd down, you can't get enough running plays.

Period.

To use your analogy, if it takes 28 whacks, they get to 15, and the sun goes down and they have to go inside.

They're not getting enough yards when they run, then they aren't picking up 3rd downs.

And it's not just mindset and coaching. It's blocking as well.

And as much as you like to criticize Kyle for abandoning the run, Cleveland is the #3 ranked rushing offense. Part of the Skins problem might be Kyle and Mike could coach this better than just Foerster, McVay and Gruden.

Which is why I'm done with trying and banging our heads on the wall. Screw it. Throw the ball first, run second. Use all the weapons you've got to stretch the field.

Until they can prove they can convert 3rd downs, they've got to be more aggressive on 1st and second.

[skins island connection]

 To my FF team, seeing Morris plug away and see the team get down to the red zone, then insert Helu for the score, frustrates me to no end.

Morris is a professional, I've never heard a peep out of him of any displeasure, but if it were me doing all the work and seeing my back-up getting goal line opportunities, I'd be pissed !

 

But the few times I've seen Morris in the backfield when they're inside the 5, they're SHOWING run; 1 WR dbl TE jumbo pkg, basically telling the defense 'hey, we're gonna run the ball, ya might wanna prep for it'.

 

Why not utilize a single back with either a 3 or 4 WR set, spread the defense out, and it would be much easier for ANYONE, Morris especially, to score!  I love Gibbs, but in his 2nd stint, that drove me crazy to see him calling that, which defenses seemed to stop more times than not, almost as if he was flashing back to th' Hogs days where it was automatic.

[brandymac27]

Maybe what I'm going to say reeks of football ignorance, but i just can't in good faith lay blame on Morris. He tries so damn hard, a true workhorse, and you NEVER hear him complain about ****, despite the fact he tries just as hard, if not harder, than guys who are being paid **** tons more than him and don't necessarily deserve the money.

Look at what he's done in the past. If anything, you blame coaching, not Morris, because we know what he's capable of AND how hard he works.

I refuse to let anyone, be it on ES or elsewhere, diminish the role and importance he plays on this team.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Maybe what I'm going to say reeks of football ignorance, but i just can't in good faith lay blame on Morris. He tries so damn hard, a true workhorse, and you NEVER hear him complain about ****, despite the fact he tries just as hard, if not harder, than guys who are being paid **** tons more than him and don't necessarily deserve the money.

Look at what he's done in the past. If anything, you blame coaching, not Morris, because we know what he's capable of AND how hard he works.

I refuse to let anyone, be it on ES or elsewhere, diminish the role and importance he plays on this team.

definitely not blaming morris at all. i like the work he puts in and i think he is amazing. i think we are all just confused about how the running game just cant get going so far this season, with the exception of the jags game. i have faith that he'll get back into a groove and put up TDs again.

[Newera]

The fact of the matter, our coaches ain't gettin it done.   When I heard Connor Barwin of the Eagles say, "We noticed Eli was getting the ball out fast, so we needed to jam the receivers and throw their timing off."   It worked.

 

Meanwhile.  Haz has our receivers playing eight yards off, because they young.  That worked, right.   

 

Then when a miked Rak is talking like everything is a shock.  Well, where's the coaching. Like they weren't prepared.

 

Do you know how Buddy Ryan started the 43 defense?  The Bears sucked.  So he said he was going to start playing goal line defense throughout the game.  What the heck.  Feast or Famine.  Slowly he started getting athletes one by one.  Then it became dominant.  He went counter intuitive.  Again, coaching.

 

Allen was lazy in keeping Haslet.  I was shocked.  And Gruden was a knee jerk hire because of comfort.  It's showing.  Haz was the one vouching for Rak.  

 

Dan seems scared to let go and let real real football people run this organization.   The one time he did.  Marty.  Had Schneider as well.  The GM for Seahawks.  Let him go.  Marty was on the verge of turning this organization around after a terrible start.  Then Dan let his narcissisim rule.

 

Dan will probably need to cleans house sans Gruden.

 

Back on topic.

 

How many third and ones has this team failed to convert on.   It's crazy.  We are a passing team first.  I know its a catch because Kirk is such a pick machine.  What's amazing to me is that Kirk has only been sacked seven times.  I'm like really.   Wow.  Sometimes I actually think he plays too fast and predetermines where he's going with the ball.  DB's are jumping him.  We need more stop and go routes.  Pump an go's.

 

It's frustrating when you see Lich blown back.  Chester has been below average.  And of course, Tylar.  And they have been here like three years!   OMG!   How good would Mo be with a real line.

And, he has been good.

 

Still think Redd needs a look.   Poor man's Emmitt. Smith.   Wink

[sparkosaurus]

Hi everyone...

 

I've been meaning to post a lot of what Diehard Otis has posted and I agree...I've been busy lately (and as a small business owner, that's been great) and unfortunately I don't have the time to read all the posts in this thread but from skimming I think I have an idea of the general sentiments here.

 

I think Jay abandons the run ***way*** too early...this isn't about being down by a bunch of points. It seems that as soon as we're down *any* points, we're passing nearly every single down. 

 

I also understand that Alf's numbers haven't been stellar and that the OL has pretty bad to put it mildly and there are all manner of places where you can place the blame as to why the running game appears to have stuttered...but I agree with some on this thread that you have to **commit to the run** in order to get the run game started...****ty OL or not.

 

What I think bothers me the most is this....

 

At the beginning of the season, Jay Gruden had, statistically speaking, a top 5 if not top 3 NFL running back. Even if stats aren't the entire picture, I think you have to agree that Almo is top 10 no matter what. He's running behind an OL that's not too different from what he ran behind the last two years. 

 

I haven't had the time to re-watch this season's games but I do remember what I was yelling at the TV....why in the **** do we keep running to the RIGHT? We have a ****ing turnstile at RG and *that's* where we're gonna run the ball? I don't care if you're practically telegraphing the play that we're running to the left, I'd take that with Almo and Trent over running behind Polumbus any day of the week...

 

The quickness with which Jay drops the run game in favor of passing makes me question his sanity. And for the record, I'm a big Jay Gruden fan...I really like his passion, his outlook, his demeanor, and his rapport with the guys...but for the life of me I can't understand how he comes to this conclusion...

 

I'm not going to go with my top 10 running back...instead I'm going to let the fate of this offense ride on the shoulders of our backup quarterback...

 

I'm sorry...that's just crazy talking...

 

I love Kirk...I think he's got a lot of promise and potential...and no matter how well he runs the offense...even if we didn't have these 8 picks to look back on in retrospect...you have to look at that and say god, you must be a crazy person...

 

Big ups to Diehard Otis for starting this thread...I've been wanting to get this off my chest for weeks but didn't have time to give all the scenery to go with it...

 

Nonetheless...go Skins...I know you guys can put it together....it all starts with the Titans...

 

spark

 

HTTR

[Cooleyfan1993]

Hi everyone...

 

I've been meaning to post a lot of what Diehard Otis has posted and I agree...I've been busy lately (and as a small business owner, that's been great) and unfortunately I don't have the time to read all the posts in this thread but from skimming I think I have an idea of the general sentiments here.

 

I think Jay abandons the run ***way*** too early...this isn't about being down by a bunch of points. It seems that as soon as we're down *any* points, we're passing nearly every single down. 

 

I also understand that Alf's numbers haven't been stellar and that the OL has pretty bad to put it mildly and there are all manner of places where you can place the blame as to why the running game appears to have stuttered...but I agree with some on this thread that you have to **commit to the run** in order to get the run game started...****ty OL or not.

 

What I think bothers me the most is this....

 

At the beginning of the season, Jay Gruden had, statistically speaking, a top 5 if not top 3 NFL running back. Even if stats aren't the entire picture, I think you have to agree that Almo is top 10 no matter what. He's running behind an OL that's not too different from what he ran behind the last two years. 

 

I haven't had the time to re-watch this season's games but I do remember what I was yelling at the TV....why in the **** do we keep running to the RIGHT? We have a ****ing turnstile at RG and *that's* where we're gonna run the ball? I don't care if you're practically telegraphing the play that we're running to the left, I'd take that with Almo and Trent over running behind Polumbus any day of the week...

 

The quickness with which Jay drops the run game in favor of passing makes me question his sanity. And for the record, I'm a big Jay Gruden fan...I really like his passion, his outlook, his demeanor, and his rapport with the guys...but for the life of me I can't understand how he comes to this conclusion...

 

I'm not going to go with my top 10 running back...instead I'm going to let the fate of this offense ride on the shoulders of our backup quarterback...

 

I'm sorry...that's just crazy talking...

 

I love Kirk...I think he's got a lot of promise and potential...and no matter how well he runs the offense...even if we didn't have these 8 picks to look back on in retrospect...you have to look at that and say god, you must be a crazy person...

 

Big ups to Diehard Otis for starting this thread...I've been wanting to get this off my chest for weeks but didn't have time to give all the scenery to go with it...

 

Nonetheless...go Skins...I know you guys can put it together....it all starts with the Titans...

 

spark

 

HTTR

i think we actually were trying to commit to the run a lot more than usual last sunday against the cardinals. problem is, it still didn't work. no matter how many yards we got. sometimes committing to the run won't always help.

[darrelgreenie]

VOR-

I'm sorry but your post seems like more platitudes to me.

They have opportunities to run but choose to pass; and IF their play calling was working you wouldn't hear any complaints from me about passing too much.

Saying the need to convert more 3rd downs is limiting the run game is coaching rhetoric.

Of course they need to convert more 3rd downs.

It's much easier to concert 3rd downs when you're not facing 2nd & 10 and 3rd and Long.

The answer to fixing a problem isn't to abandon it.

You have to ask yourself how best can the offense achieve efficiency? It's clear to me the answer isn't letting Cousins wing it around all game. They have an OL built and proven to execute the ZBS at a high level, much much better then they pass block.

We need to remember what our personnel does best and commit to that.

And we have not done that.

And that's on the coaches.

[dballer]

VOR-

I'm sorry but your post seems like more platitudes to me.

They have opportunities to run but choose to pass; and IF their play calling was working you wouldn't hear any complaints from me about passing too much.

Saying the need to convert more 3rd downs is limiting the run game is coaching rhetoric.

Of course they need to convert more 3rd downs.

It's much easier to concert 3rd downs when you're not facing 2nd & 10 and 3rd and Long.

The answer to fixing a problem isn't to abandon it.

You have to ask yourself how best can the offense achieve efficiency? It's clear to me the answer isn't letting Cousins wing it around all game. They have an OL built and proven to execute the ZBS at a high level, much much better then they pass block.

We need to remember what our personnel does best and commit to that.

And we have not done that.

And that's on the coaches.

 

I am kind of in between you and VOR on this. They are still calling the zone plays, they just aren't working as well. Hard to tell where it is going wrong. I have seen a few plays where it was a Niles Paul missed block that stopped it, or a Desean whiff that stopped it. I have also seen a few plays where pressure came right up the middle and Alfred was never able to stretch it. Teams are obviously selling out to stop the run, your QB has to be able to throw the ball to beat them.

 

As with everything this is kind of a referendum on all phases of the game. If we were to get up, or trade scores, we would probably run the ball more. He had 22 and 23 carries vs the Jags and Eagles. But when you fall behind, even one score, especially against the run defense of Seattle and Arizona, and they see that your QB isn't going to kill them, it is hard to run into that. I really don't mind the passing there. If the plays were better executed, the defense would have to play a little more honest, and it would be a little easier to run. 

 

I think the lack of converting 3rd downs kills the run game in the sense that less plays means less opportunities to run. 

Cousins threw it 36 times against Seattle, 38 against Arizona. I mean it is a lot, but he isn't slinging 50 times a game like you'll see some QBs in the nfl. I mean Palmer threw it 44 times and they were winning the whole game. And more than a couple of Kirk's attempts were screens.

And Lynch only ran it 17 times against us. Ellington 19. Yeh Wilson ran another 11 but half of those were called passes that he just took off on. 

 

Normally, if you are going to commit to the run you have the ability to have explosive plays, which isn't really Alfreds MO, or you have a defense you can trust to keep it close while you wear the other team down. We definitely don't have that.

 

I just don't think it is as easy as saying, run more.

 

All that being said, I would like to see us run more lol. But, I think I would rather try something more like a RBBC. Keep Alfred in that 15 carry range, maybe 5-10 for Helu, and then mix in Redd for a couple of series. Just to show the defenses a few different looks, a few different running styles. 

[darrelgreenie]

Sure they are still calling some zone plays but not anywhere close to last/previous seasons. How often have you seen a toss/pitch this season? How often have seen bootlegs as constraint plays for outside zone? How often do they call back to back runs? There have been a few drives stalled after 8-9 yard runs on 1st down that were followed incomplete passes or sacks. Those could have been runs.

The notion that there hasn't been opportunity to run more simply doesnt ring true. I agree though that it doesnt need to be Alfred.

Helu imo has proved he deserves more carries.

Imho the best way to improve this offense and team is for the coaching staff to really focus on getting the running game back on track and making that the focal point on offense.

[mcsluggo]

Helu works in spots when the opposing team isn't thinking run but he's terrible at running through contact. He needs a lot of space to be effective and really he's a more of a receiving threat than an every down back.

Alfred, like any running back, needs a commitment to the running game to be effective. You can't just run on first down and abandon the run if it doesn't get you 5 yards every series. The running game is about beating up the defense and wearing them down. You don't get 4 yards every attempt, if you did you'd never stop. You average it when you stick to it and get a few big runs.

It would help if the line didn't suck and actually got some push. How does our OLine compare to the cowboys in terms of size and weight?

 

Jerry Jones sucks donkey balls as a person and mostly as an owner as well... but one thing that he DOES understand, is that commitment to the O-line will ALWAYS pay dividends.  THe cowboys are stacked with a young uuber talented Oline that will just get better over time  

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Anyone else getting a little concerned? 18-54 today. That's not a bad number of carries, but his last three weeks have been less than mediocre. As someone who is blind to the whole field, what are you people seeing as the issue lately? Is it him? Is our line just not creating holes to run through? Our running back production is important for our offense overall (as is pretty much everyone else)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Anyone else getting a little concerned? 18-54 today. That's not a bad number of carries, but his last three weeks have been less than mediocre. As someone who is blind to the whole field, what are you people seeing as the issue lately? Is it him? Is our line just not creating holes to run through? Our running back production is important for our offense overall (as is pretty much everyone else)

 

Floated it above and in another thread last week. I'm getting more and more convinced he's a system/ RO back.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love The Butler. One of my favourite current 'Skins and I still say he's right up there with any back I've ever seen after contact. If not the best. And he works harder than most anyone on the team. But as soon as Roberts not in there, and we go away from the threat of read option and the QB having to be accounted for taking off, his production diminishes considerably. The lanes clog up, and his vision in his 'one cut and go' style just disappears as he runs down blind alleys.

 

I can't confirm that theory until 10's back and we're rolling again but it sure as heck seems more than a coincidence to me the more the weeks roll by.

 

Hail.

[Burgold]

Perhaps the big reason we've been losing is that Pierre Garcon hasn't been getting the ball!

[isle-hawg]

Our problems on O is not so much in the play calling, It is the horrendous OL play!!!  We have defenders in the backfield almost immediately after the snap resulting in rushed plays by the QB and the RB having to escape tackles yards before the LOS.  Untill this mess of an OL is fixed the O in general is going to suck ass regardless of the play calling.

[Taylor703]

Chester and Lauvao are major problems. There is simply no where for him to run. So many of this teams problem center around the OL.