NFL.com: Cousins outplaying Griffin?

[wrecker]

 It should be against the law to mention Jason Campbell's name on this site.  Talk about a dumpster fire in the middle of a desert.

I would have rather kept him instead of Mcnugget, Rex and Beck until we found our guy.

[Santana_89]

The doubts will definitely be there. Sucks but that's the business

He'll still be the starter but ppl will look at him like Bradford and Locker

Glad these "ppl" aren't in the front office making decisions.

[Santana_89]

This is crazy talk about a make or break year for Robert.  People are forgetting that he is learning a new system this year and we have a rookie coach...he may get it or may not get it this year but I think he will.  If he don't get it you go with him again next year because sometimes it take more than three years especially if a new system is being deployed.  By the way, I don't count year 2 because Robert was coming off injury and the disfunction with the team as a whole was a problem for all involved.

 

Why does it have to be any different with Robert versus other quarterback in the league?  How many opportunities have Bradford and Matthew Stafford had to get it right?  I don't post much but I've been here a long time.  However,  some of the knee jerk posts or reactions are legendary!

 

HTTR! 

Well said my friend. Some of these posts are unreal.

 

[pjfootballer]

Yeah and Griffin played in about 6 games where the team and coaches checked out. You could see it all over the players and coaches faces, attitudes, body language and execution that it was all over by the mid way point of the season.

After the Minnesota loss, the whole team checked out because Shanny gave up.

[Paul Cumberland]

whooops.. wrong thread...

[darrelgreenie]

Zac Boyer ‏@ZacBoyer 55s

Via everyone covering the Browns, Brian Hoyer will start vs. Redskins on Monday. He and Johnny Manziel will split first-team snaps.

 

transaltion....In the second/maybe even 3rd qtr Kyle is gonna play his 1st team offense against our second team defense.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Glad these "ppl" aren't in the front office making decisions.

That's the pressure of being a QB man. Trust me, RG3 knows this

[JSSkinz]

Did anyone here watch the game last Thursday and not feel like Cousins was more comfortable running the offense, I thought it was quite obvious.

 

I'm not saying we bench Robert or tell him to kick rocks but people wth no dog in the fight are just pointing out what they see.

[Bang]

Did anyone here watch the game last Thursday and not feel like Cousins was more comfortable running the offense, I thought it was quite obvious.

 

I'm not saying we bench Robert or tell him to kick rocks but people wth no dog in the fight are just pointing out what they see.

I watched the game last week and said to myself "this is the first preseason game, and pretending that i can see anything in it would be pretty stupid. I better not go post that i thought i could glean anything from a first preseason game against a team that is really just coasting to get to the regular season, because I think i'd probably look pretty dumb."

But hey... that's just me.

~Bang

[JSSkinz]

I watched the game last week and said to myself "this is the first preseason game, and pretending that i can see anything in it would be pretty stupid. I better not go post that i thought i could glean anything from a first preseason game against a team that is really just coasting to get to the regular season, because I think i'd probably look pretty dumb."

But hey... that's just me.

~Bang

 

The Pats had their starting d lineman and linebackers in the game and we rolled them with our ground game.  Would it be stupid to think our ground game looks primed to have a solid season?

 

I think every game can be used to gauge players and the team as a whole to some extent.

 

But hey....  that's just me.

[Mania]

Did anyone here watch the game last Thursday and not feel like Cousins was more comfortable running the offense, I thought it was quite obvious.

 

I'm not saying we bench Robert or tell him to kick rocks but people wth no dog in the fight are just pointing out what they see.

Starters and second string. If you say the pats were resting there starters, well rg3 didn't have reed, garçon or Jackson

[roanoker]

The  good news is that In several weeks, Mr. Wesseling will have more worthwhile stories to write about...

[Bang]

The Pats had their starting d lineman and linebackers in the game and we rolled them with our ground game.  Would it be stupid to think our ground game looks primed to have a solid season?

 

I think every game can be used to gauge players and the team as a whole to some extent.

 

But hey....  that's just me.

I don't see how you can say it's primed for anything based on watching a practice against people who's primary concern is to not get hurt.

The vets go through the motions. Believing otherwise and thinking you can read anything from it is a waste of time.

Preseason is entertaining, even the fan hype-up third preseason game, which they try to tell us is the dress rehearsal, with a real gameplan and everything, and then when week one rolls around you have forgotten the 3rd preseason game so much so that the pace of even the worst matchup in week one blows the third preseason game completely away in terms of preparation and execution, and the gameplan they swear they implement.

It's not, and they don't. they may throw a few things in there and expec t the vets to lather up, but overall it's still just a practice, and is nothing at all like a regular season game.

we were 4-0 last year in preseason. We rushed for 649 yards in 4 games, were ranked #1 in the NFL for the preseason, we scored an average of 24 points, and gave up an average of 13.

what did you see then that told you we'd be 3-13 the rest of the way, embarrassed and blown out of games before halftime?

~Bang

[FLWSkin]

Well the problem in judging what you see in preseason is that you don't always know what you are seeing. I've read that Griffin was asked to go through ALL his progressions before he threw. That could be why he was slower than Cousins. I also read that on the pass to Morris, he was told on that play to throw to Morris only. Morris didn't get open, so.....he threw it away after waiting for him to get open. So if you're saying he looked slow, it could be because he was asked to be. Is it bad his pass in the end zone wasn't complete? He put it the only place possible where it might be caught but not intercepted. That's fine with me. I remember about 10 years ago in a preseason game that one of our corners got beat over and over by a receiver. Gibbs was asked about it and he said that the corner was having problems with a certain coverage and they had him do it over and over even though he was getting beat. The consensus was the guy sucked, but people didn't take in to account that they were working on something and he learned from it and got better. So saying, X is better or further along then Y only means so much because you don't always know what they were asked to do. I got the impression they had Robert working on certain things and they had Kirk working on others.

[Gamebreaker]

There is nothing to see here. Stupid reporter who makes a click bait report is getting exactly what he wanted, clicks. 

[FLWSkin]

Not from me, I'm just commenting here. I don't click on any Redskins articles I see, too many are just stupid. I get my news here.

[Bang]

And that's just it. as fans we don;'t know what the coaches are looking for, what they are working on.

i noticed that Aldrick Robinson got almost, if not all the throws to a wideout for most of the first quarter.

I don't see what anyone can get from it other than the coaches want to see him perform, so they worked the ball to him. (And this is only MY guess, since i also have no idea what they are planning.)

Now, i will say that i do not totally dismiss preseason as i probably sounded like I did.. i liked what i saw out of aldrick robinson, but it really does not show anything that may be a harbinger of his future performance in the regular season. It shows they challeneged him (at least this is what I believe, because we really don't know) and he responded with some crisp route running, which is really what you want to see.

BUT, by the same token we don't know what the Pats D coordinator was doing, maybe he wanted to see some one on one or leave one of his guys out to show HIM something..

Occasionally you can see something you really like.. Alfred Morris was a nobody who showed what he was made of in preseason. You just knew he had it.

But most of the time, preseason is just practice, and team motivations are different,, teams may punt when they might normally not just so they can work on coverages, teams may do a lot of things they won't in the regular season so they can work on things.

Since the run game was brought up, here's what i saw in the all-too overhyped "starter v starter" minutes.

Running left we got good yards... looked like about 8 yards per try on first or second down.

Running right we went nowhere as i could tell.

But who didn't already know Trent Williams could lead block and pave the way like one of the best in the NFL?

sorry if I sounded condescending above,, it's just my way to be sarcastic,, and since the season is once again starting back up, here is my obligatory "read what i write with tongue in cheek" speech for folks i haven't met or don't recognize. So read what i write without malice, even if I hoot and holler or even crack on you a bit. It's just talking football. Same way we would hanging out and having fun.

Other things I noticed in the game that I think mean something..

1. Chris Thompson.. there must be something awfully special because everything i see from my couch says he isn't going to make it. He's too small,, there have been small fast guys, but he plays small. Weak and fragile.

2. Lache Seastrunk has very quick feet. he grabbed a screen pass and his feet were immediately in gear as hi body turned. He went from zero to holy-crap in about two steps.

~Bang

[Alexa]

I'll let you know when the discussion is over. K?

Second you can view the games anyway you want, but don't expect anyone else to follow you down the road wearing blinders.

Third whether you regard the Eagles games as good or bad the FACT remains that you cannot find any metric that supports Cousins is on Griffin's level enough to even warrant this fantasyland belief you hold of Cousins somehow rivaling Griffin.

Mike Shanahan tried that nonsense during the last 3 games and fell flat on your face.

 

How is Denver?

Now the discussion can be over.

I don't sit around and play with metrics. This is football. Not geometry. I can watch a game and tell whether or not a player plays well. You were proven wrong and now you're all bitter about it. And I also never said Cousins was on Griffin's level. I never said that so stop putting words in my mouth. I think Cousins does some things better than Griffin and vice versa. I already said GRIFFIN SHOULD BE THE STARTER.

Well the problem in judging what you see in preseason is that you don't always know what you are seeing. I've read that Griffin was asked to go through ALL his progressions before he threw. That could be why he was slower than Cousins. I also read that on the pass to Morris, he was told on that play to throw to Morris only. Morris didn't get open, so.....he threw it away after waiting for him to get open. So if you're saying he looked slow, it could be because he was asked to be. Is it bad his pass in the end zone wasn't complete? He put it the only place possible where it might be caught but not intercepted. That's fine with me. I remember about 10 years ago in a preseason game that one of our corners got beat over and over by a receiver. Gibbs was asked about it and he said that the corner was having problems with a certain coverage and they had him do it over and over even though he was getting beat. The consensus was the guy sucked, but people didn't take in to account that they were working on something and he learned from it and got better. So saying, X is better or further along then Y only means so much because you don't always know what they were asked to do. I got the impression they had Robert working on certain things and they had Kirk working on others.

To me it's ridiculous that people are trying to judge Griffin off 4 throws, one way or the other.

[Zazzaro703]

Did anyone here watch the game last Thursday and not feel like Cousins was more comfortable running the offense, I thought it was quite obvious.

 

I'm not saying we bench Robert or tell him to kick rocks but people wth no dog in the fight are just pointing out what they see.

I did and thought it seemed like the message to Griffin was go through your progressions and then dump it off to the RB to practice it. It's a game that doesn't count.

Well the problem in judging what you see in preseason is that you don't always know what you are seeing. I've read that Griffin was asked to go through ALL his progressions before he threw. That could be why he was slower than Cousins. I also read that on the pass to Morris, he was told on that play to throw to Morris only. Morris didn't get open, so.....he threw it away after waiting for him to get open. So if you're saying he looked slow, it could be because he was asked to be. Is it bad his pass in the end zone wasn't complete? He put it the only place possible where it might be caught but not intercepted. That's fine with me. I remember about 10 years ago in a preseason game that one of our corners got beat over and over by a receiver. Gibbs was asked about it and he said that the corner was having problems with a certain coverage and they had him do it over and over even though he was getting beat. The consensus was the guy sucked, but people didn't take in to account that they were working on something and he learned from it and got better. So saying, X is better or further along then Y only means so much because you don't always know what they were asked to do. I got the impression they had Robert working on certain things and they had Kirk working on others.

Where did you read that? Because that's exactly what i thought i saw and mentioned it after the game last Thursday night. It was almost obviously deliberate.

[Mahons21]

RG3 is a much better player than Kirk Cousins.

 

RG3 is not perfect a perfect QB, and never will be, and his strengths/weaknesses now are very similar to what they were in college.  His  strengths and weaknesses have remained the due in large part to system he played in over the last two years, which placed little to no emphasis on developing him as an all around passer.

 

RG3's strengths coming out of college were his arm talent (deep ball accuracy especially),  his mobility, and general ability to make a play.  

 

RG3's weaknesses were durability concerns, and his lack of experience in a pro-style offense (especially under center).

 

Kirks Cousins strength was his time spent playing in a pro-style offense, and what was perceived to be his ability to manage the game in a play-action offense.

 

Kirks Cousins weakness was size, average arm strength, and knack for making poor decisions when he's being pressured.

 

 

It shouldn't be a surprise that currently Kirk might look more comfortable in this offense than RG3 does.  Kirk's had significantly more time playing in similar offenses, but that does not make him the better QB.   

 

It's very odd though that people get so bent out of shape when there's any mention of RG3's weaknesses.  If his weakness is not his pocket passing then I ask  those of you who so ardently support RG3.  What are his weaknesses and is it okay for them to be discussed?  

[RiverboatGambler]

If the quote below is true then it makes perfect sense. Griffin looked unusually slow getting the ball out but Kirk looked like he was almost being showcased to other NFL teams. He was allowed to run playaction bootlegs, half and full field reads, option keepers, deep balls, short tosses and everything else in-between. With Robert they looked like they were working on very specific things and instructed him DO NOT TAKE OFF. It is actually a comfort to hear this was the case and it makes perfect sense when you think about Gruden's comments in the the pressers about Robert's development as a pocket passer.

Well the problem in judging what you see in preseason is that you don't always know what you are seeing. I've read that Griffin was asked to go through ALL his progressions before he threw. That could be why he was slower than Cousins. I also read that on the pass to Morris, he was told on that play to throw to Morris only. Morris didn't get open, so.....he threw it away after waiting for him to get open. So if you're saying he looked slow, it could be because he was asked to be. Is it bad his pass in the end zone wasn't complete? He put it the only place possible where it might be caught but not intercepted. That's fine with me. I remember about 10 years ago in a preseason game that one of our corners got beat over and over by a receiver. Gibbs was asked about it and he said that the corner was having problems with a certain coverage and they had him do it over and over even though he was getting beat. The consensus was the guy sucked, but people didn't take in to account that they were working on something and he learned from it and got better. So saying, X is better or further along then Y only means so much because you don't always know what they were asked to do. I got the impression they had Robert working on certain things and they had Kirk working on others.

[JSSkinz]

I don't see how you can say it's primed for anything based on watching a practice against people who's primary concern is to not get hurt.

The vets go through the motions. Believing otherwise and thinking you can read anything from it is a waste of time.

Preseason is entertaining, even the fan hype-up third preseason game, which they try to tell us is the dress rehearsal, with a real gameplan and everything, and then when week one rolls around you have forgotten the 3rd preseason game so much so that the pace of even the worst matchup in week one blows the third preseason game completely away in terms of preparation and execution, and the gameplan they swear they implement.

It's not, and they don't. they may throw a few things in there and expec t the vets to lather up, but overall it's still just a practice, and is nothing at all like a regular season game.

we were 4-0 last year in preseason. We rushed for 649 yards in 4 games, were ranked #1 in the NFL for the preseason, we scored an average of 24 points, and gave up an average of 13.

what did you see then that told you we'd be 3-13 the rest of the way, embarrassed and blown out of games before halftime?

~Bang

 

 

I saw a QB start every preason game who wasnt going to play in the regular season, so I wasnt expecting much, how bout you?

 

I never said the preseason is the end all be all or Robert should be benched, all I said was Cousins looked more comfortable running the offense and you got your panties in a bundle.

 

We could go through the entire preseason giving up zero points on defense and score 30 points a game and it would mean nothing.  What I do look for is how our starters do against the other teams starters and thats about it.

 

I asked a simple question and your trying to give me a lesson on preseason that I dont need, I've been watching this team for 27 years and I understand that preseason doesnt mean much, but thanks.

[Bang]

I suppose if you understood preseason, we wouldn't have had this conversation because you would not have stated that it was "obvious Cousins is more comfortable running the offense".

But by all means, enjoy the preseason,. You pretend you can get something from it, and I'll quietly chuckle when you say so.

If you think based on that practice that Cousins is "obviously" more comfortable running the offense, then so be it.

~Chuckle

[JSSkinz]

Let me show you why I'm not totally sold on RG3 and why preseason does matter for a team thats only made the playoffs 3 times in 20 years.

 

This is the game from last week, we drove down and had a 2nd and 10 at the 18 yard line after Morris ran for no gain.

 

This is 3 frames showing how Robert didnt go through his progressions, he starred down the receiver and missed a wide open Jordan Reed for what would have been either a 1st and goal at the 1 or 2 yard line and possibly a touchdown.

 

Pic 1 - Ball is hiked, Robert has a nice pocket and stares down the outside option on the right.

 

 

Pic 2 - The O lineman gets pushed back into Robert a bit but he holds his block and Robert is still starring down the same receiver.  The Cb notices this and starts to make his move towards the receiver knowing that Robert is about to throw it to him.

 

Notice the pocket in front of Robert (He didnt step up into it), and notice how open Jordan Reed is (top left of the pic).

 

 

Pic 3 - The CB read the play and was in position to possibly pick off the ball if the pass wasnt so bad, once again notice Jordan Reed in the top left of the screen.  Keep in mind Robert was never touched and the pocket was so open for him to step up and hit a receiver.

 

 

 

So please give me some more excuses on why I should ignore what I see in preseason.

 

 

I wish I could post the video, Reed was open the entire play.  The db was playing 5 yards off and had no chance to stop the throw and it didnt even need to be a good throw, just a decent throw would have done the trick.

[Mahons21]

No QB is ever asked to go through all his progressions before he throws. They're progressions, not progressions and regressions. After you go through a progression you don't go back to it unless the play breaks down. If RG was asked to always go through his progressions he would have never thrown that pass to AR15, nor would he have pat his chest, gesturing to Reed that he had missed him, on the play that someone is claiming was only supposed to go to Morris.

I assume he was asked to focus on going through his progressions as quickly as he could, which lead to him coming off reed too soon, and according to Cooley, missing Roberts on an earlier pass.