The Atlantic: The Case for Reparations

[Chew]

1) I think youngchew is black

2) I think youngchew was joking

3) I'm only 75% sure on #2  

 

 

My apologies is people took what i said the wrong way...no harm intended.  most definitely just a joke...

 

I read the article by the way (i'm one of the blacks that can read and write), I still say reparations is a silly idea that would only divide us even more.  No good can come from it. 

[TheGoodBits]

C. If in never-never world, there were reparations, it should be in the form of free education at state schools and things of that nature. The long-term impact of slavery can't really be wiped out with just money.

I agree. Maybe free education at state colleges for 100 years. 200, 400 maybe? Maybe after 400 years the gap between black society and white society would be successfully bridged. Hell the white guys might be worse off after being saddled with all the student loan debt from private college since their parents sure don't want to send them to school with all those freeloading black kids.

[Bliz]

A. Reparations are a political impossibility.

B. All talk of reparations are driven by the political right because they want to scare the **** out of older white voters.

C. If in never-never world, there were reparations, it should be in the form of free education at state schools and things of that nature. The long-term impact of slavery can't really be wiped out with just money.

 

Nor should they be possible.  I'm a pretty liberal guy on a lot of subjects, but I don't buy this one for a minute in the traditional way in which it is discussed.  Even if it wasn't deadweight politically, there are just too many logistical nightmares to make it worth even beginning to discuss.

 

The education idea is an interesting one though don't you have the same problems?  If you're black but your parents moved here from another country in 1990, do you still get the free education?  What's the cutoff?  What if I'm white but I have mixed ancestry?  Do I get partial credit?  Do we have to start investigating everyone's ancestry?

[Springfield]

Even if there was a plan to pay reparations, what about mixed blacks? You know, the light skinned brothers? Barack Obama for example? What about the people who are as white as can be but have a black great grandfather. How about the white guy who never had slave owning ancestors, do they pay into reparations? If everyone pays into reparations then aren't black people just paying themselves?

It's not logically possible.

[Predicto]

Not to sidetrack, but is voting really a fundamental right in a universal sense? Or is it American? If it applies to American citizens, how does somebody know you are a citizen without ID?

 

It is a fundamental constitutional right in the US.  This was decided long ago.  

 

We know you are a voter because you vote in local precincts where you are registered, and it is easy to check to make sure that you aren't voting pretending to be someone else in that precinct because that other person might show up and complain, and mostly because the criminal consequences of vote fraud are so dire that no one would ever bother risking it just to cast one single vote that is extraordinarily unlikely to change anything.  

 

Vote fraud is real - but you do it when you COUNT the votes, not by buying a bottle of hooch to get one non-citizen hobo to cast a vote.  That never happens, because there is no value in it.   ID requirements do nothing to deter or prevent actual fraud.

 

The push for voter ID has nothing do with actual fraud happening anywhere, and has everything to do with suppressing the vote of the poor, especially minorities, who are least likely to have official IDs.  Plenty of GOP officials and talking heads have admitted as much.  

[Springfield]

And yet predatory lending practices specifically targeted blacks as recently as the late 2000s. We have states enacting voting laws specifically to disenfranchise blacks. Quelled?

The article goes into this quite a bit. You'll see that this was not an accident.

We'll keep kicking the can down the road forever. I've got no illusions that anything of significance will be done. But the debt we owe as a society will not go away eventually. It's earning interest.

I think predatory lending went after anyone who was a credit risk, many of whom happened to be black (or minority in general). I'm sure you can find specific articles that indict specific people of targeting specific groups of people. In a general sense I think they wanted to give money to people who shouldn't have received it in the first place.

As far as neighborhoods "designed" to be segregated... I think it's very likely that black people want to live with black people and whites, hispancs, Asians, etc. It's familiarity, culture, etc. Also, by socioeconomic status. I want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to. Others want to live in a neighborhood they can relate to.

As far as kicking the can down the road... I don't want to pay reparations because I had no slave owning ancestors to my knowledge. The further you kick the can down the road the harder it is to tell who's who and who deserves what. Racism/stereotyping isn't dead but paying back the ancestors of slaves seems like a difficult and unjust idea.

[Predicto]

Ah, I was unaware that only non black people had ID's.

 

Just a much higher percentage than whites.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As far as neighborhoods "designed" to be segregated... I think it's very likely that black people want to live with black people and whites, hispancs, Asians, etc. It's familiarity, culture, etc. Also, by socioeconomic status. I want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to. Others want to live in a neighborhood they can relate to.

 

 

In the south, there was no real need to design neighborhoods to be segregated, because that was the law for 100 years. Southern neighborhoods are segregated historically.

 

In the north, it was done by specific design. The best example is Chicago. This is documented. Daley looked at a map and said, The black people will live here. And then he put down the interstates to box them in. Read "Boss" by Mike Royko sometime. It might be the most entertaining book ever written on American city politcs.

 

New York's plans were more humane under Robert Moses, but it still created a largely segregated city.

[FanboyOf91]

Nice article in the abstract, but reparations are never, ever, ever, ever, ever going to happen.   Look at the resistance against any form of affirmative action, much less quotas.  There are no living slaveholders, and as a society we do not believe in collective guilt.  

 

The only thing this article is going to do is revive (for the 300th time this year) a wave of conservative white resentment and backlash.   *golfclap for the Atlantic*

A year from now, Ta-Nehisi will probably still think he did a good job.

[TheGoodBits]

I think predatory lending went after anyone who was a credit risk, many of whom happened to be black (or minority in general). I'm sure you can find specific articles that indict specific people of targeting specific groups of people. In a general sense I think they wanted to give money to people who shouldn't have received it in the first place.

As far as neighborhoods "designed" to be segregated... I think it's very likely that black people want to live with black people and whites, hispancs, Asians, etc. It's familiarity, culture, etc. Also, by socioeconomic status. I want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to. Others want to live in a neighborhood they can relate to.

As far as kicking the can down the road... I don't want to pay reparations because I had no slave owning ancestors to my knowledge. The further you kick the can down the road the harder it is to tell who's who and who deserves what. Racism/stereotyping isn't dead but paying back the ancestors of slaves seems like a difficult and unjust idea.

I'm going to sound like a huge ******* here, but dude, please read the article before you comment on this. It went on for pages about how Chicago designed segregated neighborhoods. It cited specific examples of predatory lending targeting black people. I know it's long. It took me parts of two days to finish it. But it's all in there.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

I'm going to sound like a huge ******* here, but dude, please read the article before you comment on this. It went on for pages about how Chicago designed segregated neighborhoods. It cited specific examples of predatory lending targeting black people. I know it's long. It took me parts of two days to finish it. But it's all in there.

I think after all of this you need to read this important rebuttal from the voice of our times, PFTCommenter.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/05/reparations-redskins-mark-cuban-essay-race-three-parts.html

[Going Commando]

I think after all of this you need to read this important rebuttal from the voice of our times, PFTCommenter.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/05/reparations-redskins-mark-cuban-essay-race-three-parts.html

:lol: :lol:

[Predicto]

I think after all of this you need to read this important rebuttal from the voice of our times, PFTCommenter.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/05/reparations-redskins-mark-cuban-essay-race-three-parts.html

 

That was brilliant.  

[Larry]

That was brilliant.

I actually read most of that steaming pile of dung, because you recommended it. (And didn't label your review as sarcasm).

I want reparations.

[Duckus]

Been meaning to read this article. Going to try and tackle it this weekend.

[chipwhich]

I want reparations.

 

LOL, the reparations from article one or article two.  

[Jumbo]

I haven't been able to post this for at least a couple months...and you know how I get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Destino]

I think after all of this you need to read this important rebuttal from the voice of our times, PFTCommenter.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/05/reparations-redskins-mark-cuban-essay-race-three-parts.html

"In conclusion, Racism no longer exists in America and if it does even a little bit, its not that big of a deal because it makes white people feel uncomfortable to admit it, so thats technicaly bullying."

lol thanks for posting that.

[Springfield]

I'm going to sound like a huge ******* here, but dude, please read the article before you comment on this. It went on for pages about how Chicago designed segregated neighborhoods. It cited specific examples of predatory lending targeting black people. I know it's long. It took me parts of two days to finish it. But it's all in there.

Ok, I read it.

Here's what I think. It goes to great lengths to provide a lot of information about how blacks have been wronged through history. Lots of horrible stories of slaves, former slaves, people in slave states, people from former slave states, people who moved away from former slave states. Then, there's the evil white people who wronged them and there's the other white people who didn't wrong them but are also bad because they let these bad things happen.

Gave an example of reparations being paid to a former slave by a former slave owner. Not millions of people several generations later.

On top of this, to make you feel extra guilty, let's point out that the Germans paid reparations to the Jews! If you aren't in favor of reparations then you're equivalent to Hitler! Because you know, the holocaust and what West Germany was subject to directly after WW2 is PRECISELY the same as slavery and the US 200 years after slavery. Sweet logic!

Look, I didn't own slaves. I wouldn't want to own slaves. My dad didn't own slaves, my grandfather didn't own slaves and I doubt his grandfather did either. Hell, I doubt they even took advantage of blacks by offering ****ty contracts on homes in ghettos.

I don't want to pay a dime towards reparations. I'm sorry that the world hasn't been fair to black people and still isn't all rainbows and unicorns today but I don't feel at all responsible for that.

Oh, as far as a "conversation" about reparations. It's cool as long as it doesn't involve my money being disbursed. Have fun with that one.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I wish we still had the "popcorn munchie" 

[chipwhich]

I wish we still had the "popcorn munchie" 

 

LOL Yeah SpringfieldSkins really laid a doozie on the board.  Get your popcorn ready.

[TheGoodBits]

Gave an example of reparations being paid to a former slave by a former slave owner. Not millions of people several generations

I don't want to pay a dime towards reparations. I'm sorry that the world hasn't been fair to black people and still isn't all rainbows and unicorns today but I don't feel at all responsible for that.

Oh, as far as a "conversation" about reparations. It's cool as long as it doesn't involve my money being disbursed. Have fun with that one.

And yet you are responsible. Just as we all are. The United States built itself into an economic powerhouse on the backs of slaves. Any wealth you have accumulated as a part of that system is STILL partly money from the slave trade. Just because you or your ancestors did not own slaves does not mean you weren't happy to reap the benefits of that institution.

At any rate, the point is that it's not a debt owed by you or me. It's a debt owed by society. People don't like to talk about it because it's not a comfortable thought. But that doesn't make it untrue.

[twa]

"At any rate, the point is that it's not a debt owed by you or me. It's a debt owed by society"

 

Nonsense, the use of society there is a dodge.

[Kosher Ham]

The reparations should be the 40 acres and a mule. The mule would be useless...but those 40 acres would all be in Alaska, Montana.

[Springfield]

And yet you are responsible. Just as we all are. The United States built itself into an economic powerhouse on the backs of slaves. Any wealth you have accumulated as a part of that system is STILL partly money from the slave trade. Just because you or your ancestors did not own slaves does not mean you weren't happy to reap the benefits of that institution.

At any rate, the point is that it's not a debt owed by you or me. It's a debt owed by society. People don't like to talk about it because it's not a comfortable thought. But that doesn't make it untrue.

A debt owed by society, but to who?

For instance, the article brings up Barack Obama several times. Uses Obama as a prime example as a black person who has excelled even though society is set up to make him fail. Obama's father was a n African from Kenya, correct? His mother was white? I fail to see how slavery even effected him.

So are they changing the goalposts with this article?

Life isn't fair to black people, even today. I completely agree. It isn't fair to most minorities though. Do we owe illegal immigrants from El Salvador reparations because they come here and we don't give them a "fair shake", which forces them to live in cramped houses for jobs that only pay cash by the day? That's modern slavery by many standards.

What about Indians? We took their land, much more so than any black man. We slaughtered them systematically. We forced them to live in per designed areas. I'd say that American Indians were possibly treated even worse than slaves in many respects. Have we paid reparations to them?