KHOU.com: "Deputies: Dad fatally shoots teen boy daughter snuck into her bedroom"

[Commander PK]

Ah, I see we've invented the standard of "statutory breaking and entering":  Defined as "when someone was consensually allowed into a house, by someone who I claim cannot legally consent to allowing someone into the house."  

 

I thought your that last really long post of yours was pretty well written, and I thought we found some common ground.  I'm not sure why you are continuing to fight this battle. 

 

You said that the father was not criminally responsible.  So why are you still arguing?

[Larry]

I thought your that last really long post of yours was pretty well written, and I thought we found some common ground. I'm not sure why you are continuing to fight this battle.

You said that the father was not criminally responsible. So why are you still arguing?

Because I have trouble with the assertion that if my child invites your child over to my place, I'm allowed to kill your child?

[Commander PK]

Because I have trouble with the assertion that if my child invites your child over to my place, I'm allowed to kill your child?

 

I understand having trouble with it. 

 

what would you propose we do so under no circumstances no matter what that would never ever be "allowed?"

 

Do you believe we can legislate away every problem to prevent all bad things from happening?

[twa]

Because I have trouble with the assertion that if my child invites your child over to my place, I'm allowed to kill your child?

 

That child should make the adults aware of their presence to prevent any such misunderstandings

 

When all the parents involved are unaware bad things happen....like a knock on your door telling you the kid you thought was in another state got shot in someone's house down the freeway.

 

http://www.click2houston.com/news/mom-of-teen-shot-killed-by-girlfriends-father-in-her-room-speaks-out/24980234

 

When officers knocked on McCormick's door at 8 a.m. Thursday morning she couldn't believe the news that her son was gone. The last time she saw him was in New Orleans, where the family was vacationing.

"He was visiting his father, I left to head back to Houston, and his birth mother was supposed to bring him back to Houston and drop him off at my house," McCormick said. "I wasn't expecting him until Sunday, when spring break was over. When the detectives came to my door and told me my son was dead, I kept arguing with them and said, 'No, you have the wrong person, my son is in New Orleans.'"

According Johran's mom, another relative dropped him off at a friend's house back in Houston without telling her.

"I have never heard of the girl he was dating," McCormick said. "I didn't know he was dating anyone. I just don't understand why my son is gone. The man that killed him should have been arrested. It was murder, it was murder."

[RansomthePasserby]

A grown woman does not get shot if she's in a 15 year old boy's room.

What makes you say that? Women can be just as dangerous as men.

[sherrardsd]

Its even more scary that you completely absolve the teenager of any wrong doing just because he is a teenager. Maybe you have low expectations but a 17 y/o should know better than to be in someone's house uninvited at 2am.

No I just expect a 17 year old to make stupid choices and don't consider it being uninvited when he was literally invited. I do have lower expectations for a 17 year old than I do a grown man. That doesn't seem to matter though. Pow pow pow, we're back in the Wild West now!!!

[sherrardsd]

What makes you say that? Women can be just as dangerous as men.

Obviously because the dad would think it's cool rather than feel threatened or embarrassed or angry or whatever.

Maybe we should make up a task force that goes around and stops teenagers from doing dumb stuff that teenagers do. By shooting them in the head!!!

[Commander PK]

Pow pow pow, we're back in the Wild West now!!!

 

 

Maybe we should make up a task force that goes around and stops teenagers from doing dumb stuff that teenagers do. By shooting them in the head!!!

 

and when there are no more points to be made...the threads degenerate into this.   

[CrypticVillain]

She's a juvenile.

The juvenile justice system is supposed to be aimed at rehabilitation, not at punishment.

She might be a juvenile, but I have seen cases when juveniles have gotten punished as an adult. If there was a law for her to get punished, she should get punished as an adult in this situation.

 

But since we agree that she really didn't break any laws, this is a moot point. 

[Bang]

She hasn't been proven to break any laws yet,, but if she's lying to the detectives in the course of their investigation, if she bstructs the truth she sure has, and if she lies under oath she definitely will again.

And I'd like to think that the cops and State's Attorney's office will be able to get the truth out of a 16 year old who's father just murdered her boyfriend in front of her.

 

 

~Bang

[skinsmarydu]

And I'd like to think that the cops and State's Attorney's office will be able to get the truth out of a 16 year old who's father just murdered her boyfriend in front of her.

 

 

~Bang

Let my mom do the "questioning". She'll be singin before ya know it.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Because I have trouble with the assertion that if my child invites your child over to my place, I'm allowed to kill your child?

It's not like she invited him over at noon while the father and brother were home and he decided to pull a gun and shoot the boy.  She invited him over, without her fathers consent/knowledge, in the middle of the night (2:00am), then claimed she didn't know the boy and put her father into an immediate, threatening situation.  

 

Had it gone down the same except she told the truth and the father still shot the kid, yes, 100% at fault and should pay for the crime.  Now, like others have pointed out, there are some holes in the story and she could crack on the stand and more info come out.

 

But, right now, with what we know based on what the father and daughter have stated, he was acting to what he thought was a threatening situation.  

 

Don't make it sound like fathers of daughters that own guns think its ok to kill some boy their daughter invites over any time during the day or night.  Or that the courts/law think its ok either.  Come on man  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

She hasn't been proven to break any laws yet,, but if she's lying to the detectives in the course of their investigation, if she bstructs the truth she sure has, and if she lies under oath she definitely will again.

And I'd like to think that the cops and State's Attorney's office will be able to get the truth out of a 16 year old who's father just murdered her boyfriend in front of her.

 

 

~Bang

Based on what the boy's mother said, that she never heard of the girl or knew her son to be dating her.  Are we sure they were dating and not just hooking up?  The end result is horrible, we have a dead teenage boy with his entire life ahead of him.  

 

But if it was a hook-up, and she said she didn't know the guy cause she really didn't "know the guy" (just met, through a friend, etc.) it could definitely solidify a jury in favor of the father.  Which as of right now, until new evidence/statements are presented, would probably be cleared of wrong doing anyhow.

 

Regardless of what any of us think (innocent until proven guilty/defending home and family; guy killed unarmed teen and should burn, etc.)  I think we all agree that this was a tragedy and a horrible situation.  

[Bang]

I can't see how he's cleared of wrongdoing.

If the daughter didn't know him, (but brought him in for an anonymous hook up) and that convinced the father that he was an intruder, the kid was still unarmed and hiding, and apparently not threatening enough to start asking him questions before shooting him..presumably questions asked at gunpoint, which should give the gun holder the decidedly upper hand.

 

it is a tragedy, for sure. I have no idea what really went down, but based on what I've read (granted, this isn't much and could easily not present the entire story.) this guy is guilty.

 

~Bang

[Rocky21]

I don't know if any of you remember it (and I've searched but can't find it) but  I swear I read a story exactly like this in The Tailgate before.  

[Kilmer17]

Again I'll point out.

 

As a father, any person in my kids room that my kid says they do not know is threatening.  And it's my job in life to protect my kids.

 

If I have a gun, and he doesnt, that doesnt make him any less threatening.  And Im not using my gun as a tool to start a conversation about why he's in the room.  I'm going to protect my family.

[skinsmarydu]

Lots of good debate here.

I totally understand where Kilmer17 is coming from. The father was reacting to what his daughter told him, whether truthful or not.

I also "liked" the post that the teen boy should've surrendered & shut up. Police would've responded to some version of a domestic dispute and the coroner would've never been involved.

[Kosher Ham]

Some of these people just need to stay away from guns. I swear, they'll find justification to shoot an unarmed kid but if an athlete talks crap, he's a bad guy.

 

And a lot of kids don't think rational either.

 

 

Aren't you one of the people that hates Money Mayweather ???

 

The kid was 17, if it was the other way around and he killed the father, he would be tried as an adult.  One of the unfortunate flaws in our legal system.  

 

Not if the father walked in at the boys house. The girls father could even be killed by the boys father.

 

Again I'll point out.

 

As a father, any person in my kids room that my kid says they do not know is threatening.  And it's my job in life to protect my kids.

 

If I have a gun, and he doesnt, that doesnt make him any less threatening.  And Im not using my gun as a tool to start a conversation about why he's in the room.  I'm going to protect my family.

 

In honor of PK, What if they were 9 years old ?

 

You have to use responsible recognition of the situation. You certainly could shoot the intruder in the arm/shoulder...right ?

 

Side note PK, You can't just keep throwing out random what if situations. It weakens your position.

[Kilmer17]

Aren't you one of the people that hates Money Mayweather ???

 

 

Not if the father walked in at the boys house. The girls father could even be killed by the boys father.

 

 

In honor of PK, What if they were 9 years old ?

 

You have to use responsible recognition of the situation. You certainly could shoot the intruder in the arm/shoulder...right ?

 

Side note PK, You can't just keep throwing out random what if situations. It weakens your position.

I can see the difference between a 9 year old and a 17 year old.

 

As for where to shoot, no.  If Im shooting at a person in my house, Im going for the kill.

[Bang]

Again I'll point out.

 

As a father, any person in my kids room that my kid says they do not know is threatening.  And it's my job in life to protect my kids.

 

If I have a gun, and he doesnt, that doesnt make him any less threatening.  And Im not using my gun as a tool to start a conversation about why he's in the room.  I'm going to protect my family.

I get that, and i'd likely react the same way in a situation of my daughter having been attacked.

But in my mind if you shoot an unarmed kid after asking him questions, you're a murderer regardless of where he is.

By the account i read in the OP, I gather that dad did not react in a moment of life threatening or home protecting decision. His son found the kid hiding, (My brother is coming! Hide! It takes a little time to get under a bed so far that all that is seen is your legs. Plenty of time for a girl being attacked to escape.  and dad had time to get his gun, go in and confront him, and he began by asking questions.)

Daughter may have run out, i don't see where it says anything about where she was when dad came in.

If the daughter says "I don't know him" and he's standing there unarmed, shooting him is execution.

It went on long enough for the kid to get out from under the bed and become argumentative.

That means it didn't go

Dad: "Who is this!?"

Daughter: "I don't know!"

BLAM!

 

You've got him, call the cops. No need to kill him.

 

Now, if the daughter ran out and met dad in the hall and hysterically said "There's someone in my room!" dad is fully justified. That would seem to be an intruder... and at that point, the daughter needs to be brought up on charges if she indeed invited him in. 

(How did this info come about of her inviting him in? Obviously the dead kid can't verify it. I think knowing when that was said and who said it is pretty important, and leaves a big hole in how we are perceiving events.)

But the account I'm reading paints a different picture to me. I reserve the right to be wrong, though.

 

~Bang

[Larry]

I can see the difference between a 9 year old and a 17 year old.

As for where to shoot, no. If Im shooting at a person in my house, Im going for the kill.

That's certainly the way I think I would be.

Interesting trivia I heard, decades ago: According to the FBI's crime information database, for the then-most current year, of all the people shot, in the US, 92% of them survived.

But you're taught not to think of it that way. It's a deadly weapon. You don't even point it at someone unless you intend to kill. And as for pulling the trigger? It's kinda like Yoda. Kill. Or do not pull the trigger.

[Dan T.]

let's have a little exercise in context. 

 

Indulge me

 

all things remain equal from this incident, except replace the person who is shot with a 74 year old man, who happens to be Chuck Norris.

 

Would you then say that the victim of this shooting was an "unarmed old man"

 

that simple, no more no less?

 

 

I'd ask for his autograph.  And not shoot him, because according to legend, that would just make him angry.

[Kilmer17]

I also think at 2 in the AM, awoken by another child telling me theres someone in my daughters room, Im probably not going to be completely able to process anything other than "There's someone in "lisas" room".

 

I dont think I would be calm enough to evaluate much past "I dont know him". 

 

I know this board doesnt like the idea that the victim in these cases could have any resonsibility.  But I think it's got to be part of the convesation.  Just what the hell is that kid thinking about going into that girls house in the first place? 

[Larry]

I know this board doesnt like the idea that the victim in these cases could have any resonsibility.

Tell you what.

You quote me one person who says the victim has absolutely zero responsibility.

I'll quote someone saying that the person who pulled the trigger has none.

Let's see which one of us runs out of straw, I mean, quotes, first.

Just what the hell is that kid thinking about going into that girls house in the first place?

Uh, trying to figure out how to phrase this, ..........

[Kilmer17]

Tell you what.

You quote me one person who says the victim has absolutely zero responsibility.

I'll quote someone saying that the person who pulled the trigger has none.

Let's see which one of us runs out of straw, I mean, quotes, first.

Uh, trying to figure out how to phrase this, ..........

Ummm.  I offered niether claim.