skinny21 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We were 3-13 with him in our lineup. Well that's kind of a silly point to make, wouldn't you say? Seeing as how we were 3-13 with everyone on our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 But wait! There was already a good-bye santana moss thread!!! This cant be true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Why does this team insist on keeping guys that are past their primes? If this was NE, Pitt or any other great franchise, Moss would have been gone 3 years ago. He'd probably end up in NE if we cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I disagree. We may want Moss to be a number 3, which I would agree with, but I think his history and the talent on this team says he's a number two. I mean he was pretty much the second WR this year. Hankerson/Morgan started the games and Hankerson was on pace to have a better season, but he got hurt. If you're asking me for guys I trust, I'm throwing Moss's name right up there in terms of guys on this team. Lets not forget that he was the number 1 here before Garcon came. Not saying he did great in that role, but he did put up 1000 yards in a season on multiple occasions. The main reason for his decrease in yards per game is because of Shanny trying to get younger and trying to move him to slot where he's probably best, not because he doesn't have the talent. If we can have Moss as our number three though with a consistent threat at number 2 and Hankerson at number 4, then that turns a mediocre WR set into a really good one with only one addition. But otherwise, I'd rather have Garcon/Moss than Garcon/Hankerson, unless Hankerson shows improvement.  How do we know he still has the talent? Next year will be his 14th year in the league. There are very few receivers, who in their 14th years, were productive enough to get major playing time.  Santana's yards per game has dropped every year for the last 4 years.  2010 - 69.7 yards per game 2011 - 48.7 yards per game 2012 - 35.8 yards per game (454 offensive snaps) 2013 - 28.3 yards per game (550 offensive snaps) He played the 2nd most snaps out of all of our WR's last year. He's played more, yet his production still dropped.  Another area I find disturbing is his drop in production in clutch situations. In 2010 he caught 61% of his 3rd/4th down targets, but in 2011 his 2nd year as an outside WR in Shanahan's offense, his production fell to catching only 45% of his 3rd/4th down targets. In 2012, he was moved to the slot as a way to boost his effectiveness. With this move he was back to catching a productive 62% of his 3rd/4th down targets. But the following season, he again declined, and caught only 44% of his 3rd/4th down targets. It seems like the move to the slot extended his career by giving us an extra year of quality production.  But he's been declining. He's not who he used to be. You'd really rather give major snaps to him instead of developing youth by giving them playing time?  He should be the 4th WR on our team. But unfortunately we seriously lack WR talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 How do we know he still has the talent? Next year will be his 14th year in the league. There are very few receivers, who in their 14th years, were productive enough to get major playing time.  Santana's yards per game has dropped every year for the last 4 years. 2010 - 69.7 yards per game 2011 - 48.7 yards per game 2012 - 35.8 yards per game (454 offensive snaps) 2013 - 28.3 yards per game (550 offensive snaps) He played the 2nd most snaps out of all of our WR's last year. He's played more, yet his production still dropped. Interesting stats. I'd counter that with a reduced role in the offense with Shanny trying to go with younger WRs. For instance, consider the following list: 2010 - 145 targets and 93 receptions. 2011 - 95 targets and 46 receptions. 2012 - 67 targets and 44 receptions. 2013 - 79 targets and 42 receptions. Notice a slight uptick in the targets last year, which was probably due to the combination the increase in passing attempts, Hankerson going down and Cousins coming in and looking to him more (he had 9 targets against Atlanta for example). I think this complies with my statement about them wanting him to play a number 3 instead of a number 1 as he had in the past. Even if you define his role last year and this year as a number 2, it would explain the decrease in production from 2011 and before where he was the clear cut number 1. For comparison's sake consider Hankerson's targets: 2011 - 19 targets and 13 receptions. 2012 - 62 targets and 40 receptions. 2013 - 50 targets and 30 receptions. But I just wouldn't be so quick to rule him out. He isn't the same guy he was in 2005, but that doesn't mean he's not a quality guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Moss took a $2m+Â cut in salary last year and converted the money into 'attainable' incentives. Â Shanahan probably didn't want him to get the ball in the finish up to save $$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Moss has earned the right to finish out his career with the team. Â If he makes it, great. Â If he doesn't, no real harm. Â Course, the reason why he gets a chance is because the depth at WR is very poor. Â If we were deep at WR, maybe he doesn't get an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Why does this team insist on keeping guys that are past their primes? If this was NE, Pitt or any other great franchise, Moss would have been gone 3 years ago.  Agreed, he is past his prime. But who are you going to replace him with and how will you fill his leadership role. Unless we get a stable full of great young prospects, we'd be foolish to cut ties until he is replaced. We have 2 good receivers on this team, Garcon and Reed. Skill wise, Moss is still our number 2 receiver. Both Hankerson and Robinson are looking iffy at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs44 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 People want this team to win but they wont let go of the old retreads that have had us in the dumps for years. Moss isnt a pariah and he will never be a distraction but come on, you have people on here talking about him being good enough to be a 2nd string NFL WR. He's not good enough to be 2nd on the depth chart and he is not a leader so whats the point, if he was a leader he wouldnt let the poor play of his teammates dictate how he plays (See fumbles and dropped passes). Tana doesnt play with the energy or inspiration that Garcon does and quite frankly he's soft and too mild mannered.  Please get him out of here, not because he isnt a nice guy or a true Redskin but because its time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTR47 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Keep him on a one year deal. Why would we not? We have to pick up a atleast 2 other wr in the off season. We need some experiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Keep him on a one year deal. Why would we not? We have to pick up a atleast 2 other wr in the off season. We need some experiance. Nobody is more experienced at fumbling at the most inopportune times and bobbling balls into interceptions than Santana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I thought Nick Williams did well in his limited chances and has a chance to take Moss's spot. I think it speaks volumes that Mike Iron Mike actually brought him up from the practice squad to do more than return kicks.  I know its a stretch but is there any way Robinson could be a slot guy? I thought he got a look in the slot late in the year, if not, I remember him running a few short Mossesque routes. And looked strong.  Garcon leads by example and can be vocal if asked to be. Ike can lead the WRs. RG3 is a leader. I have no concerns about team leadership without Moss. He is not here for leadership. He being discussed because our WR corp is thin.  I just don't think he is going to be much of a difference maker going forward, I am burned out on the drops, balls through the hands, and fumbles. But I am happy to eat crow if he gets ft. in Grudens pass happy attack and bounces back from a meh year.   Moss has served us well often out of his optimal role and never complained, truly passionate about the game. We will never forget how he crushed Dallas and many other studly plays. But be it this year or the year after, the team will survive without Santana Moss.  Somehow some way, we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Nobody is more experienced at fumbling at the most inopportune times and bobbling balls into interceptions than Santana. Would like to see faster, taller and younger Receivers for RG3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins0721 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'd like to see a sure-handed, short yardage WR who can consistently get open on 3rd down when 2-6 yards are needed. Â Big, small, fast, slow...doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I don't see how signing him is a mistake, it's not guaranteeing a roster spot. Very few players have a guaranteed roster spot in the NFL, and mid-thirty year old receiver isn't one of them. Â But I know one thing, if he's our slot receiver in 2014....that means we didn't succeed in improving the WR position and our passing game will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I don't see how signing him is a mistake, it's not guaranteeing a roster spot. Very few players have a guaranteed roster spot in the NFL, and mid-thirty year old receiver isn't one of them. But I know one thing, if he's our slot receiver in 2014....that means we didn't succeed in improving the WR position and our passing game will suck. I agree with the first part, but not the second. A solid-good #2 would improve our wrs even if Moss is still in the slot. In that scenario we'd have three good options (Garçon, Reed and #2) ahead of Moss. Of course there's also the option of putting Robinson on the outside and slide Garçon or #2 to the slot at times, even if Moss is still technically our slot WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlldaySkins Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 I agree with the first part, but not the second. A solid-good #2 would improve our wrs even if Moss is still in the slot. In that scenario we'd have three good options (Garçon, Reed and #2) ahead of Moss. Of course there's also the option of putting Robinson on the outside and slide Garçon or #2 to the slot at times, even if Moss is still technically our slot WR.  I really think we should resign Moss and have him compete for a WR position. He won't be that high on the WR depth chart though. It will go something like this: 1. Garcon, 2. FA Pickup or Draft pick, 3. Hankerson, 4. Robinson, 5. Moss or Draft Pick, 6. Open Spot. That's my opinion anyways. I've been advocating to bring Moss back, but only in 4 or 5 WR sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I've let this lie for a while as I wanted to consider it after so much input. I still disagree with the idea. Our special teams were terrible. I don't see how we can have a WR 4-6 who doesn't help cover kicks/punts. I feel like having a WR who's not 1-3 and can't or doesn't play special teams is a luxury we can't afford. Love the guy, but to me he's yet another player we're letting stay 1-2 years too long because of who he is, not what he brings. For the record, and quite frankly, if he's one of our top 1-3 WR, we've got big problems at that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlldaySkins Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've let this lie for a while as I wanted to consider it after so much input. I still disagree with the idea. Our special teams were terrible. I don't see how we can have a WR 4-6 who doesn't help cover kicks/punts. I feel like having a WR who's not 1-3 and can't or doesn't play special teams is a luxury we can't afford. Love the guy, but to me he's yet another player we're letting stay 1-2 years too long because of who he is, not what he brings. For the record, and quite frankly, if he's one of our top 1-3 WR, we've got big problems at that position.   You're absolutely right BirdLives. The special teams factor is one thing I often overlook and we are in dire need of better special teams play. I say sign him to a non-guarantee contract and let him compete for a spot. He will probably sign elsewhere if we offer that, but it is time to move on. I just have a hard time saying goodbye   hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNHOPPER Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 He had 1 bad year and you all want him gone ! WOW people! Moss still can play. I guess the Panthers should get rid of Steve smith as well since hes getting old too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlldaySkins Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 He had 1 bad year and you all want him gone ! WOW people! Moss still can play. I guess the Panthers should get rid of Steve smith as well since hes getting old too. Â I don't necessarily want him gone, but are you comparing Moss (present day) to Steve Smith? Let's not kid ourselves, Steve Smith is a better receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I really think we should resign Moss and have him compete for a WR position. He won't be that high on the WR depth chart though. It will go something like this: 1. Garcon, 2. FA Pickup or Draft pick, 3. Hankerson, 4. Robinson, 5. Moss or Draft Pick, 6. Open Spot. That's my opinion anyways. I've been advocating to bring Moss back, but only in 4 or 5 WR sets.The thing is, you really want your depth able to play teams. Sure Moss can return punts, but I want a young hungry guy for the rest of the units. Bottom line - if Moss isn't the 3rd WR (maaaybe 4th) then I don't want him over a young player.Sorry, just saw your later post on the subject - disregard pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've let this lie for a while as I wanted to consider it after so much input. I still disagree with the idea. Our special teams were terrible. I don't see how we can have a WR 4-6 who doesn't help cover kicks/punts. I feel like having a WR who's not 1-3 and can't or doesn't play special teams is a luxury we can't afford. Love the guy, but to me he's yet another player we're letting stay 1-2 years too long because of who he is, not what he brings. For the record, and quite frankly, if he's one of our top 1-3 WR, we've got big problems at that position. If Moss is one of our top three wrs, yes, it could be a failure by the FO. To be clear though, their failure wouldn't be that they brought Moss back, but rather that they didn't find a suitable replacement. Even then, maybe they sign a #2 and draft a slot receiver to develop. If Moss bounces back and plays well in the slot though, then we've (successfully) gone the 'bandaid' route - which isn't (in and of itself) a failure at all. Do I want Moss to be our third? No, but I'm less worried about him at the third than if we improve our wrs in general - particularly the #2 spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You're absolutely right BirdLives. The special teams factor is one thing I often overlook and we are in dire need of better special teams play. I say sign him to a non-guarantee contract and let him compete for a spot. He will probably sign elsewhere if we offer that, but it is time to move on. I just have a hard time saying goodbye hahaha Base salaries on any contract in the NFL aren't guaranteed, only the signing bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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