nfltraderumors: Report: Redskins Discussing A Possible Extension With WR Santana Moss (M.E.T.)

[Thinking Skins]

I think his production was due more to circumstances than anything special that he did. I think he's a replacement-level WR at this point in his career. That doesn't detract from what he's done here since 2005, but his past should not be considered when the FO makes a decision on his future.

 

I would rather see his reps handed to Robinson at this point and use the draft and free agency to fill out the rest of the WRs. If someone supplants Robinson, that's fine too. We have a guy who has more speed and open-field abilities on the roster right now. Give him a shot to take the position and run with it. Robinson has flaws, of course, but he's not a finished product unlike Moss.

I disagree (with the part in bold). I think he is a really good WR, particularly with his knowing where to be and how to run his routes. you see QBs (Brunell, Campbell, Collins, McNabb, Grossman, Beck, GR3, Cousins) like to get him the ball. He's a reliable WR and they trust him. Even if his game has slipped, I don't think he was handed anything. I don't think he's the level of WR that his 2005 stats make you believe (1500 yards receiving). I think he's a legit WR in this league though.

I also don't want the job handed to Robinson/Williams/anybody else. Its not like Moss put up a year similar to Madeau Williams at FS that we were just begging for him to leave town. He had some drops that pssed me off (against the Vikings for example), but his body of work is good enough for me to say that he's good enough to come back. I hope Robinson or Williams can come in and take the job from him, but neither has done anything to impress me.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I disagree (with the part in bold). I think he is a really good WR, particularly with his knowing where to be and how to run his routes. you see QBs (Brunell, Campbell, Collins, McNabb, Grossman, Beck, GR3, Cousins) like to get him the ball. He's a reliable WR and they trust him. Even if his game has slipped, I don't think he was handed anything. I don't think he's the level of WR that his 2005 stats make you believe (1500 yards receiving). I think he's a legit WR in this league though.

I also don't want the job handed to Robinson/Williams/anybody else. Its not like Moss put up a year similar to Madeau Williams at FS that we were just begging for him to leave town. He had some drops that pssed me off (against the Vikings for example), but his body of work is good enough for me to say that he's good enough to come back. I hope Robinson or Williams can come in and take the job from him, but neither has done anything to impress me.

 

Let me be clear...I think Moss is currently a replacement-level WR in the NFL. His years with Brunell, Campbell, Collins, etc. are not really relevant to this conversation. I would agree with you that he was very good in many or all of those years.

 

Moss caught 42 passes on 80 targets (53%) last year. I would find it tough to believe that a league-average WR couldn't replicate or improve upon that. For comparison sake, Josh Morgan caught 20 of his 33 targets (61%) last year for just about the same yards per reception. They also ran similar, high-percentage routes (unlike Robinson who ran a lot of deeper routes and predictably caught a lower percentage of his passes).

 

It's no secret that most people believe Morgan had an awful season, so I'm not sure why we believe Moss was any more valuable.

[Thinking Skins]

Moss caught 42 passes on 80 targets (53%) last year. I would find it tough to believe that a league-average WR couldn't replicate or improve upon that. For comparison sake, Josh Morgan caught 20 of his 33 targets (61%) last year for just about the same yards per reception. They also ran similar, high-percentage routes (unlike Robinson who ran a lot of deeper routes and predictably caught a lower percentage of his passes).

 

It's no secret that most people believe Morgan had an awful season, so I'm not sure why we believe Moss was any more valuable.

The problem is sample size. I don't think Morgan is a horrible WR, but on 33 targets its hard to get any real conclusion. i mean, thats two targets a game. If a QB is 2/2 in his first two completions, it doesn't make him a HOF QB, or even mean he'll have a good game. We can speculate on how Morgan or any other WR would do in that role or with more opportunities but we know how Moss will. And I won't even say that Moss with the 53% number is a good stat, but I will say that that 53% number is not similar to Madeau Williams's numbers from 2012. Moss was on the field because even with his drops and his inaccuracies, he still had a chemistry and trust with RG3 and RG3 trusted him to be in the right spot at the right time, and trusted him to improvise and get open when he had to scramble.

Plus, with the talk about his stats last year which aren't as good as previous years, but its not like he's been putting up these low numbers forever, he was the number 1 here for like 6 or 7 years then took a back seat to Garcon and possibly Hankerson. But this is still a guy capable of playing in this league. Was last year an aberration where he can bounce back or is he on the decline? I think Allen's willing to let him prove his worth to the team and that's where I stand. If he gets beat out, so be it. But I don't think he's fallen off a cliff where he suddenly can't catch a cold or run past the line of scrimmage.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I don't know why you keep defending Moss at WR by saying he's not as bad as Williams was at S. I agree that he wasn't "bad" at all last year. I think he was fine. I think he was league-average which means that any other average WR could come up with the 2-3 catches per game that he did.

 

I would just prefer to use this as a time to shed some of the old and keep looking forward. I would rather see a younger guy who could continue to improve get those 2-3 catches per game rather than Moss in a last, downward-trending season. We tend to keep guys for a couple years after they produce and a new coaching staff is the perfect catalyst to let guys like Moss walk.

[Thinking Skins]

I don't know why you keep defending Moss at WR by saying he's not as bad as Williams was at S. I agree that he wasn't "bad" at all last year. I think he was fine. I think he was league-average which means that any other average WR could come up with the 2-3 catches per game that he did.

 

I would just prefer to use this as a time to shed some of the old and keep looking forward. I would rather see a younger guy who could continue to improve get those 2-3 catches per game rather than Moss in a last, downward-trending season. We tend to keep guys for a couple years after they produce and a new coaching staff is the perfect catalyst to let guys like Moss walk.

Well, I'm talking to you and also in reference to people who are discounting him as if he's garbage.

I agree about the average part. I think its a question of cost and development. We can probably get Moss for a good price and we know how well he fits in with the team and the locker room. I'd love for our younger players to come in and beat him out but I don't count on that based on our history. The alternative is going out and getting another average WR to come in and take his spot (Ted Ginn, Robert Meachem), or maybe you take a guy who you think can fill that role plus some (Brandon LaFell, Jerome Simpson, etc). The problem with these approaches is you're counting on the change being positive, and we don't know if it'll be that way. Definitely possible, but not certain by any means.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well, I'm talking to you and also in reference to people who are discounting him as if he's garbage.

I agree about the average part. I think its a question of cost and development. We can probably get Moss for a good price and we know how well he fits in with the team and the locker room. I'd love for our younger players to come in and beat him out but I don't count on that based on our history. The alternative is going out and getting another average WR to come in and take his spot (Ted Ginn, Robert Meachem), or maybe you take a guy who you think can fill that role plus some (Brandon LaFell, Jerome Simpson, etc). The problem with these approaches is you're counting on the change being positive, and we don't know if it'll be that way. Definitely possible, but not certain by any means.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think we just disagree on the direction we should go. I'm willing to risk a slight immediate decrease from the player at that position with the potential upside of developing someone for the long-term who is eventually better than Moss is right now. If we got someone like Ginn or Meachem, I think it would be to replace Morgan or Hankerson, not Moss.

[PerryMason]

But, but we need young players out there! Anthony Mix! How about the dude that was hot during Zorn's training camp? He was tall too.

Moss was productive, we don't even have WRs on the roster that are good enough to push him down the depth chart but now people are ready to let him go?

I don't get it.

 

Clearly you haven't been reading.  Nick Williams and Niles Paul would be Top 5 in the NFL in Receiving and TDs if we just let Moss go.  Duh.

[rskin72]

Well, I would rather try to re-sign Moss to a team friendly deal.....and concentrate on other areas such as ILB, DL, Secondary, Oline.....I am not against bringing in some WR competition, just not excited about spending $$$$ on some name FA WR, or making our second round pick in the draft a WR. 

 

I think Moss has more left in the tank...and he can play teams.  I know he can drop some balls at times, and that frustrates me as a fan....but he is a known quantity at this point, and think he worked well with Robert, especially in the '12 season.