nfltraderumors: Report: Redskins Discussing A Possible Extension With WR Santana Moss (M.E.T.)

[Rufus T Firefly]

If we go into training camp with Moss as the best PR option, count this new front office as a failure.

[fearlessNelms]

First of all, the guy has been nothing but class personified since he's been here. Secondly, nobody on the team is a harder worker than Moss and the drops bother him more than they bother anybody else and he will fix that...even at his advanced age. Thirdly, what you get out of him from a leadership standpoint and his locker room presence is irreplaceable...especially with Fletcher gone. If Moss wants to continue to play--and it appears evident that he does-- he needs to be in a Redskin uniform. There are no negatives in keeping him for what he'll cost and the bottom line is he still has plenty of life and solid play left in his legs. The man has endured some awful situations here and never complained once. He is valuable asset to the organization...period and I can even see him as our WR's coach sometime in the near future. 

 

With his class and his overall excellent play during his time here, he has earned the right to remain and retire as a Skin. The guy is a winner and aging or not, we need him...he will contribute positively on and off the field. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should absolutely sign Santana and keep him home.

[@DCGoldPants]

For years it was frustrating how we all think about the Dallas MNF game where Moss caught those bombs from Brunell. But I also remember Moss fumbling away a game in Green Bay. His drops and fumbles have only gotten worse in '13. Thank you for your time here....I'm sure that if you can still play. You'll get a vet min deal with the Browns. But for us....no thank you.

[skinfan2k]

too many drops, he plays lackadaisical and fumbles at the biggest moments. 

[Bubble Screen]

I am totally against this. Moss stinks. There is zero reason to bring the guy back.

[Bang]

Really? So we want a 35+ yr old WR returning punts? That's the best our scouting dept can afford us? We have the luxury of rostering a 4-6 spot WR who can marginally run the slot and return punts and that's it? If that's the case, it's amazing how low our expectations are.

Yes.

would you rather have the 20 somethings who ran away from the ball this year?

 

the last six month ought to take every bit of the age argument and make it choke in your throat.

 

What did you just see this year?

 

Here is reality: In the final 3 games Moss was our return man.

he avg'd over 7 yards per return. he returned 18 punts.

Prior to that all of our previous returners had only returned 15 combined among them in the previous 13 games.

They ran away from the ball, had no idea what to do with it, were terrified. Made mistake after mistake.

Moss took over and the mistakes stopped, and the ball started going back the other way a few yards after a punt.

We forced 74 punts last year. 18 in the final 3 games. (Moss caught them all. Fair catch or return.)

56 punts prior to that..  of the 3 other guys who returned punts last year, they caught 17 of them with only 3 fair catches. the rest hit the ground... usually with our guys terrified and running away from it. Clueless.

What do you see there worth developing?

 

As far as expectations go..  come on.. show me.

Beyond Garcon, WHAT is on our roster?

WHO is on the roster who you think is so hot and hungry?

 

 

 

Clue,, there are none who exist.

and even if we wanted to , we are not going to find ourselves with more than one or two more. We don't have the picks, and talented young receivers don't just fall out of the trees.

Where are we going to get these guys this offseason?

 

 

We need a #2. No question. A starter. Now. A STARTER.. meaning a guy who can come in right now and be our #2.

Do you still think that's Morgan? Is he suddenly going to get a LOT better?

Beyond that, what is it you see on this roster so worthy of all your expectations?

Nick Williams in that slot,, you see anything that leads you to believe he's anything?

You seem to think that come June we'll have all these hotshot young receivers that will vie for these positions.

 

Where do you see them coming from? They're not here now.

right now we have ONE starter... an underperforming 2..  Josh Morgan is not a #2 anywhere in the league, but here he is listed as our starter.

..and then we have an annually injured under-achiever who plays scared, a totally raw 3rd year guy who has yet to learn to run anything but a go route or a slant, and Nick williams..

 

Low expectations you say. I say you're fantasizing and pretending you've got something here, and you don't./ I say you're fantasizing in thinking there will be a lot of turnover in that rank, and if there IS you seem to think it will all just mesh perfectly here in it's first year.

How about you can tell me who these hotshots are, and where we're going to get them.

 

As far as punt returns go.. I always think you should be on the lookout for a new one. always. It should rarely be locked down as a position. It's a break-into-the-league position, a position a young raw player can earn his chops.

But they don't exist here. The young players we tried to allow this luxury totally blew it. They failed.

So until someone shows any better, why is it you are just ready to go back to guys who proved to you they don't know how to return, when to return, or even when to catch the ball?

 

 

 

~Bang

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I agree that Nick Williams is camp fodder. So you have 3 WRs right now. Garcon is a #1 ... a healthy Hankerson is a #3/4 ... and Robinson is a #4/5 

 

Moss gives you a chance to keep a slot guy around while you ease into someone younger. Many on here have thrown out Tevin Reese or Dri Archer in the 5th-7th rounds as slot options, but would anyone expect them to step in immediately and start? I wouldn't! Getting Moss back allows us to draft someone in those rounds and groom into the position for 2015 and beyond.

 

What signing Moss would tell me is we aren't going WR in FA and we are likely to use our 2nd or 3rd on a #2 WR candidate and a 5th 6th or 7th on a slot guy to groom, which excited me ... that's what I think we should be doing anyway. No big name, high price WR free agents.

[Bang]

A (consistently)  healthy Hankerson seems a pipe dream.

Hope i'm wrong.

 

~Bang

[Est.1974]

I was ready to move on from Moss, but in reality we are so thin at WR it may just be necessary to bring him back for 2014.

 

I don't like the idea of overpaying for a #2 in FA, plus the draft brings no guarantees for 2014 production.

[Birdlives]

Most receivers don't run down on coverage units. Sadly he's still one of our more reliable receivers. No one is asking for him to be a starter. #5 or even #6 on the depth chart and the vet minimum is chump change. Of course he will have to fight it out and give competition to younger guys brought in. BTW, he can still return punts and would provide great leadership for the transition to a younger receiving corps. Make no mistake we are not going to the Super Bowl next season.

Sorry, but if you're 4+ on most teams depth charts you're covering kicks regardless of position. If you can't, you need to go collect stamps or start marketing your memorabilia on eBay. Only here do we continue to sign guys who can't play but did something valuable in the past. This is a business and a competition and we're one of the few teams in the league that doesn't treat it as such. There's no room on any team for legacy contracts and re-signing Moss is just that. I'd rather see him play for someone else than play here. If he's signed and somehow makes this team then the FO we now have in place is just as good as Vinnie Cerrato.

[skinny21]

If signing Moss because Robinson's spot isn't "Guaranteed" then he is putting a young developing player at risk, as I said.

And if Moss is paid more than the minimum, then his contract makes his spot much more "guaranteed" than Robinson or Hankerson.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter how big Moss' contract if there's not guaranteed money then there's no financial incentive to keep him over anyone else.

[Bang]

Sorry, but if you're 4+ on most teams depth charts you're covering kicks regardless of position. If you can't, you need to go collect stamps or start marketing your memorabilia on eBay. Only here do we continue to sign guys who can't play but did something valuable in the past. This is a business and a competition and we're one of the few teams in the league that doesn't treat it as such. There's no room on any team for legacy contracts and re-signing Moss is just that. I'd rather see him play for someone else than play here. If he's signed and somehow makes this team then the FO we now have in place is just as good as Vinnie Cerrato.

lol "only did something valuable in the past'

 

yeah, like december.

In case you missed all that punt return info I laid down above, give it a look over.

in 3 games Moss caught more punts than the previous 3 guys did in 13 games combined.

Right now he is far and away the best punt returner we have on the roster, and it's not even debatable.

Oh, but he can't do anything anymore.

 

 

4+ deep on our depth chart?

You see 4 receivers here?

I see one. And then i see scrubs and question marks.

 

~Bang

[Birdlives]

Yes.

would you rather have the 20 somethings who ran away from the ball this year?

 

the last six month ought to take every bit of the age argument and make it choke in your throat.

 

What did you just see this year?

 

Here is reality: In the final 3 games Moss was our return man.

he avg'd over 7 yards per return. he returned 18 punts.

Prior to that all of our previous returners had only returned 15 combined among them in the previous 13 games.

They ran away from the ball, had no idea what to do with it, were terrified. Made mistake after mistake.

Moss took over and the mistakes stopped, and the ball started going back the other way a few yards after a punt.

We forced 74 punts last year. 18 in the final 3 games. (Moss caught them all. Fair catch or return.)

56 punts prior to that..  of the 3 other guys who returned punts last year, they caught 17 of them with only 3 fair catches. the rest hit the ground... usually with our guys terrified and running away from it. Clueless.

What do you see there worth developing?

 

As far as expectations go..  come on.. show me.

Beyond Garcon, WHAT is on our roster?

WHO is on the roster who you think is so hot and hungry?

 

 

 

Clue,, there are none who exist.

and even if we wanted to , we are not going to find ourselves with more than one or two more. We don't have the picks, and talented young receivers don't just fall out of the trees.

Where are we going to get these guys this offseason?

 

 

We need a #2. No question. A starter. Now. A STARTER.. meaning a guy who can come in right now and be our #2.

Do you still think that's Morgan? Is he suddenly going to get a LOT better?

Beyond that, what is it you see on this roster so worthy of all your expectations?

Nick Williams in that slot,, you see anything that leads you to believe he's anything?

You seem to think that come June we'll have all these hotshot young receivers that will vie for these positions.

 

Where do you see them coming from? They're not here now.

right now we have ONE starter... an underperforming 2..  Josh Morgan is not a #2 anywhere in the league, but here he is listed as our starter.

..and then we have an annually injured under-achiever who plays scared, a totally raw 3rd year guy who has yet to learn to run anything but a go route or a slant, and Nick williams..

 

Low expectations you say. I say you're fantasizing and pretending you've got something here, and you don't./ I say you're fantasizing in thinking there will be a lot of turnover in that rank, and if there IS you seem to think it will all just mesh perfectly here in it's first year.

How about you can tell me who these hotshots are, and where we're going to get them.

 

As far as punt returns go.. I always think you should be on the lookout for a new one. always. It should rarely be locked down as a position. It's a break-into-the-league position, a position a young raw player can earn his chops.

But they don't exist here. The young players we tried to allow this luxury totally blew it. They failed.

So until someone shows any better, why is it you are just ready to go back to guys who proved to you they don't know how to return, when to return, or even when to catch the ball?

 

 

 

~Bang

You're really good at putting words in people's mouths. I never once pointed to someone on the roster who can replace Moss. What we need is to go give our back of the roster positions to new young players. It's our front office's job to go find those people. Stop with all the "where are the new guys going to come from?" Teams around this league are constantly finding guys to play special teams who can not only return kicks but also play their positions and cover kicks. You act like these guys are once in a lifetime talents. Why give a roster spot to a guy who's another year older with the philosophy of "well, we don't have anyone better right now so why not?" Winning teams around the league draft guys in the 6-7 rounds and get UDFA players who fill those needs, but we need to get a 35+ year old receiver to be WR #5 and return punts because why? Oh, there's no one currently on the roster who can do it? Really?

lol "only did something valuable in the past' yeah, like december.In case you missed all that punt return info I laid down above, give it a look over.in 3 games Moss caught more punts than the previous 3 guys did in 13 games combined.Right now he is far and away the best punt returner we have on the roster, and it's not even debatable.Oh, but he can't do anything anymore.  4+ deep on our depth chart?You see 4 receivers here?I see one. And then i see scrubs and question marks. ~Bang

And those are the only guys we're allowed to have on our roster in 2014? What a joke!

[Bang]

You're really good at putting words in people's mouths.

i never once pointed to someone on the roster who can replace Moss. What we need is to go give our back of the roster positions to new young players. It's our front office's job to go find those people.

I'm sorry, but i never put a single word in your mouth. In fact, i asked you specifically to tell me WHO these young players are and WHERE we will get them.

It's the front office's job.. OK, so.. where are they coming from?

are you saying we should use this back end spot on undrafted rookies? How many of our receivers should come to us like this? We have 1 bona-fide receiver. That's it. everyone else is replaceable.

the only one of the group who has proven anything besides garcon is Moss, and in december he showed that he can be valuable in the punt game.

We have 6 picks coming up. How many do you think they will use on receivers?

How many young receivers will be out on the free agent market?

How many on the waiver wires?

It's the FOs job to find them, but they do not have thwe ability to find everything we need in one offseason.

I am not putting words in your mouth. i am asking you for your words.

Who, and where?

 

Stop with all the "where are the new guys going to come from?" Teams around this league are constantly finding guys to play special teams who can not only return kicks but also play their positions and cover kicks. You act like these guys are once in a lifetime talents.

Uh, no, this is completely untrue. for one, I specifically said in this thread that you must constantly be on the lookout for returners. I said this SPECIFICALLY.

you say "Stop with the where are they going to come from"

OK, SO WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THEM?

These teams you speak of, they get these guys late in drafts, they use picks on them. this is where they find young guys to return kicks, etc.

OK, we have 6 picks.

How many are you planning on using for this?

How much of our team do you think can be made up from undrafted rookies?

these are valid questions. If you're going to criticize, you have to come with more than 'it's the FOs job to answer this"... well, their answer is to give Moss an extension.

 

Why give a roster spot to a guy who's another year older with the philosophy of "well, we don't have anyone better right now so why not?"

No one is being given any roster spots. And of course, there is no one better right now. So until you find one, your comment is senseless.

 

Winning teams around the league draft guys in the 6-7 rounds and get UDFA players who fill those needs, but we need to get a 35+ year old receiver to be WR #5 and return punts because why? Oh, there's no one currently on the roster who can do it? Really?

And those are the only guys we're allowed to have on our roster in 2014? What a joke!

We have six picks. We have about 14 needs. However, with Moss here, #4 or $5WR and Punt returner are not among them.

And in 2015 you have more options.

~Bang

[Birdlives]

I'm sorry, but i never put a single word in your mouth. In fact, i asked you specifically to tell me WHO these young players are and WHERE we will get them.It's the front office's job.. OK, so.. where are they coming from?are you saying we should use this back end spot on undrafted rookies? How many of our receivers should come to us like this? We have 1 bona-fide receiver. That's it. everyone else is replaceable.the only one of the group who has proven anything besides garcon is Moss, and in december he showed that he can be valuable in the punt game.We have 6 picks coming up. How many do you think they will use on receivers?How many young receivers will be out on the free agent market?How many on the waiver wires?It's the FOs job to find them, but they do not have thwe ability to find everything we need in one offseason.I am not putting words in your mouth. i am asking you for your words.Who, and where? Uh, no, this is completely untrue. for one, I specifically said in this thread that you must constantly be on the lookout for returners. I said this SPECIFICALLY.you say "Stop with the where are they going to come from"OK, SO WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THEM?These teams you speak of, they get these guys late in drafts, they use picks on them. this is where they find young guys to return kicks, etc.OK, we have 6 picks.How many are you planning on using for this?these are valid questions. If you're going to criticize, you have to come with more than 'it's the FOs job to answer this"... well, their answer is to give Moss an extension. No one is being given any roster spots. And of course, there is no one better right now. So until you find one, your comment is senseless. We have six picks. We have about 14 needs. However, with Moss here, #4 or $5WR and Punt returner are not among them.And in 2015 you have more options.~Bang

I'd use 1 pick to replace Moss, or sign an UDFA to take that spot. You want a prospectus on potential UDFA punt returners? Hit up on the comprehensive data base thread. I stand by what I said. Signing Moss by the standard of, we'll he wasn't that bad and there's no one on the 2013 roster who can do better is a poor standard. It's not my job to find the new players, it's the teams job, so I'm not going to give you an answer other than the one I gave in the first place. We have roster spots open and needs? Fine, go get players who are young and hungry and stop paying old guys who are another year older. Moss didn't crap the bed returning punts last year? That's our standard for that spot? And please stop with the we only have x number of picks. Other organizations in this league routinely turn over half their rosters and field competitive teams, but we can't? It's amazing how low our standards have become as a fan base.

[Bang]

Offering Moss a modest contract is not upsetting any apple carts.

last year we relied late picks and UDFAs as kick returners it was a disaster of historic proportion.

I'm all for finding young players. But insurance is cheap.

~Bang

[Birdlives]

Offering Moss a modest contract is not upsetting any apple carts.last year we relied late picks and UDFAs as kick returners it was a disaster of historic proportion.I'm all for finding young players. But insurance is cheap.~Bang

I would argue the perception of signing Moss alone is not worth the trouble. It says to other players/teams we're satisfied with being ok, not exceptional and that we have a status quo that we find acceptable. That status quo is 3-13. We're already talking to half our unsigned defense that also crapped the bed last year. Not sure how that makes us better unless you fully buy into the narrative that Shanny alone was the whole problem. First we retain Haslett, now we're signing the same players as last year that lead to 3-13; I'm not liking this offseason at all.

[rumplestilskin]

Well by the sounds of it the armchair GM's differ on whether or not Moss should stay. The fact that the real GM is considering him staying should speak volumes on Moss's remaining value. Moss, I am sure will be told he will have to win the job in camp. For those who want a young guy to get his chance you better hope he brings his A game in training camp because Santana will. My guess is by then we will have found our number 2 through FA with a guy like Edelman. That leaves us with Garcon, Edelman, Moss, Robinson, Malcolm Kelly... I mean Leonard Hankerson.

As mentioned by many others, Moss can and will adequately return punts short of us signing a better guy like Mcluster. Once we sign our 4 defensive starters in RAK, Baker, Hall and Riley we wont have the cash for both an Edelman type and a punt return ace. That will have to come in the draft and whoever that is they can take the place of Nick Williams who has shown little.

Signing moss does more for the team as a bridge signing because it is inexpensive insurance that will cover two positions and provide leadership. I am sure RG3 has an opinion in this matter also and wants Moss back.

[KuNiT21]

If Moss doesn't sign for peanuts, there is no sense keeping him on this roster.  It's funny we still have people lobbying to have a 35yr old WR returning our punts?  When has Santana Moss been a threat returning punts for the Redskins?  It's 2014, not 2005.  We need to move on from situations like this just like others team do.  It's absolutely embarrassing to this franchise every single year when we have the likes of Moss/Niles Paul returning kicks for us.  Do you see Reggie Wayne or Tony G returning kickoffs?  Team needs to move on from situations like this, the NFL is a business.

[Bang]

I would argue the perception of signing Moss alone is not worth the trouble. It says to other players/teams we're satisfied with being ok, not exceptional and that we have a status quo that we find acceptable. That status quote is 3-13. We're already talking to half our unsigned defense that also crapped the bed last year. Not sure how that makes us better unless you fully buy into the narrative that Shanny alone was the whole problem. First we retain Haslett, now we're signing the same players as last year that lead to 3-13; I'm not liking this offseason at all.

And LEON is getting FATTER!!!

sorry, with your avatar, i couldn't resist.

~Bang

[SkinsFanCU07]

Really would only be interested in him at a Vet Minimum deal. His constant drops last year were a bummer to say the least.

 

People need to understand that we need bodies in training camp, there's always the chance he gets brought in and then released with the emergence of some of the younger guys (Nick Williams?).

 

You can't deny that Santana has brought us lots of great memories in B&G but if it's time for us to cut ties with him to give an opportunity to some of the younger guys then I'd have no problem with the move.

[clarkskin]

I like all this talk of young developmental guys.  We don't have any.  It makes sense to bring Moss into camp and let him compete.  Everyone talks about signing players to be punt returners and whatnot, but why didn't we have any last year?  They don't just grow on trees. 

Hankerson will be a stretch to be fully healthy next year, and even if he is he has not shown much in the way of being a threat.  I love Robinson's speed, but not much else.  Nick Williams?  Please...he didn't step up at all when given the opportunity. 

So where is all this young talent?  We haven't "developed" a wideout in over 20 years that I can think of.  Free agency wideouts are nearly always a huge waste of money. 

[Bang]

I'd say Aldrick Robinson is a young developmental guy.

They just gave him a contract extension, and they say receivers see their biggest development in the third year. So we can hope for that)

So you have one entrenched starter in Garcon, one young developing guy in Robinson, and one vet in Moss. That leaves about 4 roster spots for other receivers.

I think I trust this FO.

~Bang

[U C S D SkinsFan]

I rather take a chance on a 5th round rookie than resign Moss.  Let's find a Kenny Stills in this years later rounds.  I guess if Moss' contract is vet minimum or completely incentive laden we can bring him to camp, it's fine, but he's just so old and his hands have become concrete blocks.  This upcoming year is going to be painful, might as well bring in a bunch of young guys and pray one of them sticks.  

[elkabong82]

He'll likely be a WR4/5 and also a return man if he makes the final 53. No issues on a cheap contract.