Adam Schefter: Dan Snyder chose Malcolm(b) Kelly over Jamaal Charles

[elkabong82]

It will because "full control" was defined that Shanahan's contract prevented Snyder from interfering. A copy of the contract would answer that perfectly.

 

Do you have another definition of "full control"?

 

I have yet to see a source that says Shanahan's contract prevented Snyder from interfering.

 

I was looking for a source that says Shanahan's contract prevents Snyder from interfering.  That was the only definition anyone provided for "full control."

 

I'm always open to other definitions.

 

 

 

I don't really know what your stance is yet.  What is your definition of "full control"?

 

Maybe this will help:

 

Hypothetical question:  If Snyder wanted Player X and Shanahan wanted Player Y and they both refuse to budge, who wins?

 

Ay caramba! The very link I provided had Schefter directly saying Shanny had final say on ALL football matters. This means that Snyder could not have forced McNabb on him. Shanny had full control over football decisions the past 4 years, just accept it and move on already, or start talking about the actual thread topic.

 

To your question: Shanahan wins, anyone that suggests otherwise is ignorant.

[MartinC]

It will because "full control" was defined that Shanahan's contract prevented Snyder from interfering. A copy of the contract would answer that perfectly.

Amazingly enough no one on ES seems to have access to a copy of that contract. Plenty of people in this thread though have given you good definitions of what full control means in this context - you can choose to believe them or not.

In a post earlier you talked though not about the contract - you accepted that Shanny had final say over Allen so you seem to know what final say means - and talked/asked about the relationship between Shanny and Snyder. Here us what you said below.

 

Yes, he is Executive VP, like Bruce Allen, and he has final say over Bruce Allen.  I'm not really interested in his relationship with Bruce Allen.  I'm talking about his relationship with Snyder.

Your not going to be find that relationship described in a contract anymore than you will find the state of a marriage described in a marriage license. if Shanny's contract says full control mans no interfering that's not going to prove Snyder still did not interfere.

I personally don't be believe Snyder did interfere - Shanny had the helm and got what he wanted. Your free to draw your own conclusions.

[Skinsinparadise]

Ay caramba! The very link I provided had Schefter directly saying Shanny had final say on ALL football matters. This means that Snyder could not have forced McNabb on him. Shanny had full control over football decisions the past 4 years, just accept it and move on already, or start talking about the actual thread topic.

 

To your question: Shanahan wins, anyone that suggests otherwise is ignorant.

 

Schefter on 980 not that long ago suggested this:  McNabb maybe wasn't Shanny's original idea but he was on board once suggested. As to the other favorite Shanny leak that he didn't want RG3, Schefter contradicted that big time, saying he was big time into that trade.

 

Am waiting for Shanny's next leaks to be Danny suggested Keith Burns for special teams coach and it was Danny who pushed the J. Brown trade.  How about Shanny wanted to trade up for Cam but Dan told him no, he believes in Rex and Beck.    Maybe Dan wanted Leribeus while Shanny was pounding the table for Russell Wilson.   Dan signed Josh Morgan to a 5 year year contract, while Shanny was kicking and screaming against it.

[grego]

I'm talking about the contract, not meddling.  I never said anything about meddling, except that someone said Schefter said there was an anti-meddling clause in Shanahan's contract.

 

Earlier in the thread, some were saying that Snyder couldn't have pushed McNabb on Shanahan because Shanahan's contract prevented it.  My point is that I have never seen that about the contract.

 

It's always been about the contract.  I don't care about whether or not Snyder meddled.  I care about whether the contract prevents meddling.  You are reading more into this than is actually there.

 

 

i think we're talking about the same thing. 

 

i'm saying what ive been saying all along- that if you think shanny didnt have 'final say' all over that contract, you are naive. (i'm not saying that in a disparaging way- i don't believe you are naive. i just think there is no way in hell shanahan agrees to coach the team without full control. it would have been the first thing discussed- right after "hello, mike, this is dan snyder"......)

[grego]

Schefter on 980 not that long ago suggested this:  McNabb maybe wasn't Shanny's original idea but he was on board once suggested. As to the other favorite Shanny leak that he didn't want RG3, Schefter contradicted that big time, saying he was big time into that trade.

 

Am waiting for Shanny's next leaks to be Danny suggested Keith Burns for special teams coach and it was Danny who pushed the J. Brown trade.  How about Shanny wanted to trade up for Cam but Dan told him no, he believes in Rex and Beck.    Maybe Dan wanted Leribeus while Shanny was pounding the table for Russell Wilson.   Dan signed Josh Morgan to a 5 year year contract, while Shanny was kicking and screaming against it.

 

schefters next nugget will be that mike had peyton manning locked up to come here, but danny pushed for griffin, so mike relented. nice guy that he is, and all. 

[Burgold]

i think we're talking about the same thing. 

 

i'm saying what ive been saying all along- that if you think shanny didnt have 'final say' all over that contract, you are naive. (i'm not saying that in a disparaging way- i don't believe you are naive. i just think there is no way in hell shanahan agrees to coach the team without full control. it would have been the first thing discussed- right after "hello, mike, this is dan snyder"......)

 

Not to mention in just about every presser Shanny beat his chest and proclaimed the buck stops with me and I have full control

[Skinsinparadise]

Not to mention in just about every presser Shanny beat his chest and proclaimed the buck stops with me and I have full control

 

 

Yep.  And since when is Shanny defined as a meek/pushover.  Isn't the whole rap on him and some of it is self proclaimed that he is a control freak and if you get in his way he will steamroll you.  Laconfora said if Shanny didn't want McNabb it would have come out at the time.  John Keim makes a good point which is these leaks conveniently come out when its self serving.  When RG3 was on fire as a rookie, not a word about Shanny not wanting him, he was hugging him on the sideline like he was his kid.   Last season he struggles for a bit, Tannehill gets hot -- then it becomes Tannehill was the guy Shanny wanted all along.    

[Rocky21]

Am waiting for Shanny's next leaks to be Danny suggested Keith Burns for special teams coach and it was Danny who pushed the J. Brown trade.  How about Shanny wanted to trade up for Cam but Dan told him no, he believes in Rex and Beck.    Maybe Dan wanted Leribeus while Shanny was pounding the table for Russell Wilson.   Dan signed Josh Morgan to a 5 year year contract, while Shanny was kicking and screaming against it.

 Good one.    

[Commander -JB-]

I hate Dan Snyder.

[HTTR47]

How good would Kelly of been on onther team....

[Die Hard]

Schefter is now reporting that Dan Snyder once slept with a fat chick.

[grego]

bill romonowski on the junkies now claiming his boy shanny didint win cuz dan had dinner with griffin. 

 

hilarious.

 

"didnt elway have dinner with pat bowlen"?, he was asked. "yeah, but....."

 

the same pat bowlen that fired mike. the same mike shanahan who ran "everything" in denver. just like he did here. with similar results.

 

whose fault was it then?

[Slateman]

Shanahan took Gomes over Richard Sherman. What's your point?

[Cyclops]

Can we just change this to Per Adam Schefter: (Insert satirical headline here) thread?

 

Per Adam Schefter: Dan Snyder wanted Robert to throw left handed after seeing it in warmups

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Per Adam Schefter: Snyder forced Shanahan to hire his son; asked if daughters also had any experience

[Mad Mike]

I so wanted Jordi Nelson in that draft. In my eyes he was close to a sure thing but to many he lacked the "sizzle".  No, he's not flashy  and he's not the fastest guy on the field. All he does is catch balls and make plays.

 

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Portis was involved in the decision. You know he didn't want the competition.

[Darth Tater]

How good would Kelly of been on onther team....

Probably not much better.  The couple of times he was healthy, he was pretty good here.  Main problem seemed to be centered around his health (though our mismanagement of the situation might have made it worse) and a bad relationship with Shanny.

[Sea Bass]

Ay caramba! The very link I provided had Schefter directly saying Shanny had final say on ALL football matters. This means that Snyder could not have forced McNabb on him. Shanny had full control over football decisions the past 4 years, just accept it and move on already, or start talking about the actual thread topic.

 

To your question: Shanahan wins, anyone that suggests otherwise is ignorant.

 

Words have meanings in the context they are given.

 

Here is your quote:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4799532

 

Mike Shanahan signed a five-year contract to become executive vice president and head coach for the Washington Redskins.Under the terms of the new deal, Shanahan will team with Redskins executive vice president and general manager Bruce Allen, but ...

 

So Shanahan will be Executive VP and he will team with the other Executive VP, Bruce Allen.  Bruce Allen was GM.

 

Now there is a caveat, indicated by the word "but."

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/but

 

¹but

conjunction \ˈbət\

—used to introduce a statement that adds something to a previous statement and usually contrasts with it in some way

 

This is the previous statement

 

Shanahan will team with Redskins executive vice president and general manager Bruce Allen

 

This is what is added to that statement

 

but Shanahan will have the ultimate authority on football decisions.

 

 

So you have a team of Bruce Allen and Shanahan.  That implies that they both have equal say.  They are both Executive VP and form a team.  That is why there is another statement attached with the conjuction "but."

 

The sentence after "but" is clarifying the team relationship.  It's saying: Yes Bruce Allen and Shanahan are a team, but they don't have equal say.  Shanahan has final say over Bruce Allen.

 

Your quote is speaking strictly about the relationship between Shanahan and Bruce Allen: It's a team, but Shanahan has the final say in the context of the team relationship between Bruce Allen and Shanahan.

 

Here's how you interpret the quote:

 

"See.  It says the words ultimate authority. Therefore it means Shanahan is above Snyder"

 

Despite the fact that the quote makes no mention of Snyder, and it gives Shanahan the title of Vice President.

 

Earlier, someone astutely asked "If Shanahan is Executive Vice President, who is President?"

 

The answer was Snyder.

 

There is nothing in your quote that even suggests that VP Shanahan is above Owner Snyder.  It doesn't mention Snyder at all.  It only mentions Bruce Allen.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vice%20president

vice presidentnoun

: a person whose rank is just below that of the president of a country, business, etc.

 

 

What kind of organization structure has 2 Vice Presidents, and one of them is above the Owner?  Mike Holmgren was actually given the title of President of the Cleveland Browns, and he still answered to the Owner.  If Shanahan was the boss of Snyder, why couldn't he at least have the title of President to show he was above Vice President Bruce Allen?

 

Here is the answer:

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/25/5343964/nfl-power-structures-who-really-runs-a-team

 

Mike Shanahan was the primary power broker last year, with him and GM Bruce Allen reporting directly to owner Daniel Snyder, who is a hands on owner;

 

Here is the structure:

 

1. Owner - Dan Snyder (President)

2a. Vice President - Mike Shanahan

2b. Vice President - Bruce Allen

 

Not only was Shanahan not above Snyder in the structure, but he was at the same level as Bruce Allen - Executive VP.  He wasn't even President, like Holmgren and many others.  He was Vice President.  He was barely above Bruce Allen in the power structure, and certainly not above Snyder.

 

"Primary power broker" is a very strong term.  It's similar to "ultimate authority" or "final say."  As you see from the rest of the quote, it doesn't imply Shanahan is the boss of Snyder.  It only implies he is the de facto GM, in personnel matters.  Using strong terms to describe Shanahan's power doesn't prove he is above Snyder.

 

You took 2 words ("ultimate authority") out of context and extrapolated them to prove your point.  When those 2 words, in the context they were given, actually suggested the opposite.

 

Here's how you would interpret the other quote:  "See. It says primary power broker.  That means Shanahan is above Snyder."

 

That would ignore the part where it says he reports to Snyder.

 

I'm not sure I can make it any clearer than this.

 

I gave you a quote that says Snyder was above Shanahan.  If you have a quote that says Shanahan was above Snyder, I am always open to reading it.  In fact, I spent a couple pages actively searching for that quote.

[Rodriggo]

This team picked Laron Landry over Adrian Peterson in 2007 b/c it felt comfortable with Clinton Portis.

 

Let that one simmer.

 

They picked another safety when they already had Sean Taylor.

[Cyclops]

This team picked Laron Landry over Adrian Peterson in 2007 b/c it felt comfortable with Clinton Portis.

 

Let that one simmer.

 

They picked another safety when they already had Sean Taylor.

Peterson also had injury concerns. Clinton was averaging close to 5 yards a carry for nearly 4 years. 2006 was the year Portis got hurt and Betts had a good season that year. RB was not a need at the time. SS was a need. At least we wernt the Raiders that year picking Jamarcus over Calvin Johnson 

[Rodriggo]

Huge mistake by the Skins.

 

Rationalize it all you want, they passed on a Hall of Fame RB for, at very best, a middle of the road safety all for the promise of Portis which to be honest never even lived up to the value of the Champ Bailey trade.

 

Every team makes mistakes in the draft but the Skins have made some doozies.

[daveakl]

Sea Bass:

 

I want to make sure I understand your position fully before moving forward with this.

 

Are you saying that you believe that Mike and Bruce had equal positions in terms of title (Vice President) but the with regards to football decisions Bruce had ultimate authority.  Both Bruce and Mike still had to answer to the President Dan Snyder who could overrule them at anytime and force his will on Bruce and Mike?

[grego]

sea bass, 

 

i'm not sure what your position exactly is or where youre trying to go with it, but i am sure that mike shanahan does not agree to coach the washington redskins without having complete control over the roster. 

 

mike knew dan wanted him to coach the team and used it to his advantage, to his credit. at that time, mike had a good reputation,( despite his lack of success when he was given more control in denver.)

 

someone like jim zorn, for example, does not have that leverage. he doesnt have a track record. he has zero leverage. but, mike did. 

 

i say this because i'm not sure you understand the clout that mike shanahan had just a few years ago, particularly in dans eyes, and what that meant as far as his role in the organization.

 

mike got everything he wanted. its that simple. 

[Cyclops]

Huge mistake by the Skins.

 

Rationalize it all you want, they passed on a Hall of Fame RB for, at very best, a middle of the road safety all for the promise of Portis which to be honest never even lived up to the value of the Champ Bailey trade.

 

Every team makes mistakes in the draft but the Skins have made some doozies.

 

There is no rationalization needed here. CP had nearly 1400 yard seasons 4 years in a row with only minor injury problems prior to the 07 draft. Ladell Betts had also shown to be a good back. There was ZERO need for a RB at the time. You could play the game with all teams for any HoF player. Laron was supposed to be the last piece for the best secondary in the league. After Seans death Laron had to play the SAF position. Something where he does not excel. Vinny and Gibbs actually had a very good plan for the secondary but Sean was the glue that held it all together.

[Rodriggo]

Vinny and Gibbs actually had a very good plan for the secondary but Sean was the glue that held it all together.

 

Laron Landry was a disasterous pick, with or without Sean Taylor.

 

Your stats on Portis are even more telling. Would have been the perfect time to unload him and gotten younger before he went for that tackle against the Bengals in Cincinnati.

 

A great GM would have seen the move I think.

 

Going chalk and failing is no excuse especially when they've rarely done the opposite. Alfred Morris excluded.

 

Skins are gonna have to give up something to get something at some point instead of just grabbing what they can get. Pull a Jimmy Johnson and give up a current strength for much greater future glory.

 

You could argue they did with RG3 and it changed the franchise.

 

We just disagree, let's leave it at that.