5/20/14 Edit: Per John Keim: Morocco Brown will become VP of player personel for Browns

[jaybrant]

Whats the capital of Morocco?

 

M?

 

 

I can't see the team being blindsided by this so I'm guessing that they were prepared to let him go. I agree with those who don't see this as a big loss.

[TSO]

Thanks Cali.  That is interesting.

 

I guess, for me, I'm just still trying to figure out if Bruce Allen is an idiot or not.

 

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Bruce Allen's track record with personnel hasn't been very good, but we were all assuming he was going to let Brown and Campbell really run their respective shows. Now, we have to wonder.   

 

I'd be really happy right now if Scott Campbell, or heck even AJ Smith, was promoted and given whatever title that makes him in charge of both draft and FA player acquisitions. Not sure I'm a big fan of Doug Williams being in charge of FA, I don't recall he was good at it before, either. Or was he? 

 

What are we to assume if nothing changes? Is Campbell still solely in charge of scouting college players and will some combination of Bruce/Doug/AJ Smith handle FA? I'm not sure I like that set up, but who cares if they produce, in the end.      

[Bantu]

One has to believe with all the GM interviews Morocco Brown went on that the 'Skins franchise had a contingency plan in case he did get hired.

As dumb as our FO has proven it is, even they probably have a list of candidates to replace Brown. The only worry I would have in this circumstance is that they overlook someone else who is already in the building.

[SWFLSkins]

This could be a good thing, won't know for some time, but when you are failing changes need to be made. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Thanks Cali.  That is interesting.

 

I guess, for me, I'm just still trying to figure out if Bruce Allen is an idiot or not.

 

:lol:

 

I don't for a second believe he is, but I understand the caution some are using on him...

[Taylor703]

So first all the fans loved Morocco and he was being handicapped by Shanahan and now that he's gone it's a good thing cause he didn't make any good free agent acquisitions? lol you can't make this stuff up.

[Skinsinparadise]

So first all the fans loved Morocco and he was being handicapped by Shanahan and now that he's gone it's a good thing cause he didn't make any good free agent acquisitions? lol you can't make this stuff up.

 

I think it can be made up. Don't recall a lot of love thrown Morocco's way but even so this post implies that specific people pumped Morroco up and those same exact people are now trashing him?  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So our non-typical, still dysfunctional FO becomes even more dysfunctional.

It's how we roll.

Hail.

[PortisBetts]

The fun never stops at Redskins park...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So our non-typical, still dysfunctional FO becomes even more dysfunctional.

It's how we roll.

Hail.

 

So now losing Brown is a sign of dysfunction lol....

For the less-reactionary among us:

 

John Keim ‏@john_keim 39m

I'll echo what @Russellmania980 said regarding Brown replacement: Must be a grinder. Guys in that spot work a ton. Not sure if D. Williams or AJ Smith would want that workload. Alex Santos could be one who would after 6 years in scouting. Said 2 have good rapport w/coaches

Rich Tandler ‏@Rich_TandlerCSN 2m

What will the effects of Morocco Brown’s departure be? Time will tell. #Redskins http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/effects-browns-departure-wont-be-felt-year … #RedskinsTalk

 

 

 

At first the news that Redskins director of pro personnel Morocco Brown was leaving to take what appears to be a similar job with the Browns was surprising but, after thinking about it for a while, it really isn’t.

 

It is likely that his departure was sealed in the immediate aftermath of the firing of Mike Shanahan as head coach and as the man with the final say in personnel decisions including the draft, free agency, and the final 53-man roster. Brown was a candidate to get promoted to general manager and get that authority. It was the position he had been working toward since he was hired by the Redskins in 2008.

 

However, just a few hours after Shanahan was let go, Bruce Allen, who has held the title of general manager for the previous four years but without most of the authority that usually goes with that job, announced that he would get that final personnel say. Allen praised Brown and said that he would be an integral part of the process but it was clear that Allen would be in charge. It seemed unlikely that Brown would be able to get to the top job in Washington and that likely set the stage for his departure after the draft.

 

As director of pro personnel, Brown was in charge of advance scouting of opponents as well as evaluating existing NFL players as possible future acquisitions via trades or free agency. The team website gives him credit for helping to land free agents like Pierre Garçon, Barry Cofield, and Stephen Bowen as well as landing undrafted players such as Darrel Young and Kai Forbath.

 

It will be a while before we know what the effects of Brown’s departure will be. It would be easy to look at the team’s 36-60 record and its lack of success when it comes to signing free agents and say that nobody associated with the team is irreplaceable. But Brown enjoys a solid reputation around the league and has interviewed for general manager jobs around the league in the past few years. It’s clear that he is not being held responsible for all of the problems that have plagued the Redskins.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Also, a nice informative summarization of the Skins' FO (from back in 2012). There's more at the link....

 

 

Getting to Know the Front Office/Understanding the Scouting Process

 

EVP/General Manager Bruce Allen (2009-year he assumed current position)
Focus: Oversees all personnel (scouts, trainers, video editors, etc.), long-term strategist for draft and free agency.
NFL Experience: Senior Executive Oakland Raiders (1996-2003) General Manager Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2004-2008)

Director of Player Personnel: Scott Campbell (2008)
Focus: Oversees all scouting, leads preparation leading up to draft day (think of him sort of as an Offensive Coordinator of scouting). He’s the point person in the off-season. A decision to draft say Roy Helu is largely based on his staff's input
NFL Experience: Scout with the Falcons (1990-1997), Director of Pro Personnel with the Bears (2000) and Redskins (2001,2006-2007), Director of College Scouting with the Redskins (2002-2005)

Area Scout: Cole Spencer (2012)
Focus: Colleges in the Northeast (like all scouts, he's given a mission statement essentially, put together by the top FO executives to find certain types of players and unearth hidden gems). A guy like Brian McNally (New Hampshire) signs with the Redskins off of Spencer's recommendation.
NFL Experience: Pro Personnel Intern with the Redskins (2010-2011)

 

[...]Director of Pro Personnel: Morocco Brown
Focus: Oversees practice squad personnel, pro player evaluation (including free agents and other leagues such as CFL), in charge of advanced scouting of next opponent. He’s the point person in the regular season. A decision to sign say Ryan Grant is largely based on his staff's input
NFL Experience: Assistant Director of Pro Personnel Bears (2002-2007), assistant scout with the Redskins (2000-2001)

Pro Scout: Alex Santos (2009)
Focus: Assists Morocco Brown with advanced scouting and pro player evaluation, focus on CFL.
NFL Experience: Pro Personnel assistant with the Redskins (2006-2008)

Pro Scout: Richard Mann II (2010)
Focus: Same as Alex Santos, but he focuses on other leagues such as UFL and AFL. Both Santos and Mann evaluate NFL players as well
NFL Experience: Intern with Baltimore Ravens (2003), Pro Personnel Assistant with Tampa Bay (2007-2009)

 

[...]Understanding the Scouting Process

 

August 2011: Tim Gribble, as college scout of the Midwest, will prepare his schedule of schools to watch which will include Iowa, for the college football season. Gribble will attend games, school practices, and watch film with the position coach, coordinator and head coach of each player he's targeting. He'll also try to do some digging on intangibles, for example he'll talk to professors about his character and demeanor in the classroom, his study habits, etc.

September 2011: Pro Scout Alex Santos begins a weekly process of reviewing every NFL game for the teams he has been assigned to and begins compiling reports on every player, with a particular focus toward impending free agents and potential trade options. Santos and Mann will follow the same pattern as Gribble, but with pro players

September 2011: In addition to his coaching responsibilities, Chris Foerster (since we're talking about Gettis, let's keep this to OL talk) is compiling weekly notes on the current players he's coaching. So guys like Chris Chester, Eric Cook, Will Montgomery, etc.

January 2012: Bruce Allen and Morocco Brown sit down with Alex Santos and Richard Mann and review the players in the NFL, CFL, Arena Football, etc. that they have graded high enough to be considered for the team

January 2012: Chris Foerster is given the list of players along with game films prepared by the pro scouts and does his own review and ranks the players

February 2012: Shanahan, Allen, Brown, Santos, Mann and select coaches begin an arduous process of evaluating each player at a position. It's generally about half dozen or so players. So let's say Alex Santos has reviewed NFC North teams and Carl Nicks on the list of players. Santos will present his review of Nicks, then Foerster will present his review. Ultimately Nicks will be given a grade let's say it's 8 on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest). The process in the repeated with the next player. Let's say Mann presents on Ben Grubbs and Grubbs is given a 7. So head to head Nicks has now been officially placed ahead of Grubbs. Once they have ranked the non-Redskins they then layer in the current Redskins OL. So let's say Chris Chester gets a 6. This doesn't mean they're going to go after Nicks necessarily because there are other factors/positions to consider. It just means from a strictly scouting perspective, the scouts and Foerster have determined that Nicks is more valuable than Chester. (note: this is just an example, this isn't what actually happened)

The process repeats for every position and then for college players as well. At what point they blend the rankings of pro and college players i forget

February 2012: Bruce Allen prepares the final report based on the meetings and presents it to Shanahan and Snyder for final approval. Snyder's role at this point is to approve spending the expected dollar amount, or be willing to exceed if deemed necessary, to land the free agents targeted by his staff. Eric Schaffer plays a prominent role here in determining the budget and preparing for negotiations. Though increasingly Allen has taken on the role of Snyder and Schaffer. Presenting the report to Snyder has become more a courtesy gesture than anything else.

March 2012: As the Redskins start preparing for the draft, Shanahan, Allen, Campbell (and probably a couple other people) will start grading across the board. So they'll try to determine if a OL rated a 6 is better or more necessary than a DB rated a 6, for example. And their big board is created for draft day.

Draft Day 2012: As the draft proceeds, each position coach ranks the best available players at his position versus current Redskins. Shahanan and Allen will take those rankings as the day proceeds and measure across the board as noted above. So when Gettis' name comes up on the board Shanahan and Allen see that they can take Gettis or Josh Norman (DB-Coastal Carolina). Based on their big board, Gettis and Norman are the highest ranked players. Gettis is ranked higher than say Maurice Hurt, but Josh Norman isn't ranked higher than Kevin Barnes. So they draft Gettis

 

 

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/50072-getting-know-front-office-understanding-scouting.html

 

 

[rk3025]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Bruce Allen's track record with personnel hasn't been very good, but we were all assuming he was going to let Brown and Campbell really run their respective shows. Now, we have to wonder.   

 

I'd be really happy right now if Scott Campbell, or heck even AJ Smith, was promoted and given whatever title that makes him in charge of both draft and FA player acquisitions. Not sure I'm a big fan of Doug Williams being in charge of FA, I don't recall he was good at it before, either. Or was he? 

 

What are we to assume if nothing changes? Is Campbell still solely in charge of scouting college players and will some combination of Bruce/Doug/AJ Smith handle FA? I'm not sure I like that set up, but who cares if they produce, in the end.      

Was only a matter of time before Morocco got a better promotion, kinda wish it was Allen's GM job. A J Smith was hired with the idea that Morocco was moving on to better things and I'm sure Kyle put the little birdie in the Brown's ear on how through Brown is in his work.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So now losing Brown is a sign of dysfunction lol....

..... ]

'Lol' away as is your want. I just apparently don't share your faith in this non-typical set-up.

No secret I'm VERY ambivalent on this off-season. And if I didn't know better I'd of thought Vinny was running our draft. That's dysfunction right there to me but I've no inclination to keep debating what's moot now it's occurred.

We have differing opinions which is good. That's the lifeblood of a message board.

I'll just refrain from a patronising 'lol or laughing smiley.'

Hail.

[dcdiscokid]

Was only a matter of time before Morocco got a better promotion, kinda wish it was Allen's GM job. A J Smith was hired with the idea that Morocco was moving on to better things and I'm sure Kyle put the little birdie in the Brown's ear on how though Brown is in his work.

Im not sure that's true my understanding is that AJ is more of a college/draft guy.  Also like Russell and Keim have said I have a hard time believing he would want to put in the hours required for this job. 

[Royale]

Is that you Chad Dukes?

 

 

All kidding aside, you're making a mountain out of molehills and then expecting everyone not to get all over you for forcing narratives on seemingly harmless stories. Brown has interviewed time and time again for GM spots around the league, this isn't news.

[rk3025]

You think Snyder would've learned after Baalke and Schneider....oh well.

Snyder said he had two great employees since he bought the team Morocco Brown and the Janitor.

[TheLongshot]

'Lol' away as is your want. I just apparently don't share your faith in this non-typical set-up.

 

You are now the second person to have said this, and I still don't understand what is non-typical of our setup.

 

Course, I thought about it and I think I have figured out why people say this: You don't take Bruce Allen as GM very seriously do you?  You feel he's a figurehead, right?  I mean, that's the only way I can take seriously that Bruce should be "promoted" and someone hired in his place (the "real" GM).

 

I guess I understand that attitude.  It does seem that when he was brought in here he was a figurehead, someone who would be the go-between between Snyder and Shanahan and little power beyond that.  That being said, he is an experienced NFL executive who has run the football operations for 2 previous teams.  He's not exactly inexperienced here.

 

So, I'm beginning to understand why people have this view.  I don't agree with it, but I'm understanding it.

 

BTW, I think our last draft was the opposite of Vinnyesq.  Vinny was in love with player mesurables, less so with football smarts and character.  This draft seems to rely less on measurables and more with football smarts, character (two team captains) and special teams play (which was lacking in last year's draft.)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

'Lol' away as is your want. I just apparently don't share your faith in this non-typical set-up.

No secret I'm VERY ambivalent on this off-season. And if I didn't know better I'd of thought Vinny was running our draft. That's dysfunction right there to me but I've no inclination to keep debating what's moot now it's occurred.

We have differing opinions which is good. That's the lifeblood of a message board.

I'll just refrain from a patronising 'lol or laughing smiley.'

Hail.

 

The problem is, you've had a LOT of reactionary responses over the last 3-4 years towards actions the Skins' FO has either made or you just imagined they would make...and have been wrong more times than I can remember (you don't want me to bring them up, trust me lol). So this latest one--that Morocco Brown leaving the Redskins is nothing but evidence of dysfunction--now only elicits laughter as a response lol.

[roanoker]

I think I'll play Hall and Oates "She's Gone" song replacing the she in the lyrics...

[J-bomb]

@MarkMaske:

Bruce Allen said at NFL owners' meeting in Atlanta that the Redskins will start interviewing candidates this week to replace Morocco Brown.

@MarkMaske:

Allen said: "We’ve known this for a few weeks. So we’ve already started setting up interviews.” Called it "a great opportunity" for Brown.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think I'll play Hall and Oates "She's Gone" song replacing the she in the lyrics...

 

Everybody's high on this dysfunction

Everybody's trying to tell me what's wrong with the Skins, yeah

Bruce Allen tried to bore me with a sermon

But it's plain to see that they can't comfort me

Brown's gone, he's gone

Oh I, oh I

I better learn how to face it

Brown's gone, he's gone

Oh I, oh I

Why didn't Snyder pay to keep him

He's gone, and he's gone

Oh why, what went wrong?

[TSO]

@MarkMaske:

Bruce Allen said at NFL owners' meeting in Atlanta that the Redskins will start interviewing candidates this week to replace Morocco Brown.

@MarkMaske:

Allen said: "We’ve known this for a few weeks. So we’ve already started setting up interviews.” Called it "a great opportunity" for Brown.

 

Very good news. I would've hated to find out that they were blind sided or anything by this.

 

I'm assuming these "interviews" are outside candidates. I'm super intrigued as to who we interview, hope we stay updated on it.   

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Very good news. I would've hated to find out that they were blind sided or anything by this.

 

I'm assuming these "interviews" are outside candidates. I'm super intrigued as to who we interview, hope we stay updated on it.   

As Allen covers the mic and asks his lawyer "Morocco who?"

[RFKFedEx]

I've just read this entire thread and I don't feel any different than I did an hour ago. My only comfort is knowing that he went somewhere worse. Had he gone to the Steelers or Pack I'd be freaking out.

 

Good luck Mr. Brown.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

You are now the second person to have said this, and I still don't understand what is non-typical of our setup.

 

Course, I thought about it and I think I have figured out why people say this: You don't take Bruce Allen as GM very seriously do you?  You feel he's a figurehead, right?  I mean, that's the only way I can take seriously that Bruce should be "promoted" and someone hired in his place (the "real" GM).

 

I guess I understand that attitude.  It does seem that when he was brought in here he was a figurehead, someone who would be the go-between between Snyder and Shanahan and little power beyond that.  That being said, he is an experienced NFL executive who has run the football operations for 2 previous teams.  He's not exactly inexperienced here.

 

So, I'm beginning to understand why people have this view.  I don't agree with it, but I'm understanding it.

 

BTW, I think our last draft was the opposite of Vinnyesq.  Vinny was in love with player mesurables, less so with football smarts and character.  This draft seems to rely less on measurables and more with football smarts, character (two team captains) and special teams play (which was lacking in last year's draft.)

 

 

It doesn't bother you at all that a non personnel savvy "GM" has tiebreaker votes in our draft/player decisions?  Wouldn't you be more comfortable having Bruce throw parties and stuff and let football minded people play the GM role AND run the personnel/scouting department?

 

I'm not bemoaning Bruce's value to our franchise.  He is great at what he does, which is deal with the business side of things.  Contract guru.  Cap master.  Speech maker.  If you look at our books for the next few years, I think it's obvious how much we are lucky to have him in that regard.

 

For me, I wanted football minded people making the football decisions, and the business people making it work.  And no, I don't consider Bruce to be a football minded person.

 

And for what it's worth, I think Bruce is just as responsible for the state of our team and organization as Shanny is/was.  I think he shares some of the blame for the cap penalty.  And I thought it was weak sauce that he passed the buck to Shanny when it came to accountability.  Maybe more weak than Haslett blaming Shanny for interfering.