NIKKI8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 It was rumored that the Seahawks might want him (he has connections there, too)... That would be great, I hope he goes to Seattle because he didn't really have alot of success in Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 That would be great, I hope he goes to Seattle because he didn't really have alot of success in Tampa. In reality, though, is Mrocco Brown's resume any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 You're poisoning us all with your lies!!!! Listen brother, you're not the only one who has an eyebrow raised in Bruce's direction. You HAVE read the board recently right AW and not just myself? Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 edit Brown helped bring in 14 Free Agents from other teams so that draftees would not be chosen by need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 What, in all of that above, sticks out to you as passing the buck to Shanahan and giving him the blame? I don't know, maybe the unwritten part where Shanny got fired and Bruce didn't. Shanny was the scapegoat, am I wrong? But seriously, I watched all those pressers. That's why I don't trust Bruce any farther than I could spit him. Spin, spin, spin. I hold myself accountable = we're gonna search far and wide for a coach = bull**** I didn't get the feeling that Bruce was taking responsibility during any of those things. I think he was deflecting blame. Just my opinion, and you surely disagree. He was such a master at deflecting blame, Haslett stayed on as our defensive coordinator. He's still here. How can anyone have any confidence in anyone who keeps Haslett (possibly Gruden), or the guy that hired the guy who wanted to keep Haslett. Just too many head scratchers for me, including some of our draft picks. I'm not bent out of shape about Morocco leaving, at all. It just seems to me that it's another possible symptom of a larger problem with our FO. They seem to be a ton of red flags blowing in the breeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm not bent out of shape about Morocco leaving, at all. It just seems to me that it's another possible symptom of a larger problem with our FO. They seem to be a ton of red flags blowing in the breeze. Amen brother. Hopefully either Jay Gruden works out or we get a real GM who selects a coach to run this program. I have my fingers crossed that Jay works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 What, in all of that above, sticks out to you as passing the buck to Shanahan and giving him the blame?“I see some people who have to be given an opportunity to succeed,” said Allen. “I think Scott Campbell running a college draft will be as capable as any personnel director in the NFL. I know what Morocco Brown can do in free agency. I’ve seen the grades of the players he’s given in free agency. To blame them, I think, would be unfair to not giving them an opportunity to succeed.”That is pretty much passing the buck for both Brown and Campbell to Shanahan. It's not fair to blame them for what happens during Mike's tenure? Now they are finally going to have an opportunity to succeed. That was the message from this. I guess we shouldn't give Brown and Campbell credit for Garçon, Cofield, drafting Morris etc either Also, the same thing was essentially said for keeping Haslett on board. That's what he was probably referring to, it was the overall vibe and theme of the entire offseason so far. Who knows really, again, it just seems like messy and unorganized all around and I think people raising eyebrows have validity in their concerns or hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 You HABE read the board recently right AW and not just myself? Hail Because you are constantly posting anger towards the wrong people. Instead of worrying about Shanny, you should have worried about demanding a real GM be hired, and a coach be hired by that real GM. In any event. Jay Gruden is really the last man standing before the fan base can demand Danny hires a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 In any event. Jay Gruden is really the last man standing before the fan base can demand Danny hires a GM. Very true here, if Jay doesn't work out, it's really the last straw in that regard and I wouldn't expect Bruce to continue in any GM capacity at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Califan, I think you might have missed some of the articles that came out as well as the crazy leaks that were happening before, and right up to when, Mike was fired. You're being smart and staying away from here during the craziness, lol. But, there was definitely a heavy chunk of scapegoating that was going on. Now, most of us understood that Mike threw the first punches with the leaks and, therefore, it was understandable why the team would release some stuff on their own... but the fact is, they did. The whole "Haslett was a victim and forced to run Shanny's D" and "the personnel department was often overruled by Shanny" story lines were clearly let out so as to put all the blame on Shanahan, as if he had no input from anyone else. It was almost as if all of the other guys were just sitting there watching the entire time, totally helpless. What bothered me most is that after the 2012 season everyone was taking credit. You had both Brown and Campbell making statements about players we acquired. Heck, Brown interviewed with the Cardinals that offseason and I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't saying "yeah, I had little to do with the Redskins roster", at that point. You had Bruce Allen saying how proud he was of everyone. You had Haslett acknowledging how creative the defense was, etc... That was the worst for me. To see how they all turned. It was just plain fronting to me. When Bruce Allen had the presser that you quoted, he went against that line of thinking that the team was pushing and I remember a lot of us (including myself, chipwich, Alvin, Momma There Goes That Man and some others who aren't posting in this thread) were glad that he was putting an end to it for the most part. But, yeah... it was definitely there. So it is a bit weird that Brown was essentially given all the benefit of the doubt and then he ends up going elsewhere. But, like zoony said, it isn't really weird and promotions happen. I guess some of us wanted us to be the ones to give that promotion. I think, in the end, what all of us really want is a GM who is, without a doubt, an excellent personnel guy and is running the show with clear authority. Now, maybe that's silly. Maybe we don't need that as much as we need a guy who is managing the team and letting his personnel guys do their jobs well. But I think that's where the issues arise. We look at some of the other "GMs" around the league and their successes based on being personnel guys, and we just want that. In the end, I don't care. I like what Bruce brings to the table, as Alvin has said, with his excellent contract and team networking skills. If he's able to surround himself with the right personnel guys and let them do their jobs effectively, without overruling them often... I think it can totally work. But my worry is that we'll have another situation where the personnel guys get overruled a lot by the coaches or even by Bruce himself. I feel like that's been our downfall more often than not. When I hear Bruce say how "all of us, scouts and coaches, are discussing everything and coming to a 'Redskin' decision", I don't know... it worries me. Maybe that's baseless, though. That's where a little of the angst comes from, though. Brown leaving kind of brings that back a bit, if you know what I mean? Like I said, in the end, I don't care. I just want to see us improve. I want to see us develop players we draft consistently and effectively. I want to see us become an organization where it seems like, any player that comes through here, they get better or just look better. I hope I helped explain where some of this is coming from for you and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't think you will have the problem of the coaches running the asylum, since Gruden doesn't have that kind of power. I doubt Haslett has that power either, considering he didn't exactly get a major overhaul of his end of the field. Yes, Shanahan got the bulk of the blame. Maybe it was too much of it, but when you take on most of the power, you also take on most of the responsibility. That being said, no matter what else happened, there is little doubt that the relationship between RG3 and the Shanahans had broken down. With RG3 being the franchise, it is pretty obvious who had to go. Not to mention that Shanahan seemed crash and burn on his way out. Even Kyle had to distance himself from it all. If mistakes were made on the personnel side, hopefully lessons were learned. This offseason has been a solid effort. We won't know until they get on the field if it was enough of the right moves, but we will start to get the measure of this FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Good for him. Don´t think this is a huge loss. We have enough people to fill his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I find revisionism interesting. The Front Office was given so much praise over the period of the bs cap penalty for holding the team together, still manufacturing a roster capable of getting us to the playoffs and not losing anyone really except Alexander. Everyone was really excited about the draft and then the direction. Then 2013 happens and Bruce is a total incompetent bum who can't be trusted. He's still the same man strengths and weaknesses that many here lauded just a year ago. It's fair to view everything with skepticism. After all, last season was a ship wreck of Titanic proportions, however, it's not reasonable to view 2013 at the exclusion of all else. Allen's proven to be a good cap and numbers guy. Our free agent crop this year was mixed. Were Lovau and Flynn really the best we could do at O-line? Roberts and Harper seem like decent gets, but the db especially has questions. Hatcher and Jackson look to be premier guys and we'll have to see how they perform. So, do we like the free agent job Allen/Brown did this year once freed from the cap penalty? I imagine that it's relatively easier to replace a pro-scout than a college scout, after all, the pro scout is comparing NFL talent to NFL talent and has far fewer teams and players to watch. I wish Brown well, but while I agree that Allen must prove himself sans Shanahan, I hardly think his Front Office has been a steaming crater over his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't know, maybe the unwritten part where Shanny got fired and Bruce didn't. Shanny was the scapegoat, am I wrong? But seriously, I watched all those pressers. That's why I don't trust Bruce any farther than I could spit him. Spin, spin, spin. I hold myself accountable = we're gonna search far and wide for a coach = bull**** I didn't get the feeling that Bruce was taking responsibility during any of those things. I think he was deflecting blame. Just my opinion, and you surely disagree. He was such a master at deflecting blame, Haslett stayed on as our defensive coordinator. He's still here. How can anyone have any confidence in anyone who keeps Haslett (possibly Gruden), or the guy that hired the guy who wanted to keep Haslett. Just too many head scratchers for me, including some of our draft picks. I'm not bent out of shape about Morocco leaving, at all. It just seems to me that it's another possible symptom of a larger problem with our FO. They seem to be a ton of red flags blowing in the breeze. You're kinda all over the place now lol... Since Allen didn't fire himself he's "passing the buck"... And his press conferences have "spin spin spin"... And keeping Haslett is a sign of "deflecting blame".. Annnnd you don't like his draft picks lol... Basically, you don't like Bruce Allen so pretty much anything and everything can be spun--er, interpreted--in a negative light with validity...because while you're not "at all" bothered by Morocco Brown leaving, it's still a possible sign of a larger problem with Allen's front office. I'm thinking, if it IS a "possible sign of a larger problem", then you should be bothered by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 That would be great, I hope he goes to Seattle because he didn't really have alot of success in Tampa. This is the same knock on Bruce and on Raheem, but the common denominator is the ownership, the Glazers. And here you have Snyder. I see this Brown exit good or bad as another indicator of ownership more so than those who worked with him. It is Snyders job to set up the FO. He now has Allen, Campbell and AJ Smith up top. Let's not put this all on Bruce. Hopefully this is a progression of Snyders growth and not another fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I think Bruce Allen if anything has been classy as how he personally addressed the whole Shanny situation, he was pretty gracious talking about Shanny. As to whether Allen is a legitimate GM, I get people questioning that. If he is going to have a shrewd personnel guy that he defers to when it comes to players, I can see that working, considering Allen's personal connections and adeptness in dealing with the cap and contracts. IMO Shanny deserves every bit of the blame for the 3-13. If the buck starts with him as a head coach and a GM -- shouldn't it cut both ways? And I didn't find that Shanny was shy about taking credit for the playoff season at all, He was getting the lions share of credit not the other guys. And he was feeling confident heading into last season when he talked about the team as one that sees this season as Superbowl or bust. But to me Shanny's duplicitous ways and leaks/scapegoating, more than anything earned the firing, etc. Having said that, hard for me to buy that Shanny completely handcuffed, M. Brown, Scott Campbell, Jim Haslett -- for me it defies logic. And as I've gone through all the free agent signings and trades that took place in the Shanny regime, a lot of cringe worthy deals, more bad ones than good ones. I think if anything Scott Campbell did better in the draft, I think while far from spectacular they did OK in the draft. When I go through free agency and NFL player trades over the last 4 years, and heck even worse if I go back to 2008 to when M. Brown started, I don't tell myself boy I want the guy who was part of that running my organization. Now maybe M. Brown was the guy who pushed the handful of good deals as opposed to the numerous bad/mediocre ones -- who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Califan, I think you might have missed some of the articles that came out as well as the crazy leaks that were happening before, and right up to when, Mike was fired. You're being smart and staying away from here during the craziness, lol. I hope I helped explain where some of this is coming from for you and others. Definitely glad I chose to stay away, yes lol... One reason being, I didn't get caught up in "leaks" by "sources", as if what gets tossed out by media mouthpieces tells me all I need to know. Without knowing what anyone here was saying, I would guess that if you were Pro-Shanahan, you perceived the leaks in a certain way...and if you were Anti-Shanahan, you perceived those same leaks in a completely different way. I was neither, and I didn't read the "leaks". But here is one example I can give. I had no idea Shanahan was fired until about 6 hours after he was fired lol. Then, I tried getting caught up on some of what was being said prior to his firing. Not much, but some. And one of the things I read was that apparently according to "sources" Shanahan was gonna quit after the 2012 season? And he made that decision before the playoff game was even played...that he was already getting his office squared away for him to leave before the playoff game, but Griffin's injury made him change his plans as he didn't think it was right to leave with the newly drafted franchise QB dealing with surgery and rehabilitation. That's one of the first "leaks" I read. My one and only thought when I read that? Shanahan was gonna bail on his team and players after their first division title in 13 years and before their first playoff game???...Seriously? lol... I honestly threw the thought out of my mind as asinine. Maybe there was a kernel of truth to it, I dunno. If it WAS 100% true then I was glad Shanahan was gone. If it was NOT 100% true then I was glad I laughed it off and placed zero validity on the leak. What floors me, though, is grown-ass men on here take leaks, rumors and speculation and see it turn them into Lucy and Ethel lol...it's like freakin' high school. At my age I've learned that trying to parse through this nonsense to figure out what "really" happened is a complete and utter waste of time...and using it as proof or evidence of anything is downright laughable. If an interview is given and either man goes on record with their account of the events, then I'll take notice and try and figure things out. Outside of that, though, who gives a ****. So if there's a Team Shanahan and Team Allen mindset that's playing a role in how the current FO and their moves are being perceived, then all I can do is shake my head and laugh lol...for me, three horrible records out of four seasons alone would explain why a team decided to move on from their head coach. If the same happens under Gruden then that makes two coaches under Allen that couldn't get it done and he needs to go, too. Simple. No need for leaks on the twitter first lol... As for wanting a GM who is a bonafide and proven "personnel guy", Vinny was arguably a more proven personnel guy than Allen. Pioli definitely was seen as such, and he damn near wrecked the Chiefs during his time as GM. Both did provide their share of talent for their teams, though. My point? (not because you need it, but because I know certain ES members won't understand it without me 'splaining it to them lol)...I want a GM who knows how to competently run a franchise. Every aspect of it. We abso-freakin-lutely NEED that with Snyder as the owner. If we have one, then he won't need to be the best personnel guy in the front office because he will have competent, skillful personnel guys in the front office with him whose opinions and evaluations he trusts. The working relationships between head coach, scouts and GM will be ones that cultivate maximizing their collective talents to the benefit of the roster. Surprisingly enough, Snyder might foster that type of working organization more than the Glazers did in Tampa. And I think it's beyond obvious that Allen placed importance on bringing together a front office and coaching regime that he felt would and could work extremely well together...kind of like drafting players with great character and team leaders, even if their measurables aren't at the very top. Gibbs said the hardest thing for him to do as head coach was put together the right players that would result in a successful, winning team...that it was far more than just finding the most talented players. He needed to determine which players would best fit with his scheme and with his team, skill set-wise, personality-wise, temperment-wise. Everything. That's one reason he was able to win multiple SBs with "a bunch of 7's" as Matt Millen described it, instead of HOF players littered across the roster like most dynasties. Right now, Allen seems to be taking a similar approach towards building his coaching staff and front office. Can Allen pull it off? Let's hope so. That's really the only thing that I'm concentrating on. Because to me, right now that's the only thing that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 During his tenure, I personally have not been impressed with the collective moves he could take credit for. Chester, Morgan, Tanard, Madieu, Merriweather, Rocca... he can only hang his hat on Garcon for so long. I bet most here granted his same deep pockets would have targeted and landed Garcon, too. We hear how great he is, but when is that last time you heard a bad thing reported, about any GM assistant? Good for him - have fun in Cleveland with Kyle who hopefully won't toss him under the bus when he doesn't get his guy. If MB is not replaceable, I presume we would not have let him leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The problem for me with the Shanahans was that as with Gibbs and Shottenhiemer too much power and reponsibility was channelled through one guy. What people wonder then is what is it Allen did, while Shanahan was here. Well one thing he has been effective doing is cleaning up the reputation of the Redskins amongst the Alumi and throughout the league. We seem to be opperating like the majority of 31 other teams we are not the outlier anymore and I am intregued to find out why so many think we have an uncoventional set up - other than they don't like the guy at the top. We are building through the draft and using FA to patch the holes for the most part, and when FA are brought in on longer contracts they are players the team thinks are approching their prime and can develop. That is what people have been calling for, for years. Of course when it happens the same people calling for this approach are the first to cry about it. As for Brown leaving, good luck to him, he has left before and the team did not implode, we will have someone step up and take his place, hopefully someone internally because I think our FO is a little top heavy. I doubt this came as much of a surprise and I am not sure why it has prevoked such a negative reaction... oh wait this is still the extremeskins board ....the home of the angry mob.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Congratulations to Brown. Not sure why the mediates need to look at this as a negative. People get promoted to jobs with different companies all the time. Not a big deal Not to make a big deal out of it or anything but congrats. We just shipped you off to Cleaveland to run their board. Enjoy your promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well damn Cali you are really pouring yourself into this thread. Well said, although I'm sure you'll catch plenty of flak before the day is out. I have quite intentionally refrained from getting involved here lately because it smacks of the animosity that flared during the tank the season slugfest. There needs to be a distinction made between those that have valid concerns couched as opinions and the raging mob spew from some that that are just going to hate any and everything that happens. This thread is a good example, Brown was castigated for being a part of last year's trainwreck, Allen is excoriated for keeping so many from last year but now when one leaves, the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth wells up because this is just one more symptom of franchise dysfunction. So often these discussions degenerate some into poster's personal bias driving the conversation, and for me it gets pretty damn tiresome. Keep the coach- WRONG! replace the coach- WRONG! hire an established coach-WRONG! Go with a young OC-WRONG! yadda yadda yaddafreekingyaddad nauseum...... As much as anyone I am in "wait-n-see" mode with this new incarnation of team structure, but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise as far as Bruce Allen's management style and willingness to delegate responsibility, I just cannot wrap my head around the arguments against it. After 20 years of watching every possible way to keep the franchise from functioning, we now get to watch and see if working together and treating each other as adults works (we sure didn't get much of that before). I'd sure as hell love to see the same vibe around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 You're kinda all over the place now lol... Since Allen didn't fire himself he's "passing the buck"... And his press conferences have "spin spin spin"... And keeping Haslett is a sign of "deflecting blame".. Annnnd you don't like his draft picks lol... Basically, you don't like Bruce Allen so pretty much anything and everything can be spun--er, interpreted--in a negative light with validity...because while you're not "at all" bothered by Morocco Brown leaving, it's still a possible sign of a larger problem with Allen's front office. I'm thinking, if it IS a "possible sign of a larger problem", then you should be bothered by it. I was just pointing out the things I don't like about Bruce. His cronyism sucks and is my least favorite thing. I already stated that he is a valuable part of our organization. Haslett staying to me is the definition of deflecting blame at best and utter incompetence at the worst. I don't hate Bruce, I'm just skeptical. That's all. I'm gonna leave this argument because it's tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well damn Cali you are really pouring yourself into this thread. Well said, although I'm sure you'll catch plenty of flak before the day is out. I have quite intentionally refrained from getting involved here lately because it smacks of the animosity that flared during the tank the season slugfest. There needs to be a distinction made between those that have valid concerns couched as opinions and the raging mob spew from some that that are just going to hate any and everything that happens. This thread is a good example, Brown was castigated for being a part of last year's trainwreck, Allen is excoriated for keeping so many from last year but now when one leaves, the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth wells up because this is just one more symptom of franchise dysfunction. So often these discussions degenerate some into poster's personal bias driving the conversation, and for me it gets pretty damn tiresome. Keep the coach- WRONG! replace the coach- WRONG! hire an established coach-WRONG! Go with a young OC-WRONG! yadda yadda yaddafreekingyaddad nauseum...... I think you're going a little overboard here. I have seen raging mob threads on here and I don't think this qualifies. I certainly haven't seen any disrespect towards each other going on in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 So... Why is it that having some frustration with the loss is seen as a negative towards Morocco Brown? I think losing him stings a bit. But I think for him this was an excellent move, and I don't begrudge him for it. There could be any number of reasons he was "allowed" to walk... From not wanting to pay him all the way to him not wanting to stay. We don't know the whys and I'm sure whatever the reason is, it makes sense to Morocco Brown and/or the team. *shrug* I'm also not sure why this is being spun as a negative towards Allen. Losing Morocco Brown may have nothing to do with Bruce Allen. I've been pleased with our offseason. My complaint with the draft was that I don't think we maximized it, not that we didn't find talent. In free agency, we filled holes with talent, we created competition. The Bruce Allen led FO is doing well, in my opinion. We'll see just how well (or not) once it's proven on the field. That doesn't mean that Morocco Brown leaving is a good thing. It doesn't mean its a bad thing. I think this stings a bit more than others do, but that's not a slight on Bruce. It's a positive for what I believe Morocco Brown contributed to our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I was just pointing out the things I don't like about Bruce. His cronyism sucks and is my least favorite thing. I already stated that he is a valuable part of our organization. Haslett staying to me is the definition of deflecting blame at best and utter incompetence at the worst. I don't hate Bruce, I'm just skeptical. That's all. I'm gonna leave this argument because it's tired. The problem with the term "cronyism" is that it implies that the people Bruce have brought in are not qualified for their jobs, that they only have the jobs because Bruce knows them. I don't think anyone can sit here and say that Williams or Gruden aren't qualified candidates for their jobs. I also don't understand how not being familiar with someone is somehow more attractive a candidate than someone you know. As for Haslett, it seems very much related to the Gruden hire. Bruce knew they were close and that there was a strong possibility that Gruden might want to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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