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Brees, Culpepper, and RG3. Potential and Perils.

Riggo-toni

By Riggo-toni
in The Stadium

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

Posted
Posted

...Now in regards to him developing during the offseason, it's completely different doing individual work and 7-7's vs. full 1st team reps and pre-season.  I would understand that if he had ran a traditional offense before but he hasn't, when you haven't actually ran it then I'm sure (of course I don't know, I haven't gone through it before) it's more than just picking it up during the season.  These other quarterbacks have been running traditional offenses and are much more familiar with the basics and mechanics.  Griffin hasn't and it's not something you just pick up during individual work-outs or through gameplans in-season.

Sure individual work is different from 1st team reps/pre-season. But its a start. For example during pre-game Drew Brees shadow reps the pass plays and progressions for that game. And Griffin DID participate in 1st team reps at some point during training camp.

 

...But I also think it's ok to shut him down for the season.  He is taking way too many hits and isn't gaining anything but reps (which are irrelevant at this point because he needs to go back to the basics and mechanics of a drop back passer first) from here on out.

Im okay with shutting him down because his coaches don't believe in him and that is dangerous.
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Laron Burgundy

Laron Burgundy

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If ONLY we'd of had a coaching staff working WITH Robert instead of AGAINST him all year we wouldn't be having to pose the end question now. (I don't think he's lost much if any of his speed personally but that's neither here nor there to the wider point.).

Hail.

He may have similar top end speed, but speed is different from quickness. Rg3 is noticeably less quick, and that has probably resulted in some sacks or linebackers getting an angle on him. I hope he regains that quickness next year.

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kleese

kleese

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I don't think the fact that the QBs mentioned in this thread are different matters. I view more as a theoretical point/observation: Something happened to each of the QBs in question that changed/altered their career path. One of them took that and channeled it into a HOF career. The other fizzled quickly. Waiting to see what happens with the third.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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Brees was always a pocket guy at Purdue and it took him some time to learn the NFL.  

Mm, they ran a spread and Brees OFTEN ran, mostly to pass but he was a threat to run too.  I recall few formations when I saw him play (and I saw him get manhandled at Michigan, when we used to be good lol) that did not involve empty sets or one back with him in the shotgun.  

 

I'd hesitate to call him a conventional pocket QB.  Brady was much more that, but HE ALSO excelled spreading out the field, a harbinger of things to come for the NFL, really.

And more importantly to me the mental aspect of wearing it.  Think The Dark Knight Rises "jump without the rope" mentality.

Then fear will find you again.  Deshi, basara, deshi basara!

Totally different type of players (RGIII and Culpepper). 

 

RGIII is more like a smaller version of Randall Cunnhingham then Daunte Culpepper.

 

RGIII is bigger than Randall, except maybe in height?  RG3 is 216 or so lbs and Randall was very lanky himself but was only 190s or so until later in his career (like after he was done in Philly)

 

EDIT: confirmed, he was 6-4, but wiki lists his weight at 215 but that must have been at the end because I know for a fact he was below 200 in Philly.

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steve09ru

steve09ru

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Sure individual work is different from 1st team reps/pre-season. But its a start. For example during pre-game Drew Brees shadow reps the pass plays and progressions for that game. And Griffin DID participate in 1st team reps at some point during training camp.

 

Im okay with shutting him down because his coaches don't believe in him and that is dangerous.

He did 1st team reps very late into training camp and had minimal work with them.  The majority was 7-on-7 with no rush

 

I don't think it's necessarily that the coaches don't believe in him.  I think it is what it is, he hasn't developed to the extent that he has needed to (whoever's fault that is, Injury, Coach, RG3, QB Coach, etc.).  Regardless of fault, trotting him out there for 3 meaningless games is not going to do anything.  Nothing is going to just click now, why risk the health of RG3.  With the hits he has taken, what if he goes out again and misses camp again?  He's still not going to be developing.  You can ask why this wasn't done sooner, and I would ask the same.  But I don't think it's out of spite.

 

Maybe Shanny is showcasing Cousins the last 3 weeks.  What's the worst that could happen?  We get some picks back?  Who knows if the Rams are still all in for Bradford, would we be able to get our pick back with Cousins or some sort of package?  A lot of possibilities come with this move and very minimal harm.  With out going into full conspiracy mode (like everyone seems to have already done), what is this move truly hurting?  Everything is speculation at this point and nothing is fact.

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TheGreek1973

TheGreek1973

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Posted

to me nothing is more important to get a QB quru to coach RGIII, work on his mechanics etc.  I have been critical but one thing no one can dispute is this kid will work to death to get better. That along gives me a lot of hope for him becoming not just a great QB but maybe one of the best ever.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

Posted
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I don't think it's necessarily that the coaches don't believe in him.  I think it is what it is, he hasn't developed to the extent that he has needed to (whoever's fault that is, Injury, Coach, RG3, QB Coach, etc.).  Regardless of fault,

Lets be honest here. Mike/Kyle for whatever reason don't believe in the kid and that is through Chris Cooley and kinda through Shefter who believe that Mike/Kyle and Griffin don't get along.

And if Griffin hasn't developed they are the ones that didn't develop him.

But even that is superious because as recently as the Giants game Griff was 16/17 1 TD in the first half before he was forced to be a triple option QB in the second half. There are many levels of truth, BS and possible malice at play here.

When you break it down to the Xs and Os there are some playcalls and gameplans that used to make me scratch my head that now sadly make more sense now. But I digress...

 

trotting him out there for 3 meaningless games is not going to do anything.  Nothing is going to just click now, why risk the health of RG3.  With the hits he has taken, what if he goes out again and misses camp again?  He's still not going to be developing.  You can ask why this wasn't done sooner, and I would ask the same.  But I don't think it's out of spite.

You buy that injury shill? What if any player gets hurt? And he still not developing because they still aren't developing him. And again lets not exxagerate how bad Griffin is playing because just 2 games he was 16/17 1 TD in the first half against the Giants.

 

But to your point, if they thought so highly of Cousins and Griffin was such a poor pocket passer then should have played Cousins week 1. But again that's a differnt story.

 

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The Robert Griffin Experience

The Robert Griffin Experience

Posted
Posted

Good read, but you can attribute C-Peps decline to Randy Moss leaving as well.  he could no longer just chuck it down field and have Randy out jump everyone.

 

Just saying, he wasnt as good as everyone thought.

 

Moss had the worst year of his career in Culpepper's best year and Culpepper made Nate Burleson look like a stud WR. I don't have a clue what happened to Daunte in 2005, he was struggling even before he got hurt.

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joe

joe

Posted
Posted

A beautifully written analysis.  Yes they are different, but his early success (and Randy Moss) spoiled Culpepper who, at the time, I was very disappointed that the skins could not draft.  Culpepper was huge, I remember blitzing D-backs literally bouncing off him.  After his knee injury, he was never the same. 

RGIII has never had to follow a passing tree and last year did not really need to because his first option was almost always there for him.  Without an offseason to work, he was not ready for this season.  The thing is, I believe that had Cousins not been injured in the preseason, he would have started game one and possibly the next three.  Then RGIII could have come in after the bye healthier and we would have had a much different season. 

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Tulane Skins Fan

Tulane Skins Fan

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It should be noted that Brees did more than things with focus.  He worked on his mechanics with a pitching coach, and it was found that he had significant food allergies that he didn't know of before.

 

http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050111/news_1s11sullivan.html

http://atlantasportsnutrition.com/2012/03/13/drew-brees-talks-food-allergies/

 

Whoever we hire should get RG3 vaccinated on day 1.

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  • 11 months later...
Boss_Hogg

Boss_Hogg

Posted
Posted

Bob may turn around his career in some place like Arizona where the pressure is less. He doesn't seem to be someone who can thrive in a high pressure situation or under the national spotlight. He's too concerned with the opinion of his doubters.

 

It may also help to get away from a toxic man like Snyder. We all know Snyder is up Robert's ass, just like he was with Arrington and Portis. 

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