One Fans Look to the Future:Robert Griffin

[darrelgreenie]

......Robert, while a rare talent, is still human....

.....I have the utmost faith and confidence in Robert, and I promise you, he will be back and better than ever.

I kinda parsed out the segments that pertain to this thread.

 

Anyways here are more looks at RGIII 'pocket passing'

[bradboyd80]

IMO, this will be a good thing for RG3. I also agree he is being humbled right now. His position hasn't been challenged. He was the starter at Baylor, and was the unquestioned starter from day 1 here. Sometimes, simply struggling isn't enough. Being put on the shelf until next year and having to watch the backup come in and play for a couple of weeks will (hopefully) make him hungry. Hopefully he goes into the offseason with a lot of determination and comes in next year with much better mechanics and ready to light the league up. 

[darrelgreenie]

IMO, this will be a good thing for RG3....

Read the OP fellas, there are plenty of other threads for that.

 

Any comment about Griffin's skillset?

 

Or what direction you want his development to take?

 

Or what style of offense suits him best going forward?

 

Any comments about his footwork rom his pro-day in comparison to the footwork of Joe Montana in the Bill Walsh teaching video?

 

Or the differences in skillset and development between Nick Foles and Griffin?

[bradboyd80]

Yep. My apologies DG. Reading comprehension is not my friend at the moment (just pulled an all nighter to study for a big test today). 

 

I would have to agree that he absolutely has the skillsets to be great (good footwork, quick release, etc). Foles looked so sluggish in his pro day video, so as you said, he has come further than RG3 at this point. I'm not a huge X's and O's guy, so there's probably not much I can contribute. But I do believe that with a full offseason to work on his mechanics, we will see a huge improvement next year. 

[darrelgreenie]

No I hear yah bro, just want a thread that is free from all the drama right now you know?

Just want a thread where there can be a focus on the skillset of the one bankable assest we have going forward.

And everytime I watch Griffin's skillset I am reassured that we'll be okay going forward because his potential is limitless.

[Koolblue13]

Great thread DG. Robert came from a college system, where he basically was able to just chuck it or run away. Very simple. Pretty obvious that he needed to learn this offseason. You can see it on gameday. When he stops thinking about it, the offense clicks and we run down the field. Kyle is one of the top OCs in the league and Mike is a good HC for a talented QB. I think he can really develop into the star he should be if the continuity remains.

[Prototype]

Read the OP fellas, there are plenty of other threads for that.

 

Any comment about Griffin's skillset?

 

Or what direction you want his development to take?

 

Or what style of offense suits him best going forward?

 

Any comments about his footwork from his pro-day in comparison to the footwork of Joe Montana in the Bill Walsh teaching video?

 

Or the differences in skillset and development between Nick Foles and Griffin?

 

Griffin has had to be one of the best prospects I've seen coming out of college, as far as skillset is concerned. Mike Mayock (NFL Network's lead Draft analyst) even said he was a "Natural Thrower", and had one of the quickest and best releases he's seen, complete with accuracy and touch. Last thing I wanted to mention was his 4.38 speed, but add that dimension to the above analysis, and you've got a rare talent.

 

The few concerns scouts had were about his footwork in a pro style offense, specifically under-center, and the different step dropbacks associated with it. 

 

Now, his Pro-Day proved he wasn't perfect, but it was definitely evident that he could grasp the basics of a pro style dropback under center. Mind you, this is in a less pressure environment, at his college, with tennis shorts and no defenses, but in the end it did nothing to hurt his marks, only increase them.

 

As far a a developmental standpoint (from his current state), Griffin seems to not know WHEN or WHERE to get rid of the ball. His O-Line isn't helping (Time or Pocket-wise), but it's still not an excuse for any QB who wants to be ELITE.  If his read's aren't open, he panics, and assumes he can make a play with his legs. He got away with it last year, but with the knee brace definitely took his escapabilty away. He has to get rid of it quick, or go down, not only to live and fight another down, but save himself too. 

 

I've also noticed (as did Gruden/Collinsworth) that the few times he DID MANAGE to get away, he wasn't looking downfield to make a bigger play. He assumed he had *enough* speed still to pick up the yards and a first down, instead of hitting open receivers in broken coverage. If he learns to keep his eyes downfield after buying time, he will really be a pain in the ass to ANY defense, no matter what they're *ranked*.

 

I left out the part of Griffin missing open receivers by a WIDE margin (from a count standpoint, it really wasn't that many times), but I'm giving him a pass since he had no offseason and was throwing on a repaired knee with a brace. From a development standpoint, he had the accuracy before, he hasn't lost it. He will get it back. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

 

Moving forward to now what style offense best suits him, hear me out:

 

I've given it some thought, and was against it at first, but I believe he is best suited in a Spread, multiple-wideout set offense. If Griffin is comfortable with it (did it in college), and he can make all the throws from that set, why not use it a lot? All it really is is lining up in a shotgun majority of the time, but just spreading the field out with more receivers on the field. Peyton Manning, lines up in a Shotgun-Spread set, usually with 3 WRs, majority of the time. If one of the Greatest of all Time uses it, it's certainly worth a shot. 

 

While there (always) should still be at least a few formations from under-center, just for situational and change-up circumstances, if the spread offense moves the ball and puts up points, why not make it RG3's staple? Even the Read-Option is available from this set. As soon as he masters it, he will able to make his own adjustments on the fly.

 

Some of you are about to crucify me for what I'm about to say, but Alfred Morris isn't the back we would need for this offense. Don't get me wrong, I love Almo to death, and love his tough down-hill running, but he is best suited in the Shanahan one-cut and go zone-stretch offense.

 

In the Spread, it would be in our best interest to land a running back with a skillset similar to LeSean McCoy. Now, I hate philthy as much as the next guy, but you've got to be blatantly ignorant to not see Shady is one of the most phenomenal backs in the game today. A back that is quick, and shifty really benefits from all the space he is given when the offense is "Spread" out, since defenses cannot load up the box with all the respect to the speed across the field. Go back and watch highlights of McCoy, and you'll find every single one of his big runs came out of a spread formation (with even the QB lining up under center at times).

 

Oh by the way, a guy by the name of Barry Sanders (whom people often compare McCoy to) also excelled when he was in a spread formation. I want to note, Barry's worst games where when they tried to utilize him in a power run scheme with a fullback, and defenses just loaded the box, swallowing any potential space before Barry could get there. As soon as they started getting back to spreading out the field where Barry could create with space, that was the year I believe he broke the 2,000 yard mark.

 

I know that talking RB's is getting off topic a bit, but I wanted to use the above mentioned in contrast with the current offense and RG3's success and future. Shanahan's system relies heavily on the run and play action pass, and while the rushing yards speak for themselves, I feel it's not translating well for Griffin in the passing game.

 

I'm no Defensive Coordinator, but if I can load the box and stop the run, I'm not intimidated by only 2 WRs off possible play action. I can have my front 7 both take away the run and apply pressure, and at the same blanket the 2 wideouts. I saw this TIME and TIME again after going back watching tape, esp. in the SF, DAL, KC games. Griffin sees no one open (still holds the ball too long, though, needs to improve) and panics. Shanahan constantly uses the 2 WR pistol formation, and while adding the read-option wrinkle, defenses just aren't intimidated by it anymore. They load the box to stop the run, and have the receiving options negated. Some of Robert's best plays (and throws) where made out of multiple receiver sets. He shows way more confidence and decisiveness when he has more options.

 

While Shanahn's system without a question produces in the run game, I'm sure you've heard over and over that this is becoming a passing league, and his style is going the way of the Dodo. Most teams don't even utilize a FB anymore. A spread offense with a single back is a more modern, versatile attack in today's NFL.

 

To wrap up I've been ranting about, I believe it is in Robert's best interest for the future to get a HC that utilizes the Spread more. If we can get a competent O-Line that can pass protect, a running back (doesn't HAVE to be a Barry Sanders caliber) that exceeds in a spread, Robert Griffin III could be the MAESTRO of an offensive masterpiece. This is the type of offense he was born to be in.

 

It's no coincidence that Nick Foles is exceeding in this kind of system (Chip Kelly?) with the pieces he has around him. Foles had an offseason to progress his skills and improve in his weaker areas, which happened to be decision making, field vision, and footwork. These are exactly the problems Griffin is currently struggling with.

 

Griffin, instead, had an offseason of rehabbing his knee and not working on these aspects. There was no way he could improve in these areas without participating in live drills that he wasn't cleared for.  Are you trying to tell me Robert Griffin III, who was rated one of the best prospects ever, can't improve his game and succeed in this style of offense? BULL****! If Foles did it, RG3 sure as hell can.

 

He has the raw talent. He showed it all through College, at his Pro-Day, and in 2012. He knows what he needs to improve on, he's not dumb either. He just needs the right offense/personnel and a productive offseason. Then he will be just flat out DANGEROUS.

 

He will persevere, and his future is bright. He is a born competitor, and a natural leader. Just ask his teammates.

 

I understand this is a lot words to go through so I tried to bold main points for those who just want to skim through, but I will tell you a I did put a LOT of work into this for the past 5 hours(watched gametape, research, etc) to let you know I'm just not pulling things out of my ass.

 

Damn, this took a while, and now I have to go to work, I haven't even slept....  hopefully, I managed to touch on MOST of what DG intended to discuss... maybe not 

 

 

 

 

Oh and one more thing.......... RG3! RG3! RG3!

[fordranger76]

I would like to know if he or the line is the one that calls the protections? Can anyone tell me who is in charge of that? Also does he have full charge of audibles or no? I think that has been some of the problems for him this year. If they are on his shoulders I would love to see him work on those two things more than anything. Basically recognizing a defense better for both of the situations.

[gortiz]

this ... 

 

and only this ... 

 

this is where Robert need to be!!

 

http://deadspin.com/this-is-the-peyton-manningest-photo-of-peyton-manning-1481431619?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

Greenie, I wanted to say, most people will freak, but I agree on the Montana comparison, at least wiht the drop back and the similarities ... 

[Going Commando]

That's an awesome post Prototype. Hats off to you.

[Mad Mike]

 

 

And this year for whatever reason Griffin still isn't/hasn't been developed further.

 

Holy crap. The wording here is just amazing. Evidently griffin bears no responsibility for his own development and the author is unaware that he was in rehab last season rather than the film room  or working with coaches on his QB mechanics and play.

[Sekhmet187]

Holy crap. The wording here is just amazing. Evidently griffin bears no responsibility for his own development and the author is unaware that he was in rehab last season rather than the film room  or working with coaches on his QB mechanics and play.

 

Yes because you know, coaches can't help during the season, like call an entire game of plays that involve quick and short passes to get a QB in rhythm for a full game, or stop abandoning random plays that work.

 

But I'm not going to hijack the thread. Griffin has always been rather accurate, so I think once he gets more comfortable in his knee and health, his plant foot will be used more naturally and he'll stop floating passes. He definitely has the arm to make hard throws, so once he gets his accuracy back, he'll be able to focus on his pocket awareness as well.

[Going Commando]

And just to add a general observation to the thread, I don't see RGIII becoming a Brees/Manning style QB. I see much more of a Rodgers/Roethsliberger type QB. He's going to take hits. He's going to hold onto passes. But get him weapons and a good system and good coaching and he's going to make a TON of plays. His greatest genius is his spontaneous playmaking ability. It's as good as it gets.

[gortiz]

Griffin, instead, had an offseason of rehabbing his knee and not working on these aspects. There was no way he could improve in these areas without participating in live drills that he wasn't cleared for.  Are you trying to tell me Robert Griffin III, who was rated one of the best prospects ever, can't improve his game and succeed in this style of offense? BULL****! If Foles did it, RG3 sure as hell can.

 

 You nailed here Prototype ...nailed it. 

 

I don't see this brought up enough - and don't tell me it has, because I read this damn board a lot and when one takes into consideration the "reasons" on ES for RG3's regression this year, this is not brought up nearly enough. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Hey Greenie, 

 

Ya' think it's worth  a thread on why Shanahan is the single worst Coach we've ever had, all things considered, given many still unbelievably support him?

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know this is a super simple statement.  But many have said and it was obvious watching Baylor is not only does RG3 have a rocket of an arm but he has a super accurate deep ball.  I think he more the most QBs would benefit of having a real deep threat who can take the top off of defenses.  He needs his Redskins version of K. Wright or T. Williams.  Imagine RG3 with a Josh Gordon?

[Sekhmet187]

I know this is a super simple statement.  But many have said and it was obvious watching Baylor is not only does RG3 have a rocket of an arm but he has a super accurate deep ball.  I think he more the most QBs would benefit of having a real deep threat who can take the top off of defenses.  He needs his Redskins version of K. Wright or T. Williams.  Imagine RG3 with a Josh Gordon?

 

That might not be too hard to do next season, considering it may not be too likely Cleveland keeps him as they rebuild yet again, (at least that was some of the buzz with Browns' fans not too long ago). 

[Mad Mike]

Yes because you know, coaches can't help during the season, like call an entire game of plays that involve quick and short passes to get a QB in rhythm for a full game, or stop abandoning random plays that work.

 

But I'm not going to hijack the thread. Griffin has always been rather accurate, so I think once he gets more comfortable in his knee and health, his plant foot will be used more naturally and he'll stop floating passes. He definitely has the arm to make hard throws, so once he gets his accuracy back, he'll be able to focus on his pocket awareness as well.

 

NO. During the season, coaches DO NOT have the time to work on the same details they would during the off season. They are too busy preparing for each new opponent and game plan.

 

And NO. There are no magical plays that will make a QB better. You can't call all short passes and three step drops because defenses will adjust and shut that down. Call the best play in the world but if RG3 stares down the receiver and a lineman sees him and bats the ball down, it looks like a bad play on TV. 

 

I have no idea what these "random plays" are that you think are being ignored. That's OK, I doubt that you do either. Feel free to prove me wrong and give us an example.

 

I have no doubt that RG3 will be a great QB. But right now he sucks and other than the mistake (by his own admission) of not pulling him last year in the Seahawks game, it is NOT Shanahan's fault.

 

Oh, and my prediction for next week... Moderate improvement for the offense. Cousins doesn't have the extreme talent of RG3 but he is solid and can run the offense with some efficiency.

 

My other prediction.... Shanahan haters will continue to blame him for all failures and attribute all successes to individual players.

[Mad Mike]

I know this is a super simple statement.  But many have said and it was obvious watching Baylor is not only does RG3 have a rocket of an arm but he has a super accurate deep ball.  I think he more the most QBs would benefit of having a real deep threat who can take the top off of defenses.  He needs his Redskins version of K. Wright or T. Williams.  Imagine RG3 with a Josh Gordon?

 

Here's where it is neither Shanahan's fault nor Griffin's... With our cap, and draft situation we have had to settle for minimum upgrades in order to address all of our needs rather than filling holes with great talent. With that said, our R Tackle situation is in bad need of another upgrade. We can't protect RG3 enough to take as many deep shots as we would like.

 

Although I must admit, I'm interested to see the results when Cousins is calling protections because I have heard several analysts say that RG3's calling of the wrong protection has led to quite a few of the sacks he has taken.

[gortiz]

I've 

 

Hey Greenie, 

 

Ya' think it's worth  a thread on why Shanahan is the single worst Coach we've ever had, all things considered, given many still unbelievably support him?

 

Hail. 

 

You know, talking about coaches, I've always been fascinated on how Walsh handled Montana early on.  I remember hearing that his rookie year, he only inserted him into red zone plays, or only in situations that he practiced all week. 

 

I wonder how that would be viewed now a days? I know Cool Joe was "only" a 3rd round pick but I always felt that was a crazy unique way to handle a rookie QB.  I mean, the words Walsh threw around, "spoon feed", "care and feed a QB" ect. etc.  I did a little research and here is what I came up with ... 

 

 Walsh knew that his prize rookie was up to the task, but was careful not to ruin his confidence by subjecting the young quarterback to untenable circumstances. When Montana did play in his rookie season and early in his second, it was in carefully selected situations. "We didn't want to throw him to the wolves," Walsh said. "We thought it was important to give him moments of success early, to build his confidence." Midway through his second season, Walsh made the move and designated Joe the regular starter. He played well; completing 176 passes for 1,795 yards and 15 touchdowns. But it was only a small prelude of the successes that were to follow.  http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.aspx?RELEASE_ID=721&title=The+Best+Ever%3F+The+story+of+%27Joe+Cool%27&print=y

 

That first season (1979), Joe saw very limited action after the preseason. Walsh’s plan was to “spoon feed” Montana. “It was a matter of developing his readiness by using him in situations where he had a good chance to be successful,” Bill explained. Walsh had seen a lot of players at the position demoralized by too much early exposure to the NFL pass rush and wanted to avoid that at all costs. Usually, he would insert Joe into games in the second quarter for a series.

 

“In practice,” Bill remembered, “we worked repeatedly on specific plays with Joe. When he was placed in a game, we called only those plays, because he could be confident that he could execute them.” He was also used in situations where his mobility was called for. http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/in-grooming-colin-kaepernick-is-jim-harbaugh-channeling-bill-walsh/

 

 

One of the most fascinating chapters in Building a Champion is titled "The Care and Feeding of Quarterbacks," which contains Walsh's description of how a young quarterback should be mentored. Too many coaches rush young quarterbacks on to the field before they are ready, which forces those players to endure a physical (and mental) pounding that may permanently damage their chances to have long term success. Walsh brought Montana along patiently and only put him on the field in situations where Montana could be successful. Journeyman Steve DeBerg was the starter for most of Montana's first two seasons. During practice, Walsh and the coaching staff started Montana off with a small number of plays that they knew that he could execute well and when they put him into games they ran just those plays, building up not only Montana's self-confidence but also the confidence that his teammates had in him. http://besteversportstalk.blogspot.com/2007/07/three-time-super-bowl-champion-coach.html

 

 

pretty stark comparison to what Robert is going through now ... but maybe with this rest he resets, he recharges, he gets motivated, and the next coach brings him along like Walsh brought along Joe. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I want to see us spread people out more.  Go for the Air Raid attack and never look back.  Run Morris more in 4 WR sets.

 

To do this we need more WRs.  The guy nobody mentions that I think has been sorely missed the last few weeks has been Hankerson.  I hope we grab another playmaker in FA.

 

But Griff's combo of finesse, accuracy, arm strength, and world class speed is a package I've never seen before.  And he has a lightning quick release.  I hope he dumps the brace next year, if he is medically cleared to do so.  

 

I'd like to see us run less RO.  If we spread people out, Griff will have plenty of chances to "humble" defenses when he bursts up the middle for long runs.

 

I think the injury was part of the conversation when the year started, when it really should've been the entire conversation.  As the year has gone on, it has become less of the conversation to the point where people don't even mention it anymore when critiquing his play.

 

Griff's a smart kid.  He'll figure it out.  I really don't have any doubts about that. 

[BraunMan92]

I don't care how talented he is - if he refuses to travel to Atlanta his captaincy should be removed.

[darrelgreenie]

this ... 

 

and only this ... 

 

this is where Robert need to be!!

 

http://deadspin.com/this-is-the-peyton-manningest-photo-of-peyton-manning-1481431619?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

Greenie, I wanted to say, most people will freak, but I agree on the Montana comparison, at least wiht the drop back and the similarities ... 

A mental rep is still a rep, if i didn't hate Peyton Manning I would love him.

 

Walsh wrote that he could tell how a QB played by watching their feet. Walsh has described a QB footwork in terms of opera/ballet and I believe there is an element of Baryshnikov to their game.

And I don't mean to sound artsy but there is a grace and lightness to the way both players move. Griffin also adds an element of power and explosion to his footwork also.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I don't care how talented he is - if he refuses to travel to Atlanta his captaincy should be removed.

 

Wait. What?

 

When did this development happen?

 

Hail. 

[darrelgreenie]

Prototype-an apropo name because of the quality of your post. lol, its better then the OP.

I want to take my time and give it the well thought out reply it deserves.