darrelgreenie Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 ...Sounds like he likes to stretch the D to open things up. You can see why Haslett was so predictable to open our game against them. Coaching scared of the deep ball and still getting burned deep I look forward to seeing Griff opening it up downfield. Dalton has limited arm strength and his deep ball throwing ability pales in comparison to Griff's. If Grudes is chucking it downfield 15% of the time with Dalton, I can't wait to see how much he chucks it deep with Griffin. RE:Dalton's time in the pocket from snap to throw... Griffin has a lightening quick release and like Dalton, spent most of his time at Baylor throwing 'quick game' i.e. spread formation quick rhythm passing concepts. Throwing quick on rhythm should be right up his alley. And compared to Dalton, Griffin was much more efficient passer (#2 behind Russell Wilson 2011) and imho efficiency is by product of good decision making. If Grudes can get Dalton to lead the NFL in snap to throw time (2.24s) then I think Griffin's time from snap to throw (2.66s) will decrease significantly. Dalton's super low time from snap to throw bodes well for our OL, it takes the pressure off them to pass protect which reduces the urgency and cost for replacing the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I look forward to seeing Griff opening it up downfield. Dalton has limited arm strength and his deep ball throwing ability pales in comparison to Griff's. If Grudes is chucking it downfield 15% of the time with Dalton, I can't wait to see how much he chucks it deep with Griffin. RE:Dalton's time in the pocket from snap to throw... .... I am psyched to see our new offense and all that Gruden has to offer. While the Haz retention may have some seeing a black cloud over the hire, I have no such concerns. As bad as Haslett is or was I can say since Richie Petitibon left, no DC we have had impressed me more for 1 year and a full year was rare. While the NFC features defensive teams that we will face in a bowl run, even the best defensive teams can be beat by a good offense and our stock is in our O and all signs point to Gruden being a great fit thus far. I remain optimistic with our current staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I am psyched to see our new offense and all that Gruden has to offer................all signs point to Gruden being a great fit thus far. I remain optimistic with our current staff. I am optimistic about the offense too especially the passing game/Griffin. I'll be more optimistic about the defense after I see what happens in FA/draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 The more I watch the Bengals games the more I'm convinced that Griffin is gonna put up very good numbers and the less I'm convinced that Dalton is futher along then Griffin when it comes to going through progressions and the less I'm convinced we'll be a balanced offense that features Alfred Morris.The Bengals offense does a good job of getting the ball out quick and the ball goes to the 1st option a lot. I don't want to make a conclusion based on one game but if you look at the playoff interceptions Dalton made I would argue it was because he couldn't/didn't turn down or come off his 1st read. All QBs do this from time to time but from watching the games of their Bengals offense and looking at some of the interceptions Dalton throws and even going back to college. Dalton is more apt to force it to his 1st read then Griff.And contrary to popular perception Griffin is capable of coming off his 1st receiver and working his way through his progressions. Not all the time, but enough to where his 'pocket passing' ability shouldn't be in question unless those people have the same view Dalton's pocket passing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 One thing Cooley brought up recently is that studying the Seahawks offense, its clear to him that they practice unscripted plays meaning their WRs have a certain method to how they go about their businesses when a play breaks down to help Wilson. Conversely, Cooley said the Redskins didn't practice going off script --- he suggested they should have. He made a similar point related to the 49ers and Kaepernick, saying their O line moves in unison with him when he gets out of pocket to open a running lane and protect him. Conversely, he said the Redskins O line doesn't do the same -- as he put it, if RG3 starts going off script and darts out of pocket, he's on his own, the O line rarely follows. More or less what Cooley has said is both the 49ers and Seahawks are sophisticated about preparing their team to exploit and help their QB's when plays break down. And the Redskins not only aren't sophisticated about the same dynamic -- they don't even bother to give it ANY attention and preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 One thing Cooley brought up recently is that studying the Seahawks offense, its clear to him that they practice unscripted plays meaning their WRs have a certain method to how they go about their businesses when a play breaks down to help Wilson. Conversely, Cooley said the Redskins didn't practice going off script --- he suggested they should have. He made a similar point related to the 49ers and Kaepernick, saying their O line moves in unison with him when he gets out of pocket to open a running lane and protect him. Conversely, he said the Redskins O line doesn't do the same -- as he put it, if RG3 starts going off script and darts out of pocket, he's on his own, the O line rarely follows. More or less what Cooley has said is both the 49ers and Seahawks are sophisticated about preparing their team to exploit and help their QB's when plays break down. And the Redskins not only aren't sophisticated about the same dynamic -- they don't even bother to give it ANY attention and preparation. One aspect of the offense I want to see improve is the scramble. I know the immediate thought is that teams don't practice the scramble. But, I know Bill Walsh did with the 49ers and Cooley mentioned on his radio show how Kyle doesn't practice scramble drill/rules very often. And he also mentioned how the Eagles/Reid practiced scramble rules for almost every pass play. Bill Walsh-Finding the Winning Edge: Planning for Situations When the Quarterback is Forced to Scramble Although a scrambling quarterback is usually indicative of the fact that an offensive breakdown of some sort has occured, establishing guidlines for the quarterback to follow in this situation can salvage a positive outcome on the play...... Anticipated that one in five drop-back passes will result in a scramble. As a consequence, considerable practice time should be allotted to this aspect of the game...... I am not sure where Grudes falls on the continuim of practicing scramble concepts. I would imagine that John wouldn't spend much more time on it then the Shanahan's. But thankfully Jay isn't his brother. Coming from the area league maybe? But, regardless of how Jay manages the broken play concepts I have confidence in his ability to construct an offense built on the passing game. I think Griffin is gonna put near pro-bowl numbers (provided we get another receiving option). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I am not sure where Grudes falls on the continuim of practicing scramble concepts. I would imagine that John wouldn't spend much more time on it then the Shanahan's. But thankfully Jay isn't his brother. Coming from the area league maybe? But, regardless of how Jay manages the broken play concepts I have confidence in his ability to construct an offense built on the passing game. I think Griffin is gonna put near pro-bowl numbers (provided we get another receiving option). Who do you like if any of the FA Wrs? Looks like a deep draft for Wrs, too. When it comes to RG3 he had some good games mid season or so and then things went south -- maybe a coincidence or maybe not but the team seemed to struggle without Reed and Hankerson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 (from Jan 18) I think they’re in the top 10 the last couple years, so they have a system in place that’s very good. They’re an outside zone blocking team that can do inside zone. I like the power plays. I like the gap blocking plays. So there’s a little bit of everything. I don’t think any offense in the NFL anymore is just, ‘We are this.’ I think we have to adhere to what we have offensively, talent-wise. We can do the read option. We can do naked bootlegs. We can run outside zone. We can run bubble screens. We can run deep balls. We can do play-action deep things. I think the whole idea to be a successful offense is to be diverse and be good at a lot of different things and not just one.” http://realredskins.com/2014/01/18/will-the-redskins-move-away-from-zone-blocking/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkskin Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Career thus far: 36 td's 17 ints Relax...not too shabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Listened to Chris Russell this week who has said he'd had multiple recent conversations with RG3. And Russell has been critical of RG3 this season so he's far from a homer for the QB. He basically said the dude is obsessed with winning a SB, understands what that would mean for the city, has already a very good relationship Gruden. He added he is self-critical and knows what he needs to work on to elevate his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 don't mean to shoot the messenger here... Listened to Chris Russell this week who has said he'd had multiple recent conversations with RG3. And Russell has been critical of RG3 this season so he's far from a homer for the QB. He basically said the dude is obsessed with winning a SB, understands what that would mean for the city, has already a very good relationship Gruden. He added he is self-critical and knows what he needs to work on to elevate his game.So basically Mike's brainwashing is starting to wear off and now that Russell sees what everyone else already knew about RG3 Russell thinks its news? Those statements from Russell while true deserve the: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 don't mean to shoot the messenger here... So basically Mike's brainwashing is starting to wear off and now that Russell sees what everyone else already knew about RG3 Russell thinks its news? Those statements from Russell while true deserve the: Agree, but yeah Russell and Sheehan and Loverro were so anti-RG3, that they have been depressing to listen to at times. And I've sent them emails on it recently. Heck even Czaben and Dukes who are among the most negative on the team, have mostly a positive spin on RG3 or at least more positive than those guys. I think a big part of it with Sheehan and Russell was them being big time Shanny homers. The way Shanny played his cards this year is if you believe in Shanny you got to likewise scapegoat RG3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsInFebruary Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am not sure where Grudes falls on the continuim of practicing scramble concepts. I would imagine that John wouldn't spend much more time on it then the Shanahan's. But thankfully Jay isn't his brother. Coming from the area league maybe? But, regardless of how Jay manages the broken play concepts I have confidence in his ability to construct an offense built on the passing game. I think Griffin is gonna put near pro-bowl numbers (provided we get another receiving option). If we spend our resources acquiring OL you'll see the recievers we have become great options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 If we spend our resources acquiring OL you'll see the recievers we have become great options. Got my doubts about that. Santana if back is 35 and not exactly coming off of a stellar year, his ranking from PFF is bad, and was one of the league leaders in drops per attempt according to John Keim. Morgan through his whole career has yet to establish himself as a strong #2 option and is coming off of a bad year where according to Cooley studying him on film, it didn't look like he was trying very hard. You got Hankerson who has yet to establish himself as a #2, and coming off of major knee surgery, who knows if he will even be ready for the season. Then we got 6th rounder, one trick pony, Aldrick Robinson. Yeah its possible that one of these guys emerges but I wouldn't put money on it. Not saying Cooley is correct but he's no dummy when it comes to offense -- he believes as bad as the defense was last year, the team's top priority is to find a #2 WR -- he says that guy isn't on the roster now. Conversly, Cooley thinks the O line is average and doesn't see it as a top concern, though he'd like to upgrade at least one spot in the interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've been meaning to post this for awhile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzaJ3Yuchh0 2010 Rose Bowl-Andy Dalton Might add to the OP. Point being Dalton played in a spread-zone read offense same as Robert. Dalton was not what people consider a 'pocket passer' (lol whatever that means) in college. Grudes did a good job developing Dalton as a 'pocket passer' in his rookie year. Just more evidence that Grudes and Griffin is gonna work, and work very well in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 ...So what are your thoughts on us going to a quick passing attack? Good for Griffin? Does our personnel match up with this? How does it need to change if it doesn't?... I think a quick passing attacks suits Griffin quite well. To my eye on a Griffin's strength is his quick release. The past 2 years we've had great success when Griff is gripping and ripping quick throws from the pocket. Think 1st half of the Giants game. We're gonna need more weapons though. We're gonna lose our supposed #2 WR in Morgan. Tana is in limbo. Hankerson is coming off another major injury. Fred Davis is gone. Right now we have: Garcon, Reed, Hank, Aldrick, Helu, Paulsen.....compared to AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Gresham, Pettigrew, Gio Over the course of this thread different aspects of the offense going forward were discussed and Gruden checks off most of the boxes: - west coast offense philosophy+verbiage -zone-read -spread formations -deep passing -quick game passing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Personally I'd like to see us get Boldin as the #2 but i dont think he is going to leave the 49ners. He is such a huge target and catches anything he gets a hand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Personally I'd like to see us get Boldin as the #2 but i dont think he is going to leave the 49ners. He is such a huge target and catches anything he gets a hand on. Solid receiver but he's almost 34.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was planning on doing a breakdown of the Bengals offense. I stumbled upon this series today: http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/2/3/5366674/hazards-huddle-jay-grudens-tds-in-2013-week-1-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was planning on doing a breakdown of the Bengals offense. I stumbled upon this series today: http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/2/3/5366674/hazards-huddle-jay-grudens-tds-in-2013-week-1-5 Thats a good find and a nice breakdown by the writer. I watched the Bears and Steelers games last week on All 22 - I had noticed the 4 vertical concepts a few times. My impression was that the passing game was based around a core of plays designed to get the ball out quickly (mainly out of shotgun) and called shots with a check down. Despite the quick passes the offense seemed designed to get chunk plays out of the passing game and was what I would consider more of a vertical passing game than horizontal. There was not much of an intermediate passing game though and not much evidence of Dalton making full field reads after the snap and going through progressions. He seemed to pick a receiver based on his pre snap read and seemed to have a hard time coming off that first read. I'm pretty excited by what Gruden could do with RGIII in this system. I'd feel even more excited if he was bringing AJ Green with him .... Other thoughts I have are that Helu could catch a lot more balls in Grudens system and that Morris will get less carries. I expect there to be games when we have a ton of posts afterwards complaining about the lack of balance in the play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 ....There was not much of an intermediate passing game though and not much evidence of Dalton making full field reads after the snap and going through progressions. He seemed to pick a receiver based on his pre snap read and seemed to have a hard time coming off that first read.(from earlier)Looking at the Bengals offense in the all-22 I honestly think Dalton isn't further along then Griffin as a progression read QB. Or if he is its not by much. The Bengals offense (2013) by design throws very quick (i mean top the NFL qiuck) and consequently the ball often goes to the 1st read. So maybe this skews Dalton's advancement in going through progressions? But, in my honest opinion hand on the stove objective opinion I don't think Dalton is further along then Griffin as a progression reading QB and if he is it isn't by a significant margin. Pass/Run ratio w/Grudes: 2013-54.96/45.04 2012-55.67/44.33 2011-55.04/45.96 Grudes current pass/run ratio was under the guidance of a NFL head coach that philosophically wants to run the ball. I think its a safe bet that once given the reigns himself a former QB with a pupil like Griffin that he will pass in keeping with his previos ratio or pass more. I can't imagine a scenario where a paradigm shift happens and he becomes Darrell Bevel or the (denver) Mike Shanahan. I am holding out hope though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I missed the interview but I'll go back and catch it Kevin @HTTR24_7 18h Check out D.Hall's interview with Doc & Bmitch here http://www.espn980.com/audiovault/# Kevin @HTTR24_7 18h D.Hall on RGIII " What he loves is Jay's willingness to kind of let him be him. There is not going to be any restrictions on him.." Kevin @HTTR24_7 18h D.Hall on RGIII " This isn't going to be no read option offense.This is gonna be an offense that's going to be wide open" Kevin @HTTR24_7 18h Hall says JG is throwing everything he can at RG and if he can't pick something up he will back down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 how much of a challenge Griffin faced in trying to start in Week 1 without an offseason or preseason: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/02/21/redskins-coach-jay-gruden-encouraged-by-progress-as-he-and-staff-continue-to-lay-groundwork/ “I played quarterback and I can’t imagine missing all of the offseason, all of training camp and all of the preseason and then all of a sudden, ‘Okay, you’re playing.’ That’s hard. They put a lot of faith in him, as well they should because he’s their guy. But I think that set him back a little bit. It’s very difficult position to play, as well all know, but when you miss that amount of time leading up to your first game, that’ll set you back a little bit. Now, a whole offseason of being healthy, that will help him out.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 He's not being literal, because its not actually true. Griffin didn't miss all the offseason. He didn't muss all of training camp.I personally dislike the questions about Griffin missing training camp/preseason because by week 3 Griffin was playing good football. AND more importantly however subtle the question leads to a narrative that suggests that Griffin's play was the reason for the struggles last season. But, yeah the off season program is going to be important. And its cool that new HC get extra time.Here some nuggets I like for this thread:[Grudes] we just want to give him some chances to see the field a little bit more with some drop-back passes and see how he handles moving forward. I don’t think it was a total wash last year. He did some good things and the more you play, the better you’re going to get and learn from experience, both good and bad.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboy757 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I was reading one of the recent Jay Gruden interviews. His answers are a little to blunt in my opinion. He will definitely have more mics stuck in his face than any of our recent coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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