One Fans Look to the Future:Robert Griffin

[SkinsHokieFan]

Wait. What?

 

When did this development happen?

 

Hail. 

 

Braunman seems to think RG3 is refusing to travel to Atlanta.

 

RG3 will either be there or the Shanny's won't have him traveling. There has been 0 indication that Robert does NOT want to travel to ATL.

 

As for this thread, DG I really want to see Robert climb the pocket properly next year. He has had too much of a tendancy to bail out backwards after his 1st read is covered.

 

Climb the pocket, by time, throw down field. By doing that, he will turn into the surgeoun Dilfer described him as this time 2 years ago

[Dan T.]

New Adidas/RG3 slogan:

 

#All Out for Week 15

[SweetAlfred]

New Nike/RG3 slogan:

 

#All Out for Week 15

 

Nah its still gonna be 'blow it all up' for the 2013 season. Btw I'm pretty sure he's endorsed by Adidas.

[darrelgreenie]

Holy crap. The wording here is just amazing. Evidently griffin bears no responsibility for his own development and the author is unaware that he was in rehab last season rather than the film room  or working with coaches on his QB mechanics and play.

Thank you, if this is your only take away from the entire OP so be it. But this thread is not about the past its a look to the future. Griffin's development is what it is; and the reasons aren't relevant for the OP. Hence "for whatever reason"; but if you're burning to discuss the reasons I'm sure there are plenty of threads for that: http://es.redskins.com/topic/374734-the-easy-way-out-or-why-did-the-offense-feature-read-option/#entry9654713 or you could start a thread all about why.

-Cheers

[darrelgreenie]

                                                                                                                                                                          

And just to add a general observation to the thread, I don't see RGIII becoming a Brees/Manning style QB. I see much more of a Rodgers/Roethsliberger type QB. He's going to take hits. He's going to hold onto passes. But get him weapons and a good system and good coaching and he's going to make a TON of plays. His greatest genius is his spontaneous playmaking ability. It's as good as it gets.

You could be right. I'm guess by Brees/Manning, (Brady) you mean a ultra-efficient get the ball out lightening quick style?

But then again alot of a QBs style of play is based on the system they're in. Prior to Trestman, Cutler would hold the ball quite a bit. When McCoy went to the Chargers River his been getting the ball out of his hands as quickly as I ever seen him. Even Ben has been getting rid of the ball faster working with Haley, although its been a rocky road.

 

But, I do agree that regardless of the system one of Griffin's greatest assests is his playmaking ability:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMm2qGMGV8Q

The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.

 

This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.

-Bill Walsh

http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/WALSH/walsh2qb.htm

 

For me the ultimate outcome would be for Griffin to become a highly efficient QB that gets the ball out quickly who still hurts defenses with his spontaneous genius.

 

The next HC or OC will go a long way in determining which type of QB Griffin becomes.

Which HC/OC candidates would you list in the quick/effiicient category?

For me it would be:

Pete Carmichael, Aaron Kromer, Josh McDaniels (although he's done a lil of everything), Clyde Christensen

[McMVP]

The answer is yes. Sure he can develop his passing technique and become more familiar with being under center. Your main point is the key...he needs a good teacher. He also needs to be able to accept teaching (not sure why he wouldn't...this season has to have been a little humbling for him). His overall talent isn't in question at all...

[TouchdownSkin]

I have complete faith in RG to lead our team. With a full offseason, WR additions, a better OL, and a coach who actually prepares a game plan to highlight his strengths (not running the ball every other down while wearing a knee brace), he will exceed his performance of 2012.

It's BS to say coaches cannot work with/develop a player during the season.

[Prototype]

Everyone on NFL network right now has RG3s back, and I'm surprised his most vocal supporter is Michael Irvin.

Everyone is saying this will be good for him in the future, and he's going to come back with HUGE chip on shoulder and light it up

Darren Sharper and Willie McGuinest said his rookie year was no fluke.

He will be back

EDIT: except Deion, he was being a douche

[Redskins Diehard]

I think Griffin will be fine. and if he got a piece or 2 of humble pie in the last couple of weeks it won't hurt him.

calling him a "kid" is insulting to his development in my opinion. he isn't 12. 23 year olds are all over the battlefield of Iraq and Afghanistan... I'm sure this one can handle this situation

[SweetAlfred]

Look at what happened to Alex Smith when Harbaugh came in and now with Reid.

[skinsdude]

I think Griffin will be fine. and if he got a piece or 2 of humble pie in the last couple of weeks it won't hurt him.

calling him a "kid" is insulting to his development in my opinion. he isn't 12. 23 year olds are all over the battlefield of Iraq and Afghanistan... I'm sure this one can handle this situation

If he can't handle the benching, then we're in trouble. If he's afraid that Kirk will take his job, we're in even bigger trouble.

[Fight for ole DC]

Excellent OP. Great read. I’ve seen the Walsh video before and think it’s a great example for developing a pro QB. The OP is reassuring for the long-term prospects for RG3.

 

The thought crossed my mind that the “benching” of RG3 might be about his development. Yes, keeping him healthy will ensure a full off season for development. But, perhaps more importantly, it might give him a glimpse (and film) of how to play in this system.

 

RG3 clearly holds the ball too long and there is no rhythm to his passing. Kirk Cousins seems to get the ball out of his hands much quicker and has some rhythm. I’m not saying he is perfect but it seems he is further along in his development. Someone said in another thread he may be more ready to play than RG3 at this point. KC starting might be more about demonstrating rhythm passing in this offense than any of the other reasons we’ve heard. Just a thought….

[Going Commando]

I don't see Kirk as being more ready to play than RGIII. He's got less experience than RGIII and he's a worse QB.

Playing Kirk over RGIII right now is Mike Shanahan being Mike Shanahan and jerking his QBs around like he always has. There's a reason why nobody else does it the way he does.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Here's my concern: I dint know what griffins skillet is, or where his head is.

If you tell me that next year he's going to be as explosive, as light if foot, and able to drive off his legs for power in his throws, like he did last year, if say the sky's the limit in just about any offense.

However, I don't know if any of those things are true. I also don't know if ACL #2 has made him tentative when guys are flying around his feet.

So, I'm just not sure about his skillet.

Now, if he comes back next year at the same physical level he played at last year, I'm partial to an offense like the Saints run. Brees gets the ball out in between 2-3 seconds consistently. They run the ball, spread the field and take some shots.

And Brees is about the same size as Griffin. I think Griffin is more physically talented, and with the right coaching and experience, could be just as effective throwing the ball, and could bring the wrinkle of keeping the ball himself as well.

My other thought is that griffins ability to run should be a "plus" to the offense, not something that the offense is based around. In my above example, use something similar to the NOLA offense, but have a few plays designed for Griffin to run as wrinkles, almost like trick plays. But don't base the entire offense off of his running ability. If that makes any sense.

[darrelgreenie]

I want to see us spread people out more.  Go for the Air Raid attack and never look back.  Run Morris more in 4 WR sets.

 

To do this we need more WRs.  The guy nobody mentions that I think has been sorely missed the last few weeks has been Hankerson.  I hope we grab another playmaker in FA.

 

But Griff's combo of finesse, accuracy, arm strength, and world class speed is a package I've never seen before.  And he has a lightning quick release.  I hope he dumps the brace next year, if he is medically cleared to do so.  

 

I'd like to see us run less RO.  If we spread people out, Griff will have plenty of chances to "humble" defenses when he bursts up the middle for long runs.

I'm with on spreading people out. Its what Griffin excelled at in college, he's been good with spread formations in the NFL and the best offenses in the league spread it out.

 

The coaching candidates/coaching staffs that fit the bill for spread for me are:  Tom Clements/Green Bay staff, Josh McDaniels (but he does a lil of everything), Bevell/Seahawks, Linehart/Lions

 

WRs:

 

 

I know this is a super simple statement.  But many have said and it was obvious watching Baylor is not only does RG3 have a rocket of an arm but he has a super accurate deep ball.  I think he more the most QBs would benefit of having a real deep threat who can take the top off of defenses.  He needs his Redskins version of K. Wright or T. Williams.  Imagine RG3 with a Josh Gordon?

If we're lucky we can land someone like Kelvin Benjamin:

 

vv...Puts DB on the ground running a route..vv

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsBWdiRUGAk

 

vv..Big Boy Fade route..vv

[darrelgreenie]

...And Brees is about the same size as Griffin. I think Griffin is more physically talented, and with the right coaching and experience, could be just as effective throwing the ball, and could bring the wrinkle of keeping the ball himself as well.

My other thought is that griffins ability to run should be a "plus" to the offense, not something that the offense is based around. In my above example, use something similar to the NOLA offense, but have a few plays designed for Griffin to run as wrinkles, almost like trick plays. But don't base the entire offense off of his running ability. If that makes any sense.

I'm guessing you're a fan of Pete Carmichael/Aaron Kromer, Josh McDaniels, Clyde Christensen as coaching candidates or if not them in particular the system they come from?

 

In your second paragraph you're describing the difference between our offense and Seattle's.

[Tyron Biggums]

And Brees is about the same size as Griffin. I think Griffin is more physically talented, and with the right coaching and experience, could be just as effective throwing the ball, and could bring the wrinkle of keeping the ball himself as well.

 

Drew Bress 6'0 207 Lbs. RG3 6'2 220 Lbs. Fairly close

 

Hail

[Tyron Biggums]

I'm guessing you're a fan of Pete Carmichael/Aaron Kromer, Josh McDaniels, Clyde Christensen as coaching candidates or if not them in particular the system they come from?

 

In your second paragraph you're describing the difference between our offense and Seattle's.

I really like what McDaniels does with his schemes, but I just don't like the man. I do know this he would be a heck of an upgrade at OC for us. Bevell is interesting, but he doesn't spread the field enough for my liking. Still he would be another huge upgrade.

 

I would love to have Art Briles, and it has nothing to do with his past association with RG3. In fact his offense have gotten better since RG3 won the Heisman. The man is a football genius. If we can land a coach that is 100% committed to utilizing every player's strength, we will see a winning franchise year in and year out.

 

If we hire another ego dictator that dogmatically forces his scheme onto players that don't fit in it, we will be stuck in the mud spinning our tires again.

[Fight for ole DC]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10121701/nfl-rg-iii-victim-own-swagger

 

Here is an interesting article about the decision to bench RG3. It makes a case that some humility will help RG3's development.

[darrelgreenie]

Griffin has had to be one of the best prospects I've seen coming out of college.....Damn, this took a while, and now I have to go to work, I haven't even slept....  hopefully, I managed to touch on MOST of what DG intended to discuss... maybe not  ;)Oh and one more thing.......... RG3! RG3! RG3!

I tried to keep it short but kinda started rambling. But, I got tired of listening to the soap opera of our team.

Looking at the offense going forward I am buoyed by the Eagles and Seahawks offenses. Imho they don’t have a whole lot more receiving talent then we have.

Eagles-DeSeana 65 catches, Cooper 37, McCoy (stud) 40, Celek 25, Ertz 26, Avant 29

Seahawks –Tate 52, Baldwin 43, Miller 28, Kearse 17

Redskins- Garcon 89, Reed 45, Hank 30, Moss 30, Helu 26

Where the Eagles separate themselves from us and the Seahawks is the quality of their OL with 2 solid bookend OTs and solid throughout. But the Seahawks OL has arguably been worse then ours BUT still very productive.

 

Both make use of spread formations. The Eagles are 3+ WR sets a whopping 92% of the time. The Seahawks go 3+ WRs a healthy 76% of the time. And both are very effective in the run game the Seahawks are #3 in the league, the Eagles are #1.

 

They both make use of ZONE-read (we use more of a dive/midline read) to achieve their rushing success. It would be very easy for our running game/OL to switch to a ZONE-read because we already have zone blocking scheme up-front the only change would be for the Griffin and the backs. I could go on and on about why the ZONE-read is so much better then our version of the read-option but imo the key difference is ZONE-read allows the QB to always read the backside DE/contain therefore the QB in a zone-read never bootlegs into an oncoming rusher which often happens to Griff on bootlegs/rollouts. And they mesh the zone-read with spread formations which removes defenders from building the ‘run box’.

 

They get to their success on the ground with different personnel. The Eagles have McCoy who is quick, shifty and elusive. The Hawks have Marshawn Lynch who is a hammer/all around back. But we have both Morris a hammer and Helu is a fast, shifty back that was in a zone-read scheme in college. So I don’t think we need to add anything major in the backfield. If Morris can put up yards against the 8-man fronts he faces he’s gonna be even better against the 6-7 man fronts the spread formations create.

Overall the Seahawks are #3 in points/#12 in yards/ #3 rushing. The Eagles are #9 in points/#4 yards/#1 rushing.

I don’t think I’m wearing burgundy and gold glasses when I say we do have talent on offense. Granted I think we should find out what we have OG/RT with LeRib, Gettis and Compton and if they’re not up to par I would certainly draft/sign a RG/RT. And a WR like Kelvin Benjamin (posted earlier) wouldn’t hurt.

I didn’t look at how much those team were in shotgun, I assume it’s a lot but more for the Hawks then the Eagles. But going forward I think there is some utility for Griffin being under center some. For the sole purpose of getting better at rhythm passing which imo will help his growth in footwork and progression reading. It doesn’t have to be a lot of straight drop back passing. They could start him off doing quick play-action from under center (which he did at Baylor, and he did some last year but not much this year). The Saints do a lot of play-action and roll-outs with Brees when he’s under center. Speaking of the Saints I also want an offense that attacks downfield. I want an offense that attack the seams and makes use of the ‘all-go’ or ‘verticals’ concept to take advantage of Griffin’s deep ball accuracy.

RE: Pro-day/footwork/throwing on the run.

Griffin’s footwork in his pro-day wasn’t perfect. But its was remarkable for a spread QB to display that type of footwork from undercenter. It showed (a) natural aptitude and ( hardwork. Foles was also from a spread offense didn’t display footwork as sharp as Griffin AND I forgot to mention/highlight Foles didn’t even take his pro-day ‘snaps’ from under center. Foles just had the ball in his hand and would pat it to begin the ‘snap’. So when I see Foles, who imo is a good prospect but an inferior talent to Griffin have success it only makes me more bullish on Griffin potential for next year.

One of my pet peeves about Griffin is that he tends to drop his arms when he scrambles. This is bad because he has to bring his arm back up to throw when/if he spots a receiver. This make his scramble throws rushed/inaccurate at times. Griffin should keep his arms in throwing position during his scrambles which make it easier to throw and allows him to use the single greatest weapon a QB has on a scramble the pump fake. I used to pump fake 5-10 yards down field and defender still jumped. But, I’m sure the next staff will coach him up on scramble drill, Bill Walsh used to practice the scramble drill. In fact ‘the catch’ stemmed from those practices.

SUM:

I’m with you on the future offense featuring a lot of spread. Griff was good from spread last year:

(if our WRs are supposedly such good blockers in the run game why do the suck at blocking on WR screens?)

 

Griffin's success from the spread carried over this year and dates back to college were he was outstanding. Heavy use of shotgun isn’t a must for me because I want Griff to get some undercenter work.

Here are some spread%

Griffin/Kyle (spread 3+ WRs) 71%

Russell/Bevell-76%

Brady/McDaniels-79%

Brees/Carmichael-78%

Foles/Pat Shurmur(Chip Kelly)-92%

Stafford/Linehart-89%

I will try to post more spread% and some shotgun% of some of the better offenses...unless anyone wants to add

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

I will try to post more spread% and some shotgun% of some of the better offenses...unless anyone wants to add

 

Working on a Shanahan thang. Sorry. 

 

Your boy blue. 

 

Hail. 

[Going Commando]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10121701/nfl-rg-iii-victim-own-swagger

 

Here is an interesting article about the decision to bench RG3. It makes a case that some humility will help RG3's development.

I can't accept that there is anything wrong with RGIII's personality or that it's a problem on the field in any way. And actually it really pisses me off that this stupid ****ing narrative has gained so much traction and that personality BS like this only ever gets used on black quarterbacks.

It really is as simple as RGIII is getting screwed over and jerked around by a slime ball coach on his way out the door.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I can't accept that there is anything wrong with RGIII's personality or that it's a problem on the field in any way. And actually it really pisses me off that this stupid ****ing narrative has gained so much traction and that personality BS like this only ever gets used on black quarterbacks.

It really is as simple as RGIII is getting screwed over and jerked around by a slime ball coach on his way out the door.

 

shh, you can't discuss or even allude to the fact that a huge chunk of the criticism of RGIII is based on race! we're a post-racial societyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Going Commando]

shh, you can't discuss or even allude to the fact that a huge chunk of the criticism of RGIII is based on race! we're a post-racial societyyyyyyyyyyyy

It's never overt. Which means it doesn't exist apparently.

[PlayAction]

As darrelgreenie noted in his OP the first year offense was awesome.  I think the coaches intended to work on transitioning to new offensive concepts during the offseason.  Obviously, RG3 didn't have an offseason so that didn't happen.  Old offense didn't work anymore because we didn't have the old RG3.  It's not that complicated IMO.  I think RG3 will be much better next year regardless of whether the coach is Shanahan or someone else.  The only question (other than who is going to be the coach) is what will be the style of offense. 

 

With a new coach I don't see the read option happening anymore because RG3 considers a "running" QB to be a loser.  However, I do seem him scrambling quite a bit and exposing himself to injury.  If he regains the ability to extend plays I could see him running something along the lines of the old Philly offense (with a new top notch pass catching RB) and multiple WR sets.