Election 16: Donald Trumps wins Presidency. God Help us all!

[Zguy28]

I don't know how you stimulate openness to assimilating minority populations in a majority population. Tolerance of multiculturalism is something you either have or you don't. It's a fundamental part of someone's psychology/worldview. Most people really don't give a crap about helping immigrants.

I doesn't help when they constantly read about or watch reports on TV how millions of Muslims want to enforce Sharia Law (and do just that) in other parts of the world. Obviously there are millions more who do not want that, but these folks don't know any and they don't see it daily. All they see is ISIS killing people, death penalties for converting from Islam to Christianity etc. A lot are just angry or ignorant or both. They've been conditioned, not wholly by charismatic media like Hannity, but just by the news.

[Going Commando]

My problem is that Trump attacked them FOR THEIR RELIGION. Worse than that, by trying to hit them with an insulting, untrue, stereotype.

My problem is that he attacked them by pulling out a racial (or religious) stereotype.

But I don't see the Republicans disagreeing with his use of a stereotype. It's rather as though, if he'd done the same thing to somebody who wasn't a military family, that would have been OK.

Well it was a complicated insult with several different things that were offensive. I give credit to the GoP leaders who voiced opposition to Trump over this.

To me the real problem is that it was just the GoP elites condemning Trump, and the only people listening to them are liberals and the other elites in the party. They're out of step with their base on the issue. That's the problem. Their is deep seated Islamaphobia throughout the GoP base and I don't think the parties leadership has any hope of changing that. They can't even convince their base to agree to policies/positions that will stop driving away the Hispanic voters that they need to survive long term.

[Zguy28]

Get creative.

1- Consider making language competency a requirement to stay, provide quality free language courses and materials that are easily accessible to where you're settling these large groups of migrants.

2- Cultural immersion courses where immigrants taken through a variety of situations common to their host countries. Ignorance and fear of embarrassment makes people keep to their own. Trust me on this

3- Employment assistance and job training.

4- Hire migrants to serve as community liaisons, empower them.

5- Law/rights education.

6- Free counseling services in their native tongue.

Many of these can be provided through places of worship which are typically already experienced in community outreach. Tell your own people you are doing these things and provide updates on positive milestones. You can't make every hateful person open their hearts but you can blunt the alarmist bull**** by showing leadership is in place and that things aren't just being left to sort themselves out.

I'm not sure how you can deal with the leftists that will pop up arguing that strongly encouraged assimilation assumes cultural superiority and amounts to white supremacy, and they inevitably will. I'm not sure those sorts of people understand culture at all but they sure do like to **** about it.

But Destino, doing it through churches or mosques impedes the secular-humanist progressive agenda from removing religion from the public.

 

BTW, I agree totally.

[visionary]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/sally-bradshaw-jeb-bush-donald-trump-florida/index.html?sr=twCNN080116sally-bradshaw-jeb-bush-donald-trump-florida0437PMStoryLink&linkId=27159928

First on CNN: Top Jeb Bush adviser leaves GOP, will vote for Clinton if Florida close

 

Jeb Bush's top adviser, Sally Bradshaw, has left the Republican Party to become an independent, and says if the presidential race in Florida is close, she'll vote for Hillary Clinton.

 

Bradshaw, who's been close to the former Florida governor for decades and was senior adviser to his 2016 campaign, officially switched her registration to unaffiliated. She told CNN's Jamie Gangel in an email interview that the GOP is "at a crossroads and have nominated a total narcissist -- a misogynist -- a bigot."

 

"This is a time when country has to take priority over political parties. Donald Trump cannot be elected president," Bradshaw said.

 

The departure from the Republican Party of a Bush loyalist -- Bradshaw began her career working for George H.W. Bush's 1988 campaign -- is the latest sign of an influential and respected member of the GOP establishment turning against Trump.

 

"This election cycle is a test," Bradshaw said. "As much as I don't want another four years of (President Barack) Obama's policies, I can't look my children in the eye and tell them I voted for Donald Trump. I can't tell them to love their neighbor and treat others the way they wanted to be treated, and then vote for Donald Trump. I won't do it."

 

Her decision comes amid controversy over Trump's criticism of the family of an Muslim-American soldier killed in action in Iraq in 2004. Bradshaw called that remark "despicable," saying it "made me sick to my stomach."

 

"Donald Trump belittled a woman who gave birth to a son who died fighting for the United States. If anything, that reinforced my decision to become an independent voter," she said.

 

"Every family who loses a loved one in service to our country or who has a family member who serves in the military should be honored, regardless of their political views. Vets and their family have more than earned the right to those views. Someone with the temperament to be president would understand and respect that."

 

Bradshaw said the latest incident reinforced how she was feeling about the decision she's long weighed.

 

"I've been considering the switch for months. Ultimately, I could not abide the hateful rhetoric of Donald Trump and his complete lack of principles and conservative philosophy," she said. "I didn't make this decision lightly -- I have worked hard to make our party a place where all would feel welcome. But Trump has taken the GOP in another direction, and too many Republicans are standing by and looking the other way."

[Aireskoi]

I don't know how you stimulate openness to assimilating minority populations in a majority population. Tolerance of multiculturalism is something you either have or you don't. It's a fundamental part of someone's psychology/worldview. Most people really don't give a crap about helping immigrants.

 

Do you feel those folks had tolerance for the culture they "assimilated" into (in the video I posted)?  I'm not trying to assume anything, but how can we help them assimilate better than they have in Europe, at least based on what we're seeing?  

 

Is it really the majority population that has a problem with multiculturalism here in your view?  Not the ones that refuse to assimilate.

[Zguy28]

Well it was a complicated insult with several different things that were offensive. I give credit to the GoP leaders who voiced opposition to Trump over this.

To me the real problem is that it was just the GoP elites condemning Trump, and the only people listening to them are liberals and the other elites in the party. They're out of step with their base on the issue. That's the problem. Their is deep seated Islamaphobia throughout the GoP base and I don't think the parties leadership has any hope of changing that. They can't even convince their base to agree to policies/positions that will stop driving away the Hispanic voters that they need to survive long term.

Sadly I've seen the same thing in the evangelical church. Many evangelical pastors and leaders denoucing Trump, including many seminary professors, and the church goers are listening to Hannity instead. Its sickening.

[Going Commando]

Get creative.

...

Those a great ideas for encouraging minorities to assimilate into majority cultures. Minorities already have a very strong incentive to do this. And just by dent of making the trip to live in a new land, they demonstrate an openness to different cultures that culls out values of orthodoxy in their populations.

What I was saying is that I don't know how you get the members of the majority culture to accept and facilitate the assimilation of minorities into their society. It's not in their immediate self interest to do so. And a huge portion of the population is extremely closed off to multiculturalism.

[TheGoodBits]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-abc-interview-may-be-his-bestworst-yet/?postshare=4861470066579198&tid=ss_tw

Some stuff we've already seen and some that hasn't been talked about much.

I've yet to see an example where Trump can be asked a question and have him develop a rational, coherent thought on the spot.

[visionary]

Do you feel those folks had tolerance for the culture they "assimilated" into (in the video I posted)?  I'm not trying to assume anything, but how can we help them assimilate better than they have in Europe, at least based on what we're seeing?  

 

Is it really the majority population that has a problem with multiculturalism here in your view?  Not the ones that refuse to assimilate.

 

Saw an article about the city in the video:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-supposed-no-go-zone-british-muslims-christians-say-no-to-fanatics/2016/02/04/bd2bcba2-ba11-11e5-85cd-5ad59bc19432_story.html

In supposed no-go zone, British Muslims, Christians say no to fanatics

[Zguy28]

Those a great ideas for encouraging minorities to assimilate into majority cultures. Minorities already have a very strong incentive to do this. And just by dent of making the trip to live in a new land, they demonstrate an openness to different cultures that culls out values of orthodoxy in their populations.

What I was saying is that I don't know how you get the members of the majority culture to accept and facilitate the assimilation of minorities into their society. It's not in their immediate self interest to do so. And a huge portion of the population is extremely closed off to multiculturalism.

Unfortunately the "Gran Torino" approach is hard to implement on the collective.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Those a great ideas for encouraging minorities to assimilate into majority cultures. Minorities already have a very strong incentive to do this. And just by dent of making the trip to live in a new land, they demonstrate an openness to different cultures that culls out values of orthodoxy in their populations.

What I was saying is that I don't know how you get the members of the majority culture to accept and facilitate the assimilation of minorities into their society. It's not in their immediate self interest to do so. And a huge portion of the population is extremely closed off to multiculturalism.

 

I tend to think that the people who are closed off to multiculturalism are those largely unaffected by it.

 

If my Facebook feed is any indication, people in West Virginia are incredibly pissed off about Mexicans and Muslims - two groups who do not live there.

[Burgold]

I'm noting lots of Republicans getting offended that Trump said bad things about the family of a soldier.

I seem to be different. I don't have THAT much of a problem with the notion that Trump said something bad about the Khans. I don't believe that they are possessed of a magic shield which permits them to insult Trump, but he's not allowed to insult back.

There are several factors here.

 

The first is that it is a basic tenet of humanity to show a grieving family some compassion and to give them some slack. This was a family clearly in pain who felt that their son had been insulted, the memory of their son had been insulted, the sacrifice of their son had been insulted, and the religion of their son had been insulted.

 

They were not polished speakers. They were awkward, emotional, and genuine speakers. That's why their speech resonated in ways that Bloomberg's, Allen's, and so many others' didn't.

 

Common decency says these guys get to grieve. They get to say their piece.

 

Trump doesn't get that. Instead, he insults the mother, the father, and impugns that they are nothing but cynical political plants and liars (when he accused the father of simply reading a Hillary written speech and that the words and thoughts were not his own)

 

Trump bullies ruthlessly and knows no shame. He lies easily. He fails to apologize and even will strike out at grieving parents whose son sacrificed his life as a member of our military.

 

It's okay to be disgusted by this. You should be. 

[Kilmer17]

Deleted

[Going Commando]

Do you feel those folks had tolerance for the culture they "assimilated" into (in the video I posted)?  I'm not trying to assume anything, but how can we help them assimilate better than they have in Europe, at least based on what we're seeing?  

 

Is it really the majority population that has a problem with multiculturalism here in your view?  Not the ones that refuse to assimilate.

I actually don't think the US has a serious assimilation problem. I think Hispanic immigrants have assimilated pretty well where they can, and that the main impediment to their assimilation are the legal barriers impeding the likelihood of them gaining citizenship.

I also think that American Muslims are far more prosperous and Americanized than the Muslims in their new European countries. We don't have large ghettos of Muslims in our cities, and we managed to avoid the problem of having thousands of young Muslims leave to fight in Syria and then come back.

Our Muslims are also ethnically and culturally diverse and not just sourced from war torn countries in the Middle East. That breaks up orthodoxy in their communities.

America's "Muslim problem" exists mainly in the heads of the Islamaphobic parts of the country. The people who are Islamaphobic have massively overestimated the level of threat that Muslims pose, mainly because of the terrifying spectacle that terrorist attacks create. Hundreds killed. Hundreds of millions made afraid. I also think that Americans as a whole are very ignorant of the cultures and peoples of the Islamic world. Our primary interactions interactions with Muslim countries--interactions where large numbers of Americans have traveled to them--have been wars. I'd say that Americans are more ignorant about Muslim countries and peoples than they are of immigrants from other parts of the world. Ignorance + negative conditioning like ZGuy mentioned creates fear, mistrust, and hatred.

[Zguy28]

I tend to think that the people who are closed off to multiculturalism are those largely unaffected by it.

 

If my Facebook feed is any indication, people in West Virginia are incredibly pissed off about Mexicans and Muslims - two groups who do not live there.

My perception in talking to many of them: its because they see on TV that their familiar, comfortable way of life (especially jobs) is being "taken away" by immigrants and that when they don't like that, the so-called "PC police" (their word, not mine) tell them "shame on you, you're a terrible person for not wanting this change". And they are afraid of that happening to them next.

I actually don't think the US has a serious assimilation problem. I think Hispanic immigrants have assimilated pretty well where they can, and that the main impediment to their assimilation are the legal barriers impeding the likelihood of them gaining citizenship.

I also think that American Muslims are far more prosperous and Americanized than the Muslims in their new European countries. We don't have large ghettos of Muslims in our cities, and we managed to avoid the problem of having thousands of young Muslims leave to fight in Syria and then come back.

Our Muslims are also ethnically and culturally diverse and not just sourced from war torn countries in the Middle East. That breaks up orthodoxy in their communities.

America's "Muslim problem" exists mainly in the heads of the Islamaphobic parts of the country. The people who are Islamaphobic have massively overestimated the level of threat that Muslims pose, mainly because of the terrifying spectacle that terrorist attacks create. Hundreds killed. Hundreds of millions made afraid. I also think that Americans as a whole are very ignorant of the cultures and peoples of the Islamic world. Our primary interactions interactions with Muslim countries--interactions where large numbers of Americans have traveled to them--have been wars. I'd say that Americans are more ignorant about Muslim countries and peoples than they are of immigrants from other parts of the world. Ignorance + negative conditioning like ZGuy mentioned creates fear, mistrust, and hatred.

Every American should spend some time in Indonesia. I plan to go there, and I know many who have and they almost universally have less fear of Muslim people than others. Even if they disagree with the religion.

[@DCGoldPants]

Trump suggests US accept Russia's annexation of Crimea

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is suggesting the U.S. accept Russia's annexation of Crimea if it would lead to better relations with Moscow and stronger cooperation in fighting Islamic State militants.

 

That view runs counter to the Obama administration, which imposed economic sanctions against Russia for annexing the territory in Ukraine two years ago. The United Nations also doesn't want countries to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, and some top Republicans staunchly defend Crimea against what they consider Russian aggression.

 

In an interview broadcast Sunday on ABC's "This Week," Trump suggested that the people of Crimea would rather be part of Russia. However, the U.S. hasn't recognized the legitimacy of Russian referendums in Crimea and believes they were not conducted fairly.

 

Trump also said he wasn't involved in the effort that softened support in the Republican Party platform on assisting Ukraine. Although the platform is not pro-Russia, Trump supporters succeeded in preventing a reference to arming Ukraine from being added.

 

In the past, Trump's campaign manager, political strategist Paul Manafort, lobbied on behalf of Viktor Yanukovych, a Ukrainian president and supporter of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Manafort has said neither he nor anyone else with the Trump campaign pushed for the platform changes.

 

On the topic of Putin and Ukraine, the Republican said: "He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not gonna go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want."

 

ABC's George Stephanopoulos said, "Well, he's already there, isn't he?" Trump replied, "OK. Well, he's there in a certain way."

 

 

more from the link.

[LD0506]

Good for you Z, everyone ought to make a point of getting outside the US borders at some point in their life. That doesn't mean a pricey vacation in Europe, there are actually a lot of options for foreign study/assistance/etc. whereby you can travel elsewhere. Get a look from the outside, meet other people on their turf, learn to see them as people too and not just some soundbite prop.

 

I'm glad I had the chance in my dissolute youth and took it, it expands your perception in a way that little else can.

 

[Riggo-toni]

I seem to be different. I don't have THAT much of a problem with the notion that Trump said something bad about the Khans.

My problem is that he attacked them by pulling out a racial (or religious) stereotype.

But I don't see the Republicans disagreeing with his use of a stereotype.

Khan's wife I heard felt the same way. I am sure she would have said something...if only her husband allowed her to speak.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Khan's wife I heard felt the same way. I am sure she would have said something...if only her husband allowed her to speak.

Is this serious?

[Major Harris]

Weak sauce nonsense troll post.

Pitiful.

Tit for tat ****

[Aireskoi]

I actually don't think the US has a serious assimilation problem. I think Hispanic immigrants have assimilated pretty well where they can, and that the main impediment to their assimilation are the legal barriers impeding the likelihood of them gaining citizenship.

I also think that American Muslims are far more prosperous and Americanized than the Muslims in their new European countries. We don't have large ghettos of Muslims in our cities, and we managed to avoid the problem of having thousands of young Muslims leave to fight in Syria and then come back.

Our Muslims are also ethnically and culturally diverse and not just sourced from war torn countries in the Middle East. That breaks up orthodoxy in their communities.

America's "Muslim problem" exists mainly in the heads of the Islamaphobic parts of the country. The people who are Islamaphobic have massively overestimated the level of threat that Muslims pose, mainly because of the terrifying spectacle that terrorist attacks create. Hundreds killed. Hundreds of millions made afraid. I also think that Americans as a whole are very ignorant of the cultures and peoples of the Islamic world. Our primary interactions interactions with Muslim countries--interactions where large numbers of Americans have traveled to them--have been wars. I'd say that Americans are more ignorant about Muslim countries and peoples than they are of immigrants from other parts of the world. Ignorance + negative conditioning like ZGuy mentioned creates fear, mistrust, and hatred.

 

Well the "Muslim Problem" that many people have anxiety about, is how do we properly assess the intentions of the people we are bringing here, it's not simply that we are allowing Muslim immigrants.  

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/15/politifact-says-trump-right-criticism-hillary-clintons-support-500-percent-increase-syrian-refugees/

 

I would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 to 65,000 and begin immediately to put into place the mechanisms for vetting the people that we would take in,” Clinton said.

 

“But Clinton has also made it clear that they would have to first be vetted by a screening process, an important detail in the context of Trump’s larger point that would-be terrorists have to be kept out of the country,” they wrote.

President Obama recently announced that he was accelerating the timeline for the vetting process of Syrian refugees from 18 months to three months in order to meet his target this year of 10,000 Syrian refugees resettled in the United States.

In the previous four years, slightly more than 2,300 Syrian refugees were admitted to the United States, almost all of them Muslims.

 

I'm just not understanding how safely process the 65,000 Syrian refugees she plans to bring next year when the process has already been cut from 18 months to 3... to handle 550% less people.  

[FanboyOf91]

https://twitter.com/AndrewNBCNews/status/760170926218612736

 

Obama: 'As commander-in-chief, I'm pretty tired of some folks trash-talking America's military and troops'

 

I miss the popcorn smiley.

[Riggo-toni]

Is this serious?

As serious as the Dog Triumph at Comic Con

[Aireskoi]

Not only is 40% of Trump's twitter support a bunch of fake accounts, but it seems like his comments section are being padded as well.

 

 

 

This is happening all over the place, and on both sides.

 

Twitter:

 

User Actions

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Veronica Westville.‏@PotluckPolitico

happening all over Twitter too. Less than 80 followers, viciously anti-Trump

 

Reddit:

 

[Aireskoi]

Dear Mr. Khan,

I want to preface this letter by stating that I respect your son’s sacrifice for this great nation.  By all accounts, he is a true hero that sacrificed himself in service to our country. For that I am thankful.

As a veteran, I watched your comments at the Democratic National Convention with a mixture of sadness, and anger.  The United States has a military comprised of volunteers.  Every single member has made the conscious choice to join the military and serve.  There is not a single service member who has been forced into service.  It is important for all service members (and apparently, their families) to understand that service to this great nation does not imbue one with special privileges or rights.  I found your comments troubling when you said: “Have you ever been to Arlington cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.”

Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed “…nothing and no one?”…has Ms. Clinton “..sacrificed” for this nation?  How about Mr. Obama?   Your comment stating that Mr. Trump “…has sacrifice no one” is alarming.  Are you intimating that YOU sacrificed?  Sir, your son willingly sacrificed himself.   As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel but his sacrifice is his own.  He was not forced to serve.

I am troubled that you would allow a party that has little more than contempt for the US Service Member to parade you into the DNC to denounce Donald Trump.  Did you watch when protesters at the DNC booed and heckled Medal of Honor recipient  Capt. Florent Groberg? Did you notice your party interrupting the moment of silence for slain police officers?  Your own hypocrisy in not denouncing these acts and instead using the DNC as a platform to make a political point is disgraceful.  The simple fact is that whether one served or sacrificed does not give greater power to their statements.  One vote is as valuable as another.  That sir, is why our Country is great.  Your condemnation of one person for a statement while standing idly as your party disparages veterans and police officers is the height of hypocrisy.

To conflate the need to prevent potential terrorists from entering our country with the belief that ‘all Muslims’ should be banned is simply wrong and disingenuous. As a reminder, Mr. Trump said: ” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” The irony of your son’s own death at the hands of these very people in Iraq should not be ignored.  I have little doubt that your son would have recognized the need to protect our country from these very people.  In fact, he held is own troops back so that he could check on a suspicious car.  Your son understood sacrifice and how to protect “his people”…’his soldiers’….’his fellow Americans’…

As you continue to make the media circuit and bask in the glow of affection cast upon you by a party that has little regard for your son’s own sacrifice, and veterans in general, I would ask you to consider your comments and your position more closely.

Respectfully,

Chris Mark

US Marine and Navy Veteran.

 

https://globalriskinfo.com/2016/07/31/an-open-letter-to-khizr-khan/