The Curious Case Of Fred Davis...

[G1]

Shoot man, if we're holding the weed smoking up as a serious question mark for reliability, then by association we might want to look at a reliable LT back-up.

Hail.

 

Since that suspension, Williams career has gone in the exact opposite direction of Davis, for various reasons.

 

But, following you're scenario through, if we lucked on a LT that turned out to play far better than someone who is already arguably the best LT in the league I'd be over the frikkin moon.

[MusicCitySkin]

The jury is still somewhat out on Reed until he matches up against some serious LBs and Safeties, but right now at this point in the season, he is the better choice over Davis as the pass catching TE. He can simply do things Fred cannot. Having both of them out there at the same time doesn't make sense because neither are very good blockers. Even in 2-TE sets, someone has to be able to block, and if both are being sent out as pass catchers, the set might as well be 3-WR, 1-TE. Paulsen is the better choice in a 2-TE right now, as he's a damn fine blocker and is a proven target as well.

[Koolblue13]

I'm all for guys having to earn their spots. I'm all for guys sitting if their not putting forth the effort required as we're lead to believe is why Fred is in Shanahan's doghouse.

But there's two sides to every story and when you have a top end pass catching TE in this league and he's not even dressing, something has gone horribly wrong somewhere along the line. It's not like we have a ton of playmakers to start with.

Regardless of whether coach or player is at fault here, one of the biggest problems with the HC is his inability to compromise. If you piss him off, you're done. And when that comes to the detriment of the football team, it's a terrible trait for the main man to have.

Complete waste of one of the very few top quality talents we possess.

Hail.

you just don't like shanny. I get it.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

you just don't like shanny. I get it.

No man. You really do not.

Hail.

[Koolblue13]

No man. You really do not.

Hail.

then why do you keep pushing this conspiracy that shannyco is keeping such talented players down for no reason other than his own ego? Is it that hard to believe Reed is a better receiver or Paulson is a better blocker or Davis absolute inability to contribute on a league worst ST unit, isnt somehow outweighed because he is the second best pass catching TE on our team?

I know you've been critical of our Oline also. Shouldn't that at least partially explain the need to have talented blockers in the game, who can also catch dump offs? If you put Garcon, Ar on the outside, Reed and Davis near the line and Helu in the back, you've got sick speed on the field. Lots of play makers, right? Thats what you want? What we get when we do that is pressure straight through the gut and bad hurried passes and a QB taking unnecessary shots.

yes, Davis is good at catching passes. He is a talented TE (although missing plenty of games over the years), but when you throw around the playmaker term, you have to think about how blockers make plenty of plays too.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You can't dress one of your best playmakers out of 45 slots? But you can in the same position a third TE who has shown next to nothing in any aspect and has dipped in his special teams output. Aside of the fact we dress guys who barely see the field or don't at all Sundays.

No reason at all to question the HC an his stubborn ass ego at all Kb there. Even less so when there's a multitude if guys who have fallen I to his doghouse, some for totally unrelated football issues, who never make it back out.

My bad for having the temerity to question the HC for why he does get wrong.

Hail.

[Koolblue13]

You can't dress one of your best playmakers out of 45 slots? But you can in the same position a third TE who has shown next to nothing in any aspect and has dipped in his special teams output. Aside of the fact we dress guys who barely see the field or don't at all Sundays.

No reason at all to question the HC an his stubborn ass ego at all Kb there. Even less so when there's a multitude if guys who have fallen I to his doghouse, some for totally unrelated football issues, who never make it back out.

My bad for having the temerity to question the HC for why he does get wrong.

Hail.

what player has never made it out of the shanny dog house?

Is Davis anything more than the second best receiving TE on this team?

is it possible that when Reed outplayed him and got the starting position, his attitude became a problem?

do you not see the importance of blocking?

do you not see that Pauls ability on teams makes him very valuable?

Or, is it more likely that your ego conspiracy is to blame?

[darrelgreenie]

You can't dress one of your best playmakers out of 45 slots? But you can in the same position a third TE who has shown next to nothing in any aspect and has dipped in his special teams output. Aside of the fact we dress guys who barely see the field or don't at all Sundays.

No reason at all to question the HC an his stubborn ass ego at all Kb there. Even less so when there's a multitude if guys who have fallen I to his doghouse, some for totally unrelated football issues, who never make it back out.

My bad for having the temerity to question the HC for why he does get wrong.

Hail.

But I don't think its ego alone. i think its a matter of rigidity also (which i guess is partially ego). Chris Cooley said that Kyle's offense simply doesn't run the passing game to feature 2 TEs. He thinks Davis is one of the top 3 playmakers specifically winning against man coverage BUT there is no way to feature them both in Kyles's offense.

 

But, I find something unsavory about the whole Fred Davis situation.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I would guess that it's more likely that FD's agent wants teams to think he's available in a trade. That makes more sense than the Redskins really trying to get anything of value for a guy they didn't even dress out last week. Granted, I'm sure they'd take something for him, but it's more important to Davis to get in a good situation than it is for the Redskins to get anything for Davis.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

what player has never made it out of the shanny dog house?

 

If you have to ask what players have never made it out of the Shanahan doghose Kb I can only presume you've stumbled through the last four years utterly blinkered by a non-critical nature toward him because he happens to be the HC of our football team. 

Is Davis anything more than the second best receiving TE on this team?

 

And if the man currently in the TE1 slot goes down? He's one of the best playmakers on this team, and among the top tier of receiving TE's in this league. One of the VERY few playmakers and reliable targets 10 has to work with. Or 'had.' But hey, he isn't the big blocking TE that Logan is so can his lame ass. 

 

Forgive me for calling B/S on Fred's 'attitude' being the whole story here. In his contract year no less. 

is it possible that when Reed outplayed him and got the starting position, his attitude became a problem?

 

That's entirely possible, But for one of the teams very few serious weapons to drop to the stage where he's not even dressing Sunday's would suggest there's FAR more to this than the one side we keep hearing out of the Park that his attitude and work ethic is the problem. Particularly given Shanahans previous that you have apparent slept through the past four years. 

do you not see the importance of blocking?

 

Is he any worse a blocker than our current TE1? Do we have anyone outside of Garcon and Reed in the receiving game who is the playmaker Fred is?

do you not see that Pauls ability on teams makes him very valuable?

 

Paul has been more or less totally anonymous on teams this year. And he isn't worth much of aNYTHING as a TE. Even in your much lorded blocking facet. A current third string TE who contributes next to nothing at his primary role. And who's output on teams has dropped. Sounds like a keeper .....

Or, is it more likely that your ego conspiracy is to blame?

 

Being as you can't see the problem with Mike and his stubborn ass attitude to never being wrong and compromising with guys he falls out of favour with most of the time, why you would keep pushing his 'ego' that you started inferring from my criticism I don't know, How do you perceive an ego or conspiracy when you fail to see any wrong to begin with?

 

Hail. 

[acuratl1984]

The only bad thing about trading Davis is the fact that if we didn't sign him, we probably would have been able to get L.Alexander back.

 

Who is on IR. Plus I dont think Lorenzo would solve our ST problems.

 

1) Like many posters has said Davis is our 3rd best pass catcher and isnt too bad in blocking.

2) With Davis being a UFA next year, I doubt we will get anything for him.. maybe a 6th? or 7th? But for that price I think hes worth more to this team this year.

[RandyHolt]

If I am an opposition GM, I definitely would come calling with a 7th rounder for Fleddie. Something to prove, may be resigned on the cheap for next season.

 

Look at how long it took for the Skins to add hurry up. Lets just say a decade? Yet it has looked great even as we are noobs at it.

 

I expected it will take the Skins and many other teams about the same amount of time before they consider altering their playbook to use 2 pass catching TE's at the same time, as the more innovative teams have done for years now.

 

Even though, they could largely be considered a big WR, or simply used as one. Ironically, big WRs always seem in very high demand.

 

Heh, maybe we should convert him to WR. LIke, today.  He can't be much slower than Morgan.

[CrypticVillain]

Who is on IR. Plus I dont think Lorenzo would solve our ST problems.

He wasn't on IR when we signed Fred Davis. And I don't know if he would have solved the ST problems either, but he wouldn't have made it worse.

[Koolblue13]

GHH, name one player who was in the ego dog house, who wasn't an Albert Haynesworth.

you can't compare his blocking to Reeds as the number one, after conceding Reed as the better blocker. Reed is TE1.

We know for fact the this offense is designed for 1 starting receiving TE, so the point of playing them both is fairly moot. If you have Davis at TE and split Reed wide, Reed is now at a disadvantage going against a CB, instead of a LB and we have one less player in to help block or roll out for a dump off.

I'm not saying shanny doesn't have an ego, but to continuously harp on that being the only reason to bench a player who lost his job and hasn't played any full seasons in a while or has shown attitude issues (smoking pot and sleeping in meetings are attitude issues that put player over team) and has zero value on ST is absurd. Stop removing any blame from Fred in his benching and making up your own reasons. Thats worse than caring what fred smoot thinks.

[Burgold]

The problem with Davis is that he's still a question mark. A high potential guy, but when has he realized that on the field?

He's been a tease his entire career. If you doubt that he's been on the free agent market two years in a row and no other team so much as invited him for a visit.

[darrelgreenie]

not true:

 If you doubt that he's been on the free agent market two years in a row and no other team so much as invited him for a visit.

March 28, 2013, 12:30 PM EDT

AP

The Bills continue to show interest in Fred Davis.

The free-agent tight end, who has played for the Redskins the last five seasons, visited the Bills on Thursday, the club’s website reported. The club and Davis also met over the weekend.

[RandyHolt]

He probably can't believe his bad luck though, a free agent after his drug indiscretions and then the Achilles. Those have certainly scared away GMs, I would presume.

 

I have never had a problem with his on the field performance. Seems to get open no drops, no fumbles decent after the catch.

 

Its all the "intangibles" lets call them.

 

It was likely a black cloud over his career oversleeping on day 1.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I never conceded Reed was the better blocker. Your words Kb. I said he was no worse than Reed. Blocking isn't Davis' mainstay. But he's not half as bad a blocker as you're trying to make out. And I'll take a top end playmaking TE over one who blocks ANY day of the week. Even more so when we have top blocking TE in Paulsen. It amuses me when people say about this defense being designed for one TE when the team did nothing but put it out there they would be going to two TE sets. We bunch receivers up tight. Why not TE's? Cooley knows the playbook inside out and he disagrees with you. The fact we don't utilise them both, or even all three, on the field at one time is on the OC. Nobody else. The fact we can't find a place for a two pronged TE attack, wither singularly or together, is on the HC and whatever has gone wrong between him and Davis. 

 

I haven't removed 'any' blame from Fred. Just colour me VERY skeptical that there's not FAR more to this than a team dumping one of it's VERY few playmakers to street clothes on the basis of his 'attitude.' In a contract year for him. Given the Coaches stubbornness to compromise. If that's made up then colour me a fantasist too. 

 

Willie Smith. Anthony Armstrong. Sean Locklear. (although he didn't help himself.). Landry. Although he was one who deserved all he got. Even Portis at the back-end was having his run-ins with the HC. There's 4/5 off the top of my head who lost out beyond their on-field production. Where they great players? Not at all. (Although CP was a great Redskin.). Would I want them here? Not at all. But all relative to issues, whatever they happened to of been, beyond football that had them in the Coaches bad books. And the list is DEEP on players who have fallen out of favour in his 'What have you done for me lately?' style and never found their way back. (A rookie safety currently off the current team for one.). It usually starts with 'they aren't doing the little things', as much as they may be performing on the field, and escalates from there. 

 

Hail. 

[RonYoungEra]

Davis for Gordon--straight up.

[skinny21]

Forgetting about the side stuff (practice habits, doghouse, ST play etc.), we could absolutely have Reed and Davis on the field together. If it signals pass, then teams are likely to go to their nickel or dime packages, which means Davis and Reed aren't liabilities in the run game (blocking dbs). It's much the same as a spread look. If teams stay in their base, both TEs should be able to get quick separation so Griffin can get rid of the ball quickly.

With that said, I'm not surprised Paulsen is playing over Davis - he's the more well rounded player.

GHH - regarding Paul, there are two things to consider. One, our teams are in disarray - hard to put much blame on Paul. Two, our ST suck... might they be even worse without Paul? Considering those two (plus Reed's emergence and Paulsen's steadiness and blocking ability), I can understand Shanahan's decision. Doesn't mean it's the right decision, but I can't necessarily (as of yet) chalk it up to ego.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I wasn't signalling Swiss Army Niles out per se as being any worse than other guy on teams this year skinny. Outside of Kehl, the whole unit has pretty much stunk to be kind. Just questioning why you'd keep him up with his limited contribution verses Davis who could be a major contributor given the chance. 

 

The whole FreddyD debate seems pretty moot and somewhat asinine though period as it's sadly apparent he has no future here. 

 

Hail. 

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I disagree with the idea of trading Davis for two main reasons:

 

1.  What skinny said above about having Davis and Reed on the field at the same time is a good idea.

 

2.  And what most people seem to be forgetting is that Jordan Reed's NFL career is six games old, and he's been hurt two separate times.  However good he may be, if we trade Davis, it's looking highly likely we're looking at Niles Paul as our #1 pass-catching option at TE in the event of a Reed injury.  Every team needs two decent options for the pass-catching role at this position imo.  That said, we should keep Davis.

[Koolblue13]

I wasn't signalling Swiss Army Niles out per se as being any worse than other guy on teams this year skinny. Outside of Kehl, the whole unit has pretty much stunk to be kind. Just questioning why you'd keep him up with his limited contribution verses Davis who could be a major contributor given the chance. 

 

The whole FreddyD debate seems pretty moot and somewhat asinine though period as it's sadly apparent he has no future here. 

 

Hail.

of the guys you listed, other than Landry (who we all knew and wanted gone and was leaving anyway), how are the careers going? So if being a sub par player, who doesn't do the things in practice he is asked to, so he can get better, gets you in the dog house, GOOD!

I was saying we don't need two receiving tes, so their inability to block is pointless for starting consideration and since Davis can not block, he is useless on st. We need our back up te to play teams, there is only so many guys who suit up each week.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

And we have more than our share of guys who suit up and hardly ever/ don't see the field. 

 

For a different thread, but this type of roster mismanagement has cost us a kick off expert when our regular kicker struggles in that department and our coverage unit is bottom three in the league. As for the reasoning of not needing two receiving TE's, well, I just hope Reed both continues to stay healthy and doesn't have the inevitable rookie dips or that could come back to bite us on the ass. HARD!

 

Hail. 

[skinny21]

And we have more than our share of guys who suit up and hardly ever/ don't see the field.

For a different thread, but this type of roster mismanagement has cost us a kick off expert when our regular kicker struggles in that department and our coverage unit is bottom three in the league. As for the reasoning of not needing two receiving TE's, well, I just hope Reed both continues to stay healthy and doesn't have the inevitable rookie dips or that could come back to bite us on the ass. HARD!

Hail.

Nobody needs 2 pass catching TEs... until one gets hurt. Potter should definitely be considered (did he sign elsewhere?). A kicker consistently kicking touchbacks will help this team far more then another guy spectating on a big return.

Oh, and you're getting awfully touchy about the roster lately... every team has guys suited up that don't contribute. It's not ALL Mike's fault!