***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Like I mentioned, GS was jus barely over luxury cap before just now resigning KD.  They coulda got under to give LeBron similar contract to KD (he gave Lakers 4 years, agree that doesn't happen in GS), resigned KD cause he used to be on the team then still got Cousins with the exception (if I'm not reading these correctly let me know, but I maintain nothing coulda stopped them if they really wanted to).

 

KD's contract and attached Bird rights comes with a cap hold that limits what GS could do until he re-signed a new deal (unless they renounce those Bird rights).

 

Assuming Lebron was not going to take the MLE, the only way they could have signed Lebron would have to have gotten far enough under the cap to sign him to the contract he wanted or do a trade.

 

Here's the most likely scenario where it happen:

 

1.  Durant opts out and takes less than $25 million a year.

 

2.  Lebron had to opt in and then you could have a trade where the Warriors sent Klay and Iggy to Cleveland

 

3.  GS has to dump ~8 million more from their payroll (Livingston's contract fits) without taking on more salary.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/02/01/lebron-james-to-the-warriors-is-a-thing-we-have-to-talk-about-now-apparently/?utm_term=.ada5abe49349

 

(There are other possibilities, including things like:

 

1.  Durant opts out and sign a reduced contract.

2.  GS dumps players e.g. Iggy, Klay, and Livingston and brings back $0 salary

3.  Lebron opts out and takes a reduced contract (which would depend on how much of a reduction that Durant takes and how much they can dump).

 

But either way, GS has gutted their roster.  Yeah, they got Lebron, but they've lost key core other pieces.)

 

Whether they would have had an MLE still would depend on where they were with respect to the apron after all of that, which would have dependent on how much Lebron and KD were willing to sign for.  If KD is will play for $10 million a year, that opens up a lot of options for GS.

 

I believe if in signing Lebron, they go over the apron, they then have essentially a hard cap for the whole season, and they can't use their MLE.

Edited July 3, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Steve McQueen thinks the NBA was created in 1994. So, let me tell you how it was in the 80s.

 

If you're done holding court, I'd like to say that I understand the NBA has almost always had major problems with the legitimacy of their competition.  It's worse now.  But I don't want to go back to the 80s.  I want an NBA where a third of the leagues franchises can reasonably expect to compete for a championship every year.  And where it's possible to join that third after a few solid off seasons of building.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

55 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think the difference is in the 80s, those teams were built from within. You didn't have stars going out and joining forces to form superteams, you just had the Lakers and Celtics run by executives that were just smarter than their piers.

 

 

I mean, is there a difference between a league with only two smart executives or a league where players can form super-teams of their own accord. At least the super-teams vary year to year.

 

The most maddening trade in NBA history in my view is Mychael Thompson to the Lakers.  There were a lot of good centers at that time, but the Lakers were just freaking gifted one of the best 15 or so in the league to be a damn backup on an already loaded team. It would be like if the Wizards trade Otto Porter to the Warriors to back up Durant or something for bupkus.

 

I think I dislike Klay in part because of that trade. It made me so angry at the time.

 

At least Walton was essentially damaged goods when the Celtics grabbed him. No one knew that he had one more magical season left in him.

 

Though I should point out that the Celtics got an incredible year out of Bill Freaking Walton for nothing as well. They had four Hall of Famers playing three positions.

 

But, yea, the league is broken now.

[Kosher Ham]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If you're done holding court, I'd like to say that I understand the NBA has almost always had major problems with the legitimacy of their competition.  It's worse now.  But I don't want to go back to the 80s.  I want an NBA where a third of the leagues franchises can reasonably expect to compete for a championship every year.  And where it's possible to join that third after a few solid off seasons of building.

 

More than half make the playoffs. 

So building is based on coaching and front office... right ? 

One would say the Cavs have a better front office ? 

Better coaching also ? 

Or are you saying there is one great max type player that elevates in spite of the situation ? 

 

The rules are the same for all teams. The pool of players is the same. 

 

Hmm...so you are saying the 90's which is what he is tallking about...right ? 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If you're done holding court, I'd like to say that I understand the NBA has almost always had major problems with the legitimacy of their competition.  It's worse now.  But I don't want to go back to the 80s.  I want an NBA where a third of the leagues franchises can reasonably expect to compete for a championship every year.  And where it's possible to join that third after a few solid off seasons of building.

 

That goes against the nature of basketball though. The best five teams are the ones with the best five players - as long as they have one other pretty good player. You do end up with Anthony Davis in limbo occasionally. And everyone in basketball kinda wants Boston to offer the store to New Orleans for Anthony Davis so he can get out of limbo.

 

This is true in college basketball too -except the one-and-done nature of the tournament does a pretty good job in hiding that. If college basketball were the best 16 teams in a tournament where each round was a 5-game series, you would have five or six teams rotating titles for all of eternity.

 

To have a league where ten teams can compete for a title, you need to either put in a minutes restriction or change the playoffs to best 2 out 3.

 

Here is the question I have. Would you rather Lebron never left Cleveland in the first place and watched him try to pull ****ty team after ****ty team to the ECF every year. Or do you want Lebron in a situation where he plays with people who allow him to use all his powers.

 

All I heard for years is that Durant needs to get away from Westbrook and go somewhere that will let him reach his max potential. We've gotten to see Durant at his max potential the last two years.

 

Back to the '86 Celtics, it was pretty magical watching Bird and Walton run pick n rolls where the objective was to throw pin point passes over their shoulders or heads. I mean, maybe it would have been "fairer" for Walton to go to Milwaukee that year. But it was beautiful basketball.

 

Your objective appears to be to take the best 12 guys in the league and put them all on teams that will not let them thrive in order to create some artificial competition.

 

Of course, if Durant had joined two All-Stars on the Wizards, that would have been perfectly acceptable for some reason. I wonder why.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

10 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

More than half make the playoffs. 

So building is based on coaching and front office... right ? 

One would say the Cavs have a better front office ? 

Better coaching also ? 

Or are you saying there is one great max type player that elevates in spite of the situation ? 

 

The rules are the same for all teams. The pool of players is the same. 

 

Hmm...so you are saying the 90's which is what he is tallking about...right ? 

 

The 90s could have had a situation where one team won 8 straight titles had Jordan not retired. (Though I don't think that would have happened to be honest).

 

The Kobe-Shaq Lakers should have won 7 titles in a row at the very least. I mean, if we didn't know that those two dudes utterly despised each other at that point, that Pistons title win would have led to a Congressional investigation.

 

The good thing about basketball is that when you do get super teams, egos are such that it's usually impossible for them to stay together for too long. Magic and Kareen were unique personalities in that it's impossible to imagine either of them demanding that the other be traded. They both seemed perfectly comfortable in their skins and in their roles. And they both seemed to know exactly what fate had handed them. That's really the one Super Team in history where the key members never grew to hate the situation. (And even then Magic got a coach fired. And Kareem had already ****ed his way out of one team).

Edited July 3, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Spaceman Spiff]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/7/3/17530252/warriors-demarcus-cousins-salary-cap

 

Quote

The NBA’s luxury-tax rules deter teams from overspending. And they may be what will eventually break up the Warriors once Klay Thompson and Draymond Green are due for max contracts in 2019 and 2020, respectively. But the tax doesn’t prevent them from overspending. Though, if competitive balance is the goal, a hard cap might not solve the problem, either. The nature of basketball would prevent a hard cap from creating NFL-style parity. One transcendent player—like Michael Jordan or LeBron James—automatically gives his team a chance for sustained, dominant success. A hard cap also wouldn’t stop players from taking pay cuts, much like they already do by passing on more lucrative supermax contracts to play elsewhere. Kawhi Leonard can make $219.2 million if he signs a supermax with the Spurs this summer; he stands to make only $139.3 million if he signs a max with any other team. I often wonder whether players share the feelings of Dave Chappelle, who explained his choice to quitChappelle’s Show and leave millions of dollars on the table like this: “The only difference between having $10 million and $50 million is an astounding $40 million.” Chappelle’s point was that the difference in lifestyle once your income reaches eight figures is minimal. So even with a hard cap, players might take pay cuts to go play somewhere that makes them happy.

 

Quote

Golden State’s success is a copy of the 1960s Celtics dynasty pasted into the 21st century. We’ll look back at this era and think fondly about how we saw one of the greatest teams ever battle one of the greatest players ever for four straight NBA Finals. I love basketball more than I ever have in my life, and the journey each season seems to be getting better and better, as basketball is the fastest-growing sport worldwide. I’m excited for a team to try to push the juggernaut Warriors to their limits. But I didn’t like how their dominance came so easily with a 16-1 Finals run in 2017, and I grew tired amid their dominant sweep of the Cavaliers this past month. The Rockets pushed the Warriors to seven games, which is all the evidence you need that the end result isn’t inevitable, but it sure does feel like it to a lot of fans across the planet. With three championships in four seasons, and another likely on the way, perception isn’t far from reality.

 

The NBA has been ruled by a dynasty each decade. But the talent gap never felt this large for Jordan’s Bulls. The world is waiting for a less certain outcome, however it might take shape. Perhaps it comes soon. The Warriors will break up at some point, because of the luxury tax or boredom, but Silver and the NBA would be wise to continue pushing for proactive measures whenever the next collective bargaining negotiations come around. The NBPA might see things a bit differently then.

 

[Kosher Ham]

Players revolting over the Chris Paul situation ??? 

 

NBA did mess up there. Big. 

LeBron made more in 2 years than any one of his NBA contracts...from endorsements. 

 

[Renegade7]

50 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

So you have no faith in younger guys stepping up to the level required to beat the guy ahead of them ? 

 

LeBron is the best ever.

As a Lakers fan... I am not sure that I like the move. I don't want them to give up the young nucleus to retain him, or to aquire Leonard. 

Thing is Leonard holds the cards. SA better make the move, or lose him for nothing. 

Not yet, no.  I think of the cavs almost getting swept even when Kyrie as a second dominant scorer, everyone has their work cut out for them.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Renegade7

[Kosher Ham]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Not yet, no.  I think of the cavs almost getting swept even when Kyrie as a second dominant scorer, everyone has their work cut out for them.

 

Then Beal and Wall are Starks and Houston ? 

Probably too young to see it at this point. 

Same thing. 

 

at least NY had Ewing. 

[Renegade7]

38 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

Then Beal and Wall are Starks and Houston ? 

Probably too young to see it at this point. 

Same thing. 

 

at least NY had Ewing. 

Hater, Wall and Beal average around 50 points per game between the two of them in the playoffs. I showed they both typically shot better ft% then LeBron in playoffs and you had nothing for it, that's not why he can't beat the warriors and that's not why we can't get past the 2nd round.

 

  I keep saying it's not the backcourt and it eill be impossible to expect Ernie to find better, but here we are again, Jesus, write him a letter if that ft thing bothers you so much, I plan to go to the first home game with a sign at this rate.

 

You ever go to Hornets games?

[Going Commando]

If it were true that one All timer with a high quality supporting cast was enough to guarantee championships in a competitive erera, LeBron would not have lost in '11 and '14.

 

Players wouldn't have to take pay cuts to form super teams if you didn't need a super team to win.

 

My vision for the NBA is a league where no top ten to fifteen player can team up with another player in that tier.  Where championships rotate around based on who was on who was healthy and on a mission and had things break their way that season.

[Kosher Ham]

 come on man... I would say...Glad the Wiz signed Boogie and KD over the last few years. 

That's being a troll... I don't hate the team, I hate the useless hate towards other teams. 

 

Been to plenty of Hornets/Bobcats games. 

Odd question, I have been to plenty of Bullets/Wizards games too. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

My vision for the NBA is a league where no top ten to fifteen player can team up with another player in that tier.  Where championships rotate around based on who was on who was healthy and on a mission and had things break their way that season.

Yet you think the highest % shot, be worth the lowest % shot.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Kosher Ham said:

 come on man... I would say...Glad the Wiz signed Boogie and KD over the last few years. 

That's being a troll... I don't hate the team, I hate the useless hate towards other teams. 

 

Been to plenty of Hornets/Bobcats games. 

Odd question, I have been to plenty of Bullets/Wizards games too. 

 

 

Fair, I don't hate the Lakers, either.  There wasn't a secret point about the hornets question, I'll pm you about it later.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

20 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If it were true that one All timer with a high quality supporting cast was enough to guarantee championships in a competitive erera, LeBron would not have lost in '11 and '14.

 

 

Lebron was on the super team at the time in 11 and 14 and lost to non super teams. 

[Gamebreaker]

5 hours ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

How is it broken?  Cousins too a WAY below-the-market deal to sign there. 

 

Obviously, this is an extreme, but what was stopping Lebron from signing for the MLE here in DC?  He could have done it....

 

If the team(s) can afford these contracts, then so be it. 

 

Cousins is going to heal 100%, play on a cheap deal, then bounce after the year to sign a HUGE contract. 

 

I think some of us are putting too much stock into other teams not making offers, and not WHY other teams didn't make any offers. Too many GMs for these teams, have had their calls go unanswered as these superstars are only interested in budding up with another team that is remotely within the range of being competitive. This began with Lebron and Miami, and now it's much, much worse. I don't blame GS, they are just doing what's best for their team. I don't blame Cousins, he's probably following the advice of his agent in order to maximize his chances for a better deal in the future. I do blame the league office, for not forcing a lockout and getting the CBA fixed before it came to this. I don't know what they can do to fix it, but some kind of incentive needs to be made that counters this generation's willingness to collaborate instead of compete. Maybe the salary cap needs to modified where the worst teams have the most cap room. Or maybe they need to finally do away with the luxury tax and make it a true hard cap. I don't know, but what the point of a league is to provide entertaining sport. And right now, the only entertainment being found by anyone who isn't a Warriors fan is the first week of free agency. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

The idea that every team should be the 07 Cavs or the 06 Lakers with a maximum of one star on their team just so more teams can be competitive is silly. Nobody wants to watch that mess. 

 

Equally as ridiculous is that stacked teams are ok as long as they are drafted or built through trades. Once a player has the right to choose where he wants to go, then it’s a problem if the team is too good 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Gamebreaker]

3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

The idea that every team should be the 07 Cavs or the 06 Lakers with a maximum of one star on their team just so more teams can be competitive is silly. Nobody wants to watch that mess. 

 

??? Nobody wants to watch the current mess we have right now. Most people would care to watch the league if more teams had a chance at a title. This really isn't up for debate. No one cares when the winner is a foregone conclusion. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think the difference is in the 80s, those teams were built from within. You didn't have stars going out and joining forces to form superteams, you just had the Lakers and Celtics run by executives that were just smarter than their piers.

 

The Warriors three core guys in Curry, Thompson, and Green were guys they drafted/developed, but the fact that Durant and Cousins took the wussy way out to join them to win rings turned a lot of people(myself included)off. It'd be like if in the 80s, Jordan decided to sign with the Celtics or Pistons.

they were built from within because of incompetent GMs of that era.

 

That is nothing to be proud of.

[Renegade7]

54 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

??? Nobody wants to watch the current mess we have right now. Most people would care to watch the league if more teams had a chance at a title. This really isn't up for debate. No one cares when the winner is a foregone conclusion. 

Just because parity doesn't matter to some them doesn't mean it doesn't matter.  

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Wizards and DH sounds like a fun idea. 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Wizards and DH sounds like a fun idea. 

 

Get that butt ready for us.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Gortat was throwing shade, imagine what DH is going to be doing. 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Gortat was throwing shade, imagine what DH is going to be doing. 

 

Farting all over everyone.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Dwight’s a punk. He’s got no dog in him and he doesn’t play defense anymore. 

 

Good fit for the Wiz...