ixcuincle Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 He is holding up fa. Just resign with heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) He is holding up fa. Just resign with heat. exactly. LOL @ nobody else making a decision until he does. Look you guys. I know everybody that's active in this thread knows a lot more about the NBA than I do. But does the fact that Lebron's decision is holding up the rest of free agency....does that not disgust you? Goes to show how there is absolutely zero parity in the NBA these days. big time all-star names just wait it out until they can form their own, hand picked all-star teams. how can that not make you wanna puke?! Edited July 9, 2014 by Chew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 So, I understand like 10% of the NBA cap rules. I am trying to educate myself... Can someone translate this Real GM article to english for me: Well, I was all set to respond to this, explaining everything, but apparently sometimes when you hit backspace it decides to hit the back button on the ****ing browser. I'll try and retype the post later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's not that everyone else is waiting on LeBron (teams and agents are waiting too BTW) because they want to play with LeBron. It's because he's the top FA and he sets the market for everyone else and changes the power dynamics of the league. Same thing happens in the NFL chewy, only even more so because the top FAs determine how everyone else gets paid because there aren't max contracts and the NFL's cap is so big. The teams trying to sign LeBron will not sign other major FAs until LeBron commits to a place. The entire SF market can't fall into place until LeBron and Melo are signed because teams will not sign a starting caliber SF if they're trying to get one of those guys. Then it'll go down the pecking order from there: Chandler Parsons, Hayward, Deng, Ariza, Pierce, etc. I get the sense LeBron and Melo are waiting on each other to see if they can work anything out. If a team doesn't open up for them, then LeBron will just resign in Miami IMO once the contract details get worked out. The only other notable players waiting on LeBron because they want to follow him are Ray Allen and Chris Bosh IMO. Wade is staying in Miami no matter what. Everyone else is just looking for the right team and the right dollar amount pretty much. But FA isn't really being delayed because the official FA period doesn't even start until July 10th. Teams and agents are just agreeing to deals in principle right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 thanks for the explains, steve. all makes sense, i get now that very few of them are waiting to team up together and that its more about the dollars. but just the fact that the players run the league. a few big names have got the entire NBA all tied up in a knot for the next few days. pew. it stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) All sports have a pecking order. It's just more dramatic in the NBA, AND the NBA has such restrictive cap rules that everything has to follow a certain pattern. If Mike Trout became a free agent and the Yankees and Dodgers were in the running for him, they could still sign other players while waiting for him to decide. In the NBA, if you even have a 5 percent chance at Lebron, you can't do anything until he is locked in, because that determines where your money is going. thanks for the explains, steve. all makes sense, i get now that very few of them are waiting to team up together and that its more about the dollars. but just the fact that the players run the league. a few big names have got the entire NBA all tied up in a knot for the next few days. pew. it stinks. I like that the players run the league. Would you prefer that Donald Sterling and Fredo Buss run it instead? There's a bunch of other factors involved too - most of it tied to the salary cap. Chicago can sign Melo, but - I'm 95 percent sure - they can only do that if New York agrees to a sign and trade with them. The Knicks don't necessarily want to do that. But if there options are Carmleo goes to LA or Carmelo gets S/T to Chicago....the latter might be their better option. But Melo probably wants to see what Lebron does before he forces the Knicks' hand. And even then, the Knicks might say, "Screw you. We are not making an Eastern Conference team better." After Lebron and Melo settle down, everyone with free agent money can turn to the second-tier guys like Deng and Ariza. Edited July 9, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 thanks for the explains, steve. all makes sense, i get now that very few of them are waiting to team up together and that its more about the dollars. but just the fact that the players run the league. a few big names have got the entire NBA all tied up in a knot for the next few days. pew. it stinks. That's what happens in a sport where individual players can change the entire dynamic of a team. I see nothing wrong with what these guys are doing. They have no obligation to stay on bad teams. How many of you would want to work for a ****ty company when a better one is knocking on your door? I hope there is a rebalancing of power in the East. I hope Melo goes to Chicago. I hope Bosh goes out West. He will not only play on a better team but will have 2x the money. Miami is weakened by his departure. If Indiana figures it out again and the Wizards young players improve, the East can be very interesting next year even if LeBron stays in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Vishal, I disagree with that part about Bosh. How does he have 2x the money ? I certainly don't think Miami is that much weakened without him. Bosh does not play the same game he did when he was in Toronto. He tried that year 1 with the Heat and it clogged the lane. But that was when he was his best. Maybe I am reading it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's not that everyone else is waiting on LeBron (teams and agents are waiting too BTW) because they want to play with LeBron. I While what you are saying is true, the tops ones definitely waiting to play with him. Melo and Bosh know they can get a max deal so money isn't the issue with them. If Melo signed already, we'd start to see movement by some other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 exactly. LOL @ nobody else making a decision until he does. Look you guys. I know everybody that's active in this thread knows a lot more about the NBA than I do. But does the fact that Lebron's decision is holding up the rest of free agency....does that not disgust you? Goes to show how there is absolutely zero parity in the NBA these days. big time all-star names just wait it out until they can form their own, hand picked all-star teams. how can that not make you wanna puke?! Lebron hasnt held up free agency. We just saw Gordon Hayward sign an offer sheet with Charlotte. A lot of deals happened. No, it does not disgust me. It happens every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Vishal, I disagree with that part about Bosh. How does he have 2x the money ? I certainly don't think Miami is that much weakened without him. Bosh does not play the same game he did when he was in Toronto. He tried that year 1 with the Heat and it clogged the lane. But that was when he was his best. Maybe I am reading it wrong. Bosh has always been a stretch 4 but he worked mostly from the mid range. He's simply been relegated to third option in Miami and asked to stretch out to the 3 pt line. I've read that Miami wants him back at around 12-14 million. A discount to play with LeBron. Houston is giving him upwards of 20M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Bosh has always been a stretch 4 but he worked mostly from the mid range. He's simply been relegated to third option in Miami and asked to stretch out to the 3 pt line. I've read that Miami wants him back at around 12-14 million. A discount to play with LeBron. Houston is giving him upwards of 20M. His responsibilities in Miami are kind of ludicrous. Stretch the floor to the three point line on offense while protecting the rim on defense - neither of which are really all that ideal for his skill set. In Houston, he wouldn't have to do any of that. Just play the mid-range game and guard his position. And, frankly, Houston needs him for his attitude and leadership more than anything. He can credibly walk into that locker room and say, "Listen, you jags. You want to win a title? Well, this is how you win a title. Stop worrying about your numbers and play defense." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 While what you are saying is true, the tops ones definitely waiting to play with him. Melo and Bosh know they can get a max deal so money isn't the issue with them. If Melo signed already, we'd start to see movement by some other teams. Yeah I think Melo is waiting to see if there will be an opportunity to play with him. I hesitate to call Bosh a top free agent. I think money-wise, he's a top free agent. But I don't think he's even close to being worth a max deal. I think he's in Marcin Gortat territory money-wise and that Houston is making a big mistake in offering Bosh a max or near max deal. Dirk was a more valuable FA than Bosh IMO, he's locked up. Melo and LeBron are really the only legit max players in this group. Eric Bledsoe might be a mini max player but you can't say so for sure because of his injury. I get what you're saying about Melo being lame for trying to team up with LeBron. I too think Melo should find a team where he can be THE GUY instead of being LeBron's sidekick. But there is a bizarrely low demand for max contract guys this summer. Nobody is really willing to give up anything for Love. Hardly anybody seemed to get into the LeBron hunt. And Melo only had five teams as realistic destinations: Houston, Dallas, Chicago, New York, LA. Very few of the good teams had money this offseason. The bad teams are the bulk of the ones with the cap space and Melo isn't going to sign with any of them just for money. LKB covered the S&T issue with Chicago for Melo. Plus there might be a jostling for leadership with Derrick Rose if he comes back. In Houston he's not THE GUY. In Dallas he is, but Dirk is the real hero of that team and anything bad that happens would be pinned on Melo. In LA he's with Kobe in some form or other. And New York is a mess. So Melo actually doesn't have any obviously good options when you think about him wanting to play for a contender where he can be the leader and central player. I think there is very little chance LeBron and Melo find a suitable team where they can play together. What I'd like to see most is Melo end up in Boston via S&T. Or, I want to see Melo on the same team as Rondo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Great article by Zach Lowe. http://grantland.com/features/nba-miami-heat-double-standard-contract-sacrifice-lebron-james-chris-bosh-houston-rockets-free-agency/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Couldn't agree more about Bosh. It's crazy that he has a max offer from the Rockets. I think they would be a lot better off spreading that money around to a few players. I was just thinking about how crazy the NBA will go if LeBron goes back to Cleveland. Remember when Jordan was done playing baseball/being suspended and FAXED the Bulls that he was back? At least that is my recollection of what happened. Edited July 9, 2014 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Bosh has always been a stretch 4 but he worked mostly from the mid range. He's simply been relegated to third option in Miami and asked to stretch out to the 3 pt line. I've read that Miami wants him back at around 12-14 million. A discount to play with LeBron. Houston is giving him upwards of 20M. Right. Plenty of guys can shoot a 19 footer, plenty of guys can hit 3's. They won't cost that much. He was so much better defensively without those guys. I applaud him for getting his skill set to the point he could really stretch. I just think he was better suited playing closer to the rim and having the versatility to step outside to challenge defenses. Thank you for the info on the Miami part of the money. I hadn't seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I don't get into the "So and so is a max player" arguments. This is a league where Joe Johnson made $21 million last year and Rudy Gay made $18 million. Christ, Gilbert Arenas made $22 million last year. You are worth what the market offers you. It seems silly to me that we are now going to punish Bosh for being the third best guy on a team with two Hall of Famers. If he had spent the last four years in Toronto putting up 25/10s..and entered free agency as a healthy, 30 year old 9 time all star.....we would be finding other ways to criticze him, I'm sure. - He's never done anything the playoffs. - Isn't a leader - Can't defend (because he never would have been asked to) - Can't shoot the three (because he never would have been asked to) - Is not a winner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I don't get into the "So and so is a max player" arguments. This is a league where Joe Johnson made $21 million last year and Rudy Gay made $18 million. Christ, Gilbert Arenas made $22 million last year. You are worth what the market offers you. It seems silly to me that we are now going to punish Bosh for being the third best guy on a team with two Hall of Famers. If he had spent the last four years in Toronto putting up 25/10s..and entered free agency as a healthy, 30 year old 9 time all star.....we would be finding other ways to criticze him, I'm sure. - He's never done anything the playoffs. - Isn't a leader - Can't defend (because he never would have been asked to) - Can't shoot the three (because he never would have been asked to) - Is not a winner nailed it ironic is that this is mostly the argument against Melo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I don't get into the "So and so is a max player" arguments. This is a league where Joe Johnson made $21 million last year and Rudy Gay made $18 million. Christ, Gilbert Arenas made $22 million last year. You are worth what the market offers you. It seems silly to me that we are now going to punish Bosh for being the third best guy on a team with two Hall of Famers. If he had spent the last four years in Toronto putting up 25/10s..and entered free agency as a healthy, 30 year old 9 time all star.....we would be finding other ways to criticze him, I'm sure. - He's never done anything the playoffs. - Isn't a leader - Can't defend (because he never would have been asked to) - Can't shoot the three (because he never would have been asked to) - Is not a winner That's actually not true. The only point being made about Bosh is that with Houston he would once again be the 3rd option. Is a player who averaged 15 points and 5.6 rebounds worth a max deal? To some of us armchair GMs, no, definitely not. Now if he was coming to a team to be the number one option, then yes, it would make more sense for him to be a max type player. Again, we are talking about the way we would construct teams. Otherwise what's the point of ever talking about what a player is worth and why bother have any conversations at all about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeesburgSkinFan Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Cavs must really think they have a shot at LeBron. Reported 3 team trade has the Cavs giving up on 1st round pick Tyler Zeller and also giving away a 1st round pick and Jarrett Jack and acquiring nothing more than a 2nd round pick from either Boston or New Jersey. The Nets get Jack (replacing Livingston I guess) and youngster Karasev (also from Cleveland). Boston gets Marcus Thornoton, Zeller, and the 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA For Cavaliers, there are no assurances on LeBron James -- and Plan B remains free agent Trevor Ariza into part of space, sources tell Yahoo. Edited July 9, 2014 by BRAVEONAWARPATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 That's actually not true. The only point being made about Bosh is that with Houston he would once again be the 3rd option. Is a player who averaged 15 points and 5.6 rebounds worth a max deal? To some of us armchair GMs, no, definitely not. Now if he was coming to a team to be the number one option, then yes, it would make more sense for him to be a max type player. Again, we are talking about the way we would construct teams. Otherwise what's the point of ever talking about what a player is worth and why bother have any conversations at all about it? I don't think anyone is looking at it properly. It's not what player A is worth in a vacuum. In a vaccum, I frankly think there are only 3 max players in the league - Lebron, Durant, and Paul. It's what player A is worth to Team A. I don't know if Bosh erases all of Houston's flaws. But he fixes a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think anyone is looking at it properly. It's not what player A is worth in a vacuum. In a vaccum, I frankly think there are only 3 max players in the league - Lebron, Durant, and Paul. It's what player A is worth to Team A. I don't know if Bosh erases all of Houston's flaws. But he fixes a lot of them. Ok everybody. No more discussing what a player is worth until they are signed. At which point you can only agree that the player is worth the dollar amount for what he signed. Seriously, we are just expressing our opinions that Chris Bosh, in the role he would play in Houston, isn't worth a four year max deal. That's it. Maybe we are wrong and he puts them over the top and justifies his pay with his performance. Or maybe he will end up like Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson as being massively overpaid players that don't justify their contracts on the court... in my opinion. Edited July 9, 2014 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Cavs must really think they have a shot at LeBron. Reported 3 team trade has the Cavs giving up on 1st round pick Tyler Zeller and also giving away a 1st round pick and Jarrett Jack and acquiring nothing more than a 2nd round pick from either Boston or New Jersey. The Nets get Jack (replacing Livingston I guess) and youngster Karasev (also from Cleveland). Boston gets Marcus Thornoton, Zeller, and the 1st round pick. So what happens if they don't get LeBron now? Seems kinda strange they would make that move without knowing for sure LeBron was going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 So what happens if they don't get LeBron now? Seems kinda strange they would make that move without knowing for sure LeBron was going there. They could add three quality players at least in that cap space or maintain it for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now