***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[jaybrant]

 

It's happening!

 

 

The Dan Gilbert letter to Cavs fans after LeBron left was available on their website for almost 4 years (3 years, 364 days). It was removed today. 

Edited July 7, 2014 by jaybrant

[Kosher Ham]

Eh, I would actually say those Jazz teams were better than this Spurs team.

 And they damn sure never would have lost to that 2011 Mavs team in the Finals.

 

And that would be laughable. I could possibly argue that this Spurs dynasty team would be a better match-up with the Bulls dynasty team than any other besides the showtime Lakers.

 

As I said before, the Spurs went through the tough West. Back then it was the tough East. The win against the Lakers in the Finals was not a fluke. The East was so much tougher.

I just checked. The last to do it was Duncan and Bowen. But even still I don't think those two together are anywhere near as good as Pippen and Jordan. 

 

I could ask at least 50% of people that call themselves NBA fans and they would have no idea to the reference of Bowen is/was...

 

If I just said Bowen, if I added in his first name they would get some recall of the guy.

 

That duo doesn't come close to the defense and intimidation that Jordan and Pippen had, because Bowen was not as prominent in media.

[CrypticVillain]

I could ask at least 50% of people that call themselves NBA fans and they would have no idea to the reference of Bowen is/was...

 

If I just said Bowen, if I added in his first name they would get some recall of the guy.

 

That duo doesn't come close to the defense and intimidation that Jordan and Pippen had, because Bowen was not as prominent in media.

Forget about being known, even if he was known, his skills, along with Duncan's, are nowhere near the combo of MJ and Scottie.

 

Sidenote: I remember growing up, we used to say "Scottie got your body". I don't think we said it for any particular reason other than it rhymed. lol

[Going Commando]

Those Jazz teams were not and never were better than these Spurs teams.

Those Jazz teams were not contenders in the West until Portland and Seattle fell apart, and the Rockets got old. Those Jazz teams had a bunch of first round exits when they had home court.

Those late 90s Jazz may be some of the most overrated sports teams of the last 30 years.

The only reason they ran the Bulls close was because the Bulls were old as dirt themselves.

You're underselling the quality of the West back then. And you could say the exact same sorts of arguments about this Spurs team. After 2007, they didn't do anything for 6 years until the Kobe/Gasol Lakers got old and fell apart, the Mavs decided not to defend their title and deconstruct the team, and a young powerhouse Thunder team traded away Harden for next to nothing. And the Spurs had some struggles in the playoffs the last few years and they didn't make it out of the West without having home court advantage.

And the Sonics were still good both of the years the Jazz won the conference. The 96-97 Rockets were still good even though they were getting old. The 96/97 Lakers were pretty good. And the 97/98 Lakers and Spurs were both very good. By 1997, the West was already the superior conference and has been ever since. The Jazz had to beat some real teams to make it out of the West. They beat much better teams those years than the Bulls did.

This Spurs team wasn't the favorite in either of their playoff series against Miami. They're not better than the Jazz with Malone in his prime.

[Bubble Screen]

No because I'm not a huge Kyrie fan and the third option is a 19 year old rookie.

Like I really find it laughable that ppl think he's considering taking this big a risk with his career

Tristan Thompson is hit or miss and Waiters hates Kyrie so it's a matter of time before he's gone

And no one is even talking about the fact that the Cavs have a new coach who has never been a head coach in NBA. Or his past with Gilbert.

He's not going back to Cleveland, guys.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Bubble Screen

[Kosher Ham]

Forget about being known, even if he was known, his skills, along with Duncan's, are nowhere near the combo of MJ and Scottie.

 

 

However, neither of them could bang with Duncan all day.

Meaning, they didn't have his skills either.

I feel that Bowen could limit Pippen...almost to a balance.

 

Offensively the Bulls duo would win out...but the Spurs could hang defensively.

Which is why players like Kerr, Paxton, etc., were so important to the Bulls.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Kosher Ham

[Going Commando]

I just checked. The last to do it was Duncan and Bowen. But even still I don't think those two together are anywhere near as good as Pippen and Jordan.

A Duncan/Bowen combo is far better defensively than a Pippen/Jordan combo. No perimeter defender could ever be as impactful as prime Duncan was defensively. Prime Duncan is the second most impactful defender in league history IMO. He was a true big.

Plus Bowen was probably a better perimeter defender than both MJ and Pippen were. The only way Bowen stays in the rotation on a team like those mid decade Spurs were is if he's an absolute junk yard dog defensively.

Now if you had gotten Jordan, Rodman, and Pippen all on the same team at their absolute primes defensively, that's a different story. They were a great defensive team even as MJ slipped during that second threepeat. They'd have been utterly devastating if that team was around in 1990.

Pippen/Jordan is way better offensively than Duncan/Bowen of course. MJ was the greatest offensive player ever, much better than Duncan and Bowen gave you nothing on offense except set shot threes. Like Destino said, Pippen was a capable point forward that could comfortably take over a lot of the ball handling. Which they needed because they had spot up shooters at PG and Jordan needed to be able to play off the ball at least some of the time.

You couldn't draw up a better complimentary perimeter player to Jordan than Pippen. He was the perfect teammate. They did win six rings together after all.

[JoeWolf990]

You're underselling the quality of the West back then. And you could say the exact same sorts of arguments about this Spurs team. After 2007, they didn't do anything for 6 years until the Kobe/Gasol Lakers got old and fell apart, the Mavs decided not to defend their title and deconstruct the team, and a young powerhouse Thunder team traded away Harden for next to nothing. And the Spurs had some struggles in the playoffs the last few years and they didn't make it out of the West without having home court advantage.

And the Sonics were still good both of the years the Jazz won the conference. The 96-97 Rockets were still good even though they were getting old. The 96/97 Lakers were pretty good. And the 97/98 Lakers and Spurs were both very good. By 1997, the West was already the superior conference and has been ever since. The Jazz had to beat some real teams to make it out of the West. They beat much better teams those years than the Bulls did.

This Spurs team wasn't the favorite in either of their playoff series against Miami. They're not better than the Jazz with Malone in his prime.

the West today> the west back then

I am not underselling anything. The Jazz had first round exits when they had home court.

The Sonics fell apart after the finals appearance. The 97 Rockets were a good team, but they were old.

The Spurs had to go against the LAkers out west with Shaq and Kobe, and later Kobe. Spurs had to get through some strong Mavs teams and strong Phoenix teams.

The Spurs also have Duncan who is better than Malone. Spurs have a better a coach too.

Jazz were hella overrated.

[Duckus]

I keep going to back to the simple fact that Wade opted out of 41 million dollars. That doesn't happen unless he is specifically told by LBJ he is coming back. 

[MattFancy]

I keep going to back to the simple fact that Wade opted out of 41 million dollars. That doesn't happen unless he is specifically told by LBJ he is coming back. 

 

I keep thinking the same as well. Unless Wade thought him opting out would make it more attractive for James to come back? I would think Wade would be super pissed if he opted out and LeBron doesn't go back to Miami.

[Destino]

Pippen/Jordan is way better offensively than Duncan/Bowen of course. MJ was the greatest offensive player ever, much better than Duncan and Bowen gave you nothing on offense except set shot threes. Like Destino said, Pippen was a capable point forward that could comfortably take over a lot of the ball handling. Which they needed because they had spot up shooters at PG and Jordan needed to be able to play off the ball at least some of the time.

 

 

That just goes to show you how rare that pair is.  Two 1st team NBA defensive players, both of which are at least good offensive players. 

[CrypticVillain]

A Duncan/Bowen combo is far better defensively than a Pippen/Jordan combo. No perimeter defender could ever be as impactful as prime Duncan was defensively. Prime Duncan is the second most impactful defender in league history IMO. He was a true big.

I can honestly see where you're coming from. You would love to have a dominant inside and outside defensive combo. But Jordan and Pippen were different. They shut stuff down. Besides, they where on the all-first defensive team five times. The longevity alone would make me take that over Duncan and Bowen. 

[Destino]

I keep going to back to the simple fact that Wade opted out of 41 million dollars. That doesn't happen unless he is specifically told by LBJ he is coming back. 

 

Maybe Riley told him that if Lebron signs elsewhere they'll give him that much back over the next two years.  Doesn't sound very likely though.  Makes you wonder how much of that he'll get back.  I could see him making 10-12 million a year.  That's still almost a 20 million dollar loss in just two season though, not exactly chump change.  

[Going Commando]

As I said before, the Spurs went through the tough West. Back then it was the tough East. The win against the Lakers in the Finals was not a fluke. The East was so much tougher.

That's simply not true. The West still had quality teams in 96-97 and in that 97-98 season the West passed the East in quality. In 96-97 give me the Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Rockets or Payton/Kemp/Schrempf Sonics over the Hardaway/Mourning Heat or the Reggie Miller Pacers.

In 97-98 those Heat and Pacers teams were the only really good ones outside the Bulls left in the conference. Meanwhile in the West you've got three 60 win teams in the Jazz, Lakers, and Sonics and the 5th seed Spurs would have easily been the second best team in the East. The only real team the Bulls beat in the East in 97 was Miami and in 98 was Indy. The Wizards, Hawks, Nets, and Hornets were all weak teams. And it's not like either of the Heat or Pacers teams were actually that good.

The Jordan Bulls were the only thing propping the East up by the mid to late 90's. The conference was already in decay back then.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But could those Jazz teams beat today's Hornets?

[Going Commando]

the West today> the west back then

I am not underselling anything. The Jazz had first round exits when they had home court.

The Sonics fell apart after the finals appearance. The 97 Rockets were a good team, but they were old.

The Spurs had to go against the LAkers out west with Shaq and Kobe, and later Kobe. Spurs had to get through some strong Mavs teams and strong Phoenix teams.

The Spurs also have Duncan who is better than Malone. Spurs have a better a coach too.

Jazz were hella overrated.

I'm not comparing the Jazz to the Spurs circa 2007. From 99-2007, the Spurs were obviously better than the 96-98 Jazz. And the West was better during that run than it was in 96-98.

The original point was in comparing the 2012-2014 Spurs Finals teams to the 96-98 Jazz Finals teams. Those Jazz teams were better than these past two Spurs teams were. Duncan isn't even close to as good a player as Malone was during this span. Duncan is old and Malone was in his prime.

The point was about whether Jordan's Bulls teams faced better competition in the Finals than LeBron's Heat have. My point is that yes he did in that second threepeat, but that the difference was those Jordan Bulls teams were better than these LeBron Heat teams.

[DM72]

Chris Bosh is looking like a punk and a follower IMO. You mean to tell me that he's putting his and his families future on hold for LeBron James to make his decision? I would NEVER do something like that. Skip Bayless made a good point. He won 2 championships and he's not the one chasing Jordan. He should take a max deal and go to Houston.

Edited July 7, 2014 by DM72

[Sticksboi05]

The Heat don't have a guy even close to Rodman. A team like the Heat runs through the Swiss Cheese East and is expected to compete with a healthy rested Spurs team with home court also ? The Heat might has well have been swept. They were out-matched.

 

I stated in this thread that the Heat would lose in 5 or 6.

 

Would you take Malone over Duncan in any era ? I doubt it.

I could imagine the Jazz beating the Bulls if they had another real scoring threat, or another big that could actually pass the ball.

 

Uh, the Spurs were the ones who had to go through a grueling 7 game series vs. the Mavericks and another long 6 game series vs. OKC, somehow beating them in OKC without Tony Parker.  The Heat were rested from playing the cakewalk Eastern Conference.

 

If any team was more exhausted going into the Finals this year it was San Antonio.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[CrypticVillain]

I don't think Lebron is going back to Cleveland. He just needs to stay in Miami...

 

I feel sorry for the Cavs fan. Getting their hopes up for nothing.

[Going Commando]

That just goes to show you how rare that pair is.  Two 1st team NBA defensive players, both of which are at least good offensive players.

Yeah. And both perimeter players too. I'm trying to think of another time in post-merger NBA history where there were two first team all NBA defenders on a great defensive team that didn't have a dominant defensive true big man. You usually need that great big to seal the defense up behind your perimeter guys because stuff is going to get behind them if they're truly going all out defensively.

And then players that were also excellent offensive players.

I think it's won of the most unique builds of any title team in the post-merger era.

The only way I could see you replicating that today is if you got LeBron and Paul George on a team together.

But just from a defensive standpoint, I'm looking forward to seeing Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley play together from here on out. Those guys are brilliant perimeter defenders. I could see both of them making an All NBA defensive team together.

[CrypticVillain]

Chris Bosh is looking like a punk and a follower IMO. You mean to tell me that he's putting his and his families future on hold for LeBron James to make his decision? I would NEVER do something like that. Skip Bayless made a good point. He won 2 championships and he's not the one chasing Jordan. He should take a max deal and go to Houston.

This. I would have signed with Houston day one of free agency if I was Bosh. On top of that, I think he would be better with Houston than Miami anyway. 

[Sticksboi05]

which teams did Jordan "will" to victories? Like he didnt have a legendary coach and a HOF teammate. LOL

 

 

Other than the 2004 Pistons, every championship team has had at least two Hall of Fame players, so what, that's expected of any title team.

 

So in your agenda-ridden post, you are implying that any player that has had a great coach and a Hall of Famer on their team has never willed their team to victory.

[No Excuses]

I don't think Lebron is going back to Cleveland. He just needs to stay in Miami...

 

I feel sorry for the Cavs fan. Getting their hopes up for nothing.

 

I don't. Cleveland sports fans are obnoxious. In my entire life, I've met one sensible Cleveland sports fan, a guy I worked with. But even he said ridiculous things like "I would take Matt Schaub over RG3". Bunch of haters.

[Destino]

Chris Bosh is looking like a punk and a follower IMO. You mean to tell me that he's putting his and his families future on hold for LeBron James to make his decision? I would NEVER do something like that. Skip Bayless made a good point. He won 2 championships and he's not the one chasing Jordan. He should take a max deal and go to Houston.

 

There is certainly some truth to this. Especially when I think about how Lebron and Wade do the join press conferences and Bosh is always left looking like the odd man out.  He didn't get much respect in Miami and they basically turned him into a jump shooter because Lebron and Wade both wanted space to attach the rim.  He's got his rings, he should go somewhere he'll be free to play his game again and make the amount of money he deserves.  Why take a pay cut to play with Lebron anymore?  

[Sticksboi05]

I don't think Lebron is going back to Cleveland. He just needs to stay in Miami...

 

I feel sorry for the Cavs fan. Getting their hopes up for nothing.

 

Of course Dan Gilbert's crew took his scathing letter down.