Kosher Ham Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I felt really bad for those Bulls teams with him injured. I feel they missed a window of opportunity for something great. Not taking away from the Heat teams at all. As a fan of the game, I think it would have been Bulls/Heat every year in the Eastern conference finals from the 2010/11 season through the 2013/14 season, if Rose were 100%. Would have been some great/excellent basketball. Certainly. Rose is/was one of those players that completely changed the dynamic of the situation for other teams, offensively and defensively. Same as LeBron really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Absolutely man. Tough call. My thing is that competition now is tougher than it was then. I know you remember "Jordan Rules". He was the messiah sent to save the NBA from when Bird and Magic were done. Bullets fans would have hated Jordan if they actually watched all that he got away with. LOL, yeah. Ole Chuck Daly, gotta hand it to him with the Jordan Rules. Doubling down on him everywhere and slamming him when he came into the paint (Laimbeer and Rodman). Brutal until the Zen Master implemented the triangle offense and eventually made the Pistons his **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 why do i think predicto is cutting and pasting from somewhere? never would've thought predicto could wax historic nba like that. love ya man. lol I'm older than dirt. I watched those teams play. I had season tickets and had to root for starters like Uwe Blab, and Jim Peterson, and Clifford Rozier, and Todd Fuller, and Felton Spencer, and Tom Tolbert, and Victor Alexander, and Winston Garland. That's just on the Warriors, but every team in the NBA had a roster that was half terrible, and at least a couple of lousy starters. Now when teams suck it's usually because they are too young or are tanking. Back then it was because there was so little actual NBA-level talent to go around. LOL, yeah. Ole Chuck Daly, gotta hand it to him with the Jordan Rules. Doubling down on him everywhere and slamming him when he came into the paint (Laimbeer and Rodman). Brutal until the Zen Master implemented the triangle offense and eventually made the Pistons his **** Well, the Pistons also got old, pretty much all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) As for people who want to downplay Lebron's Finals competition, all i have to say is that if those "Old" Spurs were exactly that, they wouldn't have beaten everyone in the West, which while ridiculously good, gets raised up to the level of mythic folklore Theseus & the Minotaur type ****. But they play us and all of a sudden it's pass the Geritol so they can get down the court. Sure. The only guy who truly played old was Ginobli, who makes a crazy shot one minute, then acts like his dead pappy is waving at him to shoot the ball from halfcourt the next. The rest of them were an efficient machine. Our dead ass PG play then allowed Parker to turn back the clock 10 years. And Durant, Westbrook and Harden had nothing after one game. One. So maybe it was the coach. Or some mysterious supernatural force that kept them from winning another game. *Or the refs. Not Lebron's fault. Fact is few people on this planet can do what he did in the spring of 2012. Few. And none of them are currently playing. Edited May 26, 2015 by Mr. Sinister 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Sinister you know you can't win this one lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Sinister you know you can't win this one lol Did you read his post ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Sinister you know you can't win this one lol Well, Lebron already won, and left, so it doesn't matter. Not even sure why I'm defending him. I kind of hate him a little. Just don't understand the logic behind minimizing titles (which he won with the Heat), unless we're talking about the Dallas Cowboys Edited May 26, 2015 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Sinister you know you can't win this one lol Yep. Even though he's pretty much right. LeBron's place in the historical pantheon will not be acknowledged until well after he retires. Then people will gradually start saying: "you think that Joe Dumars III is such hot stuff? He's nothing to what LeBron James was. That man had no flaws!!!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Absolutely man. Tough call. My thing is that competition now is tougher than it was then. I know you remember "Jordan Rules". He was the messiah sent to save the NBA from when Bird and Magic were done. Bullets fans would have hated Jordan if they actually watched all that he got away with. The Jordan Rules were not some league mandate to give Jordan favorable officiating calls. It was the term coined for the defensice strategy the Pistons employed on Jordan. Essentially, beat the hell out of him all game, hard fouls, nothing easy, elbows in the ribs etc. He most certainly was the benefactor of preferable calls as the face of the league but that's something Lebron gets every bit as much as well. Edited May 26, 2015 by Momma There Goes That Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Well, Lebron already won, and left, so it doesn't matter. Not even sure why I'm defending him. I kind of hate him a little. Just don't understand the logic behind minimizing titles (which he won with the Heat), unless we're talking about the Dallas Cowboys Nobody should diminish his accomplishments/titles with the Heat. He lead a team to the finals 4 straight years, won two back to back. Heat were the best team in the NBA two years straight and #2 in those other two seasons. Spurs weren't out there on walkers or anything. And the Mavs weren't slouches either. As far as the NBA finals for the Heat, LeBron and Co. were money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 One thing I'll say about Jordan (while we're discussing him.... Again), is I find his post retirement accomplishments absurdly impressive, though he brought this child to tears in '97. As explosive as he was, to come back at an older age, facing a new age of freak athletes, and become more of a finesse guy, and dominate, is remarkable. Unguardable. Nothing you could do. Greatest jumper i've ever seen. Good outside shooter. tenacious defender. Could still beat you off the dribble and penetrate. Just nothing you could do. Wouldn't even be right to call it Old Man game. It looked too beautiful. Then add that experience and competitive fire. Man that was frustrating. And awesome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The Jordan Rules were not some league mandate to give Jordan favorable officiating calls. It was the term coined for the defensice strategy the Pistons employed on Jordan. Essentially, beat the hell out of him all game, hard fouls, nothing easy, elbows in the ribs etc. Well, sort of. That was part of it, but it was a bit more sophisticated than that. It also was about overplaying Jordan to make him work hard to even get the ball, forcing him to his left because he was better with his right hand, channeling him to certain spots on the floor where Laimbeer could double without giving up an easy look to anyone else on the Bulls, and so on. Chuck Daly was the first coach to use modern defensive principles that all NBA teams now take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Did you read his post ? Yeah and it's basically been saying the same thing I have all thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Nevermind Edited May 26, 2015 by Major Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It wasn't that the east wasn't good. It was that the Bulls just happened to have the best player on a good team. This is the NBA. The team with the best player usually wins. It's that simple. When Hakeem was the best, they won. I gotta say, this is really an interesting point that I'm curious to see how many other people feel the same way about. So I did a quick google search to see who won championships during the two seasons Jordan was out the NBA. Hello, Houston Rockets. I wonder what this debate would look like if Jordan hadn't been out the NBA those two seasons and serious possibility of him having 8 straight championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The East was okay if you liked ugly basketball. Any game involving the Knicks, Heat, or Pacers was largely unwatchable. Also a product of the rules and the way games were called. It's also why I always really enjoyed watching the Jazz play. Not that they didn't mug people too, but offensively they were fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 As for people who want to downplay Lebron's Finals competition, all i have to say is that if those "Old" Spurs were exactly that, they wouldn't have beaten everyone in the West, which while ridiculously good, gets raised up to the level of mythic folklore Theseus & the Minotaur type ****. But they play us and all of a sudden it's pass the Geritol so they can get down the court. Sure. The only guy who truly played old was Ginobli, who makes a crazy shot one minute, then acts like his dead pappy is waving at him to shoot the ball from halfcourt the next. The rest of them were an efficient machine. Our dead ass PG play then allowed Parker to turn back the clock 10 years. And Durant, Westbrook and Harden had nothing after one game. One. So maybe it was the coach. Or some mysterious supernatural force that kept them from winning another game. *Or the refs. Not Lebron's fault. Fact is few people on this planet can do what he did in the spring of 2012. Few. And none of them are currently playing. I don't think people are downplaying the Miami's finals wins. The point being made that if people are going to downgrade Jordan cause some of the teams were older (Lakers, Pistons, etc) than the same is true for the Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Hawks seem content to roll over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't think people are downplaying the Miami's finals wins. The point being made that if people are going to downgrade Jordan cause some of the teams were older (Lakers, Pistons, etc) than the same is true for the Spurs. Gotcha. Oh and btw, since we're talking again, sorry about all the stuff from last summer. Went full retard for a bit. And **** Cleveland Mozgov just brought the might of Mother Russia down on Millsap's head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Gotcha. Oh and btw, since we're talking again, sorry about all the stuff from last summer. Went full retard for a bit. And **** Cleveland Mozgov just brought the might of Mother Russia down on Millsap's head Dude, it's all good. I am a stay at home dad with a 7-month old so my brain is like oatmeal and I remember nothing. Plus, it's way too much fun here to stay annoyed with anyone. I always have a laugh how I can be arguing with one person in one thread and think "WTF is this person talking about" and switch threads only to be in complete agreement with what the same person and defend him. It's the beauty of this place. Whatever we were going back and forth about, sorry on my end too. All good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 From top to bottom, the NBA is almost certainly better today. Just really simply, they are pulling players from a larger population (i.e. essentially the whole world). The global expansion of the NBA has almost certainly made its basketball better too. Now, the East today might not be as strong as the East then. But top to bottom, it is almost certainly better. On another note, it is going to be big for the Heat to win tonight and have the off time before the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 ESPN lists both Millsap and Mozgov as weighing 250 pounds. That can't be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 From top to bottom, the NBA is almost certainly better today. Just really simply, they are pulling players from a larger population (i.e. essentially the whole world). The global expansion of the NBA has almost certainly made its basketball better too. Now, the East today might not be as strong as the East then. But top to bottom, it is almost certainly better. On another note, it is going to be big for the Heat to win tonight and have the off time before the finals. ... Strongly disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 RT @dsson Would the Wizards have beaten the Cavs? Maybe—probably—not. But they sure wouldn't have gotten swept either. #dcRising #NBAPlayoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 From top to bottom, the NBA is almost certainly better today. Just really simply, they are pulling players from a larger population (i.e. essentially the whole world). The global expansion of the NBA has almost certainly made its basketball better too. Now, the East today might not be as strong as the East then. But top to bottom, it is almost certainly better. That's a good point. Found this article from October that lists the 101 foreign players in the league. NBA Sets Record With 101 International Players From 37 Countries and Territories NEW YORK, Oct. 28, 2014 – The National Basketball Association (NBA) today announced that a record 101 international players from 37 countries and territories are on opening night rosters for the 2014-15 season, up from last year’s record of 92 international players. This marks the first time the NBA has more than 100 international players. The reigning NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs lead the league for the third consecutive season with nine international players. The Minnesota Timberwolves and Brooklyn Nets are second with six each; the Golden State Warriors have five; and the Atlanta Hawks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets, Milwaukee Bucks, New York Knicks, Phoenix Suns, Toronto Raptors and Utah Jazz each have four. Canada leads the way with a record 12 international players, including the number one overall pick in each of the last two NBA Drafts. France comes in second with 10 NBA players, while Australia and Brazil set new records for NBA participation with eight and seven players respectively. Spain rounds out the top five with five players. The number of international players in the league has more than doubled since 2000-01 (45 international players) and nearly quintupled since 1990-91 (21 international players). NBA games and programming are available in 215 countries and territories in 47 languages this season. 100 out of a possible 450 right? That's a significant percentage of the league and it certainly supports the argument that the size of the talent pool from which the NBA is selecting it's players has grown. I'm not sure anyone predicted how quickly the game would grow internationally. Looking at that list though they seem to be extremely precise on their definition of foreign players, Kyrie Irving is on there. He was born in Australia but he grew up in the US. Also Goran Dragic has a brother named Zoran? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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